Mentorship Job: Negotiation Advice

[smartmoney]

Hello,

I'm relatively new to the forum, but have been a lurker for a while.

I graduate from college in May (computer science, math) and have decided that I want to work for a fastlaner's startup to learn as much as I can before diving into my own business. (The fastlaner has been successful with several other companies; this company is his latest business move). The tech startup gives me the chance at awesome learning of both business and tech skills. I have a great relationship with the fastlaner (worked for him 2 years ago and we hit it off)

He offered me a job with 60k base salary. I'm psyched to work with him; I like the offer and would accept it, but I am deciding whether it makes sense to ask for the possibility of equity and 65k. I don't have any idea what others in the company make and can't get access to this info. I would mainly negotiate because I want the experience of negotiation and don't want to come across as a pushover, not because I need the money.

Keeping in mind that I want to be a fastlaner (I am not using this as a stepping stone into a career), does it make sense to negotiate? I really appreciate any responses.

 

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[exige]

Equity at this stage would be a gift. I wouldn't ask for equity until you've gained some experience and made yourself invaluable to the business.

 

[mentalic]

If you are really really invaluable to him, and he will have a hard time to find someone else to do the job and he trusts you then you can ask for equity. However, it wouldn't sound too fair to ask for a highest salary and equity. It would sound better to ask for a little smaller salary and equity.

 

[JEdwards]

What are you bringing to the table that would warrant Equity?

Also, if you want to really learn how to nego you should be asking for $120k. I would have zero respect for a 65k nego after I offered 60k..

You are in a good position some people would work for free.... Good Luck.

 

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[DennisD]

Yeah, I know some people that would take the job for free,
and MANY other people that would take the opportunity for less than half that.

 

[smartmoney]

Thanks for the input to all. I am just considering negotiating because I don't want to appear like a pushover. Do you all, especially those who are employers, think it's odd for an employee not to make a counter offer?

 

[LibertyForMe]

I would accept the offer, work SUPER HARD, and then ask for a substantial raise in 6 months or something. Then when you ask you can show him all the things you have done.

 

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[mentalic]

Thanks for the input to all. I am just considering negotiating because I don't want to appear like a pushover. Do you all, especially those who are employers, think it's odd for an employee not to make a counter offer?

No, it's not odd. It is the kind of counter offer that matters.

 

[Kak]

You have basically no negotiating leverage. Leverage is rare in employment arrangements. I would venture to say he is probably offering you much more than you would be getting elsewhere.

Whats 5k a year? Bullshit.

Take the job if you want to "learn for a while" and risk ending up comfortable where you are. Start a business now if you have the balls.

 

[DennisD]

You have basically no negotiating leverage. Leverage is rare in employment arrangements. I would venture to say he is probably offering you much more than you would be getting elsewhere.

Whats 5k a year? Bullshit.

Take the job if you want to "learn for a while" and risk ending up comfortable where you are. Start a business now if you have the balls.

Or have the self discipline to live off 30K and put another 30K towards your fastlane business?

30K will buy you an outsourced SEO, 2 Content producers, Web Developer, Social Media Manager.. working for you fulltime 8 hours a day 5 days a week. What kind of business can you build by guiding them to do work you direct them towards?

 

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[DeletedUser2]

Offer to work for him for free for 6 months. if you have a chance to get some equity...



Z

 

[AmyQ]

Thanks for the input to all. I am just considering negotiating because I don't want to appear like a pushover. Do you all, especially those who are employers, think it's odd for an employee not to make a counter offer?

It is far more odd for an employee to counter for equity. Exchanging your labor or time = a salary. Not equity. It seems like many people think that because they work for a start up, they are entitled to equity, in addition to a guaranteed market rate salary.

Equity is typically reserved for:
1. Co-founders who are not getting a guaranteed salary
2. Employees who are being compensated in equity because the company cannot afford to pay them market rates
3. People who are bringing more than labor to the table (think access to media, investors, clients, etc)
4. Investors who buy equity

ETA:
You mention that you don't know what others at the company are making. I would argue that this is not relevant to the market rate for your skill set, which is what you should be focusing on. Look at job postings in your area to find out what the market rate for your skill set/experience/similar jobs is.

 

[smartmoney]

Thanks to all for the responses.

I accepted the offer today. I couldn't be more psyched to get started on my fastlane road!

 

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[snowbank]

I am deciding whether it makes sense to ask for the possibility of equity and 65k.

If you want the job for money, get more. If you want the job to learn, focus on that. Knowledge is insanely more valuable than $5k. I cringe when I hear aspiring entrepreneurs fighting over pennies when they have opportunities to learn.

Also: re: equity— unless you bring something awesome to the table, you probably won't be taken seriously. Who knows, maybe you'll get an insanely small sliver depending on the situation.

Fwiw, I'd be more likely to go the route Dale suggested if you are really serious about learning. Tell them you don't want the money, but you want to learn for free. What will happen is you'll be included in a lot of conversations you wouldn't have been included in, and they'll be much more open with you about what they're doing/why they're doing it, since they know that's what you came on for. They will have a different level of respect for you and the reward will be increased learning that paid employees will not experience.(assuming you pick the right person to work for)