The Cyprus Situation

[andviv]

Well as a canadian citizen I can establish residency in any low tax, no tax country and only pay taxes on income earned in said country (in this case 0% or close to it).

So I take it you are planning to move to one of those, correct? Pretty cool.

Flat tax does not mean low tax though.

I can only think of maybe one or two of those countries where I'd like to spend more than half a year.

 

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[DeletedUser394]

So I take it you are planning to move to one of those, correct? Pretty cool.

Flat tax does not mean low tax though.

I can only think of maybe one or two of those countries where I'd like to spend more than half a year.

My top tax rate here is 39% which I think is too high, especially because I want nicer weather, so 180 days in paradise would be perfect for me. Basically will live in a warmer location during the winter and work back in Canada during the summer months.

A possible structure I'm considering: Incorporate in the Caymans, get permanent residency in Panama, while retaining my canadian citizenship. That way I pay almost nothing, and am free to travel and do whatever. There's a lot of options, which is great.

Yup flat tax definitely doesn't mean low tax, but a lot of flat tax places are as low as 9% or 10%. For the flat taxes, it would be more on principal. Let's say I think a flat tax is fair, and I don't like paying 39% in taxes (what I'm paying currently) on my income when I know that most of my peers pay little to nothing, then I'd be in favour of moving to a flat tax place, because I view it as being more fair and equitable for all.

 

[theag]

its F*cking socialism.

but: Cyprus parliament rejects bank levy - FT.com

The political turmoil on the crisis-hit island deepened when it emerged that Michael Sarris, Cypriot finance minister, had tendered his resignation – only for the president to reject it.

:smash:

 

[Astute]

This is nothing more than theft from savers (and Russians).

I think this is the start of the collapse of the EU. There is a lot of negative sentiment in the UK about the EU, probably the highest it has been for decades. I think the Germans are starting to wake up soon. It will have massive effects on European trade / immigration etc if it all goes tits up, so plenty of opportunity for the savvy. The same thing happened in the last years of the Soviet Union and that propelled some people to massive wealth, wouldn't be surprised if it happened again.

 

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[DeletedUser2]

Oh but Europe isn't done yet. There's a couple major countries left yet.

Zen,

Have they found a way too keep from losing bitcoins if your counter crashes?

you can burn to a cd and store in a deposit box

a quick article
http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html

also the US response, today

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...anges-must-comply-with-money-laundering-laws/

 

[CEBenz]

you can burn to a cd and store in a deposit box

Now that's an interesting concept. That opens up a world of possibilities.

 

[Pinnacle]

Ayn Rand was right. She just happened to call it over 60 years ago.

Voters need to be careful what they wish for.

 

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[SeanKelly]

I've known about bit coins and bit coin mining for quite a while. It's shocking that last time I looked at them they were only $13 a piece

 

[infinitus]

I think the two movies American Psycho and Eyes Wide Shut explain the situation with the banking cartel perfectly, 50% deranged psychopathic yuppies and 50% old money occult secret societies lol

I think there is great opportunity in forex to bet against the euro, as investors flee into supposed safe havens like the swiss franc, aussie dollar and not really safe haven but perceived as anyway ;US dollar. One thing im betting on is the oligarchs are corrupt to the core and will continue their gradual attempt to steal money and i believe many euro banks will collapse and bank runs will happen, as cash reserves are at historic all time lows. Gold and silver will eventually snap out of their artificially suppressed shorting positions by elite banks like JP Chase etc. This massive ponzi scheme is way out of control with the fiat money printing so they are completely rich enough, the next is the roll out of their deranged world government agenda.... im sure they will crash the markets to steal the wealth of the middle class and buy up the assets on the cheap, so i wouldnt be too overleveraged in real estate at this point in time and have some gold ,silver, food, guns as insurance policy...

 

[andviv]

cash reserves are at historic all time lows

Didn't know this. Sources?

My understanding was that banks have lots of cash sitting there and access to many more billions as needed. I have not validated either with real data though.

So, shorting banks is also a logical move, no?

I think there is great opportunity in forex to bet against the euro, as investors flee into supposed safe havens like the swiss franc, aussie dollar and not really safe haven but perceived as anyway ;US dollar.

Great information. What are you doing these days then? Keeping your money in AUS sounds like the logical thing for you to do based on what you describe.

 

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[CEBenz]

So, shorting banks is also a logical move, no?

Put options would be safer than shorting

 

[andviv]

Put options would be safer than shorting

Is this how you do it? --complete newbie in regards to shares and trading.

Care to share what moves are you playing these days?

 

[GPM]

Also a newbie here, but aren't there some Bear funds against the US dollar out there? Negative ETF's or something.

I think that owning silver and gold is also a wise bet, the real physical thing, not the paper versions.

 

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[CEBenz]

Is this how you do it? --complete newbie in regards to shares and trading.

Care to share what moves are you playing these days?

I'm not presently due to being too busy with other stuff but its like this:

When you short a stock, in essence, you sell off someone else's stock at that price in hopes that it drops and you can buy it back at a cheaper price and return it to them. But if the stock price goes up, your exposure is virtually unlimited. If the stocks moves from say $20 to $50 a share, you're on the hook for the difference.

Now put options give you the right but no obligation to sell a stock at a given price. So if you had put option contracts in the above situation, you couldn't lose more than you paid for the contracts but you still gain the advantage of a value increase in the value of the options if the value of the stock moved from $20 down to $5 a share.

That's a very rudimentary explanation.

 

[BeingChewsie]

Cyprus Banks To Remain Closed Until Next Week As Nation Seeks Russian Rescue

Now the banks will be closed until next week and they want to nationalize pensions to grab the money semi-government corporations are holding in their pension funds.

No good is coming out of this.

Sue

 

[Amail]

Put options would be safer than shorting

That's the kind of opportunity I was asking about!

 

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[Jake]

"My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost." :tdown:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292

 

[Rickson9]

All depositors are unsecured creditors of the bank. Deposits are not risk free bundles of cash. Deposits are loaned out. Nothing is risk free. Nothing. Just because an individual believes something is risk free doesn't make it true. And just because the risk is tiny doesn't mean that it can't happen.

This is a fundamental risk of depositing money in a bank. It's not some new and unknown risk. Unsecured creditors just haven't been asked to take a haircut alongside bond and stock holders that we've forgotten that it is possible.

It's not theft any more than bond and stock holders being 'robbed'.

Cyprus bank deposits vs. GDP

Deposits over 2.5x the entire country's entire GDP. Ridiculous. What did unsecured creditors think would happen if the economic crap hit the fan for Cyprus?

Most likely they weren't thinking about it at all.

 

[PopEmersen]

I wasn't worried earlier this year and last year when there was talk of hyper inflation and everything else......but this is different. This is desperation in it's purest form. This worries me.

 

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[H. Palmer]

The problem with Cyprus is not Cyprus, but the euro and indirectly the European Union.

The euro is nothing more than an outcome of Brussels centralistic ideology. In principle there is nothing wrong with a common currency.
But they allowed countries into the euro that couldn't meet the strict EU financial rules such as the cap on the budget deficit and on the loans/GDP ratio. Such as Greece and Cyprus.

In addition the differences in economic structure and culture between the north and the south are such that the benefits will never be distributed equally. The south will always need a weak currency (debt mentality), the north will need a strong currency (savings mentality).

They defend the euro with the argument that the dollar is a common currency too. Because the real agenda is to emulate and become the equal of the United States. In principle there is no argument against that, but the problem is it doesn't work. And they are sticking their heads in the sand.

This is going to get far far worse.

 

[theag]

Shit will really hit the fan after the German elections in September. This is just the beginning.

 

[theag]

I wonder what GlobalWealth thinks about the situation.. I bet he's pretty busy right now.

 

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[H. Palmer]

Why so? Seems to me the German government will be at its strictest in the run up to the election, and afterward will relax its attitude. So what do you mean?

 

[SalmonNBerries]

Why so? Seems to me the German government will be at its strictest in the run up to the election, and afterward will relax its attitude. So what do you mean?

Relaxing its attitude also probably means eventually writing down Greek debt owned by official institutions, which will possibly create a lot of uncertainty and volatility.

To others: Cyprus is a significant event but I would advise caution against trying to bet on the fallout. Timing is very very tricky, people were very bearish on the Euro last week due to continued contraction in the economy, repercussions from Cyprus etc yet after Thursday's European Central Bank meeting, Euro/USD rose over 2%. If we look at the ranges the Euro moves in, it usually takes months just to move 6-7%, so getting stuck with a 2% loss is pretty major(especially if you used leverage). Your original projection might come true in 3 months or 6 months but how much volatility can you stand within that time period? The repercussions might materialize for European banks in a few months and for US banks a few months after, however your puts might have expired worthless by then.

Reminds me of an old friend of mine who was long Direxion Daily Financial Bear 3X Shares (FAZ) in 2009. Basically it was a leveraged bear bet on financial. You can see the chart here:Direxion Financial Bear 3X Shar ETF Chart - Yahoo! Finance, it's worse than a Cyprus bank account.

I'm not advising against speculation, I speculate too, but try to stick with your strengths.