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Making Money Online with Gambling

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Olimac21

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I am very curious to see if someone in the forum has experience making money with betting or playing poker online.

By coincidence today I found a course on tennis trade and although I do not plan to do this full time or imagine this will turn me into a millonaire, I have heard stories of people making a decent amount of money with bets in sports like football, basketball and tennis.

About poker I have no idea how much you can make without breaking your neck playing or taking too much risk for a positive outcome
 

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You can check Betfair Exchange (not Betfair regular sports betting).

For example, you BACK (buy) odd when it's 1,12 and LAY (sell) when it's 1,90 for example...and you can do it other way around. This is live exchange (betting). You can choose any sport you like. One of the most popular is UK horse racing.

I know people making $60k per tennis match or $3k per horse race.

You can trade in a way to get yourself in the position you win no matter who wins the race/match.

But for good trading you will need a 3rd party software that is approved by Betfair (one of the biggest betting company in the world).

Here is a good video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lvuk-wgZ8I
 

Patrick Jones

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I played online poker for several years, from 2008 on I think. You can start out with very little investment and work your way up to higher stakes.

The micro stakes (where you sit down at the table with $2) are very easy, but obviously with only cents at stake, you won't exactly clear a month's rent there. The higher limits ($100 and up) are much tougher and you will face competition with years of experience.

Most important "skill" to have is discipline. You can loose an evening's winnings in a minute of frustrated tilting.

Two good resources on the subject are 2+2 and PS:
Two Plus Two Poker Forum - Poker Strategy Forums
Online Poker Strategy School - PokerStrategy.com
 

Olimac21

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You can check Betfair Exchange (not Betfair regular sports betting).

For example, you BACK (buy) odd when it's 1,12 and LAY (sell) when it's 1,90 for example...and you can do it other way around. This is live exchange (betting). You can choose any sport you like. One of the most popular is UK horse racing.

I know people making $60k per tennis match or $3k per horse race.

You can trade in a way to get yourself in the position you win no matter who wins the race/match.

But for good trading you will need a 3rd party software that is approved by Betfair (one of the biggest betting company in the world).

Here is a good video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lvuk-wgZ8I
This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks mate!
 

Olimac21

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I played online poker for several years, from 2008 on I think. You can start out with very little investment and work your way up to higher stakes.

The micro stakes (where you sit down at the table with $2) are very easy, but obviously with only cents at stake, you won't exactly clear a month's rent there. The higher limits ($100 and up) are much tougher and you will face competition with years of experience.

Most important "skill" to have is discipline. You can loose an evening's winnings in a minute of frustrated tilting.

Two good resources on the subject are 2+2 and PS:
Two Plus Two Poker Forum - Poker Strategy Forums
Online Poker Strategy School - PokerStrategy.com
Thank you! Do you have any books recommendations to get started?
 

Patrick Jones

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msufan

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Yes, skill gaming and advantage gaming have been a $250K+ side income for me over the past 17 years (so only about $15K/year). It can definitely be done!
 

LittleMissFancy

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I am very curious to see if someone in the forum has experience making money with betting or playing poker online.

I've played poker recreationally both live and online for several years and can tell you that I don't personally know anyone currently making a living playing online poker however I know several who play live poker for a living (at a brick and mortar casino). Can it be done online? Sure, plenty do. But the time and energy spent playing, learning, studying, reviewing hands in your poker tracking software, etc. versus what you would likely make, wouldn't make the juice worth the squeeze in my opinion. You'd be better served putting that energy into another business that has the potential to grow into an operation in which you aren't trading your time for money.

Having said that, I enjoy learning the game and the deeper strategic nuances and playing poker as a hobby in my spare time for fun. I look at it as a fun way to have some friendly competition but I also track my results because I like to measure those kinda things! :cool:
 

LittleMissFancy

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Yes, skill gaming and advantage gaming have been a $250K+ side income for me over the past 17 years (so only about $15K/year). It can definitely be done!
Would you be interested in sharing more about your experience doing this? I'm super intrigued!
 

The Abundant Man

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Is this you?

(though it was Baccarat in the original novel)
 

richRich

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I've played poker recreationally both live and online for several years and can tell you that I don't personally know anyone currently making a living playing online poker however I know several who play live poker for a living (at a brick and mortar casino). Can it be done online? Sure, plenty do. But the time and energy spent playing, learning, studying, reviewing hands in your poker tracking software, etc. versus what you would likely make, wouldn't make the juice worth the squeeze in my opinion. You'd be better served putting that energy into another business that has the potential to grow into an operation in which you aren't trading your time for money.

Having said that, I enjoy learning the game and the deeper strategic nuances and playing poker as a hobby in my spare time for fun. I look at it as a fun way to have some friendly competition but I also track my results because I like to measure those kinda things! :cool:

Having played professionally live and offline I just can underline the points made above.

It may be fun at the beginning but can also quickly become a liability and repetitive as time goes by. You may feel sometimes as an assembly line worker. Being on this forum you might be more interested in ways to make money where you don't trade your (night-!) time for money.

Unless you plan a solid business model around that (staking other players, running your own [illegal] games, creating an educational portal/blog/books or building other passive income sources) you can also go educate yourself on something more stable and meaningful, like running SaaS businesses.
Your income will depend on the stakes you play. I had a very good run over one thousand hours in a live casino with 10 big blinds per hour which is a very high rate. Your winrate will drop the higher you go. If you play online you'll have a trade-off between playing many table with a lower rate or a higher rate with a few tables. Just google poker winrates to get a feeling if that is what you want to trade your time for.
 

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Jakeeck

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Don't do it is my advice. (poker)

I played professionally for a couple years. Made OK money. ^^ This guy right above me is a savage making that much, but not only is it extremely competitive now, but you're also competing against bots and AI that is getting smarter every single day, and those bots don't have emotions -- they don't tilt. They can play perfect poker all day.

Plus, it's not very fun to think about how the majority of your income is coming against degenerate addicted gamblers (the fish) sitting at stakes they can't afford to play.

Made me feel dirty in a way and that weighed on me as time went on.

Long story short, poker is almost dead, don't do it.
 

FreshNash

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Don't do it is my advice. (poker)

I played professionally for a couple years. Made OK money. ^^ This guy right above me is a savage making that much, but not only is it extremely competitive now, but you're also competing against bots and AI that is getting smarter every single day, and those bots don't have emotions -- they don't tilt. They can play perfect poker all day.

Plus, it's not very fun to think about how the majority of your income is coming against degenerate addicted gamblers (the fish) sitting at stakes they can't afford to play.

Made me feel dirty in a way and that weighed on me as time went on.

Long story short, poker is almost dead, don't do it.
I agree that making 200/250k per year is quite a lot with this actual situation in the poker scenario. The top 5 in the world make only 5M/year (and not legally). I say "only" because the effort needed to climb to the elite is insanely mad!
 

richRich

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I'm your man!
Professional Poker Player since 2014.
Currently making 15/20k/month, after years of studying strategies.

I'm planning to quit next year, too much stress and study compared to the money I earn!

So, you are out for our TMF-poker-night. Only solid fish allowed :hilarious:

Does your winrate come from playing online cash game?

Yeah, the stress factor is not to be underestimated: all the highs and lows in addition to the inhuman lifestyle (living at night, f*cked up casino food if you play live or social isolation if you play online etc.) can mess up your hormone system, unless you are well aware of all that and working on your mental/meta game as hard as on your strategy skills.
 
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Conrad

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I have done statistical experiments with online sports betting. You will lose in the long term, what ever you do. Look for trading & risk management, leverage trading...higher odds & losses can be controlled. You want to win in the long run.

EDIT: The only winner in the long run is the betting organizer :D
 

oa92

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I do matched betting and casino offers.

Matched betting is risk free and is simply taking advantage of bookies free bets (backing and laying opposing outcomes).

Casino offers is taking advantage of the casino offers where they give you free spins if you wager X amount. This relies on the expected value off the offers over a long period of time.

For about an hours work a day you can make about £1000 per month, but I know of some people who spend a lot more time on it and make way more than £1000 per month.
 

Olimac21

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I do matched betting and casino offers.

Matched betting is risk free and is simply taking advantage of bookies free bets (backing and laying opposing outcomes).

Casino offers is taking advantage of the casino offers where they give you free spins if you wager X amount. This relies on the expected value off the offers over a long period of time.

For about an hours work a day you can make about £1000 per month, but I know of some people who spend a lot more time on it and make way more than £1000 per month.
Exactly I got excited about the matched betting/arbing kind of thing because I saw a guy talking about it on Udemy and in a sport I really like/ understand the odds (tennis).

To make 1000 pounds per month, how much do you actually have to put on matched betting?
 

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oa92

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Exactly I got excited about the matched betting/arbing kind of thing because I saw a guy talking about it on Udemy and in a sport I really like/ understand the odds (tennis).

To make 1000 pounds per month, how much do you actually have to put on matched betting?

I make most of my money from the casino offers. The most lucrative matched betting offers are Bet365 2UP, ACCA offers, and the horse racing such as the William Hill 2 Clear offer.

It all depends on how big your bank is on how much you can make, if you put on a big back bet at the bookie you need a lot of money in the exchange for liability.
 

Maxboost

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Baccarat is the only game worth playing with a small house advantage of -1% EV. I think it's no different than day trading.

Online poker is the worse game to play since the competition is too good, you are better off playing in a live casino.
 

LA_Jau

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Ex-low stakes cash table grinder here. Reflecting exactly what other guys here have said, online poker is ridiculously competitive and you need insane robotic focus and discipline to maintain an edge. After playing millions of hands and an embarrassing number of hours on poker, I reckon I could have made similar money working a minimum wage job. = Slowlane

As for sports betting, I had fun 'career' making around £10k to help me through uni. But once again, it is all about the time, energy and focus you waste that could be spent learning how to make REAL money through business. = Slowlane

I only wish I could go back and force my 16 year old self to apply the same focus to entrepreneurship. Sure gambling can be a bit of fun, but as a way of making money, it's an obvious HYPERREALITY meant for the masses.

Hopefully other young men can see this thread to stop them from wasting their time like I did.

TLDR: Spend your time learning business, not gambling for the hope of thousands.

Good luck!
 

FreshNash

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So, you are out for our TMF-poker-night. Only solid fish allowed :hilarious:

Does your winrate come from playing online cash game?

Yeah, the stress factor is not to be underestimated: all the highs and lows in addition to the inhuman lifestyle (living at night, f*cked up casino food if you play live or social isolation if you play online etc.) can mess up your hormone system, unless you are well aware of all that and working on your mental/meta game as hard as on your strategy skills.

Only online cash game, yeah, and never been a tournament's fan! My main game is Heads up but nowaday it's definitely dead since in this speciality Bots are way too good! I had to switch to 6-max and fullring pretty fast :D

For the stress, you are right, it's quite hard to be balanced! An entrepreneur can focus on his job, follow some basic healty routines and do well. A Poker player who wants to compete in order to make >100k/year need to be f*cking accurate with his lifestyle. I personally have a lot of routines and my life is pretty strict. I meditate, I have a personal trainer for the gym workouts and one for the nutrition+supplements, I have a life coach (not a fake guru, a real therapist) for the downswing periods/burnouts, I live in a sunny city to take a lot of sun. Plus, I work on my strategic game and mental game everyday and I pay a personal coach 400$/h.

I feel that I'm doing too much for 250k/year lol
 

LittleMissFancy

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Only online cash game, yeah, and never been a tournament's fan! My main game is Heads up but nowaday it's definitely dead since in this speciality Bots are way too good! I had to switch to 6-max and fullring pretty fast :D

For the stress, you are right, it's quite hard to be balanced! An entrepreneur can focus on his job, follow some basic healty routines and do well. A Poker player who wants to compete in order to make >100k/year need to be F*cking accurate with his lifestyle. I personally have a lot of routines and my life is pretty strict. I meditate, I have a personal trainer for the gym workouts and one for the nutrition+supplements, I have a life coach (not a fake guru, a real therapist) for the downswing periods/burnouts, I live in a sunny city to take a lot of sun. Plus, I work on my strategic game and mental game everyday and I pay a personal coach 400$/h.

I feel that I'm doing too much for 250k/year lol

Wow, it sounds like you have your life down to as much as a science as possible. Being in a sunny city has got to be hugely beneficial considering you are spending so much time inside so when you have time to spend outdoors, cant risk it being crappy and cold :) How long do you see yourself continuing on the poker grind?
 

FreshNash

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Wow, it sounds like you have your life down to as much as a science as possible. Being in a sunny city has got to be hugely beneficial considering you are spending so much time inside so when you have time to spend outdoors, cant risk it being crappy and cold :) How long do you see yourself continuing on the poker grind?
If the plan A works, I'll be out at the end of this year!
 

msufan

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Would you be interested in sharing more about your experience doing this? I'm super intrigued!

I have made money through gaming in a variety of ways.

1. Skill gaming: sites like WorldWinner and RoyalGames were really good to me for a long time.
2. Online poker: I am not good enough to win at online poker nowadays, but it was a nice little run in the post-Moneymaker boom.
3. Daily Fantasy Sports: this was an advantage play for a bit, especially with promos and bonus money.
4. Online casinos: crazy as it sounds, even things like slot tournaments and bonus chasing can both be profitable over time.
5. Lottery: my state lottery has an online site with bonuses and offers that are +EV from time to time.

This is not Fastlane, but I use it to relax in place of watching TV or something mindless, and I essentially get paid a decent amount to have fun.
 

AgainstAllOdds

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I used to make $5-10k a year sports betting.

It wasn't worth doing full-time, but could be once sports betting is legalized.

Look at betting exchanges where the odds are better. Something like matchbook.com if you're allowed to play there.

Let's say the book takes 1%, then all you have to do is hit above 50.5% of your bets at even odds to make a profit.

If it's the typical 5%, then you have to hit above 52.5%. Those two percentage points can make all the difference over the course of a season. Something to keep in mind.

Oh, and stats. You need to get good at crunching numbers and figuring out where there's positive EV.

Good luck.
 
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Veloce Grey

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Echoing others here but for the vast majority of people it belongs in that "nice side interest" niche. The burnout rate is very high as our current/former poker pros have mentioned.

The effort and intelligence you'd put in to be decently profitable long term in most markets from the consumer side would generate far higher returns in a more conventional business, and obviously if you're building a business you can have something to sell when you want to exit.

Personally I'd still watch countless races per week if I had billions so it's not really an issue. But I found when I got offers to get involved in working harder with less freedom in a team environment it took any enjoyment out of it for me and I'd have been much richer but far less happy and quite possibly would have jumped out an office window at some point.
 

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