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Do the Rich Work Harder?

tchandy

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We often hear that the key to wealth is hard work.

But is it really?

British billionaire Richard Branson is quoted today as saying that the wealthy don’t work harder than everyone else–they are just fortunate.

Yes, entrepreneurs may work hard, but I don’t think they actually work any harder than, say, doctors, nurses or other people in society, and yet tremendous wealth comes with it and therefore enormous responsibility comes with that wealth, responsibility to do good things, maybe create new businesses and maybe tackle some of the more seemingly intractable problems in the world…”
He may be right. But studies on the comparative work habits of the wealthy tell a different story.

Research by professors Mark Aguiar and Erik Hurst combined the results of several large surveys (including studies where randomly chosen subjects kept detailed time diaries), and found that the working time for upper-income professionals has increased compared with 1965, while total annual working time for low-skill, low-income workers has decreased.

As David Brooks put it in a 2006 column: “For the first time in human history, the rich work longer hours than the proletariat.”


Research by Daniel Kahneman
, the Nobel Prize-winning psychologist, shows that “being wealthy is often a powerful predictor that people spend less time doing pleasurable things and more time doing compulsory things and feeling stressed.”

His study found that people who earn less than $20,000 a year, for instance, spent more than a third of their time in passive leisure, like kicking back and watching TV. By contrast, those earning more than $100,000 a year (more affluent than wealthy), spent less than a fifth of their time in passive leisure.

My own experience tells me that the wealthy work insanely hard. I spent Monday and Tuesday with a billionaire who got up at 4:30 a.m., held meetings and business briefings until 9 p.m., ate dinner, then worked on emails until 2 a.m. He woke up at 5 a.m. the next morning, and started all over again. Seven days a week. This entrepreneur hadn’t taken a day off in 10 years (and I checked).

Of course, the inherited wealthy might be a different story (though plenty of them work hard, too). Still, at a time of lower pay and increasing demands on workers, it might seem like most Americans are working longer hours. But according to the OECD, total average annual work hours for those who are employed fell to 1,768 in 2009, from 1836 in 2000.

Of course, some may be working less not out of choice but by necessity. And maybe the upper-class are the only ones fortunate to be able to work long hours for hefty compensation. What is more, even the proud wealthy would admit that hard work accounts for only part of their success.

Still, based on the limited data we have, wealthy and upper-income folks really do seem to worker harder than everyone else.

Do you think the wealthy work harder than everyone else?

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09...r-than-others/?mod=rss_WSJBlog&mod=wealthbeat
 
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Rickson9

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I don't believe that the wealthy work harder.

The wealthy may choose to work harder, but that's a different story imo.

I could work harder, but I don't. Why? Because everything that I buy works for me.

Speaking for myself, I see no point in having a lot of money if I have to work for it. That's just counter productive from my POV.

In my opinion nothing can work harder than money. I don't care how hard a person can work or how little sleep they need - they can never (ever) work harder than money. Ever.

Richard Branson, Warren Buffett and other billionaires have attributed success to things other than hard work. I agree. Work habit studies don't include the odds of being born in a capitalistic society with a stable government, or in a time when money wasn't controlled by the church and state (royalty), or the fact that a person's lineage didn't die out a few centuries earlier by war or plague, and a host of other lucky coincidences. Personally I believe that what I have has a lot to do with luck. Again, that's only my personal belief.

For better or worse, my money makes more money for me while I'm playing video games or hanging out with friends over dinner than some individuals make while working multiple jobs. Also for better or worse, I was (very) lucky. It's sad, but it's true. :(
 

FDJustin

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They may be more akin to working harder, but I've seen some not-so-rich people work very hard. I can see that part of what makes the rich 'work harder' is that more often the poor have work that stays at work, which the wealthy often don't have that luxury.

Another thing is, a simple wage-earner doesn't wish to perform extra work for no extra benefit. When it comes to something like overtime, I've seen split reactions. Some people hate the idea, others jump right at it. They work harder, because they're given an opportunity for more reward.


This is almost entirely personal conjecture, but... I feel no compulsion to work more hours than I have to. The few extra dollars a week might be nice, but I measure them in pizzas. So a 30 hour work week at minimum wage is 307.50 (pre-tax etc. You can be sure it's at least 20% less) or 15 pizzas, while 38 hours a week is 389.5, or 19 pizzas. 8 hours doesn't seem so bad, but that 8 hours is the difference between a day off and a day on. If I don't need it, I can give up those four pizzas for a day of freedom.


P.S. It's a different environment than doing things for yourself, one that compels you to think like I just explained because that's how you get rewarded. It may be anti-beneficial in the long run, but it makes sense when you live it.
 

ceoarob

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IMO: Not "harder", but smarter.

For me, my friends in college ask me all the time, "Yeah Alex, why don't you get into the corporate world?"

Well, the answer is simple: I just value my time ALOT more than someone who is working at 60/hr (or whatever wages might be). The way that I'm structuring my life is so that I can live as if though I had no obligation to do something (full freedom) while still being able to live a lavish lifestyle or at least having financial power.

I don't see my life as, "Okay...if I work 600 hours, I'll make 36000 this year" Instead, I see it as, "Okay...how could I use that 600 hours in a way that would either: 1) Create an asset, 2) Educate me in a way that I could learn to make more money, 2) Educate myself in a way that would enhance my quality of life, 4) Spend it having fun.

These are just my own ways about thinking about time and money, but I think that alot of the rich aren't really "conscious" about money and time. But I can't say, I haven't had the opportunity to have heart-to-heart's with America's rich...yet.

Harder? Maybe, but probably not.

Smarter? Yes. Whenever you've got OTHER people making you money, then you're maximizing your time and efforts and getting the most that you can from other people.

-AR
 
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ceoarob

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And IMO, I think that the "rich" understand that making more money isn't necesarilly a "linear" thing.

Whenever we spend time figuring out how to better improve our businesses, create a new product, come up with a new method, etc. then even though we might not be getting paid directly for our efforts, it eventually pays off long term.

Working at a wage job, one doesn't have the ability to implement a new idea and make a profit off of it. Some McDonald's worker might make a suggestion that increases worker productivity, but he/she wouldn't get a fatter paycheck.

Yeah, they might go from 7 to 8/hr, but the people at the top get the most out of creative and innovative changes.

-AR
 

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Riches work in the flow. They are in the right place at the right time and doing the right things. They feel that everything is going well. They can slip and feel failure but it soon stops and they will be back on the track of flow.

Of course there are many who have to work harder as they are not able to work in the flow. For them, riches does come a bit harder but hard work will compromise the "flow" thing.

And then there are the poor who have fatigued mind and low mental energy. They can't seem to find the right solution. They might do something right but that's rare for them.

Everything middle is in the middle of it.
 

andviv

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Isn't this one of the topics that MJ constantly mentions?

LEVERAGE

If you own the company you reap the big rewards.

If you are the employee, you have a limit to your income, usually determined by the amount of time you put in.

I guess other point is passion. I've seen people work 120 hours a week for free, cause they like what they are doing. Volunteers don't seem to get tired. If you own the company and like what you are doing, you will work harder than anybody else, no?
 
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MJ DeMarco

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Yes, entrepreneurs may work hard, but I don’t think they actually work any harder than, say, doctors, nurses or other people in society,

Agreed, the difference is the equation to which one is bound. I doctor probably works based on an annual salary while an entrepreneur is constrained within a different universe. As Andiv alluded, it's about the implicit leverage available in your business/job/opportunity.

My own experience tells me that the wealthy work insanely hard. I spent Monday and Tuesday with a billionaire who got up at 4:30 a.m., held meetings and business briefings until 9 p.m., ate dinner, then worked on emails until 2 a.m. He woke up at 5 a.m. the next morning, and started all over again. Seven days a week. This entrepreneur hadn’t taken a day off in 10 years (and I checked).

If the entrepreneur loves what he does, then does it matter? If he loves it, then the entreprenuer has been on vacation for 10 years. While I worked 7 days straight many times, I felt FREE. I had choices. I had options. I wasn't shackled to my job or my business, and I felt fulfilled.

the Nobel Prize-winning psychologist, shows that “being wealthy is often a powerful predictor that people spend less time doing pleasurable things and more time doing compulsory things and feeling stressed.”

I would argue that these people aren't wealthy at all. You can be earning $250,000 a year and be bankrupt in time. If you're bankrupt in time, you aren't wealthy. If you don't have freedom, you don't have wealth.
 

Russ H

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tchandy said:
the Nobel Prize-winning psychologist, shows that “being wealthy is often a powerful predictor that people spend less time doing pleasurable things and more time doing compulsory things and feeling stressed.”

Ah, but it depends on what you define as "pleasurable".

You can look at this from a different perspective:

Those who are driven and wealthy do have stress, but is that stress physiologically more intense/harmful than the stress someone else feels by missing a bus, or not being able to pay their rent?

Speaking only for myself, I think entrepreneurs, experienced business owners, and investors deal w/stressors that would seem *insane* to most folks (having millions of dollars on the line, and now knowing if you're going to make payments/if the market will support your calcs, etc).

But the successful investors, entrepreneurs, and business owners (IEBOs) have learned how to deal w/those stressors so that they are NOT as affected by them as most ordinary folks.

That, and for most IEBOs, being "in the game" and playing hard is PLEASURABLE-- it's fun, and exciting.

-Russ H.
 

hatterasguy

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Its how you view "work". People of means are almost always business owners and really enjoy what they do. Also the association between hours worked and money made is meaningless, since they don't sell their time. When their is something that needs doing you do it, doesn't matter if it takes an hour or 12, when your done your done with work.

Usually as a business owner you have to work pretty long hours, but since the work is fun who cares. I know I get pissed on Fridays because people want to quite for the week and I want to keep going and get more stuff done, but I enjoy what I do.

12 hour days 6 days a week is a pretty common schedule for someone running a company.
 
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andviv

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Russ,

I recall a time when I would lose sleep when I was having problems with the rentals. I was miserable. The business/investment owned me. I had no mental peace.

Once I learned to manage that stress better I am sleeping very well, thanks.

The excitement is in finding the deal, work out the way to make it happen.

I don't mind working 14, 18 hours a day when working on a deal. I can keep going and going. It is fun. It does not feel like bad work... it is fun.

And, funny enough, I am not as tired when doing this as when I work on a different type of tasks.
 

tchandy

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The last few comments it seems like a good word to sum this up is PASSION. If you love what you're doing, it doesn't matter how many days a week you "work", you enjoy doing it.
 

Russ H

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ceoarob

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The last few comments it seems like a good word to sum this up is PASSION. If you love what you're doing, it doesn't matter how many days a week you "work", you enjoy doing it.

Completely agree.

There are certain times in my life where just pure passion alone has superseded pain, lack of food, lack of comfort, and lack of sleep.

For me, it's that inner vision which keeps me going.
 

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What if you just aren't passionate?

Ok, that's impossible. What if you aren't passionate about any one thing for an extended period of time?
 

hatterasguy

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Then you need to find what your passionate about, if you don't care about something you will never succeed in it.
 
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Rickson9

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Speaking for myself, I don't work hard, but I am passionate about investing.

With regards to how this passioin came about - that was just how I was wired I think.
 

biophase

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What is working hard?

There's a guy outside cutting my lawn and trimming my trees in 99 degree weather. Someone may look at him and say that he's working hard.

There's a guy sitting in a chair staring at a blackboard at a differential equation trying to figure out its solution. Someone may look at him and say that's he's just thinking, using his brain and not working hard. But in fact, this guy will be just as tired in an hour as the guy outside landscaping.

Can you compare the two types of work at all?
 

CarrieW

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bio I disagree.

theres mental tiredness and then physical tiredness. eventually your muscles will tire and give out. your brain never will. even when we sleep we think and figure out solutions and become inspired.

I cant imagine being tired from thinking lol.
 
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CarrieW

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ok I will admit that I am not a phd in anything lol.

but I think about alot of different stuff. its all I do. lol

one example is forex trading. most people when I try to explain forex trading(after they ask me what it is) what it is and a little bit about it their eyes glaze over and they get bored in less then 5 minutes lol.

I believe if you have to do that much thinking and you dont love what it is your thinking about then it becomes tiring. when you are passionate about it, it has a way of energizing you.
 

Drudge

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If you don't have freedom, you don't have wealth.

I definitely agree with that. Just because some billionaire is working endlessly, doesn't make him wealthy.

the reason why wealth is associated with money, is because these days freedom IS wealth, but in order to have freedom you need money. Most of the time people end up working so hard for money, that they forget that the sole reason for making money is to have freedom.
 
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biophase

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bio I disagree.

theres mental tiredness and then physical tiredness. eventually your muscles will tire and give out. your brain never will. even when we sleep we think and figure out solutions and become inspired.

I cant imagine being tired from thinking lol.

You have never gotten tired from thinking? I just don't believe that, maybe you don't realize that your brain is tired because its tiredness manifests differently than physical tiredness. We need sleep because the mind gets tired. I know that there are many times where I need to stop thinking about something and go workout or go for a drive.
 

Russ H

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bio I disagree.

theres mental tiredness and then physical tiredness. eventually your muscles will tire and give out. your brain never will. even when we sleep we think and figure out solutions and become inspired.

I cant imagine being tired from thinking lol.

I'd have to disagree as well. I've been both mentally and physically tired. On rare occasions, both (like from teaching a workshop all by myself to 100 people, for 16+ hours straight).

Mental fatigue is just as exhausting as physical fatigue-- different, but equally draining.

I *love* doing graphic design. But after 6-8 straight hours, my brain is fried. I have to stop and go out for a walk, or do something radically different that engages a different part of me.

Weirdest physical/mental condition I ever found myself in was after dealing w/LA traffic for 1-3 hours. It involved sitting in traffic going nowhere (less than 5 mph), then speeding up and EVERYONE going 60+, and having less than a car length in front AND in back of you between other cars. Making more room in front of you (to be safe) only meant that other cars cut in and used this space, cutting your distance back to less than a car length.

I'd go from driving super fast (w/these unsafe distances between cars front and back), to slamming on my brakes when everyone else slammed on their brakes.

Do that for a couple of hours and you wind up in a very strange state. I used to get home, and could not do ANYTHING-- I was physically wiped, and emotionally/mentally exhausted as well.

I'd just sit there, for about an hour, and do absolutely nothing.

Not fun.

-Russ H.
 

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Not to hijack the thread but I dont think how hard people work is what seperates the rich from the poor. I think choice and freedom is what seperates the rich from the poor more than anything else. The billionaire you mentioned who works till 2 AM and then back up at 5, that is a choice he makes. He has enough money that he could sit around all day drinking lemonade and watching grass grow but he chooses to work. However the fact that he has money means he also has the freedom to stop working anytime he wants to. It appears as though he has no time when in fact he does, he just chooses to spend it working. I would guess that he gets some positive personal satisfaction out of it and that is why he does it, not for the money at this point.

On the other side the poor person might have all the time in the world to do whatever they want, but they have no financial means of really doing anything any different. They probably work hard at their job too but they have chosen to work hard for someone else instead of themselves. This choice limits their freedom to do what they want. Their choice results in them maybe having more leisure time on the surface but no real freedom in how they spend that time. They have no money to go and do any of the things they dream about because of their financial limitations.

My belief is that a lot of people work hard but how hard you work doesnt matter. The choices you make matter more than anything else.
 
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Russ H

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I'd agree w/camski-- there are other things that separate the rich from the poor.

Wealthy folks tend to:

-Plan/think long term
-Live BELOW their means
-Not be as into "keeping up w/the Joneses"
-Have their money work for them (instead of the other way 'round)
-Not be driven by the clock (ie, "I'm gonna work today from 9-5, then I'm gonna spend what I earned")

I thought Robert Kiyosaki's book "Rich Dad Poor Dad" was great at outlining these differences, and showing how they can affect your life.

-Russ H.
 

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I dont mean to continue to argue about this. but I still disagree. lol.

maybe its because of my physical limitations(with my back) I cant do anything very physical at all. I am physically tired from doing things that most people wouldnt even consider tiring. being in pain drains you.

mentally maybe I am just used to using my brain more (because i cant use my body)idk. I dont ever really recall a time where I can say I was tired from thinking. thinking about certian things excites me and energizes me. it is like a splash of cold water or coffee would be stimulating physically. when I am tired physically and in pain its my brain and thinking that saves me. I can get so excited by using my mind I can block the physical stuff.

different people respond to different stimulus differently. when I am driving bumper to bumper, speeding to stop dead, everyone blowing their horns I dont get stressed or aggrivated. I turn up the tunes and sing. or make a phone call. people can cut me off, laugh at me, pop me the finger I dont care! eventually things move again and life goes on.

I may get bored with thinking about one thing but I can begin to think of something else and get stimulated by a new idea. when your body is worn out and tired doing something else physical is not going to help its only going to make it worse untill you physically collapse.
 

FDJustin

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bio I disagree.

theres mental tiredness and then physical tiredness. eventually your muscles will tire and give out. your brain never will. even when we sleep we think and figure out solutions and become inspired.

I cant imagine being tired from thinking lol.

Yes, the brain DOES get tired. There is heresay going around that the brain will be damaged if you work it while sick & tired. I don't know if this is true or not, but I do know being sick makes my brain tired and unable to function properly. It might even be paralyzingly difficult to do an easy task like telling you that yes, you are, in fact, wrong. With many commas to break up my sentence into small pieces for dramatic effect.

The brain is a MASSIVE energy consuming organ and not all parts of it are working all the time. When you sleep, there are many parts that are 'shut off' that would be on if you were awake. Yes, the brain may continue to sort information (build neuro-pathways) and do some problem solving as you sleep, but that isn't likely to be remotely the same as what you do when actively awake.

There is also something called brain plasticity.. I'm probably butchering this one; when one part of the brain fails to perform for whatever reason (including exhaustion), other parts will do the work. Inefficiently. This same plasticity also readapts parts of the brain that no longer have purpose. Example: Your left arm gets cut off. The part that performs left-handed motor control will eventually be put to use for other things.

With that said, thinking that your brain never gets tired is a dangerous belief. If you allow your brain to become exhausted, then go to do important tasks, you are putting yourself or the task and perhaps others at risk.
Sleepy drivers aren't just dangerous because they can fall unconscious. They're dangerous because a tired brain has a significantly reduced reaction time, and judgement capabilities.



If you don't want to take my word for it, by all means, test yourself. Stay up for about 24-30ish hours and do some acuity tests. See if you start to forget words, if you can recite history you should know fairly well, if you're as keen in math as you should be... Play an FPS and see how your reaction time fares. Read something and find out just how well you can comprehend it. If you can remember it five minutes later. Take the keys off your keychain and place them each in a different location in the house, then distract yourself with a song. Focus on the song for a few minutes and try to remember where you placed the keys.

And yes, I get being excited from thinking. I get like that sometimes, myself. I also get incredibly hyperactive when I've been up too long.
Doesn't mean my brain isn't tired, it means I'm excited and have mental and physical reaction to it. (In fact, energizing thoughts make my adrenaline glands tingle and send the sensation outwards, like electricity.)
I don't know why you're lucky enough to avoid feeling the muddling sensation of your brain saying "I'm done, for now." and drowning your thoughts in an impenetrable fog. Maybe the constant excitement keeps you feeling ready and gold. It probably over-rides the brains safety features, much the same way that taking pain killers will let you ignore that safety feature.

If I could be excited like that from thought to thought too though, I'd abuse it all the time.
 
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Russ H

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. . . different people respond to different stimulus differently. when I am driving bumper to bumper, speeding to stop dead, everyone blowing their horns I dont get stressed or aggrivated. I turn up the tunes and sing. or make a phone call. people can cut me off, laugh at me, pop me the finger I dont care! eventually things move again and life goes on.

Don't get me wrong, I love driving, and was doing the stop and go waltz from the time I was a teenager.

I've also driven in other countries-- on the other side of the road (that can get very interesting if you need to rely on your instincts and automatic responses-- b/c they're usually *wrong*).

No, LA speeding traffic, bumper to bumper, at 60+ mph, is something else entirely, at least for me. There is absolutely NO margin for error-- and you need to scan at least 8-10 cars ahead of you, in all lanes, to avoid hitting the brakes too late and kissing the car in front of you (or, at the same time, stopping TOO fast, and getting smacked by the person behind you). Mind you, this type of traffic only occurs about 1 in every 50 days down there- the rest of the time, you can have at least a car length in front of you when going at freeway speeds.

But those few times I had to drive like that (about half a dozen), when I lived down there-- whew-- not fun. :nonod:

-Russ H.
 

CarrieW

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I will re clarify.

of course every body and mind need rest. both of them. some people require more then others.

what I am saying is that lets say you have a full nights rest.(anywhere between 5-12 hours depending on the person) now you put both of them under a test. a physically challanging test and a mentally challanging test.

the person who underwent the physical test will feel physically tired and will want to rest.

the person who underwent the thinking test wont be imo.

I can think about anything I want to all day long wether it be painting my toenails or studying forex. it doesnt make me any more or less tired to think about something challanging vs something unimportant and trival. it takes the same amount of energy to think period.

at least for me this is the case.
 

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