Rent your MtG cards: Business idea, need feedback

[sQri]

Hi everyone,

I've come to a new business idea and would appreciate some feedback.

The idea is:
Rent your Magic the Gathering cards

For everyone who doesn't know about Magic, here is the Wikipedia link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering

Magic is a booming trading card game with a lot of tournaments around the world. In most tournaments, you need the so called "Deck", which you build at home with your own cards.

During my very active years, I've made a lot of money buying and sellings Magic cards, so I know a lot
about it.

My idea is basically to lend the cards someone who need them for a tournament, but doesn't want to buy them because they are too expensive. He has to keep the cards for a fixed amount of time and then return them. For that, he has to pay a fractions of the cards worths.

The plan is to build a stock of the most wanted cards and lend them via an internet shop.

The first problem I have is, how has the customer to pay?
I think its either pay the full price of the cards worth and after returning, get the money minus the costs or he has to pay the costs upfront.
There are some pros and contras for both methods.

Full price
If he need cards which are worth $400, its very hard for the customer to pay it upfront and get for example $350 after returning back. But if the cards are damaged or he doesn't return them, I have the money.

Costs upfront:
Its easier for the customer, but it could be complicated, if the cards are damaged.


I'm not quite sure, if there is a need for this business idea, but when I play tournaments, I often see people lending cards from friends.

Ideally, the site will be bought from leading traders.


Sorry for some terms and formulations, english is not my first language.

Thanks for some help

 

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[Mcslothin]

I think your first problem is not the first you should worry about. That's actually rather simple and you've already explained exactly how you'd get it accomplished. The biggest concern I see here is that renting cards isn't the same as renting camera lenses or cars. It's much easier to completely ruin a card than it is the two former.

 

[Blackadder]

Id say go for it, except it

1. would suck to try and get these insured

2. it would be small claims court every time someone bent, marked, scratched, lost, or ripped a card.

3. Is marking a card with a serial number legal (tournament wise?) ...

4. What happens when the prices change (I used to play Rage back in the day) and your card gets sold or traded off would your prices change depending on fluctuations in the markets (and won't that be a bugger to prove)


all in all, I think you are better off just selling cards.
EDIT: BUT IF you can solve these problems you may have a winner.

 

[csalvato]

I think this is a fantastic idea.

Have you spoken to anyone who plays in MtG torneys to see if they would be interested? How much would they be willing to pay?

All the other questions are just details after that.

 

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[smartman]

I think you could certainly provide this service at tournaments at things like gencon, where the cards are checked in and out over the weekend, with a credit card on file. I'm hesitant to say renting them through mail order is such a good idea though. The less in person business, the less honest people will be.

If you really know your stuff, you can always make your way as a MTG singles buyer at conventions. Seriously, there's plenty of vendors at those things that need educated and effective buyers. You'd be amazed how little things like good customer service, smiling or welcoming set ups will set you LIGHT YEARS apart from the competition in that market.

 

[ChrisJTurner]

I don't know much about this subject but would it not be possible to make an app and sell e-cards?

I might be completely off track here.
It's 6.46 am and I ain't had coffee yet

 

[sQri]

Thanks for the feedback!

I have postet this idea in a Mtg forum, the members had some concerns about it.
Mostly because of two points:

- what, if the customer doesn't send the cards back or they are in a bad condition

- why not buy the needed cards and sell them afterwards

I think, the idea is better in theory and would be working easier, if done at the tournaments itself.

 

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[smartman]

I worked heavily in this industry for nearly 5 years. I absolutely detest when people shoot down other poster's ideas, but I'm glad you came to this realization. I think you have something pretty hot with setting up at tournaments though.

You can't do much with an app because the MTG online game already exists, and wizards are not going to give up their license for anything that could hurt their gravy train. You can PM me if you need someone to bounce ideas off of. I would be happy to help.

I really, and honest to god thing that some enterprising MTG nerd out there could build a portfolio of simply investing in old cards or sealed boxes similar to a hedge fund. the day to day need for those items fluctuates so much. maybe this is the answer to the whole "if you had 100k, what would you do with it" thread. it is also 3:30am and I'm rambling.

 

[Blackadder]

I absolutely detest when people shoot down other poster's ideas,

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't shooting anyone down I was listing SOME of the problems that would be faced so that SQri could properly assess his options.

 

[smartman]

Yea dude I wasn't really pointing anyone out in this thread, just wanted to clarify where I was coming from. All good points you made

 

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[Silverhawk851]

(Watch at 3:38)

The cool thing about 2015 is that you can just launch and see if it works

Just do it and if people like it, figure it out.

 

[sQri]

Had a little conversation with @smartman.

I really like his idea of the MtG "Hedge Fund"

But now I have to read more about a Hedge Fund.

Can somebody recommend me a book?

@smartman said something of "The little book of Hedge Funds", is it good?

 

[teabag]

I don't know much about this subject but would it not be possible to make an app and sell e-cards?

I might be completely off track here.
It's 6.46 am and I ain't had coffee yet

lmao

OP - I don't think someone renting the card would want to pay full price as a bond for it. If you're going to structure this as a legit business, you may need to set up a contract with buyers for 'what happens if product is damaged or destroyed'.

Payment? You take credit card, bank deposit or cash.

However how do you deliver the cards? I'd assume a games shop would want a fee for conducting the transaction.

 

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[teabag]

Thanks for the feedback!

I have postet this idea in a Mtg forum, the members had some concerns about it.
Mostly because of two points:

- what, if the customer doesn't send the cards back or they are in a bad condition

- why not buy the needed cards and sell them afterwards

I think, the idea is better in theory and would be working easier, if done at the tournaments itself.

Instead of borrowing, why not have them pay it off? Like finance?

 

[ChrisJTurner]

Instead of borrowing, why not have them pay it off? Like finance?

I like that idea but I'm assuming in this game, there is some rare cards about, which can probably be irreplaceable.

Just imagine getting a non-payer and he goes bankrupt, nothing from the official receiver and no card.

I do like the concept though

 

[d.weglarz13]

I don't have any experience with Magic, but a lot of friends were always into it, just not my thing. But, how about you "rent" the cards out for like you say a fraction of the cost to buy them. The catch would be, if they damage the card or don't return it within a set time, you charge their bank accounts or paypal the full cost. Of course, you would have this in plain sight so everyone who uses the service will be weary of it, but due to human nature I would think most would rent them and plan to be careful with them, but isn't that how other companies make tons of money? I think you have something there, definitely. Just gotta tweak a bit more, just my $.02


dave

 

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[Julio Andres]

wow, great idea, I don't know if business-great-idea, but to me is a out-of-the-box idea that never pass my mind, using well know business models from other industries to other not related industry, props for that.

I say go for it! just try, you never know. But, I would suggest the following:

- Start very small, your city. With people you know, go to venues where they play.
- Start with a website and post actual pictures of the cards, and the price to rent: Super-amazing-deadly-phyrexian-chicken/US$5/day.
- For the payment I thing the safest system is the one from the car-rentals, just ask for the credit card info in your super secure website.
- Maybe you can make some transparent envelope for each rented card, you can place your brand and website on the back. It offers protection to the card, branding, and you even can add a serial number, without damaging the card.
- Assume some losts at the beginning, so don't start with extremly expensive cards.

good luck in your venture.

 

[sQri]

Well, thanks again for all your replies!

Now I'm confused!
Most of the people in the MtG forums told me this is a bad idea, while nearly everybody think, this is a good idea...

As written, I somewhat like the hedge fund idea, since there are a lot of cards in the game, which only gain in value.
But I have to figure out, how to do that, any opinions about that?

 

[csalvato]

Well, thanks again for all your replies!

Now I'm confused!
Most of the people in the MtG forums told me this is a bad idea, while nearly everybody think, this is a good idea...

As written, I somewhat like the hedge fund idea, since there are a lot of cards in the game, which only gain in value.
But I have to figure out, how to do that, any opinions about that?

Listen to your market not to us.

Have you tried to sell this to anyone who would buy it yet?

 

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[smartman]

I think tournament and convention rentals is where this business has the most potential. I think it is more important to find the people that would want the service, than the opinions of the people that don't. I can't imagine why someone who was gearing up to play in a tournament wouldn't want to rent for 10 bucks some sick a$$ card that blows up a bunch of dudes or whatever the hell happens in magic.

 

[sQri]

Listen to your market not to us.

Have you tried to sell this to anyone who would buy it yet?

Yeah, I guess you are right!

No, I haven't. For me, after hearing the concerns in the MtG forum, the idea was dead.

 

[Gale4rc]

• Small market / Low volume
• Hard to reach - Bad CAC for any type of ROI
• Market is not getting any bigger

 

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[sQri]

• Small market / Low volume
• Hard to reach - Bad CAC for any type of ROI
• Market is not getting any bigger

I disagree, the MtG market is getting bigger, as the game is still booming and the price of the expensive cards is still rising.

 

[pickeringmt]

I absolutely detest when people shoot down other poster's ideas,

Really? The best possible thing people can do for you is help you find weaknesses in your ideas. It helps you be more objective.

Now I'm confused!
Most of the people in the MtG forums told me this is a bad idea, while nearly everybody think, this is a good idea...

Probably because the MODEL makes sense. The bottom line is what the user wants.
One thing to keep in mind: isn't ownership of the cards a big part of the pleasure of this? That may be where the gap is between us and the player forums. You also need to consider if a rental would be appealing in the sense that players in tournaments are already going to have a higher level of investment into the game. Are you only renting several high value cards? If so, your initial investment would be hard to get back quickly - especially since you will have to own a large amount to be able to offer players all of the different types.

One thing you might consider - let players rent to eachother via a marketplace you own. Charge a very small fee for "brokering" the rental. Build a systematic process for players to rent and return cards to/from eachother and just broker the rental. This would be much more practical.

 

[jlwilliams]

I think it's great idea. IMO, there is no such thing as too niche. You are targeting a really focused market. Good thinking.

I think that maybe laminating your cards, maybe even with a watermark, could reduce the overall damage loss. I also think that insuring them for damage would be critical. If they lose or keep the card, they lose their deposit and that is straight forward. The big area where you are likely to run into problems is when some customer gets pizza grease all over your card and then plasters the internet with diatribes about how you charged him for damage that he says he didn't do or that you exaggerated and charged him what he says was too much. Even if he's full of crap, your reputation could well be smeared all to hell. Some of these guys have nothing better to do that wage forum war which you can only lose. If you can get an insurance company to pick up the tab for wear and tear it may be well worth the premiums.

 

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[Gale4rc]

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...general/327006-how-many-players-does-mtg-have

took 2 seconds of research

Your booming market has 400k players total who take themselves seriously enough to register for something (in which even a smaller subset of that is going to like your idea).

 

[sQri]

Really? The best possible thing people can do for you is help you find weaknesses in your ideas. It helps you be more objective.

Probably because the MODEL makes sense. The bottom line is what the user wants.
One thing to keep in mind: isn't ownership of the cards a big part of the pleasure of this? That may be where the gap is between us and the player forums. You also need to consider if a rental would be appealing in the sense that players in tournaments are already going to have a higher level of investment into the game. Are you only renting several high value cards? If so, your initial investment would be hard to get back quickly - especially since you will have to own a large amount to be able to offer players all of the different types.

One thing you might consider - let players rent to eachother via a marketplace you own. Charge a very small fee for "brokering" the rental. Build a systematic process for players to rent and return cards to/from eachother and just broker the rental. This would be much more practical.

Yeah, it's nice to have some of the expensive cards, but not everbody has the money to own them.

I think, I would start with some of the mid expensive cards, which are needed and played all the time.

Your idea of let players rent cards to each others is quite cool. But the players have to be sure, they are not getting cheated, which might be a problem.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...general/327006-how-many-players-does-mtg-have

took 2 seconds of research

Your booming market has 600k players total who take themselves seriously enough to register for something (in which even a smaller subset of that is going to like your idea).

You looked at the date of the thread, didn't you?
Do you any clue about Magic?

 

[Gale4rc]

You looked at the date of the thread, didn't you?
Do you any clue about Magic?

go for it then - do a simple landing page just to test how hard it's going to be to drive consistent traffic past the first announcement on reddit + forums. $100 you can't drive 1k hits/month which would still be complete shit in terms of revenue even if people did like your idea.

 

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[sQri]

go for it then - do a simple landing page just to test how hard it's going to be to drive consistent traffic past the first announcement on reddit + forums. $100 you can't drive 1k hits/month which would still be complete shit in terms of revenue even if people did like your idea.

You know what, I'm gonna do it. It might take a while, but whatever.

But not because of your childish bet!

If it works, I'm will go deeper, if not, I will kick the idea.

 

[Gale4rc]

You know what, I'm gonna do it. It might take a while, but whatever.

But not because of your childish bet!

If it works, I'm will go deeper, if not, I will kick the idea.

If you need help send me a PM - I'll make sure your site looks good