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BOOK The Miracle Morning - Sleep deprivation?

4symmetry

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Hi all,

I just read the Blink on the Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod. Curious about the concept, I also bought the ebook and saw that MJ is endorsing it.

So @MJDeMarco, if you get up at 4, when do you go to bed? Are you getting enough sleep?
I‘m just really worried the book is promoting long-term sleep deprivation. This has been proven to be detrimental to health in various ways, and there’s no „mind over body“ effect big enough to change that.

Of course self-talk and excitement affect your level of awakeness and ease of getting up in the morning, but that doesn’t mean you won’t be sleep-deprived long term if you don’t put in the hours.

Please, I‘d be happy to read a reply from @MJDeMarco and also others about how you schedule your routine.

Thanks :)
 

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Longinus

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You have to go to sleep earlier. Sleep deprivation is counterproductive but unfortunately promoted by the Gary V's in this world.
 

GregDott

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I started with this 11 days ago. I generally try to sleep by 11pm, but on quite a few nights it has been around 12 or after. I wake up a 5am. First two days hit me. I had to have a 30 min nap each day. The rest of the time I have been fine, except for 2 days ago, when I passed out in the afternoon for about 2 hours. For me 6 hours of sleep is generally good I find.

Another thing to bear in mind when you first start altering your sleeping habits is that your body needs time to adjust accordingly.

I would be interested to know how many hours others are sleeping on this?
 
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4symmetry

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Wow 6h is very little. Less than that is plain dangerous. There is a very small (<10%) group of people who genuinely don’t need more than that. The rest of us are just sleep deprived in that state. In long-term sleep deprivation you also don’t realize you are sleep deprived anymore.

If you believe you are fine on 6h of sleep, genuinely, you should:
- take at least 5min to fall asleep. Faster than that and you’re probably sleep deprived.
- have no problem staying awake during the day without a nap
- never ever pass out

It’s true that you can teach your body to adjust and you’ll feel less bad after some time of pursuing a sleep-depriving habit. But that is just adapting your incredible body to yet another stressor, akin to bad nutrition or stress.



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GregDott

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Wow 6h is very little. Less than that is plain dangerous. There is a very small (<10%) group of people who genuinely don’t need more than that. The rest of us are just sleep deprived in that state. In long-term sleep deprivation you also don’t realize you are sleep deprived anymore.

If you believe you are fine on 6h of sleep, genuinely, you should:
- take at least 5min to fall asleep. Faster than that and you’re probably sleep deprived.
- have no problem staying awake during the day without a nap
- never ever pass out

It’s true that you can teach your body to adjust and you’ll feel less bad after some time of pursuing a sleep-depriving habit. But that is just adapting your incredible body to yet another stressor, akin to bad nutrition or stress.



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Haha passed out was more of an expression. I lay down and drifted off after reading.

I take between 15m and 30m to fall asleep at night usually.

I have been curious about the same things that you are, but I find the best way to find something out is to engage in an experiment. See what works for you. Don't be dumb. Don't wring yourself out. If it is having a negative effect, stop. Simple.
 

ForeverYoung

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I have been going to bed whenever I felt tired and waking up when my body wakes me up, no alarm clocks.

Have been doing this for over a year now, some days I sleep 10 hours, some days I sleep 5 hours.

So if your in a position where you can wake up whenever you want, ditch the alarm clock and move the mobile phone from your bedroom and let your body tell you how much sleep is needed.

All those idiots telling you to sleep 4/5 hours a night are (as I said) idiots.. Your body needs sleep to reset your brain and rest your muscles.

What´s the point of sleeping a few hours and spend the whole day tired and not productive? Better to get the sleep you need and be ready for a day of hard work.
 
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4symmetry

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Haha passed out was more of an expression. I lay down and drifted off after reading.

I take between 15m and 30m to fall asleep at night usually.

I have been curious about the same things that you are, but I find the best way to find something out is to engage in an experiment. See what works for you. Don't be dumb. Don't wring yourself out. If it is having a negative effect, stop. Simple.
Well I have experimented with this before. 2-3 years ago, I was constantly tired, needed caffeine to get through the work day and got sick a lot. I tended to fall asleep while trying to watch a movie with my bf. I was researching all kinds of sleep hacks, bought a wake up light and even a sleep-cycle monitoring alarm that would wake you up during light sleep.
Nothing really worked. After a few months of that I finally said to myself: crazy idea, but you know, maybe you just don‘t sleep *enough*?!

I didn’t think so. I „knew“ 7h in bed (~6.5h of sleep) were enough to make me feel good. So if I was getting those, I must be sleeping enough.
Despite my resistance, I tried just adding 30min of sleep per night, in a disciplined and recorded fashion.
Et voila:
- way better (normal!) immune defense against flu etc - sick less often
- more sex drive
- no need to rely on caffeine
- no sleep burnout by Friday followed by binge sleeping on the weekend
- better/more stable mood
- a huge increase in the ability to think creatively and my output of quality work

I‘m never going back :D
Even though before that, I‘d always seen sleep as „lost time“!

That’s why I‘m curious whether everyone doing the Miracle Morning is sleep depriving themselves or if some people do the routine, but still get enough sleep.
 

GregDott

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Well I have experimented with this before. 2-3 years ago, I was constantly tired, needed caffeine to get through the work day and got sick a lot. I tended to fall asleep while trying to watch a movie with my bf. I was researching all kinds of sleep hacks, bought a wake up light and even a sleep-cycle monitoring alarm that would wake you up during light sleep.
Nothing really worked. After a few months of that I finally said to myself: crazy idea, but you know, maybe you just don‘t sleep *enough*?!

I didn’t think so. I „knew“ 7h in bed (~6.5h of sleep) were enough to make me feel good. So if I was getting those, I must be sleeping enough.
Despite my resistance, I tried just adding 30min of sleep per night, in a disciplined and recorded fashion.
Et voila:
- way better (normal!) immune defense against flu etc - sick less often
- more sex drive
- no need to rely on caffeine
- no sleep burnout by Friday followed by binge sleeping on the weekend
- better/more stable mood
- a huge increase in the ability to think creatively and my output of quality work

I‘m never going back :D
Even though before that, I‘d always seen sleep as „lost time“!

That’s why I‘m curious whether everyone doing the Miracle Morning is sleep depriving themselves or if some people do the routine, but still get enough sleep.
Given your words I will monitor my mood and energy levels carefully. Thanks... Still interested to hear how many hours others are getting.
 

jlwilliams

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Going to bed early requires discipline. You need to unwind in the evening, shut off the glowing screen and generally create the habit of going to bed and sleeping. All of that is easier said than done especially with a family or even with a partner who isn't on the same page. I know that when my wife is watching whatever the heck she watches on her phone in bed it effects my sleep.

If you are going to get up at 4:00 you need to make it a priority to get to sleep early.
 

JAJT

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I go to bed at 10pm, wake up at 5am.

That's 7 hours of sleep. That's personally plenty for me. If you need 8 hours, go to sleep an hour earlier or wake up an hour later.

IMHO the take-away of that book isn't "wake up at 4am", it's to be purposeful about your wake up routine and giving yourself time to wake up properly without distraction. If your family wakes up at 9am, you could do the Miracle Morning at 8am. Or even wake up at 9am with them and wander off into a quiet room by yourself.

The actual time of waking and sleeping matters a lot less than being excited to wake up and getting your alone time in to set the stage for the day.

So, regardless of what the clock on the wall says:

1. Get 7-8 hours of sleep
2. Give yourself an hour to yourself when you first wake up
 

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4symmetry

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I go to bed at 10pm, wake up at 5am.

That's 7 hours of sleep. That's personally plenty for me. If you need 8 hours, go to sleep an hour earlier or wake up an hour later.

IMHO the take-away of that book isn't "wake up at 4am", it's to be purposeful about your wake up routine and giving yourself time to wake up properly without distraction. If your family wakes up at 9am, you could do the Miracle Morning at 8am. Or even wake up at 9am with them and wander off into a quiet room by yourself.

The actual time of waking and sleeping matters a lot less than being excited to wake up and getting your alone time in to set the stage for the day.

So, regardless of what the clock on the wall says:

1. Get 7-8 hours of sleep
2. Give yourself an hour to yourself when you first wake up
Yes I thought so but still am curious about people’s specific routines.

Btw, 7h in bett doesn’t equal 7h of sleep. I can guarantee that. ;)
 

Dunkafelics

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I have been going to bed whenever I felt tired and waking up when my body wakes me up, no alarm clocks.

Have been doing this for over a year now, some days I sleep 10 hours, some days I sleep 5 hours.

All those idiots telling you to sleep 4/5 hours a night are (as I said) idiots.. Your body needs sleep to reset your brain and rest your muscles.
The problem is that there is a lot of different perspectives on the amount of sleep that is needed to have an optimal lifestyle.

Some people say 8 hours is plenty, some say it is too much.

Some say you only need 4-6 hours of sleep...

I have been doing the Miracle Morning on my days off while working shift work so my sleep patterns fluctuate.

It is all about what you want in your life and what helps you live the best life.

Since I have been doing the Miracle Morning, my life has changed drastically with consistent focus and an understanding of what is important in life.

I go to bed at 10pm and wake up at 4am. That is plenty of sleep for me and it allows me to work on my business in the early morning, while my family is asleep.

It allows me to take care of things in the early hours of the morning. Then I can structure my time throughout the day to spend time with my family or get a bit more time for business-related activities.

Again, if you don't have a lot of other responsibilities or commitments other than to yourself. Don't get up at 4am! Sleep until a time that you feel refreshed and then commit to the habit of doing the Miracle Morning.

It is the routine of doing it that is important, not the time of day you wake up to do it.
 

amp0193

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No the book isn’t advocating sleep deprivation.

Any hour you save depriving yourself of sleep will cost you two in lost productivity due to drowsiness. (Or 4 in my case yesterday).

Get your sleep
 
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4symmetry

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The problem is that there is a lot of different perspectives on the amount of sleep that is needed to have an optimal lifestyle.

Some people say 8 hours is plenty, some say it is too much.

Some say you only need 4-6 hours of sleep...

I have been doing the Miracle Morning on my days off while working shift work so my sleep patterns fluctuate.

It is all about what you want in your life and what helps you live the best life.

Since I have been doing the Miracle Morning, my life has changed drastically with consistent focus and an understanding of what is important in life.

I go to bed at 10pm and wake up at 4am. That is plenty of sleep for me and it allows me to work on my business in the early morning, while my family is asleep.

It allows me to take care of things in the early hours of the morning. Then I can structure my time throughout the day to spend time with my family or get a bit more time for business-related activities.

Again, if you don't have a lot of other responsibilities or commitments other than to yourself. Don't get up at 4am! Sleep until a time that you feel refreshed and then commit to the habit of doing the Miracle Morning.

It is the routine of doing it that is important, not the time of day you wake up to do it.
Yes, I absolutely see the point about the routine being important, not the time.
I do have lots of commitments though, which is why I‘m trying to get up earlier. That’s why I’m still interested in hearing about other people’s routines. :)

Also: „some say“ that 4-6h might be enough. But guess what: those aren’t scientifically based statements. I know of no thorough study which supports sleeping less than 6-7 hours, and the ideal seems to be 7+ for most people.
 
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4symmetry

4symmetry

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No the book isn’t advocating sleep deprivation.

Any hour you save depriving yourself of sleep will cost you two in lost productivity due to drowsiness. (Or 4 in my case yesterday).

Get your sleep
Idk. It sounds a lot like that on p. 53 where he decouples sleep from feeling rested and being healthy.
E.g. „‘Thank you for giving me these five hours of sleep tonight. Five hours is exactly what I need to feel rested and energized in the morning. My body is capable of miraculous things, the least of which is generating an abundance of energy from five restful hours of sleep. I believe that I create my experience of reality, and I choose to create waking up tomorrow feeling energized and excited to take on my day, and I’m grateful for that.’ What I found was that whether I got nine, eight, seven, six, five, or even just four hours of sleep, as long as I consciously decided, before bed, that I was getting the perfect amount of sleep –that the hours were going to energize my body to feel wonderful in the morning –I consistently woke feeling better than I ever had before.“


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amp0193

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lous things, the least of which is generating an abundance of energy from five restful hours of sleep. I believe that I create my experience of reality, and I choose to create waking up tomorrow feeling energized and excited to take on my day, and I’m grateful for that.’ What I found was that whether I got nine, eight, seven, six, five, or even just four hours of sleep, as long as I consciously decided, before bed, that I was getting the perfect amount of sleep –that the hours were going to energize my body to feel wonderful in the morning –I consistently woke feeling better than I ever had before.“
Still not advocating sleep deprivation.

Moreso emphasizing the power that your mind can have.


When I was working a dayjob, and pushing that alarm clock snooze, I felt sluggish and slow no matter how much sleep I got. A lot of it is mental, but there is a physical element to it too.
 

MoneyPhantom

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There are many things that (can) have an effect on your sleep time, one of it being proper nutrition. Have a look at MJ's vegetarian/veganism thread.

I personally go with ~ 6 hours and I'm totally fine, using a sleep cycle alarm clock but often waking up before it.
 

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