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OFF-TOPIC Will we see an actual war with China?

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Andreas Thiel

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Hi all.

We are in the middle of a trade war. Does anybody think we will see an actual war with China?

Given the issues in the oil sector, I thought a war with Iran is likely. That might "solve" the problem of low prices.

But what about Brzezinski and the grand chessboard? How else could China be subdued economically?
As far as I know, think tanks have determined that a war with China must happen soon, before China gets too powerful.


War has historically been great for GDP growth. Presidents get reelected if they are in a war.

The USA is practising nuklear strikes.

The economic sactions that Trump considered recently sound pretty close to something that usually leads to military conflicts.

Has this been discussed here, already? I did a search, but mostly found this rant RANT - China is our #1 enemy and what to do about it which does not mention the war option, but shows a sentiment that politicians can tap into ... as well as trade war related threads.
 

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Odysseus M Jones

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No there won't be a war.
Why are low oil prices a problem?
Why do you want to see China subdued economically?
Who is 'we?'
You're in Germany but talking from a US standpoint.
Do you want a war for the sake of GDP?

I lived in Hong Kong when the west was paranoid about North Korea and the next world war was all over the news.
It was business as usual in Asia, no alarm bells, nothing.

You're halfway around the world and listen what the media feed you.
Don't believe everything you read.

Anyway, this is politics, taboo here.
 

AgainstAllOdds

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I lived in Hong Kong when the west was paranoid about North Korea and the next world war was all over the news.
It was business as usual in Asia, no alarm bells, nothing.
Yeah, but this time it's the opposite.

I have Chinese friends asking me if a war will start. Meanwhile there's no American even considering this as an option.

I personally don't think a war will happen. The probability is next to zero.

But I do believe the trade war will continue and the intensity will increase. I also believe that China will start getting pressured from other countries. There's an incredible amount of anti-Chinese sentiment as a result of corona - whether they had anything to do with it is irrelevant.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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You're German commenting on American politics. Why do people do this? Same way people comment on what's considered freedom of speech in the US when they have hate speech laws in their countries. Or the people that comment on gun violence in the US when they live in a country that bans guns.
 

PizzaOnTheRoof

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No there won't be a war.
Why are low oil prices a problem?
Why do you want to see China subdued economically?
Who is 'we?'
You're in Germany but talking from a US standpoint.
Do you want a war for the sake of GDP?

I lived in Hong Kong when the west was paranoid about North Korea and the next world war was all over the news.
It was business as usual in Asia, no alarm bells, nothing.

You're halfway around the world and listen what the media feed you.
Don't believe everything you read.

Anyway, this is politics, taboo here.
As a Texan, low oil prices means millions of unemployed oil workers and a crashing of our state GDP.

It's a problem.
 

Classmate

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If the topic is a possibility of a war, every and each NATO country can and should give their opinion, once under the NATO Agreement if a NATO country is attacked, all NATO countries should defend that country (by other words, they're pushed into war if they want to make up to the agreement).
The same for the Chinese allies.
The same for every country that would be truly affected economically by this.

It's more than half of the world.

In other words, maybe a Crimea crisis between Russia and a country with "tight relations with some NATO countries", but not a NATO member (Ukraine), can be a discussion between Russia, Eastern Europe, some countries in Central and South Europe (not all), and some near-by Asian countries.

Most of the wars are like this. They "only" impact a significant part of a continent.
And most of the impact is simply economical and they need to send some troops. In the end, is relevant, but not that relevant to a lot of people.

But that wouldn't be the case in this war. Especially if you have like 50% of the GDP involved, or something similar.

You can think...oh well...let's not do it then - NATO doesn't matter.
That would be a big change for the world. Are you seeing the diplomatic implications of this? It would undermine the trust between much countries.

Well, I will certainly don't comment on this subject in particular, because I simply don't see a subject at all - I guess it's not practical to be worried about this scenario right now. It's too soon.
I just said this because I defend and I think it makes sense that everyone who wants to talk about this, should do it, regardless of the fact that it is European, Chinese, American, South American, or Russian.
 

Fenom21

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You're German commenting on American politics. Why do people do this? Same way people comment on what's considered freedom of speech in the US when they have hate speech laws in their countries. Or the people that comment on gun violence in the US when they live in a country that bans guns.
This is such an asinine statement.

I kind of agree with the second part of your point when it comes to non Americans getting involved internal American affairs, although it's usually just voicing opinions and nothing more. If it bothers you that much, then don't engage with non Americans (ie get off the internet).

But a war with China affects the whole world. So it's everyone's business.
 

Odysseus M Jones

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I have Chinese friends asking me if a war will start. Meanwhile there's no American even considering this as an option.
Strange, because I've not heard anything & my partner's Chinese in touch with HK daily.
The feedback I have is the West is pushing for compensation for releasing the virus, but no war.
Are your friends in the mainland?

As a Texan, low oil prices means millions of unemployed oil workers and a crashing of our state GDP.

It's a problem.
I hear you & I'm not unsympathetic to the plight of Texans or anyone affected.
The UK lost its car industry, shipbuilding, rail, steel, coal, aerospace etc, millions of jobs & communities haven't recovered decades later.
Even the mid East is diversifying, Qatar has gone gas and tourism.
Still, we shouldn't go to war for economic reasons even though historically that's the main reason.
 

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The feedback I have is the West is pushing for compensation for releasing the virus, but no war.
Are your friends in the mainland?
Yup.

Chinese generals have stated that nothing's off the table if they keep getting accused of corona. Implied threat is war.
 

Yzn

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Abu Ghazaleh said:

There will be war but not full on WW3. It's more of a rocket attacks between each other started by the U.S, and the reason is because the US wants china to sit on one table and divide the control of power over the world and be clear on who runs what.

As of now, China isn't willing to sit down, it just aims to increase its economical power with no restriction, which the US won't take.

As someone already mentioned American think tanks believe this, and Abu Ghazaleh says it's before October.
 

Odysseus M Jones

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Yup.

Chinese generals have stated that nothing's off the table if they keep getting accused of corona. Implied threat is war.
It could be, but nothing is ever off the table with Chinese, they are epicureans, that's what got us into this mess.

I just said this because I defend and I think it makes sense that everyone who wants to talk about this, should do it, regardless of the fact that it is European, Chinese, American, South American, or Russian.
But a war with China affects the whole world. So it's everyone's business
Ordinarily I'd agree, but this forum doesn't want politics or religion discussed.

And the way the OP framed this reeks of politics. It won't be long before terms like "libtard" appear on the thread.

But if we confine it to economics & business we'll be ok
 

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Classmate

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As of now, China isn't willing to sit down, it just aims to increase its economical power with no restriction, which the US won't take.
Well, be ready to have Europe on the "don't give a shit about China" mood, because Europe agreed to not invest a lot in manufacturing of pharmaceuticals and medical equipment if China could supply all continent, and do it cheaply, and it didn't happen.
There were A LOT of donations, but I don't know yet if it was enough.

So, don't be surprised if the determinant factor of who will be the superpower will be who is more beneficial to Europe.

Some kind of negotiating and political endeavours can exist, but leaving Europe, Japan and Russia off the table on something like that seems media-hysteria to me. No one is the centre of the world.
 
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Digamma

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This thread is absolutely bizarre.

Taking internal Chinese propaganda at face value?

Taking any media reporting as if it was speaking to actual intentions of nation-states?

Are you guys taking the piss?
 

kelvinfernandezm

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This is such an asinine statement.

I kind of agree with the second part of your point when it comes to non Americans getting involved internal American affairs, although it's usually just voicing opinions and nothing more. If it bothers you that much, then don't engage with non Americans (ie get off the internet).

But a war with China affects the whole world. So it's everyone's business.
Nope is because the views of people from other countries are twisted by the media. The believe whatever the media is talking about that's what's going on in the USA. For example this post a German guy is saying "we" but he doesn't even reside here. If he lived here he would know that no one even cares about those "war games" or the opinion of "think tanks."

He would know that more people are worried about the guy that got shot in Georgia, more worried about state re-openings and about the governor's attitudes of opening back again. No one is even talking about China here.

But they come here posting things about the USA from their point of view outside of the USA that's completely distorted by mainstream media.
 

Fenom21

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Nope is because the views of people from other countries are twisted by the media. The believe whatever the media is talking about that's what's going on in the USA. For example this post a German guy is saying "we" but he doesn't even reside here. If he lived here he would know that no one even cares about those "war games" or the opinion of "think tanks."

He would know that more people are worried about the guy that got shot in Georgia, more worried about state re-openings and about the governor's attitudes of opening back again. No one is even talking about China here.

But they come here posting things about the USA from their point of view outside of the USA that's completely distorted by mainstream media.
The media has been covering all of the things you mentioned in much more detail/volume than the subject of an armed conflict with China. The topic OP brought up is mainly covered by the fringes (youtubers, independent journos, sensationalist media).

You're countering your own point here.

Also, the fake news is a meme all over the western world now. So it's a bit condescending of you to just assume anyone outside the US is some MSM mesmerised dumbass. You should have a look at twitter, it's mostly Americans peddling MSM news.

Lastly, even though I don't come on here for political discussion, on an entrepreneurial forum such this, I choose to think that most people here are smart enough to not blindly follow any form of media - regardless of its political leanings.

I'm happy to accept that politics/religion threads may be a waste of time on a forum such as this, but criticising people for discussing specific issues simply based on their location is silly.

TLDR you're acting as if TMF forum is some exclusive American cool club, it's not.
 

jpn

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Nope is because the views of people from other countries are twisted by the media. The believe whatever the media is talking about that's what's going on in the USA. For example this post a German guy is saying "we" but he doesn't even reside here. If he lived here he would know that no one even cares about those "war games" or the opinion of "think tanks."

He would know that more people are worried about the guy that got shot in Georgia, more worried about state re-openings and about the governor's attitudes of opening back again. No one is even talking about China here.

But they come here posting things about the USA from their point of view outside of the USA that's completely distorted by mainstream media.
I largely agree with you. Many outside the US overestimates how little most people in the US care/interact with government on the federal level.

Having said that, the OP isn't talking about what the average US citizen thinks. He's asking if there could be war between the US and China. This has nothing to do with what the average US citizen thinks about war right now. The opinion of the people of a country and the opinion of its government are not the same thing.

Besides, considering recent wars, I'd guess that creating a pre-text and public support for one with world affairs the way they stand would be simple enough.
 

jpn

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We are in the middle of a trade war. Does anybody think we will see an actual war with China?
No. A hot war with China cannot be won. There is no scenario imaginable where any nation gets out ahead in a war with China.

Unless...

Maybe. A few politicians may be able to get ahead, and if the system is so broken that the selfish decisions of a few can initiate a chain of events that cause a hot war, it could happen. But still, everyone would come out a poorer.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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TLDR you're acting as if TMF forum is some exclusive American cool club, it's not.
No just that members keep their politics to their own countries.

[QUOTE="jpn, post: 876345, member:
Having said that, the OP isn't talking about what the average US citizen thinks. He's asking if there could be war between the US and China. This has nothing to do with what the average US citizen thinks about war right now.
[/QUOTE]

Asking about war I a public forum not asking about the opinion about war of the average citizen. Which one is it.
 

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Andreas Thiel

Andreas Thiel

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Nope is because the views of people from other countries are twisted by the media. The believe whatever the media is talking about that's what's going on in the USA. For example this post a German guy is saying "we" but he doesn't even reside here. If he lived here he would know that no one even cares about those "war games" or the opinion of "think tanks."
Maybe that is why I am asking!?

Did I state an opinion, or ask a question :(. I am just really worried because I can't come up with a more benign answer to the question "how else could this conflict play out?".

I am grateful to hear the opinions of people who can tell how likely or not it is that politicians could get a majority behind a war or not - if 10,000,000 jobs in the oil industry are lost.
The answer that nobody is currently even thinking about it is very comforting.

I am a little surprised that the question is considered laughable. I don't think "The Grand Chessboard" is Chinese propaganda ... but yes, didn't know politics are a nono. So I'll shut up.
 

Fenom21

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No just that members keep their politics to their own countries.
German soldiers have served and died in both Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001, neither of which were 'German' wars/politics. A potential conflict between US and China would directly affect the German economy.

Again, you counter your own point.

OP should discuss whatever he wishes, as long as he's within forum rules.

It's ironic that you bash the MSM but are so eager to thought police others on an internet forum. Hilarious.
 

Ing

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maybe some big politicians will send their cheap people to shoot each other, but for a nuclear war I think they are too cowardly/reasonable.

that I would say, if this was a political forum. Which is not.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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German soldiers have served and died in both Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001, neither of which were 'German' wars/politics. A potential conflict between US and China would directly affect the German economy.

Again, you counter your own point.

OP should discuss whatever he wishes, as long as he's within forum rules.

It's ironic that you bash the MSM but are so eager to thought police others on an internet forum. Hilarious.
How is asking others to keep politics to their own countries thought police? I'll believe a German speaking on German issues over an American speaking on German issues.
 

Yzn

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Never heard of them. Who is this person, and why does their view on this matter? Googled it but didn't clarify much.
Talal Abu Ghazaleh*

Read his bio and see in what positions he held in his life. Also he currently advises middle eastern country's leadership on economical plans and issues. He also runs the one of the leading Intellectual Property in the world.

That's why I thought what he says matters.
 

Fenom21

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How is asking others to keep politics to their own countries thought police? I'll believe a German speaking on German issues over an American speaking on German issues.
You're acting as though a US/China war is not a global topic, but simply American politics. Very strange.
 

Yzn

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How is asking others to keep politics to their own countries thought police? I'll believe a German speaking on German issues over an American speaking on German issues.
You're correct only if you're talking about internal affairs.

USA vs China is not internal affairs. It concerns the whole world. Especially business wise.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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You're acting as though a US/China war is not a global topic, but simply American politics. Very strange.
OMG so strange. I just don't like Europeans commenting on American politics that's it. The way Europeans live under the government's thumb makes me disregard their opinion when they talk about the USA.
 

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