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HOT TOPIC I have two questions for you (borrowing from family)

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Andreas Thrane

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I used the search function to find threads already covered these questions but can't find any. Delete this post if it’s already been discussed. Sorry in advance.

Family funds
To get my business started I need some funds. There are several ways to get the money, but the fastest and cheapest is to lend it from my brother. However I’m in doubt about how to go about this the best way possible. Have you ever borrowed money from your family members to fund a business? What are your key take-aways? Should we formulate a contract beforehand?

The money will cover the price of machines for a service business.

Your experience with testing the market before investing?
I have a business idea. It’s not innovative but the service I will offer isn’t available in my geographical area. I know the business is viable other places.

What I tried so far:

- Leased the machines for a week to test the interest. (It’s not possible, because they strictly sell the machine)

- SEMrushed other businesses

- Pitching the business council in my geographical area

How can I minimize the risk factors even more?


Sorry if this is not relevant. Let me know, if you need more information. English are not my mother tongue and I hope it won’t cause misunderstandings.
 

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Thoelt53

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How much money are we talking about?

If things go bad and you're left with depreciated machines, and still in debt to your brother even after selling the machines, how will this impact your relationship with him?
 

NMdad

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First, do NOT borrow money from family or friends. It can poison the relationship.

Second, get clients BEFORE you spend money on any machines. Have them pay you a deposit before you start any work, and use the deposit to rent the machines. Or, use the entire client fee to pay for the machine--in other words, the client pays you for the service, and you buy the machine; in this case, you would essentially do the service for "free" but you would own the machine.

Find out who else might have the machines, and ask to rent them. See if you can find any used machines for a discount. There might be people/businesses who own the machines but don't always use them, and you could offer to rent the machines while they aren't using them (like outside of regular business hours, or for 1 day or 1 weekend at a time).

If you have paying clients and renting is NOT an option, it would be better to NOT pay the full price of the machine right away; see if you can arrange payments to purchase them.
 

rwhyan

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How can you offer people your service using the least amount of capital and in the fastest time possivle? Not your full service but a bare-bones version to gauge interest.

The only way to know if people will buy is to ask them to buy.
 

Ernie McCracken

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Borrowing money is never a great idea but borrowing it from a family member would be the WORST!!!
First, do NOT borrow money from family or friends. It can poison the relationship.
Don't agree with this. Of course it's a huge risk with lots of horror stories out there, but what do you think wealthy families do? They borrow/lend seed money from each other all the time, which is a HUGE advantage over the rest of us who have to start from nothing. Under-capitalization is what kills most businesses before they ever get off the ground.

I personally know of multiple entrepreneurs who were only able to start with investment from family. One woman nets $200k-$300k/year profit distributing pull tabs for the past 10 years. She was broke and unemployed when her grandpa gave her $50k to start. Another woman I know borrowed money from her folks to start a chain of dance studios. I know a guy who owns a car dealership that was purchased using his dad's money. Also know a guy who owns a 7 figure agriculture operation - financed through family.
 

minivanman

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Don't agree with this. Of course it's a huge risk with lots of horror stories out there, but what do you think wealthy families do? They borrow/lend seed money from each other all the time, which is a HUGE advantage over the rest of us who have to start from nothing. Under-capitalization is what kills most businesses before they ever get off the ground.

I personally know of multiple entrepreneurs who were only able to start with investment from family. One woman nets $200k-$300k/year profit distributing pull tabs for the past 10 years. She was broke and unemployed when her grandpa gave her $50k to start. Another woman I know borrowed money from her folks to start a chain of dance studios. I know a guy who owns a car dealership that was purchased using his dad's money. Also know a guy who owns a 7 figure agriculture operation - financed through family.
One woman nets $100k/$200k..... 2000 people borrowed money from their family and now they are enemies. Agree or not, it's the truth.... 1 vs 2000.

Now about your theory..... what do I think wealthy families do? Well, I know several and none have done what you say they do. I'm not saying there aren't any but you act like every wealthy family does that while it's probably very rare. Every family that has over $1 million (usually way more) that I know has made their kids/family members work for it. Let's take a famous Nascar driver that I know. His brother wanted to be a racer like him. He did not fund his brothers racing career. He helped his brother a little bit with a mini stock ($3500 total cost). Then I introduced the Nascar driver to some friends because he wanted to play on some local dirt tracks. That connection lead to his brother racing a super late model. He still never gave his brother any money. Now let's take an example closer to home.... me and my grandson.... we have all laid out a plan for him and it does not include any free money from us. If he strays from the plan, that is his choice. I will always be here for guidance but not money. He wants to own a chain of garages..... could we fund this in the beginning? Sure we could.... will we? Not a 1% chance. You see, once you are at the top of the ladder, you see things much different than someone who is looking up the ladder. Now on another note..... GIVING money to someone is a whole other topic but we are not talking about GIVING.... the OP is talking about BORROWING. I GAVE my sister $2,000 but I wouldn't have ever LOANED it to her.
 
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Andreas Thrane

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How much money are we talking about?

If things go bad and you're left with depreciated machines, and still in debt to your brother even after selling the machines, how will this impact your relationship with him?
About 3000$ plus 1500$ that i add myself.

Do you have at least a rudimentary business plan? Is this a debt or equity deal? Both?

Treat your family the same as you would any potential investor, imo.
Yes i have a business plan. Actually it's his own idea to borrow me the money, after he asked me about it. I always thought its a bad idea to borrow money from the family, but he got me thinking. We talked about an equity deal where he gets 10%.

Borrowing money is never a great idea but borrowing it from a family member would be the WORST!!! So, what is the amount you need? I ask this because I have a follow up for it.
Do you have any experience borrowing money from family members?
I need about 3000$.


First, do NOT borrow money from family or friends. It can poison the relationship.

Second, get clients BEFORE you spend money on any machines. Have them pay you a deposit before you start any work, and use the deposit to rent the machines. Or, use the entire client fee to pay for the machine--in other words, the client pays you for the service, and you buy the machine; in this case, you would essentially do the service for "free" but you would own the machine.

Find out who else might have the machines, and ask to rent them. See if you can find any used machines for a discount. There might be people/businesses who own the machines but don't always use them, and you could offer to rent the machines while they aren't using them (like outside of regular business hours, or for 1 day or 1 weekend at a time).

If you have paying clients and renting is NOT an option, it would be better to NOT pay the full price of the machine right away; see if you can arrange payments to purchase them.
Thanks for the ideas. I have a meeting next week with 3 agriculture owners who is potential customers.
I just browsed some used machines (why didnt i think of that myself?!), and there are some for sale. I have to consider, that there are no warranty? Oh well.


Don't agree with this. Of course it's a huge risk with lots of horror stories out there, but what do you think wealthy families do? They borrow/lend seed money from each other all the time, which is a HUGE advantage over the rest of us who have to start from nothing. Under-capitalization is what kills most businesses before they ever get off the ground.

I personally know of multiple entrepreneurs who were only able to start with investment from family. One woman nets $200k-$300k/year profit distributing pull tabs for the past 10 years. She was broke and unemployed when her grandpa gave her $50k to start. Another woman I know borrowed money from her folks to start a chain of dance studios. I know a guy who owns a car dealership that was purchased using his dad's money. Also know a guy who owns a 7 figure agriculture operation - financed through family.
Thanks for taking your time to set a new perspective on borrowing money from the family. A few of my friends got money from their parents to start their business, but i think its different from borrowing money from your brother.

In short: I'm in doubt about what to do.
 

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As soon as my sister heard my business was taking off, she also offered me to borrow money. I don't want to because:

- If it boosts my business, I owe her. (even if I pay it back).
- If I fail, I owe her (because I can't pay it back).

Both outcomes to be avoided.

Find another way. The "borrow money"-way seems the easiest, but will be the hardest.
 

minivanman

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So we are having this conversation over $3000? Come on, if you are serious, you can get a 2nd or 3rd or 4th job and save that much in just a few short months.

I'll warn you that if you are trying to do this with the very least money possible, just know that you will probably need more money. Something is going to come up, so keep the 2nd/3rd/4th job for a little while to make sure you have the funds needed.

You need to have more jobs before next Monday.
 

MJ DeMarco

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This is about $3,000?

And here I thought we were talking about $50G or something.

Have to agree, if you can't save $3G in a job, there might other considerations here...
 
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Andreas Thrane

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@MJ DeMarco @minivanman - Appreciate the help guys!

There seems to be a misunderstanding. It's not like i can't get the money i need by myself, and i've never asked my brother about the money. We had a family dinner, and i was asked about my plans. My brother liked the idea, and got fired up about it and offered me the rest of the money i need. Before that it was never an option for me.
I work two jobs already. It just got me thinking, cause the faster i get off ground with the business the better. Because of your guys input, i won't take my brothers offer. This is MY project. '

I hope I won’t look like a lazy a$$ for asking that question, because I’m not.

As soon as my sister heard my business was taking off, she also offered me to borrow money. I don't want to because:

- If it boosts my business, I owe her. (even if I pay it back).
- If I fail, I owe her (because I can't pay it back).

Both outcomes to be avoided.

Find another way. The "borrow money"-way seems the easiest, but will be the hardest.
Thanks man. I decided to do it without my brother.
 

MJ DeMarco

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If you borrow from your brother I would suggest getting everything in writing, no different than if you borrowed from me, or your neighbor.

Good luck!
 

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Do you have a credit card?

A word of caution... Micro businesses that only take $3000 to start are usually one of two things...

1. Unscalable owner operator jobs.
2. So unbelievably competitive, that you your likelihood of failure is higher than if you just went for something more legitimate.

If you can see it falling in to one of those categories, maybe save yourself some time and scrap the whole thing.
 
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Andreas Thrane

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Do you have a credit card?

A word of caution... Micro businesses that only take $3000 to start are usually one of two things...

1. Unscalable owner operator jobs.
2. So unbelievably competitive, that you your likelihood of failure is higher than if you just went for something more legitimate.

If you can see it falling in to one of those categories, maybe save yourself some time and scrap the whole thing.
Yes i have a credit card.

Thanks for the caution. It's my first business, so the more help the merrier.

First of all, i'm inspired of this.

The service i will provide is mobile detailing, which is a tested and proven business model. In my geographical area no one is doing this. I made some research, and it's not competitive - i might be wrong cause i never made that kind of research before. My goal is to get B2B deals and my thoughts so far:
- Theres a lot of golf courses in my area, and the golfcarts needs cleaning.
- Tractors and other agriculture machines.
- Trucks.
- Companies with a fleetpark.
- Workmen/Craftsmen are all using cars that needs cleaning.


Is it scalable? Yes it is. It might not be 'easy' to expand and scale. I probably not going to be rich of THIS company, but it will provide with a cashcow that will allow me to invest in something else later on.
 

Ernman

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Is it scalable? Yes it is. It might not be 'easy' to expand and scale. I probably not going to be rich of THIS company, but it will provide with a cashcow that will allow me to invest in something else later on.
Detailing requires a lot of your time UNTIL you hire employees. Remember divesting your time from the biz is one of the critical components. You say you can scale. Please discuss how you plan to scale.
 
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Timmy C

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Do you have a credit card?

A word of caution... Micro businesses that only take $3000 to start are usually one of two things...

1. Unscalable owner operator jobs.
2. So unbelievably competitive, that you your likelihood of failure is higher than if you just went for something more legitimate.

If you can see it falling in to one of those categories, maybe save yourself some time and scrap the whole thing.

Starting mine with under $3000...... hate reading this sort of thing, makes me question my business.

Done doubting myself all the time stuff that lol.

I got this.
 
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Andreas Thrane

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Detailing requires a lot of your time UNTIL you hire employees. Remember divesting your time from the biz is one of the critical components. You say you can scale. Please discuss how you plan to scale.
It all comes down to sales in business. If I can sell subscriptions of various types of auto car detailing (B2B), then some sort of stable income is secured. This will allow me to plan ahead and eventually hiring. I will start hiring on hourly basis so that it remains flexible for me.


A critical component is to systematize the service, so the customerexperience is close to identical.

It’s definitely not the easiest business to scale, but I don’t think it’s impossible. If I find it too difficult to scale, then I treat it as a goodpaying job atleast, and then I will be able to invest in something else. For me, money is a tool towards freedom.
 

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Just like any loan / investment in your business, do they add anything besides the money? connections? workforce? assets? sales? don't just take money.

if your brother is fired up about investing and you write up a simple loan agreement, use the $3k to get started. he volunteered it. offer him 10% return and go make 100% with it. be clear in the agreement he gets nothing if you fail. then don't fail.

[this assumes $3k is pocket change for the brother and he is mentally lighting fire to it as he hands it to you..... if he is liquidating his 401k and giving you all the money he has in the world, do NOT do it]
 

Ernman

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It all comes down to sales in business. If I can sell subscriptions of various types of auto car detailing (B2B), then some sort of stable income is secured. This will allow me to plan ahead and eventually hiring. I will start hiring on hourly basis so that it remains flexible for me.


A critical component is to systematize the service, so the customerexperience is close to identical.

It’s definitely not the easiest business to scale, but I don’t think it’s impossible. If I find it too difficult to scale, then I treat it as a goodpaying job atleast, and then I will be able to invest in something else. For me, money is a tool towards freedom.
Thank you for clarifying your plan for scale. Please keep us posted on your success.
 

minivanman

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I'm not sold on the golf cart idea because I'd figure they have their workers clean them every day.... no?

My vote is for you to save up the money for what you need. Then go out and get some work BEFORE you buy ANYTHING!!! Now that you have the work, you have the money to buy what you need.

But, speaking of golf carts..... in your country, where do the country clubs get their golf carts? Do they own them? Rent them?
 
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Real Deal Denver

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This is an extremely sad thread for me to read.

I once had a fiance whose parents were multi-millionaires. She lost her job. I worked my a$$ off to pay the bills but ultimately couldn't do all of them. Almost drove me to kill myself trying to stay afloat.

She wouldn't ask dear daddy for any money because, in her family, that's "just not done." So I get sucked down this whirlpool.

Eventually, I ran out of money. Didn't even have ten dollars she needed one day to pay a kid to mow the lawn. What happened? She threw me out. Nice. This is after I gave 100% of what I had to give. Ever give 100% before? Try it.

So I leave, dead broke, and depressed. She calls up her daddy because now there's no choice, and everything is fine and dandy.

Put me into financial hell. I couldn't even afford FOOD. Drove me into bankruptcy.

Don't know how I survived, actually. Screwed up my life for YEARS.

So screw you tight bastards that have 6, 7, or 8 figure bank accounts that think you can take it with you.

I'm a much better man for it today. I always thought her, or her daddy, would throw 20-30K my way to "reimburse" me for what I gave. He owned five oil wells "just for spending cash" so even 100K was nothing to him. What a stupid dream that was. Never happened. No surprise there.

I know several people like that still today. Lots of money, but tight as hell. Although I am cordial to them, and they think everyone likes them - I actually despise them and can hardly stand to look at them.

Am I bitter? Hell no. If I was your brother or even your friend, I'd sign the check for you. No written agreement - no terms - no tainting our friendship. If you never pay me back, fine. There is SO much more that's important in life that's above stinking money. That's why I gave all. I value PEOPLE over money.

TAKE your brother's money. It can make your relationship stronger and closer. If I was your brother, I'd be honored to be ABLE to help you. Course, you have to hit bottom to appreciate that kind of POWER to be ABLE to do something like that. I would be PROUD to be able to help you. I'd also be super proud that you are taking on this venture! I'd be your number one fan! What else besides money can I do to help you? But, that's just me. Different.

For the rest of you tightwads, have you checked your stock accounts today? Did you make an extra 3 F*cking percent today? Great!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can have your money. We can only HOPE that you'll have even MORE tomorrow! I feel sorry for you. Really. You'll never the experience of having pure joy at being BLESSED enough to help someone else. Of course, unless you have your attorney draw up a CONTRACT on how you will be paid back, and have it notarized. And you'll be counting how many pennies that contract will be making you every day - oh, the pure joy of it all... bliss!

My wife is from a different culture. She and her family thinks about HELPING somebody as I have explained here. Sad to say, but I respect them much more than my family, that keeps track of every little thing they have, and how they compare to their friends and neighbors all the time.

I just had an argument with a close friend about this. I said that money can be replaced, but their character and who they are, and how they think, will be with them forever. Think that over - thank your brother for being such a great human being - and go make this happen!!!

One more thing. Think like the people on Shark Tank. They bring a shark into their business so they can be more successful. Could you do that with your brother's help? Open the door for him. If I make a dollar for every dollar my brother makes, I'm fine with that. I'd much rather have both my brother and I each make a dollar than me make $1.25 all by myself. Two heads are better than one, and you have a trusted partner/co-worker - and a back up plan. Think big!
 

Kak

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So screw you tight bastards that have 6, 7, or 8 figure bank accounts that think you can take it with you.
Really? You had a spendthrift nightmare of a girlfriend and you blame her rich dad because she drove you into the poor house?

Newsflash. He didn’t and still doesn’t owe you shit. Nor do any other rich bastards. It was YOUR fault.
 
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Real Deal Denver

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Really? You had a spendthrift nightmare of a girlfriend and you blame her rich dad because she drove you into the poor house?

Newsflash. He didn’t and still doesn’t owe you shit. Nor do any other rich bastards. It was YOUR fault.
Not surprised to hear that for some reason...

Of course, it was my fault. But like I said - money can't buy character. If she hadn't tossed me away after sucking away every dime I had, like the spoiled brat child she is, we might have been fine. Her Dad, after all, did write the check for the $400K plus house we bought.

But in the end, both of them watched me drown in debt. I'm not the one that threw anyone out - or used them - or turned their backs on them. And that's why I can look in the mirror every day and like me. If they can do that - more power to em. Some people aren't bothered by someone else giving all they had and being driven into bankruptcy. I'm not like that - but that's me I guess...

And I wouldn't trade MY character for THEIR money any day. All I lost was money. They lost, or never had in the first place, much more than that.
 
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MHP368

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I used the search function to find threads already covered these questions but can't find any. Delete this post if it’s already been discussed. Sorry in advance.

Family funds
To get my business started I need some funds. There are several ways to get the money, but the fastest and cheapest is to lend it from my brother. However I’m in doubt about how to go about this the best way possible. Have you ever borrowed money from your family members to fund a business? What are your key take-aways? Should we formulate a contract beforehand?

The money will cover the price of machines for a service business.

Your experience with testing the market before investing?
I have a business idea. It’s not innovative but the service I will offer isn’t available in my geographical area. I know the business is viable other places.

What I tried so far:

- Leased the machines for a week to test the interest. (It’s not possible, because they strictly sell the machine)

- SEMrushed other businesses

- Pitching the business council in my geographical area

How can I minimize the risk factors even more?


Sorry if this is not relevant. Let me know, if you need more information. English are not my mother tongue and I hope it won’t cause misunderstandings.
Thing about that is , is it worth burning that relationship if you fail? , I would definitely have a contract and be thinking of what I could pawn or how to adjust my budget if it were my brother.

I have a wealthy uncle ive never hit up precisely for this reason. His net worth is 10 million+ from good stock buys in the 90's , if I borrow money and cant pay that relationships done. As it stands if I needed a black market kidney he would work on it after one phone call , thats kind of a big ace in the hole to risk on some venture.

You really have to think hard, cost / benefit on what this is worrh to you. One angle though , are you just borrowing the money? Why not make him a partner? , if the agreemwnt involves profit sharing and you have a legitimate business plan and have done market research and then you involve him in business decisions I feel like if things go belly up its not really as bad as "oh my jerk brother borrowed 20k for a stupid idea and wasted it"
 

Real Deal Denver

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I have a wealthy uncle I've never hit up precisely for this reason. His net worth is 10 million+ from good stock buys in the 90's , if I borrow money and can't pay that relationships done.
Do you really WANT a relationship with someone that is going to feel "burned" that you borrowed 50K and things didn't work out, so you couldn't pay them back on time? (I'm talking about the guy that has ten mill - not the average dude). Who the F*ck needs some greedy bastard like THAT? Their second true love is money - I'm sure their first is themselves. They have nothing left over for anyone else, or pitifully little if anything.

I have had people offer me the last $20 they had before. Not the VERY last, but the last before payday. They would eat bologna sandwiches for four days in order to help me out. I didn't take it, by the way. But I now know what these people are made of, and I cherish them as friends. Others - like I explained before, were content to sit on the sidelines and watch me spend every dime I had while counting the interest they were making on their MILLIONS while I was dying. F*ck THEM!

Here's an interesting story most here will love. My fiance, with her super super wealthy parents (worth over 100 mill) - are all planning the big Christmas holiday. Wow - I've never gotten a present, or given one, to a multi-millionaire before. I hadn't looked forward to Christmas like that since I was a kid. I asked my fiance if her Dad had asked her what color of Lambo I liked best. No. I asked her if her Dad asked if I wanted a helicopter. I always wanted one of those. No. Yacht? No. Hmmmmm. I know it's gonna be good - can't wait. Christmas day comes, and I get a very large, and heavy box. Must have weighed 6-8 pounds. This was like winning the lottery! Wow! Turned out it was a HALF a VCR. A half VCR is the kind that only plays tapes. It doesn't have a tuner so you can use it to watch or record off TV. I think they were $20 at the time. Never did unpack it. Put it on the shelf as a regift someday. A half a VCR. Wow. Couldn't even spring for the full VCR. If that was me, I'd really be embarrassed. I'll remember that forever. Is that what anyone HERE wants anyone to remember about them? Does anyone here want to be remembered as a cheap a$$? That's a good way to do it.

My experiences. I'm glad I had them because they were like a good movie. But once you see the movie, you never want to see it again.

To put things into perspective - as I mentioned before - her parents wrote a check for about $450K to buy a house for us. To LEND us $50K to get by would have been nothing for them. Get another job - you can make it boy! When I was your age... nobody ever gave me anything... I'm my own man... ya, ya, ya...

And here we have people telling this OP to NOT work with his brother. How pathetic is that?

How about a mother? No - let the beech starve. Father? Sister? Best Friend? FIANCE? Let em all starve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet, through all of this shit - it only reinforced what is truly important in me. Instead of turning into a cheap a$$ - which I easily could have - I am now even more compassionate and generous. I have had many people tell me that I'm a very generous and caring person. I'll take those words to my grave. The rich bastards will NOT be taking their wealth to the grave. Maybe their reputation? Ha. More likely their kids will be glad they're gone because now they can get their hands on the money.

Once again - USE the money to do something. Money is a TOOL. If your ultra-rich Uncle likes to bask in the glory of his money - let him. If he was my Uncle, I wouldn't have the time of day for him. What is the purpose of him even BEING here if he is of no help to anyone? Exactly. Nada.

A REAL man - which there are so very few of - would have stepped up to the plate withOUT being asked. What are people saying about YOU behind your back? Think you're admired because of the size of your bank account? Think again.
 

Yuriy Solomonov

New Contributor
Feb 22, 2019
8
5
13
I would not relay on friends or relatives to borrow money from. I think before you go ahead with borrowing from someone-else money you need to built your brand your reputation. 3000 is not a lot and anyone can make within a couple of months by doing some small things like part time job, car washing, cleaning or dog walking ets while you are working on your primary business idea. Just do not rush and make small steps.
 

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