Accepting Bitcoin

[theag]

All money isnt real. Its just promises and trust. Some have more, some less.

 

[GlobalWealth]

So the value becomes in doing a quick swap out of BitCoin for real currency?

You need to expand your worldview a bit. The value is much more.

Chinese people cannot move more than $50,000 outside of China in one year. Imagine you are a Chinese person and want to buy a beach condo in the Caribbean for $400,000. Either you find 8 friends to help you out or wait 8 years. With bitcoin you can use a Chinese exchange to convert to bitcoin, send the money to an exchange in the Caribbean and then use the cash to buy your house.

Russians are currently heavily sanctioned and have a hard time getting money out of the country. With bitcoin they can easily do so.

In my business, if I have a client who needs to pay me $10,000 or more, he must do a wire transfer from his bank to my non-US bank. If he is in the US his bank will most certainly file a SAR (suspicious activity report) since the wire is larger (over $10k) and going to a foreign bank. This can potentially freeze the wire for days until the wire is cleared. Even if not frozen, the wire takes from 2-5 days to arrive. The sender pays $50-80 and I would pay $25-50 to receive. With bitcoin, my client could exchange his $10,000 for bitcoin in seconds, send me the money in seconds, and I could convert it to any currency I wish in seconds. And the transaction would cost just a few dollars.

By definition, money is a medium of exchange and a store of value.

As a medium of exchange, bitcoin fills this role quite well. It is not yet adopted on a large scale, but more and more merchants are accepting it every day. For small transactions, I personally find it too cumbersome. Cash or credit card is much easier.

For larger transactions, it is much easier, quicker and less costly. Clearly not all of my clients transact in bitcoin, but for the ones who do - fantastic.

As a store of value, clearly bitcoin is not very good. it is too volatile to offer any reasonable business person enough safety to hold savings. This was my original point.


Another note, this "real currency" you speak of is not real at all if you truly understand central banking and the fractional reserve system. In fact all of your "real currency" is nothing but debt. Paper debt created out of thin air.

The only reason it exists is because #1 governments have determined it to be legal tender and #2 people have collectively decided it is money.

100 years ago (and you could argue that 45 years ago) all money was actually gold and/or silver. This "real currency" you speak of had no value and had failed in every previous experiment.

People decided it had no value unless backed by gold. 100 years is not so long ago in economic history.

Today governments around the world have fully embraced central banking as their own personal checkbooks allowing them to write checks with no funds to support it. People are finally awakening to this.

The fiat system is collapsing. We will likely see it in our lifetimes.

Maybe digital currency is the replacement. Maybe not. Who knows? I cannot tell the future no more than you can.

If it were a stable currency, you wouldn't need to play the shell games to mitigate your risk.

I would argue the same thing against the dollar. Since the inception of the federal reserve in 1913, the US dollar has lost about 97% of its purchasing power.

This is exactly why I mitigate my risk by keeping little cash. When I have excess cash, I buy assets. Real estate, metals, businesses, etc.

I don't keep bitcoin as a store of value either.

 

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[Vigilante]

Theres something deeply satisfying that comes from using forum cash to award speed points to quality buttcoin posts in this thread.

 

[Vigilante]

We accept BitCoin. We also accept Monopoly money, chickens, and IOU's.

Is BitCoin still a thing? I thought they determined like 2 years ago that the original creators fleeced everyone. Is this the remnant of the losers of the BitCoin debacle trying to recoup what they lost when the BitCoin market imploded?

 

[Vick]

I dont understand when people say Bitcoin isnt real.

Someone paid me in Bitcoin. Went straight to my bank account the next day.

I went and bought Cornflakes with it. Therefore money.

Whats the problem?

 

[Hurlaban]

Bitcoin has a bright future but the real value isnt Bitcoin, its the blockchain. Blockchain technology is the future.

 

[Vick]

yup. I've had 1 sale in bit coin.

 

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[theag]

We also accept Monopoly money, chickens, and IOU's.

Thats smart. Popular online marketing wisdom says that the more payment options you offer, the better conversion rates you get.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

I am going on record as stating that I think you are foolish if you are doing anything with BitCoins other than sitting on the sidelines and watching with amusement as theives and robbers steal money through this unregulated, unvalidated exchange of money for nothing.

I'm going on record saying I think you are foolish for not accepting bitcoin for transactional use. Anyone who doesn't really doesn't understand the beauty of the system.

With companies like Expedia . com, Tigerdirect . com and Overstock . com are accepting bitcoin, I'd say they know a bit more than I do about the future of digital currencies.

When visionaries like Richard Branson and Peter Thiel are investing in and accepting bitcoin in their businesses I'd say there is a future.

 

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[Vigilante]

They have less to lose and more to gain.

They may accept $10k worth of monopoly money, but the value of the geeks thinking they are cool because they accept BitCoin may bring in $500k worth of real money.

And, some of those companies are publicly held and lose money anyway, so what the hell difference does it make to them if they lose $50k of someone else's money on artificial currency?

My business runs on cash. Good ol' fashioned, real greenbacks. And chickens.

 

[Vigilante]

So the value becomes in doing a quick swap out of BitCoin for real currency? As long as you are not the last one left when the music stops. Solid strategy. Tell the people who have lost their artificial fortunes that there's no risk. You're kidding yourself. Your strategy is in immediately divesting yourself of bitcoins by converting it to real money. In essence, you're making my point for me. If it were a stable currency, you wouldn't need to play the shell games to mitigate your risk. By your own definition, BitCoin is fraught with peril. You just immediately sell it and hope the market holds within the time it takes you to make it someone else's problem.

There eventually will be a world currency. When that happens, the world will likely have bigger issues than artificial faux-currency markets.

By the way, I have cornered the VigDollar. I own them all. I will start using them as currency some time in 2015. They're going to increase significantly in value, so if you are lucky enough to have me pay you in them now.. you might want to just sit on them a while while I unload the rest of them.

 

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[Esquire]

Federal Reserve Notes are fiat currency ... but unlike Bitcoin ... it's fiat currency I can pay my taxes with.

And everyone accepts it. I don't like a currency where I have to "figure out" where I can spend it.

Pain in the a$$.

Plus ... I have more faith in the Federal Reserve System ... than I do the "mystery man behind the curtain."

So I'm going to take a pass on Bitcoin. Makes me uneasy.

And call me nuts ... but if you are doing a lot of bitcoin transactions ... my money says you are increasing the odds of an IRS audit.

I could be wrong ... but I might be right.

Pass.

 

[DeletedUser394]

I once ate a chocolate bar in the shape of a bitcoin.

That is the extent of my investment experience in the alt currencies.

It was good.

 

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[Vigilante]

The SEC is looking at a formal approval of a fund, with a decision due by June. I think that is what might be driving the price. If it is approved, people will be able to buy it through their normal brokerages, and then it likely WILL hit $2k or more if the average Joe can now buy it through normal channels.

 

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[Vigilante]

The only issue is with the transport of the chickens. Usually that is local business (from Craigslist.)

 

[GlobalWealth]

They have less to lose and more to gain.

They may accept $10k worth of monopoly money, but the value of the geeks thinking they are cool because they accept BitCoin may bring in $500k worth of real money.

And, some of those companies are publicly held and lose money anyway, so what the hell difference does it make to them if they lose $50k of someone else's money on artificial currency?

My business runs on cash. Good ol' fashioned, real greenbacks. And chickens.

You really don't understand bitcoin do you?

For transactional use, it is impossible to lose money. I can make a sale, collect my money in seconds, convert to fiat currency in seconds. I have no bitcoin risk whatsoever.

I can receive a wire in seconds with virtually zero cost vs. receiving a fiat wire in days with $100+ cost.

 

[Vick]

regardless.

digital currency will be in our future.

be wise to keep up with it.

people who fall behind lose.

 

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[tafy]

ATM because its volatile you should just convert and not hold.

Bitcoin strength is for paying across borders without fees. Imagine sending your friend in Africa 20$. You will pay more than that in fees alone with a bank. With bitcoin its simple and cheap.

 

[Esquire]

Guys, thing is, when you accept bitcoin, you are not actually KEEPING it as a bitcoin though. It gets converted straight away into cash and it goes into your bank account so what are the risks? Surely there are none since you aren't actually keeping the bitcoin...

So if everyone is playing bitcoin "hot potato" ... who is the ultimate end user ...?

Who is saying ... "sure ... give me all your bitcoins for cash ... sounds good to me!"

Why would I want to be the person on the other side of the equation ...?

Absent a compelling explanation ... just looks like one great big ponzi scheme to me.

 

[Davo]

Some people/companies are keeping Bitcoin long term and others are converting straight away. If I remember one article stated that newegg were keeping their sales from BTC in BTC.

 

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[Guest3722A]

Ok, so here's a timestamp:
(edit) the format didn't work right but it can be figured out


TimestampOpenHighLowCloseVolume (BTC)Volume (Currency)Weighted Price
2015-01-01 00:00:00321321319.04319.6678.0324976.64320.1
2015-01-01 01:00:00319.76319.76317.5317.580.1525496.05318.12
2015-01-01 02:00:00318.54318.82317.54317.8714.374574.69318.31
2015-01-01 03:00:00318.42318.59317.56318.3920.716592.47318.39
2015-01-01 04:00:00318.39318.39313.55314757.47238960.86315.47
2015-01-01 05:00:00314314312.6313.9859.6718709.18313.54
2015-01-01 06:00:00314.7315.8314.34315.223.957553.45315.4
2015-01-01 07:00:00315.38317.11315.12315.791.6628976.39316.12
2015-01-01 08:00:00315.67316.27314.34316.2733.0710429.26315.4
2015-01-01 09:00:00316.01318.25315316.64286.2990896.98317.5
2015-01-01 10:00:00316.64317.3314.41315.63178.9156384.3315.15
2015-01-01 11:00:00315.63315.96314.72315.5765.1720540.53315.19
2015-01-01 12:00:00315.57316.93315.57316.83309491.77316.35
2015-01-01 13:00:00316.51317.37316.09316.2244.3314041.44316.75
2015-01-01 14:00:00317.15317.27313.68315.12287.7490510.61314.56
2015-01-01 15:00:00315.23315.97313.24313.24208.9865658.93314.19
2015-01-01 16:00:00314.01315.52313.25314.9341.7513130.76314.49
2015-01-01 17:00:00315.44315.89315315.45149.7447186.87315.12
2015-01-01 18:00:00315.45315.95315315.3884.2826565.93315.21
2015-01-01 19:00:00315.39315.4314.93315.470.6222265.59315.3
2015-01-01 20:00:00315.39315.98313.6315.54155.2748915.69315.04
2015-01-01 21:00:00315.56316314.36314.369931237.14315.52
2015-01-01 22:00:00314.93316.49314.75315.45114.2336070.27315.77
2015-01-01 23:00:00315.27316.55313.61313.81112.0435343.77315.46
2015-01-02 00:00:00313.82314.8311.96313.26358.11111999.36312.75
2015-01-02 01:00:00313.26315.59312.24315.59102.0532105.19314.62
2015-01-02 02:00:00315.59315.59314.94315.3481.3825675.41315.51
2015-01-02 03:00:00315.34315.99314.34315.6750.2715854.2315.35
2015-01-02 04:00:00315.65315.99313.82315.98199.7463027.89315.54
2015-01-02 05:00:00315.93315.99315.2315.754815154.37315.71
2015-01-02 06:00:00315.72315.94314.2315.22145.445834.93315.23
2015-01-02 07:00:00315.26315.26312.02312.0292.2828870.64312.87
2015-01-02 08:00:00313.89314.89312.44314.8858.8318466.37313.9
2015-01-02 09:00:00314314.78313.61314.154.1817015.69314.06
2015-01-02 10:00:00314.1315313.77315104.4332846.94314.53
2015-01-02 11:00:00314.84315.14314.3314.339.4712423.47314.73
2015-01-02 12:00:00314.93315.42314.3315.0152.4416517.83315
2015-01-02 13:00:00315.31317.01315.01315.57365.99115685.73316.09
2015-01-02 14:00:00315.55316.19315.01315.960.0818958.76315.57
2015-01-02 15:00:00315.89316.83315315.03106.1933544.48315.88
2015-01-02 16:00:00315.66316.34314.25314.49214.5767527.65314.72
2015-01-02 17:00:00314.67316.17313.45314.84396.43124822.91314.87
2015-01-02 18:00:00315.59316.4314.87315.95114.6236208.92315.91
2015-01-02 19:00:00315.94316.48315.88316.183.2726332.68316.23
2015-01-02 20:00:00316.2316.83314.06316.65335.58106024.36315.94
2015-01-02 21:00:00316.65316.65313.5315.11257.1380855.94314.45
2015-01-02 22:00:00314.6316.06314.31315.9243.3713672.49315.24
2015-01-02 23:00:00315.9316.64315315.42104.4633019.48316.1
2015-01-03 00:00:00315.42316.58314.41316.4151.1547778.2316.1
2015-01-03 01:00:00316.35316.53314.77315.5994.0329699.43315.85
2015-01-03 02:00:00315.56315.79312.9312.9186.0958429.31313.98
2015-01-03 03:00:00313.36313.36311.33312.06670.71209265.68312.01
2015-01-03 04:00:00312.81313.37312.2313.0727.438578.92312.73
2015-01-03 05:00:00312.19313.73311.69311.6973.3822937.92312.57
2015-01-03 06:00:00311.69312.82305.7309.452407.14744702.54309.37
2015-01-03 07:00:00308.74309.34306306.47189.6858248.42307.08
2015-01-03 08:00:00306.46307.85306307.2331.35101729.14307.02
2015-01-03 09:00:00306.65307.43303.46306.4953.22290969.83305.25
2015-01-03 10:00:00306.4307306.03306.9764.3819740.26306.62
2015-01-03 11:00:00306.98307304.45304.9200.2461208.92305.68
2015-01-03 12:00:00304.9304.9298.89301.312804842684.33300.53
2015-01-03 13:00:00301.36301.36297.97299.06874.15261151.76298.75
2015-01-03 14:00:00299.51302.05297299.99879.26262815.62298.9
2015-01-03 15:00:00299.99304.19299.99301.95559.52169226.15302.45
2015-01-03 16:00:00301.26302.8300.49301.46353.33106609.58301.73
2015-01-03 17:00:00301.46302.8299.82301248.1774792.37301.38
2015-01-03 18:00:00301302.7298.83300353.1106127.8300.56
2015-01-03 19:00:00299.67300.54291.042922539.59749819.06295.25
2015-01-03 20:00:00292296.85288.88293.41984.83580462.25292.45
2015-01-03 21:00:00293.4293.95287.45290.491604.28464642.28289.63
2015-01-03 22:00:00290.49293286287.841627.3469824.57288.71
2015-01-03 23:00:00288.07289.812802822576.38734507.53285.09
2015-01-04 00:00:00280289.392772872712.56764516.98281.84
2015-01-04 01:00:00286.52287280.35281.551388.9393848.93283.57
2015-01-04 02:00:00281.65284.92277.78282.051518.38425755.43280.4
2015-01-04 03:00:00282.97284.62279.48279.48804.03226156.15281.28
2015-01-04 04:00:00279.48288.96278.1283.561936.42546854.62282.4
2015-01-04 05:00:00284.61286279.81279.81880.92250186.26284.01
2015-01-04 06:00:00279.81283.64278279.891194.18334461.37280.08
2015-01-04 07:00:00279.88283.33279.84282.77293.9382906.25282.06
2015-01-04 08:00:00281.82287.36281.22285.15883.7252075.38285.25
2015-01-04 09:00:00285.17288.91283.54286.351040.89298037.26286.33
2015-01-04 10:00:00286.38288.84284.68285.19550.68158421.74287.68
2015-01-04 11:00:00285.17285.18282.38283.9315.6389483.95283.51
2015-01-04 12:00:00283.94285.15281.6281.6359.41101806.71283.26
2015-01-04 13:00:00281.99281.99260264.976224.341682264.27270.27
2015-01-04 14:00:00264.97269.792602643408.91903750.61265.11
2015-01-04 15:00:00264266.032552654431.71156426.39260.94
2015-01-04 16:00:00264.06273.94262.582662916.27781275.73267.9
2015-01-04 17:00:00266271.65265.48270.012036.73546495.03268.32
2015-01-04 18:00:00270.04273.96266.96267.461442.69389593.38270.05
2015-01-04 19:00:00267.45272.52265.24270.621376.48369852.69268.69
2015-01-04 20:00:00270.8272268268.03770.92208002.49269.81
2015-01-04 21:00:00268.5270265.512671469.89392599.8267.09
2015-01-04 22:00:00266.96267.83256.88259.812568.58671909.61261.59
2015-01-04 23:00:00259.8264.95258.66264915.14240081.62262.34
2015-01-05 00:00:00264.55268.99264.07267.61681.12182221.78267.53
2015-01-05 01:00:00267.65274.38267.12721121.54304150.99271.19
2015-01-05 02:00:00272277.45271.76276.431292.04355480.55275.13
2015-01-05 03:00:00276.33278.7270272.21475.98404836.69274.28
2015-01-05 04:00:00272.19274.75270272.14940.93255032.8271.04
2015-01-05 05:00:00272.86273.33264.95268.071190.63319171.98268.07
2015-01-05 06:00:00268.05272.45267.8269.8815.26220379.25270.32
2015-01-05 07:00:00269.9275.09269.58275.09606.49165379.33272.68
2015-01-05 08:00:00274.76280273.28279.011336.86371503.76277.89
2015-01-05 09:00:00279.01279.01276.66276.867.4218740.74277.98


Let's say on 1.1.15 at midnight I bought one, and paid the $321 for it. By 00:59:59 I already lost over 1.30, as its closing value is $319.66. So in one hour, I don't need to worry about paying any banking fees when I decide to use this, but I did lose 1.34. The next hour, I now lost $3.50. I won't have to worry about paying a banking fee, but in 2 hours my value has now dropped $3.50.

Now let's say I want to buy something over seas five days later timestamp: 1.5.15 at midnight. I won't need to worry about banking fees, but what was once valued at $321 is now $268.99 a total loss in value of over $50.

Now what if what I wanted to buy was $270ish but I only had one bitcoin? (which I originally paid $321 just 5 days prior.) What do I do now, buy another bitcoin to make up the difference to avoid a banking fee?

Should I wait for the value of the bitcoin to go up before I buy?

What happens to my change?

How does someone become a seller of these things?

Should I buy them in hopes to keep the wheel spinning to help Africa and Asia?



If I'm not getting this strait, please point it out to me

How does someone become a seller of these things?

Should I buy them in hopes to keep the wheel spinning to help Africa and Asia?



If I'm not getting this strait, please point it out to me

 

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[Hurlaban]

The unresolved issue with Bitcoin is that it's low fees are not sustainable. Bitcoin relies on miners who buy hardware to process/record transactions on the blockchain, miners then get rewarded with 'new' Bitcoin. The problem is that there isnt an unlimited supply of new Bitcoin to keep rewarding miners with, only 21 million will be created. So what happens when there are no more Bitcoins to reward miners with for processing the transactions?

 

[Mattie]

https://localbitcoins.com/forums/#!/

Just looking at this forum, it makes me a little nervous just reading it! Listening to some of it on you tube, I think I'd be stressing myself out wondering if it would get stolen, or if I lost it by doing something stupid, or just being tricked out of it.

And the fraud list:

https://localbitcoins.com/forums/#!/fraud

 

[Vigilante]

http://fortune.com/2014/10/24/bitcoin-fraud-scam/

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Why bitcoin is poised for big momentum in 2015"

To be honest, I don't know enough about it. And things I don't know enough about, I stay away until I do. And behind the stories of all people losing their shirts in things, is because they invested in something they didn't understand.

 

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[Vigilante]

Crashed

Hope you sold

Bitcoin Slides as Much as 20% as Chinese Yuan Rises

 

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[AceCobra1]

I would think accepting bitcoin would certainly make your business stand out from other competitors... but what are the pitfalls of accepting it? I can't see many if it is converted straight into money.

 

[GlobalWealth]

We accept bitcoin

 

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[Vigilante]

This is SO last year, people :

http://www.wired.com/2014/03/bitcoin-exchange/

And this is just ONE of the stories.

I am going on record as stating that I think you are foolish if you are doing anything with BitCoins other than sitting on the sidelines and watching with amusement as theives and robbers steal money through this unregulated, unvalidated exchange of money for nothing.

 

[Rawr]

I remember visiting a long time friend and bringing up bitcoin. He said he's mined 5 or 6. The price was $900 and I thought he should sell.
What stops it from going to $50 or $20? People told me "there is a limited supply" so the basic economics would then say the price would keep going up. Yet we have this chart.

 

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