Bicycle hustling for fun and profit

[adamhenry]

Take out the sentence in bold. It's all about making them walk away from the sale with dignity. The types of people who will accept your lowball offers are the types of people who are in dire straits- they need to pay rent or the mortgage or the car payment. Even though these guys are desperate for cash, you don't want them to read the fact that you are lowballing them.

A lot of guys get turned off by the term "lowball". They will say in their ad "no lowballers or craigslist bullshit", yet if you offer them 50% of their asking price I get some "yes" in there.

I always send out a short and sweet-

"Hey, I can give you [$x] for the [x]. I've got cash in hand and can meet you or pick it up today. Let me know if you're interested. -Alex"

Generally if I get a reply, it's a yes. If not, they usually just ignore me, which is no big deal, on to the next one.

Thanks for the tip!

I realized this myself yesterday, before your post. But what also occurred to me was that mentioning lowball might also indicate a negotiation - I.e. "here's my lowball offer, what's your counteroffer?", whereas just saying " this is how much I can pay" might not.

So I replied to three ads yesterday with this modified script, similar to what you suggested:

"Hello,

I can give you $75 cash for this bike, can pickup tonight 9pm.

Thanks!
Adam"

One of the ads was for a bike that was listed at $125, and already a good deal at that. The guy accepted my $75 offer without negotiating, which was exactly 60% of his asking price.

Picked up the bike last night - not including in my cash flow analysis because I'm keeping this one for myself, but will use this tactic now for my business purchases.

Another one was for a bike listed for $180, where I offered $100. Guy replied that if it didn't sell in his garage sale today he'd be in touch.

 

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[adamhenry]

Thinking out loud...

1. - look for ad that is a little too high
- eg. Kona downhill mtn bike @ $800

2.- offer approx 60%
- eg. offer $500 for $800 Kona

3. Sell for $100 more
- eg. sell Kona for $600

4. Therefore $100 profit

5. Rinse and repeat

Going to look for a few better examples as an experiment.

 

[adamhenry]

Sold bmx for $75, so July = +$460

 

[adamhenry]

Amazon paid out $15, so July = +$475

 

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[Rickson9]

1. "Is this still available?"

2. "What is the highest offer that you rejected?"

Decision time.

 

[Joe Cassandra]

"Hello!

I'm very interested in your (goat/iPhone/bicycle) and would take it for sure! I'd be able to give you $x cash for it (50-60% of listed price) - I know this is kind of a lowball offer, but I thought I'd see if you were flexible on the price.

If you're interested in a quick sale let me know! I could pick it up (tonight/tomorrow) at (time) if that works for you.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks!
Adam"

Maybe it's just me, but if you pitched it like that, you're placing in my head that I'm giving you a 50% discount. Most people wouldn't go for that.

If you come back with, "I see other phones going for $x , I'll give you $y [same price you're thinking above] and I'll pick it up asap.

You price anchor it in their head. When I sell something on Craigslist, I always put "$XXX dollar value" and I'm selling it for 50% off of that price. Works every time.

 

[Amail]

Just to address the "Flipping isn't Fastlane" sentiment, think again. The amounts he's dealing in are small, which is perfect for someone learning to find needs on the fly and how to negotiate. He's spotting opportunities laid out before him and making deals. If he gets it wrong, big deal; he eats $100. If that's a lesson he can apply when he's making six figure deals then it's money well spent.

The guy's building a killer skillset. Never underestimate the power of a dealmaker who knows how to negotiate.

 

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[adamhenry]

Just to address the "Flipping isn't Fastlane" sentiment, think again. The amounts he's dealing in are small, which is perfect for someone learning to find needs on the fly and how to negotiate. He's spotting opportunities laid out before him and making deals. If he gets it wrong, big deal; he eats $100. If that's a lesson he can apply when he's making six figure deals then it's money well spent.

The guy's building a killer skillset. Never underestimate the power of a dealmaker who knows how to negotiate.

Thanks for the comment!

That's my theory - if I can flip bicycles, cell phones, appliances or goats, why not real estate or businesses?

If my goal is to increase my net $ each month, I think I'll naturally move to different categories. If I look to make $50/flip, then $100/flip, and then am looking to make $200/flip, I'll probably find that at that point $200/flip is easier with motorcycles than pedalcycles, plus I'll have more working capital at that point.

$1000/flip might be cars, could $10k/flip be achieved with boats? $50k/flip with real estate? $100k?

As a side note - one key is to be always looking for improvement. For a year and a half I've received an email every time a bicycle has been posted for sale in the city. And I've noticed there a few bikes that people have been trying to sell FOR A YEAR. And you know what? They haven't changed their ad or their price or their photo or anything - they just keep reposting the same ad.

 

[jockinbox]

thanks for keeping us posted

 

[adamhenry]

Maybe it's just me, but if you pitched it like that, you're placing in my head that I'm giving you a 50% discount. Most people wouldn't go for that.

If you come back with, "I see other phones going for $x , I'll give you $y [same price you're thinking above] and I'll pick it up asap.

You price anchor it in their head. When I sell something on Craigslist, I always put "$XXX dollar value" and I'm selling it for 50% off of that price. Works every time.

I agree with the anchoring idea - except that I think the part about "other phones are going for x" might turn people off - because you're telling them they're wrong.

You could potentially get someone to anchor lower by asking for a better price first. How about:

"Hello!

I've got cash to buy this phone and could pick it up at 9pm tonight. What's the best you can do on the price?

Thanks!
Adam"

Let's say phone or bike or whatever was listed at $150, and they write back "I could let it go for $125 if you're coming tonight" - now their asking price is $125 not $150, and you can negotiate from there.

But I get that they're anchoring at $125 then, while you might've said "I see other phones going for $75".

 

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[adamhenry]

I'm trying to figure out whether it's better to ask for their best price first, or lowball first.

In the past I've generally only negotiated in person, by asking for their best price. I've often been surprised by their answer, and have been able to negotiate lower than their best price after.

For example, in the story I related previously about the Kona - the bike was posted at $150, I asked for his best price in person, he said $100, and I took it home for $80. Had I pitched 60% by email ($80), that might've been a starting point for the negotiation and we might've ended at $100 or $125.

 

[adamhenry]

Sold a pair of ten speeds for $150, so that puts me at $625, but then bought a (better) ten speed for $120, so July = +$505.

The two ten speeds I sold needed parts and a bunch of work, while the one I just bought will be just tape tires and cables, and then I think will sell for $200. Cost for parts should be about $20, so this should be a +$60 flip when it goes. The last bike I taped/tired/cabled went fairly easily for $200, (listed at $225), so this one I might list at $250 and see.

 

[oldscool]

are you using craigslist or kiji to sell your bikes?

 

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[jockinbox]

I'm trying to figure out whether it's better to ask for their best price first, or lowball first.

i usually lowball, i live in Miami if i ask what their best price is they just tell me the price they put on craigslist
selling iphone 5 for 300
whats your best price?
300

fail lol just offer something, at least in my city where everyone's a douche thats what happens

and i dont see why you cant fast lane this
build capital --> buy all the bikes on the market --> increase value by fix & repair --> re sell = profit (you can hire and train people to repair while you just buy)
also christmas time is coming up it would be wise to stock up, read @RichKid 's thread he made a killing in the last months of the year

just my .02

 

[adamhenry]

are you using craigslist or kiji to sell your bikes?

Kijiji isn't used much here, most popular is usedvictoria.com, but craigslist here gets enough traffic to be worthwhile too. I also find that people new to the city (students) aren't aware of usedvictoria, so you can find or make good deals on craigslist, where they'll tend to look first.

 

[adamhenry]

i usually lowball, i live in Miami if i ask what their best price is they just tell me the price they put on craigslist
selling iphone 5 for 300
whats your best price?
300

fail lol just offer something, at least in my city where everyone's a douche thats what happens

and i dont see why you cant fast lane this
build capital --> buy all the bikes on the market --> increase value by fix & repair --> re sell = profit (you can hire and train people to repair while you just buy)
also christmas time is coming up it would be wise to stock up, read @RichKid 's thread he made a killing in the last months of the year

just my .02

Thanks jockinbox, yeah I'm thinking the "best price" thing might work best in person (putting them on the spot), and instead lowball by email.

 

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[jon.a]

I'm liking this thread too. I love the hustle threads. This could be as much fast lane as MJ's driving a limo was. Maybe more so, as you are not an employee. It's like watching a toddler toddle.

 

[jockinbox]

Thanks jockinbox, yeah I'm thinking the "best price" thing might work best in person (putting them on the spot), and instead lowball by email.

sometimes when they give you a hard time over the phone just show up with less cash
empty out your wallet in front of them and say look this is all i have, i had to put gas

ex i bought a ps3 at 150 a few months ago (selling on ebay for around 200 at the time)
showed up with 130 and he said you're already here might as well

just my .02

 

[adamhenry]

Sold three junky mountain bikes for $40, so July = +$545

 

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[Hayden]

sometimes when they give you a hard time over the phone just show up with less cash
empty out your wallet in front of them and say look this is all i have, i had to put gas

If I was the seller in that scenario, I'd just say "Ok, guess you aren't buying it then", and wait for you to pull out the extra $20 from your pocket. But of course most people on craigslist are stupid so I am not surprised that it worked.

From a sellers perspective, if someone drives to meet you without previously negotiating a lower price, it's almost 100% certain that they are willing to pay full asking price in my experience.

 

[jockinbox]

If I was the seller in that scenario, I'd just say "Ok, guess you aren't buying it then", and wait for you to pull out the extra $20 from your pocket. But of course most people on craigslist are stupid so I am not surprised that it worked.

I wouldn't call him stupid for doing that, just distressed. In this Hustling business the only money you ever really make are from people in a tight spot. If they are short on rent/car payment the first thing they do is sell things they dont use/need. No body is stupid, I'm sure 99% of people check on ebay/amazon to see what its selling for and price accordingly.

ex I purchased a motorcycle (ninja 650) from a guy who was selling it for 2500. he had a kid on the way didnt need a motorcycle anymore and he was looking for some extra cushion. I felt him out through conversation & body language and determined that he really didnt need 2500, he had also posted the bike on cragislist for a few days (meaning nobody was interested) i made an offer of 1000 and he accepted.

You cant really make a killing on electronics (ipods, iphones, phones, video games) anymore because some clowns posted a video on YouTube on how to make money off Craigslist and everyone started doing it. Furthermore anyone can have 300 bucks to buy a phone and if you dont have the amount im looking to get out of it, I can just wait it out, eventually someone will offer more.
With larger ticket items such as cars and motorcycles, people don't walk around with 10k in their pocket to blow. You can get 12k cars and bikes for 8k if you wanted to because no one walks around with that kind of free cash.

 

[Geeko]

What things are you looking for in a bike? I live in the same area and am planning to try my first flip soon.

Oh, btw great thread

 

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[adamhenry]

What things are you looking for in a bike? I live in the same area and am planning to try my first flip soon.

Oh, btw great thread

Same area? How close? I'd be happy to help.

There's a bunch of different things I'm looking at, might depend on what you mean.

First of all, I'm looking at price of course. I use Blogtrottr to send me an email every time a bike is posted to Craigslist, UsedVictoria, or Kijiji. I check all these emails, (and have been doing so for a year and a half), so have a good knowledge of prices - this is the most important thing, and basically what I figure I get paid for, because I take advantage of opportunities to buy low and sell high.

For pricing, its mostly a combination of brands and type. For example: Kona, Trek, Rocky Mountain = Good; CCM, Nakamura, Next = Crap. Then for type, I'd say roughly (assuming good brands):

Basic mountain bike = $100
Suspension mountain bike = $150
Disc brake mountain bike = $200
Full suspension disc brake mountain bike = $300
Vintage 10 speed road bike = $150
Modern road bike = $300
Hybrid = $200

In other words, a Trek mountain bike with front suspension should sell for $150-$200 pretty easily. So if an ad comes up for one for $100, you should grab it. This is pricing in my area anyhow, and assuming the bike is in ready to ride condition.

Let me know if you want some tips about what to look for condition wise.

 

[adamhenry]

Also, to keep you updated, I bought a Peugeot 10 speed for $60, so July = +$485, removed the rear rack and basket that I'll sell separately, put air in the tires and sold it for $200, so July = +$685.

Also bought a Nishiki 10 speed for $75, so July = +$615.
Also spent $30 at thrift store buying books to sell on Amazon, so July = +$585.

 

[Geeko]

Living in Saanich area right now. Could you possibly let me know if any of these are a good potential flip
http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/Beach-Cruiser_22581342 seems you dont do many cruisers, not a large enough market?
http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4570632049.html looks like a great deal. Possibly going to look at it today
http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4544989192.html been up for a while.
http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4547218477.html


Edit: the Norco DH bike owner seems to not know what he has. Didnt even list the product name (VPS)
Edit 2: I know someone mentioned phones (iphones) and there seems to be a plethora of them on usedvic
Edit 3: Ever done folding bikes, seems like a cheap/easy flip

 

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[adamhenry]

Living in Saanich area right now. Could you possibly let me know if any of these are a good potential flip
http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/Beach-Cruiser_22581342 seems you dont do many cruisers, not a large enough market?
http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4570632049.html looks like a great deal. Possibly going to look at it today
http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4544989192.html been up for a while.
http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4547218477.html


Edit: the Norco DH bike owner seems to not know what he has. Didnt even list the product name (VPS)
Edit 2: I know someone mentioned phones (iphones) and there seems to be a plethora of them on usedvic
Edit 3: Ever done folding bikes, seems like a cheap/easy flip

I'd pass on the Higgins - stupid looking handlebars and horn, probably why it hasn't sold.

I'd also pass on the rusty "old bike" - mostly because cruisers aren't super popular in Victoria (not great on hills). With a cruiser I'd want one that doesn't need work, and I'd be planning to sell it for around $100.

Therefore, the first beach cruiser looks like a good deal - especially if you can get it a little less - say $50-$60, .

But generally I try and avoid cruisers due to hills.

The Norco is a good price. Note that he hasn't listed the model or size, so when you flip it, listing these features will help. Plus when you figure out what it is and can put the original MSRP in your ad, that should help too.

I'd just be a little wary of condition. He mentioned a couple of things that need to be fixed - since it's been used and presumably abused, the drivetrain might need replacement - not overly expensive if you do it yourself though.

Let me know if you get it, and I can help you figure out what it needs, how to do it, etc. Can lend tools too if you need.

 

[Geeko]

Therefore, the first beach cruiser looks like a good deal - especially if you can get it a little less - say $50-$60, .

The Norco is a good price. Note that he hasn't listed the model or size, so when you flip it, listing these features will help. Plus when you figure out what it is and can put the original MSRP in your ad, that should help too.

I'd just be a little wary of condition. He mentioned a couple of things that need to be fixed - since it's been used and presumably abused, the drivetrain might need replacement - not overly expensive if you do it yourself though.

Let me know if you get it, and I can help you figure out what it needs, how to do it, etc. Can lend tools too if you need.

Going to approach both the cruiser and Norco hopefully today. Unfortunately they both only have an email listed. Do you have experience when people say price is firm (like on the Norco?) I was going to ask him whats his lowest price and (hopefully he doesn't say the listed price) then take of like $20 or $15.
ie; for sale 200
ask lowest = 180
offer= 160-165
Haggle from there

 

[adamhenry]

For folding bikes - I haven't bought and sold one yet, but I'd say they're $100 in good working condition. So if you can get around $50 probably an ok buy - but try to stay away from weird bikes and weird sizes in general.

 

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[adamhenry]

Going to approach both the cruiser and Norco hopefully today. Unfortunately they both only have an email listed. Do you have experience when people say price is firm (like on the Norco?) I was going to ask him whats his lowest price and (hopefully he doesn't say the listed price) then take of like $20 or $15.
ie; for sale 200
ask lowest = 180
offer= 160-165
Haggle from there

When they say firm, I usually find they won't move on price in advance, but maybe in person. The Norco is probably about a 2002 model, so when you get there you can say "well, it's a nice bike, but it's like ten years old and needs work. I can give you $180 cash right now and take it away, but that's the best I can do". I'd avoid asking for his best price or if he can do better on the price - since he's already stated " firm", asking for a better price will probably just get him to dig in his heels. Instead I'd recommend just offering something close to what he's asking. Avoid insulting him when you point out defects, you have to be gentle like "man it's a sweet bike, just more of a project than I was expecting".

 

[adamhenry]

Going to approach both the cruiser and Norco hopefully today. Unfortunately they both only have an email listed. Do you have experience when people say price is firm (like on the Norco?) I was going to ask him whats his lowest price and (hopefully he doesn't say the listed price) then take of like $20 or $15.
ie; for sale 200
ask lowest = 180
offer= 160-165
Haggle from there

When they say firm, I usually find they won't move on price in advance, but maybe in person. The Norco is probably about a 2002 model, so when you get there you can say "well, it's a nice bike, but it's like ten years old and needs work. I can give you $160 cash right now and take it away, but that's the best I can do". I'd avoid asking for his best price or if he can do better on the price - since he's already stated " firm", asking for a better price will probably just get him to dig in his heels. Instead I'd recommend just offering something close to what he's asking. Avoid insulting him when you point out defects, you have to be gentle like "man it's a sweet bike, just more of a project than I was expecting".