Project... product perfection. My journal:

[PEBBLE]

Hi guys, relatively new to the forum, just read the book which I think was amazing, thanks MJ!

I made this post in a different part of the forum:

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/innovation-idea-step-1.55655/ (ignore the troll)

But just realised this is a better section for this category.

Ok, back to business, I have a list of ideas but my main project that will solve some problems in a medium popular recreational market also the military/police industry.

There are existing products out there that I think are heavily flawed. I want to perfect it and i think if I can turn my idea into reality, it would sell like hot cakes and potentially change the way the game is played in that recreational environment.

This product is pretty small and quite expensive. So really keen to beat people to it because I’m sure other people might be thinking of the same idea. If I was to compare it to something,say the TV just had been newly invented, then my idea would be like inventing a TV but with a remote control, which was pretty handy upgrade to get back in the day as you know.

I have never thought about inventing a new product before and god knows where to start?
common sense would be that step 1 is to find an engineer/inventor, he/she would have to make a prototype, play and cut around with metal work and merge it with some electronics, this is the most important step. Perhaps do some 3D printing to cut costs and then make the metal version after things are finalised. I think I could sell these at £200 per unit and the cost maybe up to £50.

I understand, that pitching the idea to a potential idea investor would not be a good idea. Like MJ says, investors want prototype proactive executioners so I need a prototype, I need the thing in my hands.

I am guessing it would be quite expensive and my life savings could be at risk if the engineer does not succeed at making my product with my unique selling points.

I am soaking up the forum like a sponge and getting all the info as much as i can, but figured i would make a thread and gather a discussion of what to do, perhaps get linked to the best content...

This project is quite scalable and distribution shouldn’t be a problem. Like I said, it is a small item so I would only need space for a pallet or 2 so no need on wasting money on warehouse rent.

Please feel free to give me any constructive criticism as possible. I need to do this. i will regret not trying. I am currently in the slow lane and this could be my big ticket to freedom!

Thanks in advance.

Phil from Manchester- UK

 

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[PEBBLE]

This is my step by step plan from my limited experience. This was compiled due to common sense, feel free to add any more steps or any constructive feedback:

• Step 1 - Find and inventor/engineer. Completed
• Step 2 - Make a 3D print prototype and get a feel for it. (PENDING)
• Step 3 - Make real prototype. (PENDING)
• Step 4 - Test the crap out of it. Find flaws, ask friends on their honest opinions. (PENDING)
• Step 5 - Make a website with the product available to pre-order (give a discount for pre-orders) (PENDING)
• Step 6 - Marketing- Make a video of the product, post on forums/blogs and Facebook groups/pages and prepare the industry for what is coming for the future. (PENDING)
  
• Step 7 - Work the numbers and see if you can afford the demand. If not, find an investor and show them the pre-order data. Sales with clear profit is what the investor needs to see. (PENDING)
• Step 8 - Try to make a few dozen, give some samples away to friends and people with popular youtube channels/blogs involved in the industry and see if they are happy with it. This will increase pre orders due to their reviews and receive valuable feedback. (PENDING)
• Step 9 - Make last minute adjustments and make a bulk order from the supplier. Get it sent to my residence. Don't waste money on a warehouse. (PENDING)
• Step 10 - Quality control, test more and make sure I am happy with the final product with packaging too. (PENDING)
• Step 11 - Get a good deal with a local courier, price bid them against each other and pick the best deal. (PENDING)
• Step 12 - Full steam ahead. Sell sell sell! do the work yourself at 1st. (PENDING)
• Step 13 - Automation, find someone who will do it for me which free me up. (PENDING)
• Step 14 - Quit my full time job. (PENDING)

 

[PEBBLE]

Update

My engineer has designed the CAD file and I can see my product from multiple angles, multiple options, such as an opaque version, then a transparent version that you can see the internals inside, and then a broken down version with the parts spit apart. I can zoom around the file on all angles, feels great to seeing something develop even if it is only at the digital stage.

I have read the Lori Greiner book on developing your own product, I recommend it! I know exactly what to do, I need to look more into patents because you have 2 types of patents:
- Utility patent (the way the product is designed, you have to make it function different, having this patent protects your product the most)
- Design patent (the way the product looks, you have to make it look different, this protects you the least because a slight different look bypass existing patents)

Feel free to point me to some things patent related if you anything.

Thanks for reading.

 

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[Mamadoo]

I would admit that my concentration has been lacking in this matter. Let me make this upto you. The conference finished up on Thursday for me. I will fly back atleast give you all the information for prototype development on your own.

That sounds like he doesnt want to work on your project anymore, so dump him

 

[PEBBLE]

Still on this.

On my birthday, my new engineer send me a sketch of the product. It looks great and a lot smaller than I thought it was going to look. Really happy with the progress.

He predicts May will be the finished prototype.

I am looking into how to market this thing, I am not sure whether to make a teaser trailer of the product and then launch the video with a full breakdown. Or maybe I should just make one video of the full breakdown.

Any suggestions.

Thanks

 

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[stormjb1]

"Why do we fall Bruce? So we can learn to pick ourselves up". This quote seems fitting.

New engineers sounds good. I too have had bad experiences with foreign freelancers but that's just part of the process of finding a good one.

Keep on chugging brother and keep us updated. You'll do great.

 

[PEBBLE]

Thanks guys

After some persistence and a few friendly threats, I got 50% of my money back.

However, the work produced is pretty much useless so my time has been raped. If I would of just met my current engineer at the start I would have a prototype by now.

Lesson learnt though. If I wasn't frustrated with my 1st engineer I probably wouldn't of found my current one which I am very happy with.

Whilst this is a slow process. I am very much interested in the licensing model and working on a few ideas in the mean time. But don't get me wrong. I'm not shiny object chasing. I am just trying to keep busy and focused on my finance goal. Licensing isn't as hands on as developing a product so it suits me nicely at the moment.

I can't wait till May though.

 

[LibertyForMe]

Maybe that guy lost 10k on his last invention, and someone beat him to the market and he lost it all.

Maybe he wanted to give up, because he was so pissed.

But maybe, he picked himself up, used his 10k education to his advantage, didn't make the same mistakes twice, and made a kick a$$ product.

Be that guy. Kill it with whatever you do next, and be the guy that makes all the other people get pissed.

 

[gostorm21]

Hey man welcome and respect to you for taking action so quickly!

I had a similar problem when I hired on freelancer ($25/hour) but I found that if you just ask them what their estimated time to complete the project is it helps ease the tension you may be feeling! If you're scared he will replicate your concept for himself when you describe it before officially "hiring" him, head to rocketlawyer and get a free NDA drafted. Then have him sign it in whatever way you see fit (print and sign/scan, etc.). Problem solved!

Best of luck to you...I'll be watching with interest!

 

[PEBBLE]

UPDATE

I am pleased to announced that Step 1 has been completed. (please scroll back up to see the green writing)

There will be 3 people working on this project for me in exchange for about £600 which is way under what I expected to pay. This is much less risky for me so that is superb news, I just hope they are not total amateurs but £600 is not a huge loss if they turn out to be rubbish. He has set out some milestones and predicts a prototype can be finished by mid November, he will be keeping me in the loop with pics and Skype chats.

There might be more delays, complications along the way so I expect to pay a little more but I that is how the cookie crumbles, I am really enjoying the process, it feels like when you decide to get back in the gym and you go nuts at it. (but without the whole quitting and paying the rest of the year subscription lol)

I can't tell you how excited I am right now. It is constantly on my mind all day.

 

[PEBBLE]

Good news, the engineer found a way around the issue i mentioned. So it is back to the plan!

Still in the computer CAD stage, some little changes here and there for the product, but very interesting to see the cyber blueprints to my empire.

 

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[axiom]

Hey man, have you thought of working out a deal with the UK manufacturer you mentioned in your original thread?

If the manu only sells in the UK, odds are they could stand to make a lot more money in the US (assuming you live in the US), provided they have a good distributor. You could contact them, tell them about your business, and offer to sell the product in the States under your own label. It would be win-win in that you could sidestep the whole engineering thing and they would expand to a much bigger market.

It would streamline the process greatly and reduce your upfront costs. Eventually once you gain traction, you could work out a sole distribution agreement, giving you security in the market.

 

[The Autobahn]

Your experience with the first Engineer, reminds me to my own personal experience with some Freelancers.
Some times they have a different mentality, they want to get instructed and just want to work for hours.

 

[PEBBLE]

Some new products are sprinkling into the industry. I researched it and then seeing more discussions on it suddenly opened up other more new competitors that I missed out. I need to check the discussions regularly. When I started this project there were 2 competitors. Now there is about 5.

My initial thought was dread and worry. I even considered pulling the plug on it all. Some products are pretty good and decent priced. It seems that they are having a price war and the products are getting cheaper and cheaper

But, I still think my idea is very much superior and I don't think I should give a shit about what the other guys are doing (or is this naive?)

My engineer has been really busy lately and is now 2 weeks behind schedule. But I still believe in him.

I just worry that my initial estimation of retail price will be 3x as much as the other competitive products is now forcing me to lower my margins to be in with some leverage. I will still be the most expensive because my product is simply more advanced and deserves it. (If it is to be made)

These new products also have patents and pending ones that I need to get around. My engineer says my idea is very different so we should be good. I will be defo filing a provisional patent when I make this product though.

I have done some company finances check ups and their profit it pretty low which concerns me. But they are not a one man like me so therefore I don't have to share any profit and equity and I have no doubt they make a bunch of cash deals with their product.

P.s. The new product that has been released, they mentioned that had a few threats from competitors saying that they were gonna stage an "accident" to mess their reputation up and get the product banned/illegal to use. This is a worry that I need to be prepared for. My product needs to be idiot proof safe otherwise I could get myself into trouble or even prison if I'm not careful.

Another thing to add, my competitors ALL suck at marketing and have bad quality websites, videos that look like they have been made on windows movie maker. This will be something I will also be superior with. However, I am considering hiding behind the camera. I would like to keep this a mystery especially since my boss at my current full time job will probably be a customer. I just hope being faceless Doesnt convey that I am a Chinese low quality cheap product type of dealio so maybe I need to bite the bullet since people trust faces.

 

[PEBBLE]

Step 1 - find an inventor/engineer


Ok today, I made a job proposal on Elance.com. I kept my idea a little vague since i don't want to tell unqualified people my whole idea.

For the most part, i want to talk to some people and get a feel for their competency. I got a few people to respond but mostly countries like India. His grammar was quite poor too so all Red flags at the moment, still messaged him though, they might have some interesting ideas that I haven't thought of yet.

Please feel free to point me to some referral engineers that can help me.

Thanks for reading.

 

[PEBBLE]

I am in a good conversation with a fella on Elance:

https://www.elance.com/s/saadabdulrehman/

Seems like a very smart chap, good feedback etc -- his reply was very informative and it seems like he is on the same page and knows EXACTLY what I want. It scares me that I already trust him and can already visualise working with him. Maybe I am rushing this part...

His hourly rate is $20 - which is alarming, I have no idea how fast he can deliver a prototype, so I am at the mercy of the time and quality of his work. If it takes 100 hours then that is £2000 just for one prototype that may or might not work, My life savings are about £15,000 right now. So I am hoping to have some left over for the big order. (investor free)

I will speak to him for a while and perhaps figure out a set price instead of doing the hourly price stuff. This is a very scary part of process, I really don't want to blow my life savings on something that may not work, but I guess risk is all part of business.

 

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[RoadTrip]

Not sure what the best book is but I believe Invent It, Sell It, Bank It from Lori Greiner is a pretty popular book on product development.

Nice thread btw, will be following this for sure

 

[Entrepreneur99]

Very interesting and informative thread, Looking forward to see how it pans out!

 

[stormjb1]

Great thread. looking forward to seeing you progress.

Question: have you walked into any roadblocks yet?

 

[PEBBLE]

Update

The engineer has been on a little vacation, I am very patient and this week he has produced more CAD designs on the electrical components part of the product. I have a lot of cool data and digital designs, but nothing materialistic just yet but a physical prototype should be in the making soon.



The electronics have to be shock proof so therefore it will cost a lot more than standard circuitry. The margins will be ridiculously high so I think investing into quality components would be very wise.

 

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[Mr.B]

Then have him sign it in whatever way you see fit (print and sign/scan, etc.).

In the future if you or others need to get stuff signed, EchoSign is free if you only need the occasional signature and makes the whole process very easy for all involved. I used to hate printing, signing and scanning documents.

@PEBBLE, exciting stuff! It seems like you've really hit the ground running. Keep it up, I can't wait to see what you've created when you are ready to share.

 

[PEBBLE]

My engineer has suddenly stopped responding, this is getting me worried.

 

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[PEBBLE]

FML -My engineer has slacked off and a month went by where I was still waiting on him to respond, I sent him another message that I might have to take action which prompted this reply from him:

Hi Phillip,

I am sorry that I am non responsive. I was asked to take part in World Future Energy Summit, 2015 in Abu Dhabi. It was the opening ceremony yesterday. I just saw all your messages. Please do not freak out on me my friend. As you know the deliverable is already in the dropbox and the link was shared. You are covered.

As for the vendors, I am just as frustrated as you are. Just a little better at hiding it. The truth is that when you are talking about a prototype development, good vendors just run away. I have a few vendors roped in who can do this in good quality on the mechanical side. But with the PCB side, I have no such good vendors. At the moment, the lowest quotation I have for the PCB is $500 which I consider to be very high (and this is a chinese company).

I would admit that my concentration has been lacking in this matter. Let me make this upto you. The conference finished up on Thursday for me. I will fly back atleast give you all the information for prototype development on your own.

Regards,
Saad


I have to be honest, this has severed my partnership with him and I wonder what to do. my problem is that I am being too nice and makes me want to keep him on, but the biz side of me wants to say, ' I paid you to make a prototype! - if you can not do that then you should not of accepted the job in the 1st place, I want my money back, waste somebody else's time, you could of told me you were going on a vacation for a month"

Anyone know what to do? This is on Elance by the way, despite the hours of design he has done for me and that I paid him for, I hope that I can claim my money back and find a more competent engineer who has access to these vendors.

Any body have any input?

 

[PEBBLE]

My response:

Hi Saad, thanks for finally responding.

I have to be honest, your behaviour recently has made me very hesitant right now whether or not we should continue our partnership.

Let me explain, if I was the engineer and I was going on vacation for a while, I would make sure you tell my partners this information. I messaged you on your cell phone too, you could of easily replied on that but you ignored me.

This job was to make a PHYSICAL prototype, it seems that you're very good at the design stage, but inexperienced at the physical side of things, I understand you that there is not much you can do if the vendor does not answer your requests but you accepted my job offer which was to make a prototype, i just figured you would have existing relationships with these vendors.

If you told me: 'Phil, I can design this for you, but you may need to to find someone else for the prototype stage, then I will not of rewarded you with the job' (I had so many engineers that said they are partners with vendors and shouldn't be a problem and I still chose you)

I feel very sad and a lot of my time seems stolen. I am not sure what to do with you.

Saad, can you make me a physical prototype for me, yes or no?

It is either you persevere with the vendors or I get my money back and find someone who will. Sorry.

I want to keep you Saad, i want you to pay you, but I hope you understand my points. i don't want any of us both to waste our valuable time (and money) here. But you kept me in the dark for weeks and weeks!

Phil.

 

[Digamma]

Your mail exchanges sound like Victorian love letters.
He seems to have his heart in the right place, just lacking the assertiveness to speak clearly. If you want to keep him, make it clear that you don't want any F*cking sweet talk, but facts. Can he do the job? Is there a problem that's F*cking things up? Tell me in one F*cking line, don't write me a romance novel.

 

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[BlueAtom]

My father is a electronics engineer, by hobby anyway. I've seen him build some pretty cool things, he taught me how to make printed circuit boards and things about plastic molding. I mess around with Arduino mainly. Not that we know anything about taking something to market, but do about prototyping. Dont know if that is relvelant in this case, just wanted to mention that.

 

[Robbypz]

Just a thought here. If your circuit boards need to be shockproof, there could be a simple solution of just encasing them in a resin inside a small enclosure. I did this for a motorcycle amplifier design for Indian Motorcycles and it worked extremely well.

 

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[PEBBLE]

Thnaks guys, yeah we pretty much handledthe shock proof issue, but we don't truly know until we make the prototype and test the crap out it.

 

[NObrien]

Looks like a good project. I stumbled upon your other thread and ended up reading all of that and this one too. All the best with your project. If you have any trouble with patents just go through this http://www.sparkinnovations.com/services/patents/. Patents can be really confusing and so it is better to consult some organization that provide patent service.

I wish you all the best with the project and I will keep track of this thread for more details.

 

[PEBBLE]

Looks like a good project. I stumbled upon your other thread and ended up reading all of that and this one too. All the best with your project. If you have any trouble with patents just go through this http://www.sparkinnovations.com/services/patents/. Patents can be really confusing and so it is better to consult some organization that provide patent service.

I wish you all the best with the project and I will keep track of this thread for more details.

Thank you VERY much pal, appreciate it, will give you an update:

The update is, I sacked the engineer off and got 50% refund of my money, I was hoping an new engineer could take over the project, but engineers want to work with their own schematics and designs. Personally, I think an engineer can not get emotionally invested in someone else's design, it has to be built from the foundation in my opinion.

So essentially, I am back to square one, will take my time to find an engineer this time and look at their past projects. I will not accept a proposal unless I see pics of physical products in their portfolio. Perhaps my current designs will give speed things along though and he/she can add their own ideas to it.

PEBBLE

 

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