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How to be faster than a Ferrari for less money than a Honda Civic

Is Bob Dylan right? Does everyone secretly like motorcycles, deep down?

  • YEAH.. vrooooomm.... braah brah brah vraaaaaaaooooomm..

    Votes: 19 67.9%
  • No way, man, those things annoy me so much. Let me explain why..

    Votes: 9 32.1%

  • Total voters
    28

Young-Gun

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Motorcycles.

"Yeah well, we all like motorcycles, to some degree." - Bob Dylan

Here's what I know about mine:

  • It is absurdly fast
  • It is beautiful beyond measure (not the one in my profile pic, which is also beautiful)
  • It is loud and annoys nearby foot-traffic, however many of my neighbors love it (see #1 and #2)
  • It is fun
  • It is fun
  • It takes me out of my mind and makes me whoop and holler, it's so fun
  • Relieves my stress like none other
  • I enjoy learning mechanics of it and wrenching on it; saves money (sorta) and is fun and cool
  • Girls love it. No matter what they say at first. Nine out of Ten. And the 10th one I'm not interested in. Therefore, since I love girls and I love saving time, it's a win-win (all respect, ladies and girls :)
  • It is dangerous but actually not much more than riding a bicycle in traffic
  • Everyday life has many dangers equal to that of riding a motorcycle
Some reasons motorcycling can be considered fastlane or at least advantages over "ordinary slowlane":

1) I own my business, and my commuting miles are deducted at approximately the rate of a SMALL VAN, while I'm getting double or triple the mileage on my tiny 350-lb bike. Therefore, my beautiful Italian sport motorcycle basically pays for its own gas in tax deductions each month since I ride it to work every day, even in the rain, because I love it so much

2) I love fast cars, but to get equivalent performance (power, handling, braking) to my bike, I would need to increase my spending.. by a factor of about 30x. It never gets old, knowing (and often demonstrating) I can smoke anything on four wheels but a Bugatti Veyron. And a Veyron can't do a wheelie.

3) Since it's a personal passion of mine, incorporating it into my commute to the office means I get to enjoy one of my favorite life passions, twice per work day, at a bare minimum - no matter what else I do, even if I work like a dog, I have to enjoy myself twice each day or I can't get to and from work and my house :p

4) Possible lifestyle business when old (imagine me when I'm 60, on a huge cruising bike, leading AARP-retiree bikers on bike tours around the Southwest). I consider this somewhat Fastlane because after I earn all my cheese from my youthful hustle, it would be cool to stay a business owner and work in a field I'm truly passionate about (like motorcycle travel)

Some reasons motorcycling might actually be a little slowlane:

1) Another set of expensive toys to buy, consumerism to indulge. Huge secondary market for lust-inducing gear

2) Not the most practical thing - pretty hard to move a desk, for example, on a sportsbike - although I'm sure someone's done it... on YouTube ;)

3) Danger - not gonna be cool if I get seriously injured while riding. However, I have done my own assessments and statistical research, and learned: The dangers of motorcycling are highly overstated in pop culture.
I've done my research, and the vast majority (80%+) of motorcycling accidents fall into one, two, or all of these three categories:
1) Rider intoxication
2) Rider less than a year of experience
3) Beginning of the riding season after time off

I believe that the glory of my motorcycling experience is an example of how Fastlane-style thinking can reveal the gold buried underneath the mud of "popular opinion."

Also, other life dangers are UNDER-estimated relative to motorcycles. Did you know bicycling is 5x more dangerous than walking??? But people ride bicycles freely...

I was walking on a narrow street sidewalk yesterday and an idiot in a Mitsubishi almost lept the curb and killed me right there. Walking on the sidewalk almost killed me yesterday.

Want to know something funny? Two days ago, I had a small single-vehicle motorcycle crash coming up my favorite tight mountain curve and pushing my bike hard. Forgot I had luggage bags on the back and I washed out my rear end because I was leaned over too far (GOD I love motorcyling hahahahahaha bwahahhaa). Basically I was a BOSS up until the moment my fat-a$$ luggage starting rubbing the pavement and then we went down with the bike on top of me (but it slid off me right away, the bike slides farther then the person does in a crash)

The funny thing: I was less scared during the motorcycle crash than I was when I saw that Mitsubishi coming at me on the sidewalk. Hard to believe this unless you've been there, but at least with the crash I knew: a) the mistake was mine. I could do better next time b) I've been in crashes before, this one's not a big one. c) I am learning my mechanics, I can learn to repair whatever damage there is.

Vs. that car leaping the curb... I have no control over these fools around me. Only the fool that I am. Motorcycling teaches you to control your inner fool... and sometimes... to unleash it.

Anyway, I love motorcycling with a passion.

Ever since the bug bit me about 3-4 years ago, it's been one of my driving motivations, along with music, and simple financial success, freedom, luxury, and travel.

Bikes run the gamut from cheap-as-$*(#* to the finest, lightest carbon-fiber and aircraft-titanium available. And they all fascinate me.

Fastlane or no, this sort of the stuff is the reason I'm glad to be alive. I hope I'm riding till they put me in the ground, and if anyone is ever in the Hill Country and wants to hit the road, I'll be there just say the word ;)
 
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throttleforward

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When I was an EMT I responded to my fair share of motorcycle accidents. The thing I didn't like about them was invariably the accident was either cause by someone else not seeing the motorcycle and hitting it, or something stupid like hitting a rock. One guy in particular was coming down a mountain, dropped the bike and had a degloving injury on his hand and arm (where all his skin was peeled back like those long formal lady gloves). He said it was because he hit a patch of road sand/grit in a turn. His buddies behind him verified the story. It seems like there is such little margin for error, and that error more often than not it seems has nothing to do with you, and your body will absorb substantial amounts of energy in any crash senario.

So basically I wish I had the balls to ride one, but I'm a wimp. However, I fly small planes and have no qualms about that, even though they have the same mortality rate as motorcycle riding, so go figure.
 

TrendSettersInc

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Just get a Tesla Model S. Upfront costs are still cheaper than a Ferrari, but backend savings are Phenomenal at about $60 a month to charge, 265 mile range on the P85 and no oil changes and all the other service bs besides tires and bringing it in for checks from time to time.

Plus the thing is faster than a Aston Martin Rapide, with 415 hp and 443 lbs of torque equivalent. Also the safest car on the road!
 

Young-Gun

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When I was an EMT I responded to my fair share of motorcycle accidents. The thing I didn't like about them was invariably the accident was either cause by someone else not seeing the motorcycle and hitting it, or something stupid like hitting a rock. One guy in particular was coming down a mountain, dropped the bike and had a degloving injury on his hand and arm (where all his skin was peeled back like those long formal lady gloves). He said it was because he hit a patch of road sand/grit in a turn. His buddies behind him verified the story. It seems like there is such little margin for error, and that error more often than not it seems has nothing to do with you, and your body will absorb substantial amounts of energy in any crash senario.

So basically I wish I had the balls to ride one, but I'm a wimp. However, I fly small planes and have no qualms about that, even though they have the same mortality rate as motorcycle riding, so go figure.
You make a really good point, and as an EMT I know your experience is totally different than mine.

Unlike many motorcyclists, I prefer to confront this issue head-on and I'm thankful for being reminded of it.

In fact, I've gone down at least twice when "surface conditions" were the problem - being leaned over, at country-lane speed, on a semi-rutted road, and then the nail in the coffin being gravel under the front wheel.

BUT - I should have seen it coming. Really. You have to ride "as if" the worst-possible situation was just a hair outside your frame of sight.

I imagine it is much, much like flying - always plan for the worst situation. Expect it at any moment. Not only will you be ready to leap into action, you'll also be more cautious and give yourself more margin for error. And then, best of all when things go perfectly right, it's like a vacation-within-a-vacation.

As you say - planes are about equally as dangerous! Yet, because you are more familiar with the risks of one, and perhaps because flying aligns with your passion more you are more accepting of it (I love the idea myself, my dad and grandads were all pilots and motorcycling is like my "connection" to them)

Gear for riding is essential - I spent more on my first set of gear than I did on my first bike. My jacket+helmet+gloves+boots cost me more than my first car.

That said, I can wear the jacket+boots whenever I want and get stud-points, so 60% of that expense does double-duty as fashion.

I'd like to believe that some of the accidents you've seen involved less-than-top-of-the-line gear. I only accept the best for my own skin ;)

All that said - it is dangerous. And that's part of why it's so fun, and so cool, on a level that I can't put anything else on, except for other extreme sports and risky ventures like flying, skiing, parasailing, wakeboarding etc.

And like starting a business. Because to take the risk and win gives you goosebumps. And it's all about the frickin' goosebumps.
 
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Young-Gun

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Just get a Tesla Model S. Upfront costs are still cheaper than a Ferrari, but backend savings are Phenomenal at about $60 a month to charge, 265 mile range on the P85 and no oil changes and all the other service bs besides tires and bringing it in for checks from time to time.

Plus the thing is faster than a Aston Martin Rapide, with 415 hp and 443 lbs of torque equivalent. Also the safest car on the road!
The Tesla is a gorgeous car. I loved the Lotus-based prototypes even more :) One of my favorites. Becoming extremely common around Austin though, and for me 50% of the vehicle's purpose is to stand out and get noticed.. to be different. I have a good old-fashioned boyhood-style fascination with exotics just because they're exotic.

Or, there are electric motorcycles in the works nowadays ;D

I think I'm just not a very safe person...
 

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My jacket+helmet+gloves+boots cost me more than my first car.

Aside from responding to violent scenes and people hopped up on meth and stuff, one of the most dangerous situations an EMT can face is trying to cut the leathers off a motorcycle rider. It's recommended that you do it quickly while the patient is unconcious. :)
 

Young-Gun

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Aside from responding to violent scenes and people hopped up on meth and stuff, one of the most dangerous situations an EMT can face is trying to cut the leathers off a motorcycle rider. It's recommended that you do it quickly while the patient is unconcious. :)

Damn dude I believe that. But still I'm honestly trying to imagine these accidents.. They must involve flames... I feel like you're seeing the results of 140 mph+ squid ("squirly kid" idiots) on the freeway,

My accidents have all been in low-speed corners of low-quality road surfaces. I can't imagine how dumb you must be to get in a motorcycle accident so bad that your leathers are melted to your skin. Like, that either involves multi-vehicle collisions or speeds at which friction melts leather (my god, that's definitely in the high triple-digit speeds because I've seen pro motorcycle racers crash in a slide at 120 mph and walk it off or even hop back on and try to get back in the race)

I don't doubt that motorcycle accidents are extremely serious.. when they happen. That's part of the reason they get so much sensationalistic press.. a motorcycle accident is spectacular.. but 95% of them are predictable and preventable. Just like being in a car.

You don't go out driving constantly thinking of the time you saw a dead guy in a car accident, do you? But you know grisly, flesh-melting accidents are happening every day... every hour around the world.. to somebody... in a soccer-mom minivan, or a Tesla Model S, or a Bugatti, or an Accord or a Porsche or a Harley-Davidson.

Deep and honest respect of motorcycles and their dangers is mandatory - oppressive fear about "the worst could happen", however, is antithetical to the activity ;)

It's the same as rockclimbing, soccer league, kickboxing, mountain biking, snowboarding, skeet-shooting, carpentry, blah blah blah

"I saw a dude who lost his entire hand to fireworks. Now I hide under my bed on the fourth of July."

Hehe, just teasing ;D
 
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throttleforward

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I can't imagine how dumb you must be to get in a motorcycle accident so bad that your leathers are melted to your skin.

We are supposed to expose all body parts that may have been injured. That's why EMT's carry those funny looking scissors (called trauma shears). When you slide down the road at 20mph on your back, we are supposed to cut your pants, jacket, shirt and boots off. Because if we don't how do we know whether that arm pain under your left sleeve is caused by road rash, or because your ulna is sticking out of your skin?

So we are charged with destroying all the leathers in order to expose your body and examine it. It's not a happy scene. In fact I've had patients refuse to go to the hosital and sign medical and legal waivers just because we wanted to cut their already scuffed-up leathers. I've never seen melted leathers - that'd be a whole nother ballgame!
 

Young-Gun

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We are supposed to expose all body parts that may have been injured. That's why EMT's carry those funny looking scissors (called trauma shears). When you slide down the road at 20mph on your back, we are supposed to cut your pants, jacket, shirt and boots off. Because if we don't how do we know whether that arm pain under your left sleeve is caused by road rash, or because your ulna is sticking out of your skin?

So we are charged with destroying all the leathers in order to expose your body and examine it. It's not a happy scene. In fact I've had patients refuse to go to the hosital and sign medical and legal waivers just because we wanted to cut their already scuffed-up leathers. I've never seen melted leathers - that'd be a whole nother ballgame!
Ah makes more sense. Also this made me laugh, I was predicting the second paragraph (in the sense that my first thought was, IF YOU CUT MY BEAUTIFUL LEATHERS OFF ME I WILL BE SO SAD :((((((

***WARNING GRISLY DESCRIPTION AHEAD SKIP THE NEXT PARAGRAPH IF YOU DON"T WANT****
But, can I not make a similar argument for cars.. for boating.. "we had to cut the melted seatbelt off him and remove the windshield from his face.." "We had to save his chopped arm from the bottom of the lake and sew it back on.."

These things stick in our mind because they are so extreme. As I rode more and more I realized, if motorcycling was as dangerous as we all "thought" and "heard" it was, then basically every motorcyclist on the road would be dead. I ride alot probably averaging 30-40 hours per week on the road and so far I'm fine.. it's an "everyday activity" for me even though I'm ever-vigilant and I never want to become numb to what I'm doing (otherwise what would be the point?)

Luckily, the greatest thing for me is the state of total concentration, of self-forgetting, becoming involved and centered in my body and the machine, in my senses and observations... being in a high state of "tune" and getting to develop skills and expertise in a difficult and fun sport..

Because it so fully involves me, I feel continually hyper-alert and aware of things in a way that being in a car, I simply am not. My peripheral vision, awareness of road surface, wind conditions, slant/camber of the road, animal life, pedestrians...

I become more aware of traffic signals, brake lights ahead of me.. I find myself "remembering" exactly where cars around me are, and observing who is driving them - are they eating, talking on a hands-free cell phone, do they have distracting kids... are they aggressive, mellow.. do they signal their turns..

Everything becomes keyed-in. If I see a flock of birds bursting around the corner, maybe I expect a giant truck to come lumbering around the bend, halfway-into my lane. And often I'm not surprised.

When I see tire-tracks of water in the opposite lane, I can predict that at any moment, there might be standing pools of water covering the road ahead.

Everything is so beautiful. Everything tells hints that can keep you alive. It's like being a hunter in the forest. It is so animalistic, so engaging.

Word. and I just want to say, if I ever come off flippant let me say right now I have serious respect for EMTs so I just don't want my obnoxious attitude to be misinterpreted because I really appreciate knowing there are people out there who can help if I'm hurt :)
 

Silverhawk851

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56895_408796447705_507792705_4403648_3616608_o.jpg iPhone 450.png



Unfortunately, I sold her, pretty thing.


Only so I can get a faster one :rockon:
 
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Yankee427

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I was watching this show called Brain Games on National Geographic channel and it was explaining how your vision is connected to your brain processing the images coming at you.

It was a very interesting episode and one of the aspects of the show was explaining how when you are driving a car, your brain will pre-process the images in front of you before you even visualize the cars in your view. For this reason, sometimes people will actually just flat out not see motorcyclists on the road because your brain is so trained to see cars, that the motorcycles just will not be there. It is a blind spot in the processing by your brain.

This is why when someone hits a motorcycle, sometimes they will say, I did not even see it there at all, or it came out of nowhere.
 

Ajita

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I don't think I'll become a motorcycle person, but I want to see how this suits me:

 

MJ DeMarco

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Being dead is not Fastlane.

That said, I used to own a VROD.

After 6 months I sold it. Too many morons on the road and frankly, I don't want my life cut short by some idiot plumber who thinks nothing of tailgating my bike within 3 feet at 60mph while talking on his cell phone.

I'm sticking with a convertible.

Invariably, it always seems bike deaths are at the fault of the automobile driver.

In my life, I know far too many people whose lives have been cut short (or F*cked) due to bike tragedies. My neighbor was an avid biker and was clipped by a stupid teenage girl. Now he has brain damage and can barely walk, talk, or piss by himself. He will never be normal ever again.

The ultimate authority on this topic would probably be @Red if she wants too... I know she is an avid biker and has suffered through some horrible events.
 
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Silverhawk851

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Thing is, a fast motorcycle can't be your sole mode of transportation.
You'll get KILLED!

And a motorcycle is the furthest thing from Fastlane, Lol High risk low rewards, short term gratification for long term risk. Negative ROI all day long.

Treat it like a vice, just enjoy it time to time.

In the meantime, go convertible ;)
 
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IntegraR0064

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I'm not saying don't own a motorcycle, if you accept the risks and still do it fine, but you are not being realistic about the risks. Every single friend I've ever had who got a bike ended up in a very major accident that damaged their body permanently and severely for life. None of that (with the exception of one of them maybe) was their fault. People driving cars are complete morons when it comes to bikes, and a simple mistake on the part of you or anyone around you will end catastrophically.
 

Disobey

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I love bikes, yet I'll never ride one.

Too scared of losing a limb on the side of the road. I've seen it happen in front of me. Not a pretty sight.

You seem to be a confident biker, that's great, but don't let over-confidence blind you, this destroys lives.

Personally, I want to drive an F12 Berlinetta someday, not a wheelchair.

Being a quadriplegic fastlaner can't be fun!
 
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Silverhawk851

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but don't let over-confidence blind you, this destroys lives.

key. Especially if your a squid. And gear up. Accept that your going to go down. Everyone goes down. But it's not nearly as bad if your wearing proper gear. It's not fun when you have skin missing because you thought a tanktop looked 'cooler' than a jacket.
 

cautiouscapy

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When I met my guy, he was a hot guy on a hot bike.

He'd worked his way up the engine capacities since he was 16-17, and when I met him had a 1000cc sports bike that he himself said had unnecessary power.

He had stories of close shaves over the years with maiming and death that were terrifying.

He said that he was losing the precise concentration necessary to avoid being killed, and sold it.

(I sometimes miss my hot guy on a hot bike.)
 

MJ DeMarco

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I think what frightens me the most is the open air and awesome feeling of freedom -- it is relaxing. Yet, relaxing on a bike is how you get killed.
 
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I think what frightens me the most is the open air and awesome feeling of freedom -- it is relaxing. Yet, relaxing on a bike is how you get killed.
Same as flying. It's actually rare that I get more than a few seconds of relaxing time and go "wow look down there-an aircraft carrier!" 4/5 thoughts per second are aircraft emergency prep/situational awareness, 1/5 are "this is awesome"
 

Young-Gun

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I guess if I'd found something else that equals it, without the same level of risk, I would do that thing.

Like I said though, for me it's a level of visceral awesomeness that is tough to match with anything else..

The danger is part of the excitement. It is hard to forget about once you know it.

I wish I had the gene that made me enjoy things that were good for me.

Unfortunately, I've always seemed to take the most pleasure in things that were somewhat risky.

I guess I'm curious if anyone has suggestions for replacement activities when a little older.

Also, I caution people against "knowing everything about it" without having done it. Motorcycling is one of the hardest things to set aside prejudice and preconception.

You want to talk about risk/rewards on a motorcycle? I present to you (and this is a MUST. WATCH. video:)
The greatest motorcycle racing battle that I have ever seen: as two WORLD-CHAMPIONS face off in front of 10s of thousands..
Valentino Rossi in Yellow
Jorge Lorenzo #99
They have left the pack behind. They know each other as rivals.
They are on identical machines, teammates at the top of their game.

Here it is - MUST SEE: http://vimeo.com/32756097

This is partly what I'm trying to say - don't "know" motorcycling without commensurate experience - it's easy to start talking based on sensationalism. None of us really know what we're talking about, with masters of it like Lorenzo and Rossi out there. When Rossi gets on the road to buy his groceries, I bet he suits up, and carefully makes his way among the traffic, but should he be worried that he is going to die or be maimed? I guess I just have faith that he'll make it there and back. Maybe someday he doesn't. But isn't that true of everything? None of us know when we will be called. I want to enjoy my youth while I have it and to me - motorcycling is of those things that just feels right - feels like being myself ;)

Watch the video. See what is possible. Motorcycling obeys the laws of physics - it's a mental game.
 

cautiouscapy

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I guess I'm curious if anyone has suggestions for replacement activities when a little older.

Watching Reality TV and drinking beer? ;-)

My hot guy on a motorbike is now a hot guy on a mountain bike.
I don't know if it would do it for you, but I can see it still takes concentration and speed is of course relative.
 
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Rawr

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I used to ride a 150cc scooter, I know not close as it only goes 60mph but close enough on another level: One time it was 2 of us, at night coming back from a bar. We're going over a long bridge and hear a screech behind us, then a jaguar flies by us, brakes and pulls next to us. The guys in the car scream "your taillight is out, we almost nailed you." They were going about 100, and we'd be screwed because of a lightbulb.

We rode a lot on that thing, and besides that one time didn't have many close calls. But we fell, and it was NOTHING you could predict. We were simply taking a turn, and there was an oil spill there. Luckily we were only going 15mph.

I'll always want one, but I'll get a convertible instead. You simply can't own one in south florida imo.
 

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I saw a guy fly off his motorcycle yesterday afternoon. He totaled one car, severely damaged another and, he almost totaled himself. Yes they are cool and, I would like to have one but they are just too dangerous. I have too many stories to tell of motorcycle accidents and, for that reason I will probably never get one.
 

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I use to be a Firefighter/Medic my very first call was a guy that loved to ride. Night before he got a brand new bike He had been riding for years. He was so happy he forgot to safely ride said bike. Needless to say it took a few hours to pick up his body parts changed lanes right in front of a semi and got toasted. I will never forget we had to use a 2.5 hose line to spray off all the blood and brain matter that was all over the highway. Few years later same area of the highway youung kid going over 100mph was trying to pass in between two semi trailers one of the semis blew a tire the two semis "pancaked" took us hours to remove the remains of what was left.

Over all had 10 deaths from bikes over the years ran 1,000's of calls NEVER had someone get hurt from walking. Don't get me wrong I loved to ride and I love pushing things to the max. But way too many people driving that do not watch the road. Just not worth it way too many other things in life to enjoy.
 
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Red

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It's like anything else "risky" in life: perception.

98% of motorcycle accidents involve one of these three factors:

1) operator is male
2) operator is under 25
3) operator is incapacitated in some manner, ie: drugs or alcohol -something that slows the reaction time.

There will always be things in life perceived as risky (leaving a secure job to start your own business, anyone?) & everyone has to make the decision for themselves if it's worth it or not. Risk vs Reward, isn't that what life is all about? :)

Some people eat fast food every day & refuse to work out. I ride a 1000cc motor atop two wheels. Who's really participating in the risky behavior?
 

MJ DeMarco

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Some people eat fast food every day & refuse to work out.

And how would you feel if that same person nearly killed you and you have to lay in bed a quadriplegic for the next 40 years? Not because of your negligence, but because some fat F*ck on his cell phone was too lazy to swivel his head while changing lanes? The risk you cite is somewhat of an illusion -- like yourself loading the gun to play Russian Roulette except that the reality of the matter is, you aren't loading the gun -- the morons driving around you are.

I know you well enough to know I won't change your mind, but perhaps there are some on this board who aren't as resolute.

Choose wisely.
 

Red

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If we're talking straight up risk of an early death by participating in one of the two activities mentioned (riding a motorcycle regularly vs. eating fast food & not exercising), then, BY FAR, I'm participating in the less risky behavior. That's what I'm saying, it's all about perception, regardless of what the stats say. Just like so many people are TERRIFIED of flying, yet drive every day to work with Starbucks in one hand & their phone in the other. One behavior is waaaaay more likely to result in their death/dismemberment, but it's not perceived that way, so no fear.

Yes, someone's carelessness could end my life tomorrow. I acknowledge that. But you can't spend your life being afraid of what could happen. If I focused on what could happen to me, I'd never leave my house.

Now jumping out of an airplane? You couldn't pay me to do that. And I'm sure it's less risky than everything mentioned above. No F*cking way. Never gonna happen.
 
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D

DeletedUser2

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Had a bike when I was 21. rode it across country. was an awesome thing to do from idaho through the southwest, to texas then up to the east coast. loved it.

had 1 accident.
was VERY lucky, no damage, other than being massively sore for a couple days. the accident was not my fault.
saw that my life was way to short on a bike. sold it to live longer....

Z
 

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Had a bike when I was 21. rode it across country. was an awesome thing to do from idaho through the southwest, to texas then up to the east coast. loved it.
had 1 accident.
was VERY lucky, no damage, other than being massively sore for a couple days. the accident was not my fault.
saw that my life was way to short on a bike. sold it to live longer....
Z
I come from a long line of bikers. All my neighbors, all my parents friends, all my cousins rode bikes.
After the 3rd biking related funeral of a loved one before turning 15 I realized it was something that I loved, but wouldn't do.
Yes, in a few of the cases, it WAS their fault.
But had they made the same mistakes in a car they'd still be around.

I REALLY want one, but it's only something I'd do under very specific circumstances.
 

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