Pulling the trigger on Amazon FBA

[biophase]

Great to hear. I've been wondering about that.

So is the only reason to choose stickered is if you have a product without a UPC, correct? Besides that, stickerless is the way to go as long as I purchase a UPC and put it on my product? Do you still need a SKU?

If you go stickerless all of your products are commingled. If you are selling your own product, it's fine because nobody else has it to commingle with. All you need is a UPC on your product to go stickerless.

You would go stickered if you wanted your stuff separate. So if you are selling Iphones and you send 50 to Amazon with stickers, they would keep your 50 Iphone separate from another seller's Iphones.

If you go stickerless all 50 of your Iphones get mixed up with everyone elses Iphones. So if a customer gets a broken Iphone, you don't know if your phone was broken or if it was some other guy's phone.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I didn't know being on FBA meant sacrificing some control over pricing like that.

It doesn't.

I'm just asking, is it coincidence that they started selling TMF at full retail the moment I started using FBA? (I control FBA sales pricing to whatever I want, I don't control the sale pricing on Advantage which is Amazon's main program listing.)

First is that your book (or product) should be listed as a commingled product.

Are you talking about Amazon Advantage which publishers/manufacturers use? I'm not referring to Seller Central -- they are two different things.

Who decides what retail is on your book?

I decide the MSRP ... as for actual sales price?

Amazon Seller Central - ME (these are the secondary listings)
Amazon FBA - ME (these are the secondary listings)
Amazon Advantage - Amazon (this is the primary listing) <-- Amazon sells it at full MSRP)

 

[1step]

There are a few ways around your issues. First is that your book (or product) should be listed as a commingled product. Then your book will have a universal UPC code.

Media is not eligible for stickerless commingled. Also some products may not be eligible, for instance items with an expiration. Tools would be, supplements, not so much.

You can set up a massive shipment say for 1000 books. When Amazon breaks it into 3 shipments to 3 places, just ship to Phoenix and cancel the other 2 shipments. Then you have 300 books going to Phoenix. I don't know if you can do this forever because I think Amazon will catch on soon.

You can also just say the items are case packed which will make it only one shipment to one location.

That's interesting, MJ. I didn't know being on FBA meant sacrificing some control over pricing like that.

As a product seller I control all aspects of my price, I believe this is only an issue with books.

 

[1step]

However if amazon doesnt like your price they wont give you the buy box. Your only option will be for users to go with the "for sale by others" which has a veyr different look than the normal amazon page

 

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[CEBenz]

I decide the MSRP ... as for actual sales price?

Amazon Seller Central - ME (these are the secondary listings)
Amazon FBA - ME (these are the secondary listings)
Amazon Advantage - Amazon (this is the primary listing) <-- Amazon sells it at full MSRP)

I was just wondering if you could manipulate it some by changing the MSRP or if it would cause other issues. And how much it would impact the bottom line.

Ps, ordered the books.

 

[million$$$smile]

So this is some of the progress we've done so far. Understand that some of this process isn't just for FBA but is designed to establish our brand better at the same time so I threw the information in here also.

We needed barcodes for Amazon and through Vigilante's great thread on Addicted to Passive Income deposits, I learned about cheap-upc-barcode.com

We purchased 20 barcodes and it immediately allowed us to UPC/barcode each of our products, something our vendors/distributors hadn't yet asked us to do, but was needed for private brand growth.
Avery labels would work for most products but we needed a label that would work on lightly oiled tools (repels rust forming) and still stand up to scanning so I contacted what I felt was the best label printer mfg. in the marketplace. http://www.zebra.com/us/en.html. Why Zebra? They make all the label printers that shippers use for UPS labels for packages. We have never had a problem with their label printers in over ten years of using them. Contacted them and asked them what would be the best UPC/barcode printer for our needs and was recommended the TPL 2824 Plus printer Bought it today on Newegg.com for $250, savings of approx. $190 MSRP. As soon as we receive it, we'll barcode all of the items we are shipping to Amazon for FBA.

On a side note, one of the things we have been intending to do also, is to have some product pictures taken professionally for a brochure and flyer handouts. We contacted someone locally, took a look at their portfolio, and hired them on the spot for our product. Nothing like using decent images for websites, Amazon, and brochures. Very little cost involved getting professional pictures if one shops around.

Also decided to try BigCommerce.com for a new website for these products. Free 14 day trial, and they don't even ask for a credit card!
Will let ya'll know how it works... One of the important criteria was to have ability to have different group login discounts depending on how much volume they buy. I was assured after talking to them this will work on this platform.

As soon as we ship the products we will let you know some of the costs due to a rather heavy weight of some of our items using Amazons labels.

Making progress, but can't wait to see cha-ching of sales...

Disclaimer: No affiliate marketing on links in this post...

More to come later when we ship...
Sorry for the long post.

Randall

 

[CEBenz]

So this is some of the progress we've done so far. Understand that some of this process isn't just for FBA.........

Randall

Great post! Way to take action! At some point I'm going to have to find out more about your tools.

So, I may have missed it, but does Amazon charge $10 per product for receiving or per shipment? I'm unclear on this.

 

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[million$$$smile]

So, I may have missed it, but does Amazon charge $10 per product for receiving or per shipment? I'm unclear on this.

I'm not finding anyplace on their website where they charge $10 per shipment or product. I've read through completely and unless I missed something....

Here is a link to non media fees:
Amazon.com Help: Fulfillment Fees for Orders on Amazon.com

Randall

 

[Vigilante]

Amazon doesn't charge anything for receiving, and they have a flat fee schedule for shipping.

I pay a few bucks total for shipping including shipping/handling. Also, keep in mind FBA includes Amazon handling all aspects of customer service, customer correspondence, deletes negative reviews regarding FBA, and handles returns management and resale of non-defective return items.

 

[million$$$smile]

Vig, thanks for clarifying. I was beginning to wonder if I missed something...

 

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[CEBenz]

I'm not finding anyplace on their website where they charge $10 per shipment or product. I've read through completely and unless I missed something....

Here is a link to non media fees:
Amazon.com Help: Fulfillment Fees for Orders on Amazon.com

Randall

Just thought I read that in this thread somewhere and was confused.

 

[CEBenz]

Vig, another thank you for clarifying! You rock!

 

[million$$$smile]

Well, its been just over a month since I decided to try FBA. What a month its been...

Amazon requires UPC codes on each product and as it was our own brand, we needed 20 UPC numbers and also a UPC labeler to affix labels. Purchased online the UPC codes and downloaded the numbers for the products....

Contacted Zebra Technologies as they have some of the best labelers on the market. Have used them for years for UPS and USPS labels.
I was told because we will be affixing the labels on tools that are lightly oiled to inhibit rust, we needed a TPL 2824 model. Now you'd think this would be easy but it was everything but....
We ordered it 3 different times from 3 different reputable dealers before we FINALLY got the correct labeler on the 4th time!!!! Each time it was nearly a week of waiting till a new one came in. Major, major time suck.
Finally labeled all the products we were shipping (80 items for first shipment) and packed them up to ship.

Amazon requires all items to be in your inventory system with ALL data, ie descriptions, weights, keywords, images etc prior to shipping the items so if anyone decides to use FBA, plan on spending time entering the info prior to preparing for shipment.

Back to packaging: After we were ready to input combined shipping packages (2 boxes to ship), we found out that Amazon tells us how to break down the individual items to be shipped to MULTIPLE warehouses. Again, something not planned or expected. They wanted us to ship to 4 different warehouses so we divided up the product as they specified and repacked.
Shipped all packages Monday and first one arrived today at a warehouse with three more still in transit.

Initially, this Amazon endeavor was a major time consumer for our already busy schedule, due to our own branded products being set up from scratch. Now, the next shipments will be a piece of cake as all info is already populated.

We expect to see sales in the next week as soon as Amazon inventories the products in the warehouses.
Will keep you updated on sales.

One thing I noticed, the busier one is- the less time one can spend on the forum

Randall

I do not receive any compensation for mentioning any brands in this post...

 

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[biophase]

Back to packaging: After we were ready to input combined shipping packages (2 boxes to ship), we found out that Amazon tells us how to break down the individual items to be shipped to MULTIPLE warehouses. Again, something not planned or expected. They wanted us to ship to 4 different warehouses so we divided up the product as they specified and repacked.
Shipped all packages Monday and first one arrived today at a warehouse with three more still in transit.

You can tell them your stuff is packaged in box quantities so you don't have to break out the stuff. You should give me a call or email if you run into issues. Did you do your tools as stickerless in the UPC code sense. You didn't need to put a new label on each tool for each shipment that went to a different warehouse right?

 

[million$$$smile]

Did you do your tools as stickerless in the UPC code sense.

We affixed labels on each tool as the tools were not packed in individual boxes. We packed all of them together with wrapping.
Due to the fact that some of the tools are 'pointed' (not sharp) I had ordered a similiar tool from Amazon ahead of time to see how they shipped it. All they did was wrap it in bubble wrap and boxed it, so I felt we could do the same only not in individual boxes.
Do you think this won't work?
Appreciate the feedback...

 

[biophase]

We affixed labels on each tool as the tools were not packed in individual boxes. We packed all of them together with wrapping.
Due to the fact that some of the tools are 'pointed' (not sharp) I had ordered a similiar tool from Amazon ahead of time to see how they shipped it. All they did was wrap it in bubble wrap and boxed it, so I felt we could do the same only not in individual boxes.
Do you think this won't work?
Appreciate the feedback...

Yes, I understand that you put stickers on the tools themselves, but did you have to re-sticker them because you found out they were going to different warehouses? I hope not.

Without knowing exactly which tools and their size. This is how I would do it.

I would label each tool with a UPC code sticker. Wrap each one up in bubblewrap. Stick ten of them into a decent size box. Label that box tool #1. Label the next one tool #2. I would do the same for every tool you are sending to Amazon. Let's assume you are sending 100 pcs of each tool and you have 10 tools. You now have 100 boxes of qty. 10 labeled and ready to go.

Now you go to Amazon's shipment page and you state that each tool comes in a box of 10. You enter it all into Amazon and it makes you send to 3 different warehouses. But now you are sending tools in lots of 10.

Now you take whatever combo you need in boxes and put them into a couple big boxes and send them on their way using Amazon's UPS account number (which you pay for).

 

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[Shakeandbake]

Hey guys,

Can you comment on the branding issue of selling on Amazon?

When posting your items on Amazon (if it's branded), it takes away the brand image of the product you are selling. Everyone remembers that they bought the product on Amazon and not your website.

Here's a great article on what I'm referring to:
Why we abandoned Amazon and eBay | Practical eCommerce

Of course there are pro/cons of using Amazon, but just wanted to see what you FBA veterans think.

This may not be crucial for products like MJs TMF book, but let's say if you were selling a product with a unique design (let's say an up and coming clothing brand). When I think clothing brands, most of them have a great e-commerce site and I'll remember the website name and place an order on there.

But for more generic items that haven't really focused on the branding, I would say Amazon is great way to increase sales (especially for those Alibaba type products).

Thoughts?

 

[biophase]

Hey guys,

Can you comment on the branding issue of selling on Amazon?

When posting your items on Amazon (if it's branded), it takes away the brand image of the product you are selling. Everyone remembers that they bought the product on Amazon and not your website.

Here's a great article on what I'm referring to:
Why we abandoned Amazon and eBay | Practical eCommerce

That's a poor article on that site. He talks about Amazon and Ebay possibly one day not listing your sites and not to rely on these channels, but he's basically putting all his eggs into his ecommerce cart basket. You need multiple sales channels. Google could kill his ecommerce site also.

I don't know what you mean about Amazon taking away the brand image. The item brand name is listed on the listing.

 

[Shakeandbake]

That's a poor article on that site. He talks about Amazon and Ebay possibly one day not listing your sites and not to rely on these channels, but he's basically putting all his eggs into his ecommerce cart basket. You need multiple sales channels. Google could kill his ecommerce site also.

I don't know what you mean about Amazon taking away the brand image. The item brand name is listed on the listing.

Sorry I should have been more specific, branding in terms of website branding of your product.

With Amazon, people will remember Amazon for XYZ product so buy it on Amazon. As a user of Amazon, I find this to be true because if someone asks me where I got the XYZ product, I would say Amazon. Not go buy it on XYZ.com.

imo, if it was a product that had a very unique design to it and the company was looking to create a brand image, I don't think Amazon would be the right tool for the selling of said product. That's just my perception of course, which can be completely wrong.

Example: I am looking to create a new type of shoe design. The brand of the shoe would be of utmost importance, which I think the website presence would be very important to educate potential customers of value proposition by videos, images, etc etc.

 

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[biophase]

Sorry I should have been more specific, branding in terms of website branding of your product.

With Amazon, people will remember Amazon for XYZ product so buy it on Amazon. As a user of Amazon, I find this to be true because if someone asks me where I got the XYZ product, I would say Amazon. Not go buy it on XYZ.com.

imo, if it was a product that had a very unique design to it and the company was looking to create a brand image, I don't think Amazon would be the right tool for the selling of said product. That's just my perception of course, which can be completely wrong.

Example: I am looking to create a new type of shoe design. The brand of the shoe would be of utmost importance, which I think the website presence would be very important to educate potential customers of value proposition by videos, images, etc etc.

I don't understand your argument. If you are Nike and you sell shoes, Amazon would be selling Nike shoes. Nobody is going to think they bought Amazon.com shoes. Amazon is being used just like Nike uses Footlocker and Sports Authority and Zappos. I don't care where they buy my shoes as long as they buy them.

 

[Vigilante]

There was a time when Best Buy thought that Best Buy was the brand. They drank their own kool-aid. They don't think that any more.

Amazon is simply the delivery vehicle. Amazon enhances brands, not detracts from them. Conversely, if you are NOT on Amazon, one needs to wonder why.

 

[CEBenz]

Sorry I should have been more specific, branding in terms of website branding of your product.

With Amazon, people will remember Amazon for XYZ product so buy it on Amazon. As a user of Amazon, I find this to be true because if someone asks me where I got the XYZ product, I would say Amazon. Not go buy it on XYZ.com.

imo, if it was a product that had a very unique design to it and the company was looking to create a brand image, I don't think Amazon would be the right tool for the selling of said product. That's just my perception of course, which can be completely wrong.

Example: I am looking to create a new type of shoe design. The brand of the shoe would be of utmost importance, which I think the website presence would be very important to educate potential customers of value proposition by videos, images, etc etc.

I think I understand where you are going wrong in this discussion. You seem to be approaching this like Amazon is a mall and you have a store in that mall in addition to your standalone store. Your concern is traffic would just go to the mall that is Amazon rather than come to your standalone store (website).

What Biophase and Vig are advocating is not so much being a store with an outlet in the mall but being a brand that sells through a store in that mall. Basically the difference between building your own brand and building a retailer that sells other people's brands.

 

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[Shakeandbake]

I don't understand your argument. If you are Nike and you sell shoes, Amazon would be selling Nike shoes. Nobody is going to think they bought Amazon.com shoes. Amazon is being used just like Nike uses Footlocker and Sports Authority and Zappos. I don't care where they buy my shoes as long as they buy them.

Firstly, I don't intend this to be an argument. Just a point I'm trying to raise

Secondly, your example of Nike does not fit into a "start up" shoe company as my example. They have created their brand and everyone knows Nike. A start up company has no reputation and targeting Amazon/Ebay does not provide a clear branding image IMO.

It's just like aftermarket car parts that show up on Ebay. They have a "brand", but everyone resorts to "Ebay turbos" or "Ebay exhaust". No mention of said company name. Ebay of course has that stigma to it as being "cheap". That's what my point is.

With a start up company that needs to create it's own brand from scratch, I believe Amazon takes that away and limits the branding available.

 

[Shakeandbake]

I think I understand where you are going wrong in this discussion. You seem to be approaching this like Amazon is a mall and you have a store in that mall in addition to your standalone store. Your concern is traffic would just go to the mall that is Amazon rather than come to your standalone store (website).

What Biophase and Vig are advocating is not so much being a store with an outlet in the mall but being a brand that sells through a store in that mall. Basically the difference between building your own brand and building a retailer that sells other people's brands.

I agree they are a great delivery vehicle of said product, but I don't think going straight to amazon without building the brand may be the best way to go. I truly believe it is very product dependent. If your product can sell without a "branding" amazon is great. If your product needs a brand to sell itself, Amazon may not be the best way to go - Initially.

Of course, just my opinion

 

[TK1]

That's a poor article on that site. He talks about Amazon and Ebay possibly one day not listing your sites and not to rely on these channels, but he's basically putting all his eggs into his ecommerce cart basket. You need multiple sales channels. Google could kill his ecommerce site also.

I don't know what you mean about Amazon taking away the brand image. The item brand name is listed on the listing.

amen...

it's not which sales channel you use, but how many (and when starting your business start with those channels that can have the biggest leverage to your sales)

 

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[LightHouse]

Firstly, I don't intend this to be an argument. Just a point I'm trying to raise

Secondly, your example of Nike does not fit into a "start up" shoe company as my example. They have created their brand and everyone knows Nike. A start up company has no reputation and targeting Amazon/Ebay does not provide a clear branding image IMO.

It's just like aftermarket car parts that show up on Ebay. They have a "brand", but everyone resorts to "Ebay turbos" or "Ebay exhaust". No mention of said company name. Ebay of course has that stigma to it as being "cheap". That's what my point is.

With a start up company that needs to create it's own brand from scratch, I believe Amazon takes that away and limits the branding available.

Right but you are missing the step where if the product is well made and useful, and VALUABLE to the customer, they will look for your brand. Sure they will go to amazon where they bought it first, but if it isn't there, they will look elsewhere. It's one thing if you make dispensable or commodity products, like AA batteries. But for Randalls sake, he has his own line of niche tools for iron workers, someone that bought on amazon, but can't find them in the future, will look elsewhere if they like his tools.

Now the key here is that if Randall has an excellent brand and tool, amazon will WANT to carry it at some point, because it puts money in their pockets. Same with every major retailer. SO the point is to get your product in front of your buyers at every turn possible. That is in fact, how you build the brand in the first place!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

With a start up company that needs to create it's own brand from scratch, I believe Amazon takes that away and limits the branding available.

Totally inaccurate.

You're confusing a distribution channel with a manufacturer. Manufacturer's and creators use Amazon for distribution. TMF uses it. I also use iBooks (Apple) and B&N (Nook.) These are all channels to get your brand out there.

 

[TK1]

lol...

all this

"oh evil ebay, so many fees and will they steal my business?"

"oh evil amazon, i read on blogs they will steal my business, too"

"oh evil investors, i can't tell you my biz idea, you will steal it..."

"oh evil competition, they copy me and beat me on pricing...please let me survive in this market"

unless your biz makes MINIMUM 1 million in profit per year there is only one enemy you have:

YOU

 

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[biophase]

Firstly, I don't intend this to be an argument. Just a point I'm trying to raise

Secondly, your example of Nike does not fit into a "start up" shoe company as my example. They have created their brand and everyone knows Nike. A start up company has no reputation and targeting Amazon/Ebay does not provide a clear branding image IMO.

It's just like aftermarket car parts that show up on Ebay. They have a "brand", but everyone resorts to "Ebay turbos" or "Ebay exhaust". No mention of said company name. Ebay of course has that stigma to it as being "cheap". That's what my point is.

With a start up company that needs to create it's own brand from scratch, I believe Amazon takes that away and limits the branding available.

I didn't mean argument in a sense that we are arguing. I meant it in a debating way.

In your example, when Nike was starting up did they open up Nike stores? No, they were sold in Footlocker and Sportsmart.

If I am selling a turbo on ebay and brand it Biophase Twin Turbo BP+++, people will know the brand. It would be my fault if I just listed it as Twin Turbo and people just told their friends, I got a turbo on ebay.

If you created a company from scratch and don't want to use outside sales channels? How are you going to sell it? Just open up your own Ecommerce store? If Walmart or Target come calling, are you going to turn them down? You would be doing your brand and business a seriously disservice.

 

[youronlinestuff]

i think FBA also handle returns so that would add value to your business if you can offer really good customer support where people can return stuff hassle free...