Hit by Penguin Update - Need Recovery Help

[JM35]

So I just purchased a company, www.autobahnbmwparts.com, and learned that it had been hit by the Google Penguin Update back in may of 2012. The owner said his previous SEO company had over done it on the keyword "bmw parts" and was penalized. He says he has spent a lot of time diffusing the bad links, but he would suggest hiring a company to do Penguin Recovery.

How do I go about removing these bad links and rebuilding good links? I have SEO knowledge but nothing more than the basics and a little bit of experience.

Does anyone here have any companies they recommend that can do Penguin Recovery?

Thanks for the help!

 

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[Vigilante]

You might look up LIGHTHOUSE here on the forum. He's not FREE, but he can get you cleaned up.

 

[JM35]

thanks, I went ahead and shot him a PM.

If anyone else has any recommendations or knowledge on this, its greatly appreciated!

 

[splok]

No terribly specific advice, but do a bit of googling on disavowing links and reconsideration requests. If you plan to run this site yourself, you're going to end up needing to do your homework on SEO anyway. You can hire SEO companies, but if you don't know exactly what you're asking for and how to tell whether or not you're getting it, the chances of getting hosed are high.

(edit: I didn't mean to make it sound like you shouldn't trust Lighthouse. Just read through his posts, and you can see how much value he adds. However, in general, you'd do well to be very distrustful of SEO companies.)

 

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[JM35]

You can hire SEO companies, but if you don't know exactly what you're asking for and how to tell whether or not you're getting it, the chances of getting hosed are high.

This is one of the main worries with hiring an SEO company, ive heard there are a lot of crap companies out there which is why im looking on the forum for trusted people. On top of that I will start reading some SEO ebooks and things like that to get a better knowledge on understanding seo and how to determine effectiveness

 

[splok]

On top of that I will start reading some SEO ebooks

Keep in mind that any SEO info that's more than a year old is worthless. Well, that's not exactly true. Some bits are still useful (mostly the super-white-hat bits), and some are worse than worthless, to the point of being actively destructive (which is why you're needing some penguin recovery now obviously).

 

[JasonR]

Diversify. Utilize paid traffic. Get some sales coming in ASAP so you can pay for the SEO mistakes.

First, open Google Webmaster Tools and see if any manual penalties have been applied. If so, good freaking luck with that. I just killed a site I was experimenting with after a manual penalty.

Second, you don't know enough about SEO to do it yourself. You're going to have to hire someone, and it will be a while until you see results. As Dave mentioned above, Chris (Lighthouse) is highly recommended.

 

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[JM35]

Fortunately:

Manual Actions
No manual webspam actions found.

So that is awesome news, this could be a potential problem. Heres a screenshot of links to my site:



Most of these links seem to be from crap unrelevant sites. So hopefully I can weed these links out and build back good links.

 

[SerpKing]

Hey JM,

This is probably the answer you don't want to hear.

You're better off starting fresh with a new domain, and 301'ing www.autobahnbmwparts.com to your new domain. You're going to waste a ton of time disavowing links, removing links, etc, and there's still a chance your domain may not be SEOable - Not to mention if you've been effected by the Penguin Algo (Not Manual) you're going to have to wait for another data refresh before you know if you've made any progress - Very time consuming.

You may not make any recognizable progress for a year. It's much, much easier to start with a fresh domain, maybe even the .net version of your .com.

 

[DennisD]

I'm not an SEO expert by any means.
Which means I'm not an expert at 'gaming the system'... which is what SEO is.
Google's intent is to give the user what they want... and eliminate spam.

It turns out that what "worked" pre-panda was considered spam post-panda.
Now google's released hummingbird.. not just an update but an enirely new algorithm focused on interpreting intentions of the search, rather than just the words.

Your best case since the dawn of the search engine, and your best case NOW is to focus on what google's focused on: Give users what they want and eliminate spam.

Focus on white-hat SEO. Focus on providing better content. Focus on getting reputable links. If you don't, after the next update you'll just be destroyed again.

 

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[SerpKing]

I'm not an SEO expert by any means.
Which means I'm not an expert at 'gaming the system'... which is what SEO is.
Google's intent is to give the user what they want... and eliminate spam.

It turns out that what "worked" pre-panda was considered spam post-panda.
Now google's released hummingbird.. not just an update but an enirely new algorithm focused on interpreting intentions of the search, rather than just the words.

Your best case since the dawn of the search engine, and your best case NOW is to focus on what google's focused on: Give users what they want and eliminate spam.

Focus on white-hat SEO. Focus on providing better content. Focus on getting reputable links. If you don't, after the next update you'll just be destroyed again.

I have to make a point here - I agree that it should be all about providing value (Valuable content, service, product, whatever it may be). However to be competitive in a lot of niches it's simply not realistic to assume that valuable content alone or chasing reputable links (Think industrial equipment, "boring" niches, who is going to link to those? Who is going to share on social networks?) is enough or attainable.

There's risk associated with SEO, of course, but there's risk in everything. When you do Media Buys or test PPC there's always a risk that you're going to lose money or not get results. All I'm saying is that effective SEO can be utilized with risks minimized. Examples:

- Build your own High PR Network. Buy High PR domains or authority domains with strong backlinks. Add relevant content, make these "real", informative sites related to your niche. LINK back to your product/service site from your network, SCALE. You're obtaining HIGH Pr, credible, powerful links (the links that increase ranking) and your risk is minimized because:
a) It's your own network, it's not a public or shared gig
b) It's not spam if you use content that's informative/answers questions/provides value

Simple. "Game the system" with minimal risk. If you're doing everything else right (you actually have a good product/service/site that people enjoy & share) than the positive effects of low-risk SEO efforts (like stated above) are amplified significantly.

 

[DennisD]

I have to make a point here - I agree that it should be all about providing value (Valuable content, service, product, whatever it may be). However to be competitive in a lot of niches it's simply not realistic to assume that valuable content alone or chasing reputable links (Think industrial equipment, "boring" niches, who is going to link to those? Who is going to share on social networks?) is enough or attainable.

I know what you mean.
I'm currently ranking videos for boring niches.
(Nobody naturally links to "Philadelphia Plumber")

But we know the niche. Car parts. That's doable.

 

[Tom.V]

You're better off starting fresh with a new domain, and 301'ing www.autobahnbmwparts.com to your new domain.

I agree. OP, if I were you, I'd hit up some domain auctions and see if you can find a SIMILAR domain with existing PR, aged, with a nice backlink profile. My guess for <$100. Transfer the site to the new domain, and 301 the old domain to the new one. You'll be back in business in no time.

 

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[royalasg]

thanks, I went ahead and shot him a PM.

If anyone else has any recommendations or knowledge on this, its greatly appreciated!

here I have found some solutions for you...first one is from Matt Cutt (head of google spam team) check his feedback ragarding recovery from penguin penalty.....http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4580460.htm . after that he suggested this solution check this out http://www.searchenginejournal.com/penguin-2-0-your-roadmap-to-recovery/63906/ . Here is some more from authority sites http://searchenginewatch.com/article/2295002/Recovering-from-Penalties-Penguin-and-Panda
http://www.searchenginejournal.com/...te-and-recover-from-a-google-penguin-penalty/

Thanks

 

[healthstatus]

I don't think you have given us enough information to determine whether to move to a new domain or not. Are you getting any traffic from Google or the other search engines? Have you contacted Google through the webmaster tools and asked if the domain is under a penalty? If not, explain that you just acquired the domain and don't have any old emails from them and could they let you know or resend them to you. The phrasing they use in the emails is important to understand what work you have to do to fix the problem.

Download the CSV files from webmaster tools of the links that Google is showing, sort them by name. You will be able to determine pretty quickly what SEO method was used to get you in trouble. Spam linking from blogs and forums, article spinning, etc. Get all that pulled together then you can setup your plan of action.

 

[benhebert]

Here's what I recommend...

The domain name could be a little tricky if you ever reach a significant size. You're using BMW in the domain name and clearly you don't own that trademark.

Why not move the website over to a different site and put in a permanent 301 re-direct? Whoever the person is that sold it to you isn't going to tell you the whole truth about whatever SEO that they did to it. You'll see some backlinks but depending on how advanced they were, there might be some serious shit going on. Russian link networks, PBNs, spam spam spam.

Move to a new domain, 301 all traffic there and build organically. If you're going to do invest in any SEO... go pure whitehat with something like layeredlinks (I've had a lot of success with this company).

 

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[JM35]

hate to bring the old thread back alive, but we are finally deciding to make moves on changing the domain and redirecting the url.

The guy we purchased the company from also owns bmwpartsforsale.com and is willing to sell it to us along with bmwe46parts.com. We are thinking of using bmwpartsforsale.com as the main url and redirecting our current domain and the other one to the site. bmwpartsforsale.com has been around for awhile and already has a good link profile, but im not so sure if its all clean white hat links or if it has been penalized at all. The owner claims it is clean but im not going to spend a couple hundred bucks before im sure. Ive been doing some checking, and it all mostly looks good to me but i only know so much and can see so much. If anyone that knows a bit more than me could provide any insight that would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I understand with 301-redirecting a website, pretty much all of the link juice passes with it, since we got in trouble for "spammy links" with our current domain would it be bad to redirect it to the new one?

 

[Mrs. BRKb]

hate to bring the old thread back alive, but we are finally deciding to make moves on changing the domain and redirecting the url.

The guy we purchased the company from also owns bmwpartsforsale.com and is willing to sell it to us along with bmwe46parts.com. We are thinking of using bmwpartsforsale.com as the main url and redirecting our current domain and the other one to the site. bmwpartsforsale.com has been around for awhile and already has a good link profile, but im not so sure if its all clean white hat links or if it has been penalized at all. The owner claims it is clean but im not going to spend a couple hundred bucks before im sure. Ive been doing some checking, and it all mostly looks good to me but i only know so much and can see so much. If anyone that knows a bit more than me could provide any insight that would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I understand with 301-redirecting a website, pretty much all of the link juice passes with it, since we got in trouble for "spammy links" with our current domain would it be bad to redirect it to the new one?

Do not spend money on domains that violate trademark. They can just be taken away from you. Search uspto.gov and see who owns the bmw TMs.

The guy who is willing to sell you these domains likely knows they are a TM violation. One might argue that based on that, pretty much anything else he is telling you may or may not be true.

You're using BMW in the domain name and clearly you don't own that trademark.

 

[JM35]

I searched it and looks like the trademark for 'BMW' is for car rental. I didnt see anything mentioning retail goods. If you look at the trademark for 'BMW Performance Parts' it states a trademark for automotive parts, but the trademark on BMW doesnt.

 

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[Mrs. BRKb]

Here are the criteria used by WIPO for domain disputes:

What factors guide the panelists' decisions?

The panel decides the case on the base of the criteria, which are cumulative, contained in the UDRP Policy, which also contains practical examples of how a party may prove its compliance with these criteria:
i) whether the domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights;
ii) whether the respondent has any rights or legitimate interests in the domain name (for example, the legitimate offering of goods and services under the same name);
iii) whether the domain name was registered and is being used in bad faith.

Here are some BMW domain dispute outcomes. (The complete WIPO decisions can be looked up online.)


WIPO Arbitration and Mediation Center
ADMINISTRATIVE PANEL DECISION
Bayerische Motoren Werke Aktiengesellschaft v. Quispel Motoren
Case No. DNL2013-0026
The Complainant is Bayerische Motoren Werke Aktiengesellschaft of Munich, Germany,..
...The disputed domain name <bmwmotorenshop.nl> (the “Domain Name”) is registered with SIDN through AutoDNS.
...the Panel orders that the Domain Name <bmwmotorenshop.nl> be transferred to the Complainant.


WIPO Arbitration and Mediation Center
ADMINISTRATIVE PANEL DECISION
Bayerische Motoren Werke AG v. Victor Frankl
Case No. D2013-0701
The Complainant is Bayerische Motoren Werke AG of Munich, Germany,...
...The disputed domain name <bmwofthehamptons.com> (the “Disputed Domain Name”) is registered with GoDaddy.com, LLC. (the “Registrar”).
...the Panel orders that the Disputed Domain Name <bmwofthehamptons.com> be transferred to the Complainant.


WIPO Arbitration and Mediation Center
ADMINISTRATIVE PANEL DECISION
Bayerische Motoren Werke AG v. Fundacion Private Whois
Case No. D2012-1808
Complainant is Bayerische Motoren Werke AG of Munich, Germany,...
...The disputed domain name <bmw-karriere.com> is registered with Internet.bs Corp. (the “Registrar”).
...the Panel orders that the disputed domain name <bmw-karriere.com> be transferred to Complainant.


WIPO Arbitration and Mediation Center
ADMINISTRATIVE PANEL DECISION
Bayerische Motoren Werke Aktiengesellschaft v. Linus Geerts
Case No. DNL2012-0030
The Complainant is Bayerische Motoren Werke Aktiengesellschaft of Munich, Germany,...
...The disputed domain names <bmw-kopen.nl> and <mini-kopen.nl> are registered with SIDN through PuurIdee.
...the Panel orders that the disputed domain names <bmw-kopen.nl> and <mini-kopen.nl> be transferred to the Complainant.

 

[Travis Jamison]

I own an SEO company, and I highly recommend that you just start fresh. I believe that there is a lot of well intentioned advice in this thread, but also a lot of misinformation.

• Your websites current backlinks:
  They're crap. I just looked at all of them. Besides the Yahoo directory the rest of them are not worth saving. I could recreate all of those in about a day, which means that they simply aren't that valuable. Your links are attached below.
  
  
• Doing a 301-Redirect:
  Unfortunately parts of this loophole have closed. Grey hatters like myself abused it too much. At one time you could freely do a 301 and the penalty would not pass. Now more times than not the penalty will catch up and end up passing through the 301 within a week or two.
  BUT, it doesn't always transfer, so there is still hope if want to gamble with it. If you are going to go this route then I recommend building some "buffer links" to the new domain that do not have any money-keywords. Use only generic/branding/naked url links. After those are built and settle in then perform the 301 and it can have better results of preventing the penalty in my experience.

You can learn more about what I'm talking about in this podcast that I did:
http://www.tropicalmba.com/seo-sabotage-penguin-updates/

Options that I see:

1. Cross your fingers and try the 301 method. Don't spend a lot on a new domain, because it might end up just as penalized within a week or two.
   
   
2. Say screw Google and start focusing on Yahoo/Bing rankings. You currently rank #5 for "BMW parts" in bing (according to SEMrush). If you would bring that up to the top 1-3 you could see a 5x traffic increase from that alone according to click through distribution charts.
   
   
3. "Attempt" to clean up your bad links.
   In your situation I don't see a lot of hope as there are a lot of crappy profile links that will never be deleted, and some crap directories that are the same. BUT... if the person you bought the site from just so happens to have the logins to some of the web2.0 sites then you could delete these. If you can get enough of them down it might make a difference.
   
   
4. Close the site down. Deindex it first. Then once everything is deindexed transfer it to a clean website. Start over and do a better job.
   
   
5. Stop trying to rank for the big terms, and instead start focusing on ranking for all of the inner page longtails/parts #'s/etc.. Pages like this one bring in most of your Google traffic, but they have not received any backlink love. Focus on those.

Hope this helps.

 

[JM35]

Thank you very much for the informative post. Considering google gets about 66% of the search traffic, I think we want to start fresh and try to get back up to the first page through legit SEO tactics. Ive been reading about the 301-redirects and most people are saying that all the bad links and penalties just transferred over to the new site, so I dont think that would be a good plan of action. Plus we basically have no rankings in google as it is. I do hate to lose the yahoo and bing rankings, but we only get about 600 clicks a month from those 2 engines, compared to the number we would be able to get if we were on the top page of google.

So I think the best idea is just to start fresh, and then I suppose we may use an SEO service although it will kill our profits until we get back to a good position in the SERPS.

What about the google disavow links tool? Can we obtain any success from using that?

 

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[Travis Jamison]

What about the google disavow links tool? Can we obtain any success from using that?

Opinions vary on this, but my opinion is that it is useless unless you are dealing with a manual penalty. I fully believe that the disavow tool is one of the greatest ploys Google ever pulled on marketers. Imagine, getting the people to turn in their own networks, their own platforms, etc... It's genius and the community fell for it completely.

I have NEVER seen an evident recovery from the disavow that did not include a manual penalty. I've only seen mixed reports of people saying "well it took 8 months, but then it worked". Correlation is not causation... especially 8 months later.

So I think the best idea is just to start fresh

Why not just have multiple sites?
I have always said "why only have one in the top-10, when you can be THE top 10".

This way you don't have to lose your bing/yahoo traffic (that you should now focus on building up more), plus you have a fresh start with Goog.