Your thoughts on our next moves? We invented an algorithm + accepted by 45 CPA networks

[contrastweb]

Hey everyone,

I'm new here as posted in my introduction thread, and I invented a proprietary technology powered by a series of algorithms which allows us to focus on intents in millions of ways through networks like Bing, Adwords, 7search amongst a few other. By intents, I mean that the algorithms can compute millions of ways a sentence could be written, and generate the most relevant ads in relation to those intents. By being able to compute millions of ads (each related to a specific intent) we're able to see what intents work, and what don't. It's a testing tool to discover little gems that you wouldn't normally find.

Once the user clicks on the ad, he's routed to a landing page that dynamically adjusts itself based on the keywords (intent) referred (words, shapes, colors, styles, images can all be dynamically adjusted on the fly, which as a result enhances relevancy even further). The user is always shown exactly what he searched for, and as a result convinces himself. We've also integrated built-in split testing tools using Google Experiments via API.

This added functionality required us to build our own landing page systems -- a total of about 2+ years of development to build out all these tools. Preliminary results show ad CTR's between 5-100%.

Now that the technology works, we're starting to explore the market of offers out there, and starting to learn the ropes of affiliate marketing -- aka funnels that perform. The goal is to maximize our opportunity in search, with all the offer types out there within the networks our technology is optimized for:

• Adwords for is very difficult with affiliate offers, and we're still uncertain if our approach of building out very strong / valuable LP's will pass through the cracks.
  
  
• Bing seems to be more lenient with affiliate offers.
  
  
• 7search doesn't have powerful negative targeting, so relevancy is diminished off the get-go.

We've been accepted to over 45 CPA networks, so we're able to get a good sense of the offer market. With this, we're beginning to make guidelines for both ourselves, and the affiliate manager of the networks -- to give a sense of what we can promote, and what we can't (nor want to).

• We don't want to touch the following (mainly because in Adwords/Bing we can't):
  • Adult content
  • Areas of questionable legality
  • Alcohol
  • Deceptive products and services
  • Defamatory, slanderous, libelous or threatening content
  • Drugs and related paraphernalia
  • Endangered and threatened species products or services
  • Financial products and services
  • Fireworks and explosives
  • Gambling products
  • Hate speech
  • Infant feeding
  • Peer-to-peer file sharing
  • Pharmacy products and services
  • Political and religious content
  • Sensitive advertising
  • Suffering and violence
  • Unregulated user-generated content
  • Usenet
  • Tobacco and electronic cigarettes
  • Weapons, knives, firearms and ammunition
• Any other type of offer that don't raise flags within Adwords/Bing -- we're up for them.

My question to the community is: what comes to your mind in regards to our opportunity with CPA offers. Any and all comments are welcome.

I'm also looking for suggestions to learn about the basic types of funnels that work well with affiliate offers.

Cheers,

Michal

 

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[Andy Black]

Hey everyone,

I'm new here as posted in my introduction thread, and I invented a proprietary technology powered by a series of algorithms which allows us to focus on intents in millions of ways through networks like Bing, Adwords, 7search amongst a few other. By intents, I mean that the algorithms can compute millions of ways a sentence could be written, and generate the most relevant ads in relation to those intents. By being able to compute millions of ads, which each relate to a specific intent, we're able to see what intents work, and what don't. It's a testing tool to discover little gems that you'd normally wouldn't find (because usually you can't compute so many ads automatically).

Once the user clicks on the ad, he's routed to a landing page that dynamically adjusts itself based on the keywords (intent) referred (words, shapes, colors, styles, images can all be dynamically adjusted on the fly, which as a result enhances relevancy even further). The user is always shown exactly what he searched for, and as a result convinces himself. We've also integrated build in split testing tools using Google Experiments via API.

This added functionality required us to build our own landing page systems -- a total of about 2+ years of development to build out all these tools. Preliminary results show ad CTR's between 5-100%.

Now that the technology works, we're starting to explore the market of offers out there, and starting to learn the ropes of affiliate marketing -- aka funnels that perform. The goal is to maximize our opportunity in search, with all the offer types out there within the networks our technology is optimized for:

• Adwords for is very difficult with affiliate offers, and we're still uncertain if our approach of building out very strong / valuable LP's will pass through the cracks.
  
  
• Bing seems to be more lenient with affiliate offers.
  
  
• 7search doesn't have powerful negative targeting, so relevancy is diminished off the get-go.

We've been accepted to over 45 CPA networks, so we're able to get a good sense of the offer market. With this, we're beginning to make guidelines for both ourselves, and the affiliate manager of the networks -- to give a sense of what we can promote, and what we can't (nor want to).

• We don't want to touch the following (mainly because in Adwords/Bing we can't):
  • Adult content
  • Areas of questionable legality
  • Alcohol
  • Deceptive products and services
  • Defamatory, slanderous, libelous or threatening content
  • Drugs and related paraphernalia
  • Endangered and threatened species products or services
  • Financial products and services
  • Fireworks and explosives
  • Gambling products
  • Hate speech
  • Infant feeding
  • Peer-to-peer file sharing
  • Pharmacy products and services
  • Political and religious content
  • Sensitive advertising
  • Suffering and violence
  • Unregulated user-generated content
  • Usenet
  • Tobacco and electronic cigarettes
  • Weapons, knives, firearms and ammunition
• Any other type of offer that don't raise flags within Adwords/Bing -- we're up for them.

My question to the community is: what comes to your mind in regards to our opportunity with CPA offers. Any and all comments are welcome.

I'm also looking for suggestions to learn about the basic types of funnels that work well with affiliate offers.

Cheers,

Michal

Hi Michal,

You've stumbled across a gold-mine of an entrepreneurial forum. Take off your coat and stay a while. Check out the Gold threads. You might start to see patterns in them.

You're like a hammer looking for a nail. I get it. I wield an AdWords hammer too. I can make AdWords work really well, and I've an engineering background also.

I get the impression that a difference between your strategies and mine are that you're coming at it from an algorithmic and big data direction. That's great, and if you can add the people element to it (and see the people behind the "traffic" and "clicks"), I'm sure you'll do very well.

Hmmm... Scrap that. I used to be an Oracle DBA looking after sales and financial datawarehouses. I'm algorithmic and big data too.

I just know from experience, that engineers can sometimes focus too much on building things.

Read some Gold threads to get a feel for the forum.

Maybe read the posts in my signature for another perspective on "media buying".

Good luck.

 

[JokerCrazyBeatz]

It wont take long for you to take over

 

[AndrewNC]

Hi Michal,

You've stumbled across a gold-mine of an entrepreneurial forum. Take off your coat and stay a while. Check out the Gold threads. You might start to see patterns in them.

You're like a hammer looking for a nail. I get it. I wield an AdWords hammer too. I can make AdWords work really well, and I've an engineering background also.

I get the impression that a difference between your strategies and mine are that you're coming at it from an algorithmic and big data direction. That's great, and if you can add the people element to it (and see the people behind the "traffic" and "clicks"), I'm sure you'll do very well.

Hmmm... Scrap that. I used to be an Oracle DBA looking after sales and financial datawarehouses. I'm algorithmic and big data too.

I just know from experience, that engineers can sometimes focus too much on building things.

Read some Gold threads to get a feel for the forum.

Maybe read the posts in my signature for another perspective on "media buying".

Good luck.

Do you see Figole being interested in his algorithm? More targeted + more conversions = more ad revenue for Google.

This type of thing is outside my space

 

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[contrastweb]

Hi Michal,

You've stumbled across a gold-mine of an entrepreneurial forum. Take off your coat and stay a while. Check out the Gold threads. You might start to see patterns in them.

You're like a hammer looking for a nail. I get it. I wield an AdWords hammer too. I can make AdWords work really well, and I've an engineering background also.

I get the impression that a difference between your strategies and mine are that you're coming at it from an algorithmic and big data direction. That's great, and if you can add the people element to it (and see the people behind the "traffic" and "clicks"), I'm sure you'll do very well.

Hmmm... Scrap that. I used to be an Oracle DBA looking after sales and financial datawarehouses. I'm algorithmic and big data too.

I just know from experience, that engineers can sometimes focus too much on building things.

Read some Gold threads to get a feel for the forum.

Maybe read the posts in my signature for another perspective on "media buying".

Good luck.

Thanks for the warm welcome Andy -- I definitely like these forums already, everyone seems to be a "go-getter".

I'm looking to learn how one could take the typical affiliate offer i.e. email / zip submit, installs, and convert those to work within search. You need to jump through quite a bit of hoops to funnel offers of this nature in networks like Adwords. Bing might be a bit easier, but it's always better to be safer than sorry. 7search you can pull off quite a bit, but then again you've got a weak traffic source with little negative targeting capabilities.

 

[Andy Black]

Thanks for the warm welcome Andy -- I definitely like these forums already, everyone seems to be a "go-getter".

I'm looking to learn how one could take the typical affiliate offer i.e. email / zip submit, installs, and convert those to work within search. You need to jump through quite a bit of hoops to funnel offers of this nature in networks like Adwords. Bing might be a bit easier, but it's always better to be safer than sorry. 7search you can pull off quite a bit, but then again you've got a weak traffic source with little negative targeting capabilities.

Ask yourself "Why?" you need to jump through these hoops. It helps if you think like Google.


Have you read the book?

 

[contrastweb]

Ask yourself "Why?" you need to jump through these hoops. It helps if you think like Google.


Have you read the book?

Google has been diminishing support for affiliates since 2010 -- they want valuable content in their ad network, and not some spammed Clickbank offer. They're simply trying to clean up their network to give their users the best experience. I think it's the right move from their end. They're asking advertisers to not be a copy of the next one.

So given the current rules with Adwords, advertisers looking to push affiliate offers really need to prove their value before linking the user to an offer (and even that can't be obvious). Bing on the other hand doesn't care as much (they actually still allow direct linking to offers) -- so it's much easier to go through them. But being a good marketer, you want to hit all the networks. It just happens that each network will have a different funnel, and I'm ok with that. I just want to learn more about the process of translating an affiliate offer (like an email submit) in the context of what's allowed with Adwords. It's a mix of understanding the target audience, intention, design, copywriting and the advertising policies of Adwords -- which I'm able to do, just looking for feedback from others who may have done it before, so that I could get a leg up on testing what works, and what doesn't.

I haven't read the book yet -- does it cover topics described above? Thanks for following up on my thread.

 

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[Andy Black]

Google has been diminishing support for affiliates since 2010 -- they want valuable content in their ad network, and not some spammed Clickbank offer. They're simply trying to clean up their network to give their users the best experience. I think it's the right move from their end. They're asking advertisers to not be a copy of the next one.

So given the current rules with Adwords, advertisers looking to push affiliate offers really need to prove their value before linking the user to an offer (and even that can't be obvious). Bing on the other hand doesn't care as much (they actually still allow direct linking to offers) -- so it's much easier to go through them. But being a good marketer, you want to hit all the networks. It just happens that each network will have a different funnel, and I'm ok with that. I just want to learn more about the process of translating an affiliate offer (like an email submit) in the context of what's allowed with Adwords. It's a mix of understanding the target audience, intention, design, copywriting and the advertising policies of Adwords -- which I'm able to do, just looking for feedback from others who may have done it before, so that I could get a leg up on testing what works, and what doesn't.

I haven't read the book yet -- does it cover topics described above? Thanks for following up on my thread.

No, the book isn't about how to run affiliate offers. There are successful affiliates in here of course, but the focus is on building a business (with the focus on providing value first).

I don't touch affiliate work. My clients are all bricks and mortars businesses... just as Google likes them.

 

[craig1928]

the process of translating an affiliate offer (like an email submit) in the context of what's allowed with Adwords.

the context you are looking for does not exist with these types of offers on Adwords, period.

 

[contrastweb]

the context you are looking for does not exist with these types of offers on Adwords, period.

Thanks for going straight to the point and being the only one to properly answer my question, it's what I assumed. I'll move forward with building valuable brands, like Adwords policies now require.

 

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[contrastweb]

I would suggest working on your "elevator pitch"...

It's not clear to me what you've built and exactly what it is supposed to accomplish. You mention the ability to parse search terms for intent. Then you mention the ability to create millions of ads based on metadata. Then you mention the ability to customize landing pages on the fly. Clearly, you're trying to develop something that will allow you to better monetize affiliate revenue, but it's not clear exactly how you're trying to do that. And it also sounds like you haven't thought through an implementation strategy yet -- technology in a vacuum in worthless.

First, do you have protectable IP? If so, protect it.

Second, I would recommend finding someone in the affiliate space who you believe could benefit from the technology and try to put together a proof of concept. That person should be able to help you refine the technology to actually be useful, at which point you can roll it out in whatever format is appropriate and to whatever customers are appropriate.

Btw, there is another thread going on about what is more important -- a great idea or great execution. This thread is a perfect example of how ideas are meaningless without execution. If you don't have the ability to execute on this idea, find someone who can and have them join your team...

Thanks for taking the time to read and share insights.

I'm not looking to sell not promote anything here, so no need for an elevator pitch. The individuals that have the necessary experience with Adwords will be able to answer based on the information provided above. I unfortunately can't go into more details as I'd get into the nitty gritty details of the algorithms.

• The implementation has been thought out, we're just weighing out options.

• The proof of concept has already been done. The MVP has been proven in market too. It's a matter of making the best use of the tool, and that requires evaluation, which I'm doing with this thread.

craig1928 answered directly.

Cheers,

Michal

 

[eliquid]

I would suggest working on your "elevator pitch"...

It's not clear to me what you've built and exactly what it is supposed to accomplish. You mention the ability to parse search terms for intent. Then you mention the ability to create millions of ads based on metadata. Then you mention the ability to customize landing pages on the fly. Clearly, you're trying to develop something that will allow you to better monetize affiliate revenue, but it's not clear exactly how you're trying to do that. And it also sounds like you haven't thought through an implementation strategy yet -- technology in a vacuum in worthless.

First, do you have protectable IP? If so, protect it.

Second, I would recommend finding someone in the affiliate space who you believe could benefit from the technology and try to put together a proof of concept. That person should be able to help you refine the technology to actually be useful, at which point you can roll it out in whatever format is appropriate and to whatever customers are appropriate.

Btw, there is another thread going on about what is more important -- a great idea or great execution. This thread is a perfect example of how ideas are meaningless without execution. If you don't have the ability to execute on this idea, find someone who can and have them join your team...

Funny enough, the thread you mention is a perfect example of how ideas are more important than execution.

If execution is so much more JScott, why are you advising him to protect his IP if it isnt protected already. I mean, it is all about the execution as you say.

If ideas are meaningless, he doesnt need to protect it.

But as we see, ideas are worth a lot more.

 

[contrastweb]

Funny enough, the thread you mention is a perfect example of how ideas are more important than execution.

If execution is so much more JScott, why are you advising him to protect his IP if it isnt protected already. I mean, it is all about the execution as you say.

If ideas are meaningless, he doesnt need to protect it.

But as we see, ideas are worth a lot more.

Agreed. This isn't an idea anymore either, it's a proven MVP with amazing results, looking for its best application. I'd never would've had looked for an execution strategy on an unproven product. Now that it's proven, the fun part begins: look for markets that'll maximize from the invention.

As far as protecting IP: it's not worth it in the case. The cons outweigh the pros. I met with patent lawyers and they all advised against it. You patent this tech and you give away the algorithm which once executed by someone else cannot be proven that it was used. The web + patents is very grey. Better off capitalizing on the opportunity quietly, and move on in life/business.

Everyone has the perfect execution without an idea worth executing. I'd much rather be in a position where I have opportunity with a bright MVP, and have fun exploring markets knowing no one could compete-with.

But to get back on track with the point of the thread: it seems like Adwords policies require valuable brands to be built, which make it difficult to stick in typical affiliate offers within the funnel.

 

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