What makes this legal?

[andrew m]

Lurking the forums and watching some television and got myself thinking. What makes it legal for a company to sell an item that is already being produced? I let me see if i can give you an example... The company "Sanyo" makes televisions but then in the same store "Sony" also makes the same exact television.. How exactly does that work? Is something like that possible to patent? Im sorry if this question is a little confusing just trying to get a grip on how the sales world works

 

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[Kak]

Simple... Either they are not the same exact television, the design is on license to the other company or someone is going to eventually get sued...

Patents for something as general as a TV are very very rare and most of the time very hard to enforce. Issuance and enforceability are two very different things.

Hope this helped...

 

[DeletedUser394]

What's your question exactly?

Why are 2 separate companies able to make similar (not identical) products?

I'm on an Acer and have an Asus right next to it. They have similar specs, but they aren't the same.

I guarantee Sanyo and Sony aren't making an identical TV unless they have an agreement in place to do so.

Anybody can make a chair for example, but if you make one with springs in it that launches you 10 feet in the air, or changes colours to match your mood, then you can more easily acquire patents for those modifications.

 

[Phones]

Same model, different brand = Private Labelling

But the example you refer, they usually have some differences.

 

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[Vigilante]

I have manufactured televisions before. There are several technology licenses that manufacturers pay to license holders to use certain aspects of licensed technology. If you try and import a television to the United States that has not paid the appropriate license fees, the goods can be seized and destroyed at customs.

 

[RazorCut]

The company "Sanyo" makes televisions but then in the same store "Sony" also makes the same exact television.. How exactly does that work? Is something like that possible to patent? Im sorry if this question is a little confusing just trying to get a grip on how the sales world works

In the new global economy it makes sense to collaborate in order to cut costs. It also means there can seem to be a lot of smoke and mirrors unless you know what relationships exist.

Sony had partnerships with both Sharp and Samsung to produce TV screens. Samsung made the Retina screens for Apple even though it competed with it's own range of smart phones. Panasonic own Sanyo. But it's not just the electronic sector, it's everywhere.

There is a lot of collaboration in the car market due to the heavy burden of R&D and tooling. There are many car brands including Ford, Seat, VW, Skoda, Toyota, even Aston Martin (the Aston Martin Cygnet is basically just a re-badged Toyota at a hugely inflated price) that do this. They call it “Badge Engineering”.

In Europe washing machines come under a plethora of brand names but I think the vast majority of them are made in 2 factories and if you ever need a spare part many brands are cross compatible.

 

[RazorCut]

I have manufactured televisions before.

You never cease to amaze me.

 

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[Vigilante]

You never cease to amaze me.

We did a license deal with the Akai brand. Bought Samsung plasma televisions off the Samsung plasma line in Korea and Hong Kong, rebadged them as Akai, and brought them to the United States market. 20% cheaper than Samsung for the identical television as Samsung was marketing at the time under the Samsung brand. Samsung USA hated us, but customers loved us. Primarily through Sam's Club and Costco, we quickly went from $0 to $100m in 3 years. We then got into disputes with everyone from Samsung to the brand holder (Akai) and lost the license. The license holder thought they could do what we did, and they tried to take over US operations. They took the project from $100m back to zero in about six months.

Everyone tends to get greedy when the money starts rolling in.

 

[Vigilante]

When we were finalizing the Akai license contract, we were in a smoke filled executive board room in Hong Kong at 4AM. Running on zero sleep, zero food, and jet lagged, we had to get a deal done. Unbenounced to our negotiating adversaries, in less than 72 hours we had already scheduled production of the new product, using their brand name. We had to get a deal done. No choice. They didn't know it, but we were negotiating with a gun to our heads. The production (millions of dollars) was already happening. We couldn't stop it. We had to get the deal done.

We got the deal done. Gave up way more than we should have. Very unpleasant experience. It yielded great results, but we were sweating (literally and figuratively) in the final hour trying to get rights to use the Akai brand.

 

[James Fake]

The license holder thought they could do what we did, and they tried to take over US operations. They took the project from $100m back to zero in about six months.

Awesome story. Shame... When will people learn to focus on what they do best and only that.

 

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[Vigilante]

Never. MOST successful license deals end the same way. The cycle is about 4 years. People get greedy.

We did a similar deal with Pioneer. Lasted about 4 years. Another deal with Daewoo International. 3 years. And another deal with Samsung to introduce CCTV to the United States. A little over three years.

It always sounds great on the front side. Then, people get greedy and think they can simply cut out "the middle man" not realizing that in some cases... they themselves are the dispensable link.

 

[Vigilante]

At our peak, we had Akai's flat panel marketshare to nearly 10%. Didn't last long... but it was a hell of a ride in a short window of time.

 

[RazorCut]

We did a license deal with the Akai brand. Bought Samsung plasma televisions off the Samsung plasma line in Korea and Hong Kong, rebadged them as Akai, and brought them to the United States market. 20% cheaper than Samsung for the identical television as Samsung was marketing at the time under the Samsung brand. Samsung USA hated us, but customers loved us. Primarily through Sam's Club and Costco, we quickly went from $0 to $100m in 3 years. We then got into disputes with everyone from Samsung to the brand holder (Akai) and lost the license. The license holder thought they could do what we did, and they tried to take over US operations. They took the project from $100m back to zero in about six months.

Fascinating.

At our peak, we had Akai's flat panel marketshare to nearly 10%. Didn't last long... but it was a hell of a ride in a short window of time.

That's the one thing that our generation has to suffer that our forbearer's 100 years ago didn't. Life cycles and market places burn so much faster these days. Difficult to think of a business you can start today and think with some certainly that you will be doing the same thing in 20 years time.

 

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[Vigilante]

Think about our grandparents generation. My wife's grandfather worked 50 years for Proctor and Gamble. Retired with a pension, and an annual Christmas basket full of company products.

Doesn't exist any more. People are dispensable. The average person will have not only several jobs in a lifetime, but spanning multiple and in many cases unrelated industries.

Free agency. Anyone that thinks there is job security working for someone else is delusional.

 

[RazorCut]

Anyone that thinks there is job security working for someone else is delusional.

Yes, so true. I think the last recession pretty much spread those words to most of those with their heads still buried in the sand. Can't be many left in sweet ignorance.