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OFF-TOPIC Billionaires Explaining To You Why A College Degree Is Useless

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Argue

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Saw this video on world star. A lot of people in the comment section said that this video is useless. They then said college is useful because it gets you a well paying job.

#ScriptedLife
 

lewj24

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Consider that nearly all of the billionaires in that video either graduated from college or were at least accepted to well-known/prestigious universities (whether they finished or not)...that tells me that while they may not have needed to graduate college to become successful, they all were super smart and worked hard in school prior to college...

In fact, I love when people use Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg as examples of why a college degree isn't necessary -- I like to point out that if those two guys are the litmus test for what is and is not necessary to become a billionaire, then clearly the ability to GET INTO Harvard is important for a future billionaire... If you can't get accepted to Harvard, don't compare yourself to those guys... :)

BTW, I don't believe that college is a requirement for financial success, but I will point out the ridiculousness of someone who practically fails out of high school, sleeps until noon every day, goes out partying every night and then says, "If Bill Gates could become a billionaire without a college degree, so can I..."

(It's my guess that) They may have attended/graduated college but that might be why they say it's not that valuable. When they where 18 and following the scripted lifestyle they thought college was good. My guess is after college they realized how much more they needed to learn in order to be successful and realized college wasn't all it's cracked up to be. Today Mark Cuban reads at least 3 hours a day to keep up with his businesses. I doubt he studied that much in college. (Again I have no idea tho)

Oh and also when they attended college 30-50 years ago it was reasonably priced compared to today which might be another reason why they bad talk it.
 

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Doesn't add up. Isn't Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs listed on Forbes Powerful Men list? They obviously are successful dropouts..
think it says attended, not graduated....
 

Thoelt53

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Doesn't add up. Isn't Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs listed on Forbes Powerful Men list? They obviously are successful dropouts..
The graphic only mentions that they "attended college." Could be that they're classifying dropouts as well, seeing how they technically "attended college."

Like @JScott said, even if they dropped out of Harvard, or Standford, or Yale, they still had to have the ability and the fortitude to get accepted there in the first place.

With that being said, everyone's definition of "success" is different. To say that successful dropouts are a myth is misleading at best.
 

lewj24

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Absolutely. And I'd argue that anyone who is smart enough and who works hard enough to get accepted to Harvard and start a profitable business while at Harvard probably has the traits to drop out of Harvard and make a ton of money.

I'd also argue that 99% of the people who don't go to college don't fit that profile.

And again, I'm absolutely NOT saying that college is necessary to become rich/successful (it most certainly isn't)... I'm just saying that using people like Zuckerberg and Gates as an example of why college isn't necessary is simply illogical. I'm sure there are many hundreds/thousands of ten-millionaires who didn't go to college that can illustrate that point better than the couple of high-profile billionaires.
I agree with everything you're saying. I just wanted to point out that the graphic was false.

Clearly Cuban was all about becoming smarter whether through college or not. He said he would sneak into the MBA classes when he was an undergrad so he could get an MBA education for free until they caught him.

Basically, successful people are all about learning and so they want to go to college to learn but even if they don't they will still find a way to learn.
 

lewj24

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think it says attended, not graduated....
But it says "the myth of the successful dropout" you can't dropout unless you are attending in the first place....
 

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Ninjakid

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Consider that nearly all of the billionaires in that video either graduated from college or were at least accepted to well-known/prestigious universities (whether they finished or not)...that tells me that while they may not have needed to graduate college to become successful, they all were super smart and worked hard in school prior to college...

In fact, I love when people use Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg as examples of why a college degree isn't necessary -- I like to point out that if those two guys are the litmus test for what is and is not necessary to become a billionaire, then clearly the ability to GET INTO Harvard is important for a future billionaire... If you can't get accepted to Harvard, don't compare yourself to those guys... :)

BTW, I don't believe that college is a requirement for financial success, but I will point out the ridiculousness of someone who practically fails out of high school, sleeps until noon every day, goes out partying every night and then says, "If Bill Gates could become a billionaire without a college degree, so can I..."
This is an extremely good point, and one people often fail to realize.

And again, I'm absolutely NOT saying that college is necessary to become rich/successful (it most certainly isn't)... I'm just saying that using people like Zuckerberg and Gates as an example of why college isn't necessary is simply illogical. I'm sure there are many hundreds/thousands of ten-millionaires who didn't go to college that can illustrate that point better than the couple of high-profile billionaires.
One thing to point out is that Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates were raised in educated backgrounds, and while not rich, their respective families were already well off. People raised in that setting usually learn that education is important, whereas people from working classes often learn that just having a job is important.

So their going to university is likely more a result of the culture they were brought up in, and less to do with a conscious plan of using it to obtain billionaire status.
 

ZF Lee

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Although we hate degrees, there's no doubt that fields such as law, economics (number crunching for models) and sciences will need that degree.
SCRIPTED or not, they still will have a good framework on what to learn for the industry.

But billionaires didn't get to be billionaires because of degrees. They got there by being Fastlane...providing needs to a lot of people. And to get to a billion, you need millions worth of assets, sales or monetary worth or strength. And it doesn't always have anything to do with a degree.
But it says "the myth of the successful dropout" you can't dropout unless you are attending in the first place....
And anyway not all dropouts will read TMF/UNSCRIPTED or other similar materials.

Of course it's a myth. Why?
Success doesn't begins by dropping out. Dropping out is not the key to success, Fastlane aside.
Likewise, a degree isn't the sole key to success.

While you might have your cake and eat it too, there are lots of other ingredients to the recipe, and of course, as we know now, we find them along the way, be it in or out of college.

Think of this...why did @MJ DeMarco said:

THERE IS NO f*ckING LIST

While it means that we have no step by step processes, with every challenge so different in entrepreneurship, guess what. We don't need one! We don't need to be controlled or to obey lists or dictations by some other SCRIPT party for our success. We can choose, and make our own way and education.

Let's put it in an anology:
I used to bake for my girl.
My first dish was chocolate crumble.
Very simple, but you have to be careful with the prep of the chocolate mix. And the cookie base.

The first time had gaps and ends here and there.
What if I did not have enough chocolate? Maybe I might add more milk or cream.
Chocolate too boring? Add bananas. I did that.
No flour? I crushed cornflakes lol.

Turned out the first time was the best. When I remade the chocolate crumble a second time later, sticking to the book with no additions, with no lack of ingredients to get substitutes for, she said, 'The old is better'

There's lot of other steps to take, and various ways of execution. And who knows...they can be better than a degree.

Degree or not, up to us.

Not every Fastlane millionaire/billionaire was classified...so the report represents a minority of Fastlaners rather than a standard norm.

With that being said, everyone's definition of "success" is different. To say that successful dropouts are a myth is misleading at best.
Right. I have met people who are just happy to pass their exams with a credit and met people who work their a$$ off to be top in their field.

I'm going to say that for myths, a myth will stay a myth until you make it real.
But it's up to people....it's not as if they would like to personally and willingly make the myth become reality themselves.

I like to point out that if those two guys are the litmus test for what is and is not necessary to become a billionaire, then clearly the ability to GET INTO Harvard is important for a future billionaire... If you can't get accepted to Harvard, don't compare yourself to those guys...
Hyperrealities and the SCRIPT at work again....
Dear me....will everyone just stop trying to be Zuckerberg and Bill Gates?
Just go work, get your freedom and be yourself. Why worry all day about that?

But it's really sad to see people think of financial dominance or freedom in terms of emulating the big guys. It's like looking at prisoners who don't know what freedom is really all about. How could we....it's not that we learned freedom in school lol.
 

AgainstAllOdds

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I think you guys are missing the point.

The conversation in this thread is using statistics from 40 years ago to calculate whether college is worth it. Senators, Congressman, CEO's, Forbes powerful men... the average person on that list went to college 40 years ago.

The main takeaway I got from the video is that college is no longer worth it. It's a financial decision and today it's not worth investing in.

c61b36585.jpg


The cost of college has more than tripled in that time. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds a lot of debt:

OB-XN315_Number_E_20130517184849.jpg


And earnings haven't really increased:

nyfed_college_worth_it_2.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg



Back in the old days, people could work in the summers and pay off their college tuitions:

weeksoffulltimework_1.png


Now, you're pretty much f*cked.

The reason I shared the video is because I thought it provided a good thought pattern on why college is not worth it anymore as an investment TODAY. Yeah, it might have been worth it 40 years ago, but today the numbers have changed completely.
 

ZCP

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Attending university at the now inflated rates may not be worth the job you can get from it. But education is worth it. Knowledge is power. You may just have to 'shop around' to find a cheaper way to get that knowledge.

We are struggling with this one right now. Our oldest is 15. Owns two profitable businesses. Should he go to college?
 

Fukuokasan

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Attend to "the billionaire degree" they teach how to make billions. Oh f*ck! it doesnt exist ...
 

ApparentHorizon

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But it says "the myth of the successful dropout" you can't dropout unless you are attending in the first place....

The full paper is behind a paywall if you want to dig deeper: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13598139.2017.1302874

Prob also worth seeing who funded the research.

The main takeaway I got from the video is that college is no longer worth it. It's a financial decision and today it's not worth investing in.

Have you seen any stats on regular college/uni vs ivy leagues?

Few things I learned while in uni:
1. You should focus more on connections rather than "education"
2. If I'd had gone to community college, which was akin to the prices you posted (+scholarships, basically free), I would have completed the same degree
 

mikey3times

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I think others have said something similar, but there is a scripted way of attending college and an unscripted way. One is much more valuable, but takes a lot more effort. College can be worth every penny.

As with Buying A House Is Stupid, there is no right answer except what you decide is right for you.

I do think it is fascinating that Zuck found his Need while in college. (Rhetorical question...) Would Facebook be a thing if he hadn’t gone to college? Would he have known what college kids needed or wanted if he had never gone?
 

Envision

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Doesn't add up. Isn't Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs listed on Forbes Powerful Men list? They obviously are successful dropouts..

Of Harvard...
 

AgainstAllOdds

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Attending university at the now inflated rates may not be worth the job you can get from it. But education is worth it. Knowledge is power. You may just have to 'shop around' to find a cheaper way to get that knowledge.

The most valuable thing that you can learn is how to teach yourself. If you figure that out, then you're set for life.

We are struggling with this one right now. Our oldest is 15. Owns two profitable businesses. Should he go to college?

And as for your son, it looks like you guys have a tough decision on your hands. Main difference for you guys is that college is seen as less of an "investment", maybe even an opportunity cost. So you have to weigh how much the other factors matter (social, connections, experience, etc).

Have you seen any stats on regular college/uni vs ivy leagues?

Best Universities and Colleges | Payscale

Looking at mid-career salary is pretty good. But that doesn't give the full picture. Ivy Leagues are more expensive, but also have more financial aid. More factors to calculate in.

Personally though I think that going to a school like Harvard is overrated in terms of how much money you'll be making. Mid-career you're making $140,700 a year.

That's a good income. But would you really make less if you a) skipped college; b) apprenticed for someone like @458 making cold calls?

I strongly believe 4 years of sales is more beneficial than 4 years of Ivy League.

However, there's other factors to consider, the biggest being prestige. Society adores people that went to an "Ivy League". Society doesn't really adore someone that "cold calls".
 

jon.a

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However, there's other factors to consider, the biggest being prestige. Society adores people that went to an "Ivy League". Society doesn't really adore someone that "cold calls".
Society can kiss my a$$.
 

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MJ DeMarco

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I wrote about this in Unscripted...

Screen Shot 2017-09-22 at 9.09.57 AM.png

The old college argument about "Graduates make more over their lifetimes than their non-degreed counterparts" is statistical rubbish.

Why?

Because parents aren't gonna keep their book-smart teens away from college.

Likewise, if you have the aptitude and intelligence to be accepted into Harvard, Stanford, or Oxford, more than likely you can do very well without college. The key item of statistical relevance here is not that they DROPPED OUT, it's that they already had a propensity for high achievement.

The problem is when people use "I don't need a degree" and point to these billionaires when their life up to this point has been nothing but laziness and sloth.

The other factor in this is COST. To put it simply, college (outside of STEM stuff) just isn't worth the cost any longer.
 

MJ DeMarco

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throttleforward

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I'm waiting for the first billionaire business owner to declare that they are no longer considering formal education in their hiring processes, and instead are moving toward an algorithm-based evaluation method to find new hires. Frankly I'm shocked, given all the predictive computing power and tech startups in the hiring space, that more companies haven't done this.

Anyone who has witnessed the hiring process from inside a large organization knows that formal degree requirements are thoughtlessly and reflexively mandated, simply to weed people out and make the human review of applications easier. Thus driving demand for ever-higher degrees (backed by federally-insured, bankruptcy-protected loans).
 

amp0193

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I'm waiting for the first billionaire business owner to declare that they are no longer considering formal education in their hiring processes, and instead are moving toward an algorithm-based evaluation method to find new hires. Frankly I'm shocked, given all the predictive computing power and tech startups in the hiring space, that more companies haven't done this.

Anyone who has witnessed the hiring process from inside a large organization knows that formal degree requirements are thoughtlessly and reflexively mandated, simply to weed people out and make the human review of applications easier. Thus driving demand for ever-higher degrees (backed by federally-insured, bankruptcy-protected loans).

I definitely agree that there could be much better ways of evaluating candidates.

To play devil's advocate a bit: If your employee is saddled with college debt, they probably are going to need to keep the job you give them to pay their student loan bills. Maybe you get more long-term employees this way. Golden handcuffs.
 

Owner2Millions

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I wrote about this in Unscripted...

View attachment 16454

The old college argument about "Graduates make more over their lifetimes than their non-degreed counterparts" is statistical rubbish.

Why?

Because parents aren't gonna keep their book-smart teens away from college.

Likewise, if you have the aptitude and intelligence to be accepted into Harvard, Stanford, or Oxford, more than likely you can do very well without college. The key item of statistical relevance here is not that they DROPPED OUT, it's that they already had a propensity for high achievement.

The problem is when people use "I don't need a degree" and point to these billionaires when their life up to this point has been nothing but laziness and sloth.

The other factor in this is COST. To put it simply, college (outside of STEM stuff) just isn't worth the cost any longer.


But MJ what about lawyers, accountants and doctors? lol

On a serious note you could make the case that all STEM majors can be learnt on their own as well. I majored in CS and was going dual degree in EE but my school didnt let me(smh, they claimed they were too similar) anyway with the exception of the hands on lab stuff you could study the theory things on the internet. That includes all STEM majors. Now certain majors such as physics, math and chemical and bioengineering may be much more harder to understand but may still be doable. The main thing is the labs or "hands on" material.

I also agree with @AgainstAllOdds about self education. MJ you taught yourself to code and make several websites from start to finish but never stepped foot in a classroom for CS/CE
 

PedroG

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(It's my guess that) They may have attended/graduated college but that might be why they say it's not that valuable. When they where 18 and following the scripted lifestyle they thought college was good. My guess is after college they realized how much more they needed to learn in order to be successful and realized college wasn't all it's cracked up to be. Today Mark Cuban reads at least 3 hours a day to keep up with his businesses. I doubt he studied that much in college. (Again I have no idea tho)

Oh and also when they attended college 30-50 years ago it was reasonably priced compared to today which might be another reason why they bad talk it.

Agree. I'm currently in the process of finishing my master's which is computer science with an "entrepreneurship" option. I'm on the last "Entrepreneurship" course right now, and what you learn is completely pointless, and nothing that helps you actually apply anything to start a real business.

I've learned 100 times more by reading books with stuff I can actually apply to a real life scenario.

There's something wrong with the process. You can't learn business just by reading and taking tests. A degree in business should involve the creation of a real company.
 
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mikey3times

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Society adores people that went to an "Ivy League".

Funny. When I get a resume from a recent Harvard grad I throw it in the trash because my experience is they actually don’t know anything useful, but they think their degree gives them the credentials to run the company. Reading 1000 case studies is not the same as figuring out the solution to a real problem involving real people.

Give me an ambitious state-school grad over Ivy League any day.

Ugh. Sorry for the rant.
 

G-Man

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This somehow turned from one of many college bashing threads into a genuinely interesting debate. Thanks to @JScott and @AgainstAllOdds

As an irrelevant aside, @amp0193 is spot on
To play devil's advocate a bit: If your employee is saddled with college debt, they probably are going to need to keep the job you give them to pay their student loan bills. Maybe you get more long-term employees this way. Golden handcuffs.
I still remember the agitated look on my former a**hole boss's face when he realized I didn't have a penny in debt. I think he was worried I'd just up and leave one day... which I did, with no notice, about 6 mos later. After the debt conversation he was always trying to convince me to get a nicer car, or that since I was about to have a kid I needed to go buy a house.

My takeaway really,... is that student loans are a bad thing. College can be positive, especially if you're tuned to spot the BS you're being fed. I wasn't, and that's a story for another day.
 

eliquid

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Getting into Harvard has a lot more to do than grades or the "right stuff" to be a millionaire/success.

Ivy League Admissions Are a Sham: Confessions of a Harvard Gatekeeper

If you don't have the money, legacy parents, the right location, race, came from a good school system that offers the right extracurriculars, etc.. you simply will have a hard time getting in.

Your upbringing will have a ton of influence if you are even able to be privileged enough to get past an admissions review at Harvard. You don't get to control your upbringing.

Most of those getting into Harvard succeed later not because of their attitude/smarts, but because their families have the resources others do not so they can succeed. For those that went that are not in the top 3% of earners ( lower income that still got into Harvard ), the networking they did at Harvard with those who's parents were in the top 3% helps.

Example:
My dorm mates daddy might be CEO of Chase bank. Being his friend when he graduates and becomes VP of Chase can help me a lot even if I dropout.

Lets not get into athletic recruits....

There are a lot more factors in play for why those that got accepted into Harvard became successful later that have nothing to do at all with getting into Harvard.
 

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