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WEB SCHOOL First time here.. Ive already made over 400 websites so...

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Barry_M

Barry_M

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Hi Stargazer / Dan.

I dont use worpress because the majority of my clients are non technical or like normal people, have limited technical abilities, so I make them bespoke systems that suit their abilities and exact needs. This in turns allows them to get the exact website and product they wanted and not some premade, cobbled together "make do" system, plus they can easily edit their own content without having to learn a shed load of new things ( eg.. the wordpress uphill struggle). If you adapt to suit your clients needs, instead of expecting your clients to adapt to what you have to offer, you will gain and retain more clients in the long term.
 

Merlox

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How much do you charge for a decent website and how do you determine the price? I see many people on upwork charging extremely low prices so I can't understand how you could go beyond that unless you have some massive network of referrals
 
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Barry_M

Barry_M

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How much do you charge for a decent website and how do you determine the price? I see many people on upwork charging extremely low prices so I can't understand how you could go beyond that unless you have some massive network of referrals
Hi Merlox. My charges depend on the amount of work I need to put in to the site. While I do have set packages as a guide so people get a rough idea what they may be charged, every job is priced according to how much work I think I will have to put in. I also provide SEO, photography, copywriting, hosting etc etc..

Can I ask, do you provide website design and if so do you use your own systems ?

(quick ninja edit)
I have been providing SEO since day one of my web design company. I used to be ranked 7th in the UK and 10th in the world for the term "web designers". I now focus on local companies as I like to (and they also prefer) the personal one to one service.
 

JRK

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What would your recommended strategy be for someone starting out to get clients?
 

Stargazer

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Any chance I can see your website? Either here in the thread or PM?

I don't need a website but sometimes meet people who do.

eg Yesterday I joined a Salsa class. They guys website is quite dire in my opinion. Very dark and gloomy looking.

Dan
 
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Barry_M

Barry_M

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Hi Dan. Just now I only make websites for companies in my home city. Makes life easier for me meeting clients so unless you live within 100 miles of me then although I really appreciate the offer, I wont be looking to take on any websites from your class right now. Also I would prefer to get a bit more comfortable on the forum before showing anyone my stuff. (looking at your profile though, you are probably around 500 miles from me as I do live in the UK)
 

FastNAwesome

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Welcome to the forum!

I also used to make bespoke CMS solutions for clients.

They were happy, but I didn't really like starting from scratch every time.

Which programming language do you use in the backend, and do you use any framework?
 
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Barry_M

Barry_M

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Hi FastNAwsome - I use php. I built the CMS from scratch but when making a new website I use a base template then adapt it to suit the clients needs, abilities and desired design direction.

When I install a new site, I have the server spin up a new site that is mobile ready etc then start to work on the design for them. I send them a sub domain to let them see how the site is going and get feedback from them about it. I also test the CMS on the to see how they get on with editing the site and change it based on how good they are at managing the site. If they are bad it it i remove toys. If they are good I give them bigger and better toys to play with, all the while assessing what they are doing and adapting it to suit.

This means most of the time that when the site is done, it is 99% bug free and is actually being used on a regular basis by them - instead of the usual "im too afraid to touch this" i see when I take on clients who had WordPress sites prior to getting me on board.
 

Mazzolini

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Hi Barry,

Ive been building Django applications for clients for about a year and have been slowly building up a decent portfolio, services, and company website. What did you find most effective for building your brand and finding new customers? Where’s there a certain moment when customers started flooding in?

Currently, I’m try to network and build funnels that will help bring in leads. I’m also looking to start a YouTube channel and build up my Instagram with relevant value add content to get my brand and name out there.
 

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MattR82

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Interesting. I only know WordPress really but am kind of amazed so many people are comfortable handing the reigns over to clients, even if they are given a bit of training. I'm still new to it all, but any clients I have had or even been in discussions with would be too scared to touch it as they would almost definitely break it.

I'm glad I learnt WordPress but am looking at working with an experienced developer with a team that works similar to what you do. WordPress really does look like a Frankensteins monster sometimes.
 
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Barry_M

Barry_M

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Hi Barry,

Ive been building Django applications for clients for about a year and have been slowly building up a decent portfolio, services, and company website. What did you find most effective for building your brand and finding new customers? Where’s there a certain moment when customers started flooding in?

Currently, I’m try to network and build funnels that will help bring in leads. I’m also looking to start a YouTube channel and build up my Instagram with relevant value add content to get my brand and name out there.
SEO is still and was the best way to find clients. Get to the top of Google and people will contact you. Its up to you to nail the deal though.
 
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Barry_M

Barry_M

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Interesting. I only know WordPress really but am kind of amazed so many people are comfortable handing the reigns over to clients, even if they are given a bit of training. I'm still new to it all, but any clients I have had or even been in discussions with would be too scared to touch it as they would almost definitely break it.

I'm glad I learnt WordPress but am looking at working with an experienced developer with a team that works similar to what you do. WordPress really does look like a Frankensteins monster sometimes.
Hi Matt. I dont hand over anything. I rent them a website system to edit their content. They own the front end. I own the IP and everything that is on the server.
 
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Barry_M

Barry_M

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Interesting, care to elaborate more about this renting system? :)
yea sure.. its what every other website company in the world who has any clout does. Make websites using a bespoke, home grown system then rent it out to people. Wordpress wont make you any money long term.

Set up a couple of custom web servers to run your CMS then rent it to people. BTW YOU MUST KEEP IT 100% stable. Thats pretty important and provide 100% support no matter what time of day it is.

BUT.. cool thing is if you do like I do and built completely bespoke systems based around peoples abilities they dont need help so you dont need to provide much support although if you tell people its all day and all night support, that provides a support that people know they can depend on but will never/ rarely use.

Simple.. Effective.
 
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Barry_M

Barry_M

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Jul 26, 2019
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Any chance I can see your website? Either here in the thread or PM?

I don't need a website but sometimes meet people who do.

eg Yesterday I joined a Salsa class. They guys website is quite dire in my opinion. Very dark and gloomy looking.

Dan

hey dan I dont know how to DM you man so please message me.
 

Mazzolini

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yea sure.. its what every other website company in the world who has any clout does. Make websites using a bespoke, home grown system then rent it out to people. Wordpress wont make you any money long term.

Set up a couple of custom web servers to run your CMS then rent it to people. BTW YOU MUST KEEP IT 100% stable. Thats pretty important and provide 100% support no matter what time of day it is.

BUT.. cool thing is if you do like I do and built completely bespoke systems based around peoples abilities they dont need help so you dont need to provide much support although if you tell people its all day and all night support, that provides a support that people know they can depend on but will never/ rarely use.

Simple.. Effective.
So what it sounds like is you create and design a customer website on your own cms framework made with php, sell them the website and rent the server and cms capabilities to them.
 

MattR82

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What do you think of Kirby?
 
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Barry_M

Barry_M

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So what it sounds like is you create and design a customer website on your own cms framework made with php, sell them the website and rent the server and cms capabilities to them.

@Mazzolini

Hi Mazzolini. This is correct (i have removed the rest of the post).

The reason for the removal and rewrite.

The post I had written gave the wrong impression of my business model and modern website design as a whole! My post suggested that this is an easy route to success and anyone can do it. This is not the case. I have spent 18 years building my systems and work on them daily. I spent the first 5 years with around 10 clients and was broke most of the time. If someone was to ask me if i recommend going in to website design, I would tell them DONT BE SO F*ckIN STUPID! Especially in the modern market. I have enough clients right now. For a person who has no experience in business (I had years of business experience is other fields before starting my website design business), and looking to make life changing profit and income from website design, stop the delusional dreaming. I bet your local market is flooded with so called web designers who has pushing out wordpress sites at less than $500 per site. This is not going to put food on the table.

Web design like one of the types of businesses @MJ DeMarco talks about in Unscripted. Also 99% of businesses have websites now so its not like 2002 when no one had websites and you can charge pretty much what ever you wanted.

My advice. Find something else to do. Website design is a dying business. Go to chapter 34 of Unscripted and learn from that. Its super important.
 
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Merlox

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Do you think you've reached the limit when it comes to working 1 on 1 with local clients? How would you scale? Thanks for sharing Barry, wish you the best.
 
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Barry_M

Barry_M

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Do you think you've reached the limit when it comes to working 1 on 1 with local clients? How would you scale? Thanks for sharing Barry, wish you the best.
Hi Merlox. No I do not. There are always new businesses starting up and they will need websites. As I make every site from scratch and I use my own CMS, my clients need very little support with anything so the amount of clients I have does not have an effect on the time I have to make websites. I am making 3 sites right now. I am not pushed or stressed about doing them.
 

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