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Do you consider Mav's, Victor Pride's, and Brian Tracy's business advice credible?

  • Yes, all three of them

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Only Maverick Traveler's

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Only Victor Pride's

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Only Brian Tracy's

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • None of them are credible - they're all Slowlane gurus

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Total voters
    10

TheFrancophile

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Hello everyone !

After a pause of a few weeks, I'm back, and I'd like to ask you for your opinion about three success gurus : James Maverick, Victor Pride, and Brian Tracy.

Learned A Lot From Them

I confess that I've actually learned a lot from all three of them, at least as far as general lifestyle/personal improvement is concerned. I've especially learned a lot from Maverick's first book, The Sovereign Man. I don't think it would be an overstatement to say it changed my life.

But when it comes to what they preach about creating and leading one's own business, I'm unsure (indeed, sceptical) whether to believe them. Bc I've also read MJ's book and, alas, what they preach often conflicts with what MJ preaches.

Maverick and VP do say, as MJ does, that working for someone else (esp. in the corporate world) is slavery; it's trading your most precious commodity (time) for some money while making sb else rich. Accordingly, both say you must quit your job and start your own business.

Both of them also warn that, at the outset, there will be years of sacrifice, toil, sweat, blood, and tears before you become wealthy, and that failure is part of the learning process; and that you must eliminate all self-limiting beliefs like "I can't do it" and "I don't have the time".

This, unfortunately, is where the similarity with MJ's book and videos ends.

What These Guys Preach
1. Follow Your Passions/Obsessions!

Firstly, these guys say that you can, and should, follow your PASSIONS (Pride uses the word "obsession" when creating your own business. Take this article from Maverick's blog:

"This is the only formula that truly works. It’s the only way to build real wealth. That’s because the easiest way to consistently fail and become miserable in life is to do the complete opposite. It’s to ignore what matters to you and do something that’s not linked to your interests or passions. It’s to do something because of some abstract goal like “want to be rich” or “want to make lots of money.”"

VP says the same thing, although in different words :

"I don't like the word passion, that's a word for women's romance novels, the correct word is obsession. You have to live like an obsessed freak.

When you’re obsessed you start working on something at 6am and the next thing you know it’s 5pm – you haven’t eaten, you haven’t gone anywhere, you haven’t been to the gym, you haven’t showered, and you haven’t heard the phone ringing. And you keep doing it.

If you can be obsessed with it for long enough you can turn it into money."

Did you hear that? Victor Pride is essentially saying that you can turn any passion/obsession into a money printer - even if no one wants to buy what you're selling!*

How does that jibe with what MJ has said on the subject? Maybe the Big Man Himself would like to comment on this? :)

2. No Free Time - Ever !

Secondly, the type of business that VP is encouraging you to start and lead sounds like a job masquerading as a business. In several of his articles, he has said explicitly that if you want to own a business, if you want to get rich, if you want to be your own boss, you will have to work every day for the rest of your life, no exceptions. Not just during the founding and growth phase of your business' existence - EVER. You can NEVER take a single day off, he says:

"If you want to be your own boss and make your own rules there is one thing that is absolutely required of you, that one thing is sweat equity. Your time. Your effort. (...) There is no such thing as a day off for a great man."

That doesn't sound like a Fastlane business, or like a way to get rich, to me. Does it to you? I thought the whole point of the Fastlane was to work all day, all week now, for the next several years, so that you can ultimately change enough people's lives (with products or services) that they will reward you with enough money to enable you to retire early and then have infinite free time. (If I got it wrong, please correct me.)

Businesses of the sort that VP wants you to start and lead are actually jobs masquerading as businesses, because they work on EXACTLY the same basis as "normal" jobs do : your most precious commodity (time) exchanged for money. You don't work, you don't earn a cent. That's not a money tree, that's just a job.

If you're not making enough money to live comfortably, what is Victor Pride's solution ?

Take a guess ?

Yeah, you guessed it, it's the same Slowlane solution : work more! Do like Azur from MJ's Egyptian history did!

"All I ever did was simply work more and not quit", says Victor.

This is wrong not just bc it's Slowlane, but also because it simply eats even more time than a 9-5 job. You not only don't get rich, you sacrifice ALL of your life rather than a part of it.

Now, I know that many people here, especially Americans and Brits, will disagree with me, but work is not all there is to life. You have to reach a work/life balance. Of course, that will have to be put on hold while you build your business, but the whole point of the Fastlane, if I got it right, was to ultimately have ALL of your time free while letting your money tree work for you.

Our most precious commodity is time. Not money. Wasted money can be replaced; wasted time, never. If you spend all your life working - for yourself or sb - without ever enjoying your free time, you're just going to waste your life.

That's not Fastlane and it's not financial freedom, it's slavery to your job (masquerading as a business) !

That 7-0 servitude is even worse than corporate five days a week slavery!

When you die, will you wish you had more money or more time to live? Well, an Australian palliative care nurse already has an answer to that question. She has cared for THOUSANDS of terminally-ill people. The second most frequent regret of these dying people was, "I wish I hadn't worked so hard/so long."

Guess how many people said, "I regret not having made enough money" ?

Any guess?

One person? Two people? Five? Ten?

ZERO. That's right. Zero. Aucune. Nada. Keine Person.

As that Titanic officer said in the Titanic movie, and as MJ reminds us, when you die, your money can't save you.

3. Never Quit! Ever!

Now, what if your business idea doesn't work, doesn't make any profits, because nobody is buying?

Well, VP and Brian Tracy say, "never quit", for any reason whatsoever. Even if your idea clearly HASN'T panned out. If you quit, you're a quitter, a weakling and a coward.

"If you never give in and quit, if you possess endurance, you will be victorious. (...) So never never never give up. You must show up, you must put in the time."

Again, what has MJ said about the subject... ? Uh.... oh yeah, I remember.

4. Save Money and You'll Get Rich

This applies only to Brian Tracy; he says that you can get wealthy in the long term by saving money and investing in the stock market, an IRA, and other saving methods authorized by the IRS. (Well, how noble and gracious of you, IRS, that you allow me to save my own hard-earned money! How infinitely grateful am I to you, my fiscal overlord!)

Slowlane or Fastlane Advice?
Now, I don't want to badmouth anyone, least of all Maverick, from whom I have learned A LOT. But does the above advice sound like Fastlane to you? Or does it sound like the same things that many other Slowlane Gurus preach?

Do these guys really do what they preach? I doubt it. Mav earns money by selling apps and and mentorship programs plus royalties from his three books (all of which are great, BTW - I've read the first 2 and am reading the third one these days). VP and BT also make money from their books, plus, of course, speaking fees in the latter's case. Problem is, their mentorship programs and seminars sound like they're done to make them rich rather than make other people become better people.

What do you think, folks?
--------------------------
*BTW, so says Maverick in advertising his Maverick Bootcamp program, although to be fair, once you sign up for it, he does tell you (as does MJ) that you need to determine where demand exists for something and think honestly about what unique value you can contribute to other people's lives. Value that no one else is currently providing.
 

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Waspy

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Disclaimer did not read all of that in deatail. But let's look at the headlines:

Follow your passion

This generally is poor advice. It works for some people who are EXCEPTIONAL at their passion and their passion fills a need. But generally, no. Replace with -

Follow market needs

No days off - ever

If you want to start and run a business then this is great advice for getting started. However then it just becomes non-sense. Your life is for living. The teachings of the fastlane lead you to a life by which you can enjoy retirement much earlier than most, and with far more money. If you are working on your business every day of your life until you die, stay in the slowlane, it will be less stressful. Replace with -

Create a system which allows you to detach your time from your money (hard work required)

Never quit, ever.

This is great advice. Providing you know when you have entered a market which has no legs. Staying in a needless market but "never quitting" is folly. Replace with -

Never accept failure as permanent.

Save money and you will get rich

Hahahah this is just classic slowlane. Replace with-

Build a fastlane vehicle and invest the rewards once they are no longer needed for growth. This will protect you when you chose to exit and retire.


TLDR; Create a business which follows the NECTS rules. Stop listening to gurus.
 

Argue

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TheFrancophile

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Why have I asked?

Well, for one thing, this is a discussion forum, and I thought such forums exist so that ppl could exchange opinions...

But more importantly, I wanted to hear your opinions, folks, about these three men and what they preach. Because they preach about an issue that is very important to all of us (entrepreneurship) and what they say seems to be, on several key points, totally contrary to what MJ teaches.
 

Mattie

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obsessed you start working
Better phrase yet, "Laser focused". :)
2. No Free Time - Ever
This I tried already. Good way to make your body unhealthy. Two years and I already learned this doesn't work in the benefit of your health long-term. If you have no health, you're pretty much screwed.
Never quit, ever.
I believe there's different ways you can look at this. 1. Never quit ever on yourself. 2. Never quit working towards the goal. There might be a time you need to quit a business. I learned this from an Entrepreneur back home, who stated, if you done everything you can, and it's a bigger loss than a gain, than move on to a better project.
Passion means different things to different people. I'm a passionate entrepreneur. I naturally have the drive to compete, challenge myself, and get out of my comfort zone. This doesn't necessarily mean I will be passionate about everything I do and achieve.
Save Money and You'll Get Rich
Now this is a no-brainer. How many people do you know who save money, and are not wealth today?

I believe to a certain point it is like this. There are 7.5 billion people on the planet. I have no idea how many guru's there are, but frankly bottom line the world is filled with information. You have to decide what works for you in your experience. There are so many different perspectives, you will have to one day decide to trust yourself to decipher what the right information is for your business and life. Fortunately, you can read every book in the world, stack them up in a room, and when you're done reading them all, you still will be asking the question what's the right answer.

Ten Guru's can give you ten answers, you still have to trust yourself to decipher what may or may not work.
 

Fox

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This seems like marketing for this Maverick guy, you mention his products, link to his blog, mention his boot camp and then use Brian and VP to make it seem balanced.

Do you have any connection to him?
 

wade1mil

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There's a difference between "work on your passion" and "be passionate about your work."
No free time ever is a great way to hate your life. Your mind and body need rest, and a break can energize you.
 

Kung Fu Steve

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I don't post as much these days but I'm surely lurking here and there... I feel like a grumpy gus coming in here to rain on the parade but why are there so many people arguing about which "guru" does what? Who cares? Why aren't you working right now?

If you're looking for a blueprint, most of them have made money in business (well, some of them). Follow the blue print and take action.

If you are honestly asking and not blatantly trying to promote your stuff then there's some key distinctions you've missed. You read the words -- but you didn't understand them.

1. Follow Your Passions/Obsessions!

Firstly, these guys say that you can, and should, follow your PASSIONS (Pride uses the word "obsession" when creating your own business. Take this article from Maverick's blog:

"This is the only formula that truly works. It’s the only way to build real wealth. That’s because the easiest way to consistently fail and become miserable in life is to do the complete opposite. It’s to ignore what matters to you and do something that’s not linked to your interests or passions. It’s to do something because of some abstract goal like “want to be rich” or “want to make lots of money.”"

VP says the same thing, although in different words :

"I don't like the word passion, that's a word for women's romance novels, the correct word is obsession. You have to live like an obsessed freak.

When you’re obsessed you start working on something at 6am and the next thing you know it’s 5pm – you haven’t eaten, you haven’t gone anywhere, you haven’t been to the gym, you haven’t showered, and you haven’t heard the phone ringing. And you keep doing it.

If you can be obsessed with it for long enough you can turn it into money."

Did you hear that? Victor Pride is essentially saying that you can turn any passion/obsession into a money printer - even if no one wants to buy what you're selling!*

Being passionate about something is required. Passion is energy, energy is life. You may not be passionate about every aspect of your business but you damn well better be passionate about the key areas that affect the bottom line.

Obsession is also required. Obsession to create a better product or service. Obsession to be the best in the market place. Obsession to provide more value than anyone would expect or deliver.

You are right when you say your passions such as amateurishly playing the guitar or painting or interpretive dance isn't going to make you any money...

...however the key distinction is amateur. Not professional. If you were TRULY obsessed. If you were TRULY passionate. Where you put in the 10,000 hours of practice at a level of determination and focus that made you a master... hell, maybe add another 10,000 hours of practice if you suck. That means approximately 14 years of obsessed practice and determination to get better every single day -- that is obsession.

Secondly, the type of business that VP is encouraging you to start and lead sounds like a job masquerading as a business. In several of his articles, he has said explicitly that if you want to own a business, if you want to get rich, if you want to be your own boss, you will have to work every day for the rest of your life, no exceptions. Not just during the founding and growth phase of your business' existence - EVER. You can NEVER take a single day off, he says:

"If you want to be your own boss and make your own rules there is one thing that is absolutely required of you, that one thing is sweat equity. Your time. Your effort. (...) There is no such thing as a day off for a great man."

Duh. To any real business owner this is a given. You must take action to produce results -- and if you want massive results? Take massive action.

That doesn't sound like a Fastlane business, or like a way to get rich, to me. Does it to you? I thought the whole point of the Fastlane was to work all day, all week now, for the next several years, so that you can ultimately change enough people's lives (with products or services) that they will reward you with enough money to enable you to retire early and then have infinite free time. (If I got it wrong, please correct me.)

Re-read the Fastlane book. Especially the part about MJ sleeping on the floor and spending 24/7 at his computer implementing and improving on every bit of customer feedback he received. About how he slogged through lead after lead to ensure he had a quality product to provide. About how he went above and beyond for every single one of his customers and users.

You must've missed that part?

Businesses of the sort that VP wants you to start and lead are actually jobs masquerading as businesses, because they work on EXACTLY the same basis as "normal" jobs do : your most precious commodity (time) exchanged for money. You don't work, you don't earn a cent. That's not a money tree, that's just a job.

Name a single business that doesn't start as a "job" -- or more accurately put as our goofy buddy would say in the "Self-Employed Quadrant"?


Yeah, you guessed it, it's the same Slowlane solution : work more! Do like Azur from MJ's Egyptian history did!

"All I ever did was simply work more and not quit", says Victor.

This is wrong not just bc it's Slowlane, but also because it simply eats even more time than a 9-5 job. You not only don't get rich, you sacrifice ALL of your life rather than a part of it.

Any success requires this. Period.

Now, I know that many people here, especially Americans and Brits, will disagree with me, but work is not all there is to life. You have to reach a work/life balance. Of course, that will have to be put on hold while you build your business, but the whole point of the Fastlane, if I got it right, was to ultimately have ALL of your time free while letting your money tree work for you.

I won't argue with your belief systems. I agree life isn't all about work. However having to work and wanting to work are two different things.

Our most precious commodity is time. Not money. Wasted money can be replaced; wasted time, never. If you spend all your life working - for yourself or sb - without ever enjoying your free time, you're just going to waste your life.

Agreed.

That 7-0 servitude is even worse than corporate five days a week slavery!

Entrepreneurship is essentially trading your 40 hour work weeks in for 80 hour work weeks until you create something sustainable or saleable.

Well, VP and Brian Tracy say, "never quit", for any reason whatsoever. Even if your idea clearly HASN'T panned out. If you quit, you're a quitter, a weakling and a coward.

"If you never give in and quit, if you possess endurance, you will be victorious. (...) So never never never give up. You must show up, you must put in the time."

You're taking that out of context.

This applies only to Brian Tracy; he says that you can get wealthy in the long term by saving money and investing in the stock market, an IRA, and other saving methods authorized by the IRS. (Well, how noble and gracious of you, IRS, that you allow me to save my own hard-earned money! How infinitely grateful am I to you, my fiscal overlord!)

Now, I don't want to badmouth anyone, least of all Maverick, from whom I have learned A LOT. But does the above advice sound like Fastlane to you? Or does it sound like the same things that many other Slowlane Gurus preach?

Do these guys really do what they preach? I doubt it. Mav earns money by selling apps and and mentorship programs plus royalties from his three books (all of which are great, BTW - I've read the first 2 and am reading the third one these days). VP and BT also make money from their books, plus, of course, speaking fees in the latter's case. Problem is, their mentorship programs and seminars sound like they're done to make them rich rather than make other people become better people.

What do you think, folks?

You're absolutely right on this. There are many people out there who tell people to do one thing yet they do the opposite. The best advice I feel I can give is always watch how they act, not what they say.

*BTW, so says Maverick in advertising his Maverick Bootcamp program, although to be fair, once you sign up for it, he does tell you (as does MJ) that you need to determine where demand exists for something and think honestly about what unique value you can contribute to other people's lives. Value that no one else is currently providing.

Glad you're here to provide us with your affiliate link!

...

Listen -- I hope this doesn't come off harsh... or maybe I do... but if there's anyone else reading this here's what I'd like to say:

Stop taking all of this stuff out of context. Most of the books, courses, seminars, everything out there is complete and utter crap... HOWEVER -- if you can take ONE thing from them -- it's worth your time and money.

If you can open your eyes a little and see how what they say might apply to YOUR situation -- you've benefited.

The new "action fake" seems to be discussing these gurus and what they can and cannot give you. The only thing anyone can give you is what you're willing to receive.

Good luck out there.
 

ZF Lee

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How about Ramit Sethi, James Altucher? I always wanted to ask a question on this forum about them :)
Ramit Sethi has good pointers on building an online audience for ecommerce via blogging, copywriting and free giveaways. He has other 'Slowlane' tips on getting a raise, lowering your bills and finance, but at some point they do work for defense. Take the cream out of him. However, I might prefer Neil Patel for his more vibrant and specialist content. Patel's Kissmetrics and personal blog are very well equipped.

James Altucher has done an AMA here before. Lots of gold nuggets. Here is the link:
Notable! - Fastlane AMA: James Altucher; Startups, Publishing, Bloggin More...

His blog is full of his life experiences from failing 17 out of 20 businesses, involved in trading for higher-ups and writing. If not for his prior failures due to his cash splurges, he might well be more intimidating than MJ.
 

TheFrancophile

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I will respond in detail to your comments later, folks (if time allows), but first off, I wish to make one thing absolutely clear.
This seems like marketing for this Maverick guy, you mention his products, link to his blog, mention his boot camp and then use Brian and VP to make it seem balanced.

Do you have any connection to him?
Absolutely none at all. I don't even know the guy personally. And the only reason I've asked here is because what these gurus preach is, on key points, totally at odds with what MJ says in his book and in the video I linked to.

BTW, I've read AND understood the book and those guys' articles, thank you very much. No need to patronize.

Now, Kung Fu Steve, you said :

"You are right when you say your passions such as amateurishly playing the guitar or painting or interpretive dance isn't going to make you any money...

...however the key distinction is amateur. Not professional. If you were TRULY obsessed. If you were TRULY passionate. Where you put in the 10,000 hours of practice at a level of determination and focus that made you a master... hell, maybe add another 10,000 hours of practice if you suck. That means approximately 14 years of obsessed practice and determination to get better every single day -- that is obsession."

So, according to you (and Victor Pride), if I am professional at my passion/obsession, I can turn it into a money printer.

Problem is, this is sadly not the case, and this is NOT what MJ says in his book. It seems, my friend, that you haven't read all of it - esp. the chapter when he talks about people's professional passions not paying off - e.g. the martial arts instructor and the gym instructors not making much money because the demand for such professionals is too low (while the supply is abundant). Those were PROFESSIONALS, not amateurs. And yet, they still failed. Because, as MJ says in his book AND in so many videos, the market doesn't give a damn about your passions/obsessions.

Points go to me on this one.

Next, you said that :

"Re-read the Fastlane book. Especially the part about MJ sleeping on the floor and spending 24/7 at his computer implementing and improving on every bit of customer feedback he received. About how he slogged through lead after lead to ensure he had a quality product to provide. About how he went above and beyond for every single one of his customers and users.

You must've missed that part?"

No, I didn't miss anything. You did. You missed the part where MJ wrote that he nowadays devotes only 5% of his time to work (on his money tree) while having 95% of his time free. Sure, he did work all day, for many years, on his business, but now he's retired (30 years early). He doesn't work all day, all night anymore.

BTW, did MJ really spent 24 hours a day, every day, for several years on his money tree? Not a minute of sleep? Come on, you gotta be kidding :)

"Name a single business that doesn't start as a "job" -- or more accurately put as our goofy buddy would say in the "Self-Employed Quadrant"?


This is wrong not just bc it's Slowlane, but also because it simply eats even more time than a 9-5 job. You not only don't get rich, you sacrifice ALL of your life rather than a part of it.
Any success requires this. Period."

Yeah, for the duration of the time it takes to create a blossoming money tree it surely does. OTOH, what Victor Pride is saying is that you'll have to do it for the rest of your freakin' life. Until death. That's not Fastlane, that's a classic Slowlane. And it won't get anyone rich. Ever.

"Entrepreneurship is essentially trading your 40 hour work weeks in for 80 hour work weeks until you create something sustainable or saleable."

But that's not what Victor Pride says. What he says is "you'll have to work 24/7 until the day you die, with not a single day of rest." To make it perfectly clear, here's what he said at the end of his article :

"So you've achieved greatness, huh? Great.

Whatever you do, don't stop now.

What do I always say a million billion times?

Don't. Ever. Stop."

"You're absolutely right on this. There are many people out there who tell people to do one thing yet they do the opposite. The best advice I feel I can give is always watch how they act, not what they say."

And alas, they seem to preach the classic "do as I say, not as I do." They don't live what they preach.

And to end, just to make it clear: I'm not trying to convince anyone, or asking anyone for assurances, that creating a hugely profitable business (or any business for that matter) is going to be anything but several years (at least) of hard work. I'm not a stranger to hard work (to say the least). But, as MJ points out, the whole point of the Fastlane is to create a money tree that will eventually work for you without you having to work all day on it. According to VP, that sweet reward will NEVER happen.

The absolutely most fundamental teaching of MJ's book is that in the Fastlane, wealth creation does NOT depend on the time you work, but on the value of what you've created multiplied by the number of people touched by that.

E.g. I spend 2 years writing a best-selling book and then I don't have to work bc my book sells tens of millions of copies.

But if you have to work every day, for the rest of your life, to make wealth, you're a Slowlaner, not a Fastlaner, because whether you make money or not depends entirely on whether you work or not. How much you make depends on how much you work. Your time for someone else's money.

And as I said - and as MJ teaches - this is a road to MEDIOCRITY, not wealth. It's the classic Slowlane, NOT the Fastlane. For it is time, not money, that is the most precious resource that we have.
 
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jlwilliams

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They all have something to offer, but none of them are The Messiah. It seems like there needs to be some middle ground between "this guy is right" and "this guy is wrong." Case in point, Maverick wrote a book that had a huge and positive influence on your life. Awesome! MJ did too. So freaking what if those two write some things that contradict each other. Take what fits you from both and discard what doesn't work for you. TMFL is a great book and it changed the way I look at some things. I'm grateful to have read it and I respect what MJ Demarco has done. That said, it's not the Bible. Please don't get torches and pitchforks ready for any author who writes a word that contradicts TMFL.

Some people are not cut out for "the fast lane." Some people really thrive best in a job. Those people need to lay out a strategy to save and invest. Gurus who preach the word of credit discipline and maxing out the 401-k are helping plenty of people.

I know many successful people who swear by the "follow your passion" mantra and many who do well in industries they see solely as a vehicle for their goals. Which approach fits you? Not my call.

Take what works from where you find it, and don't swallow crap no matter who coughs it up.
 

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1. Follow Your Passions/Obsessions!

2. No Free Time - Ever !

3. Never Quit! Ever!

4. Save Money and You'll Get Rich
.
1. This advice is given by many gurus. While it might make your life more fulfilling, it isn't likely to make you rich. Maybe it is more fulfilling to you doing something you are passionate about your whole life without getting rich? If you engange in a business, you're not passionate about it's very unlikely that you follow through. A vague vision of "being rich and free someday" is probably not enough. MJ was obsessed with finding a way to get rich. And he did. His take on it is to get rich first and do then whatever the f* you are passionate about. You have to decide for yourself which philosophy resonates with you the most.

2. It's a lot of work to get your business going and you won't have much free time in the beginning. That comes with the automation later on.

3. Never quit on your vision to build a Fastlane business. That doesn't necessarily be the one you are persuing the first time. Don't keep doing something that doesn't work. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of madness. Therefore test your ideas first and obey the CENTS commandments.

4. That is slowlane right there. That attitude is better than the one of a sidewalker who spends everything he has and more. This advice is given so often because for most people it's much more attainable. It is a safe and long way to get rich, but it might work in the end - if you start early enough and if you don't have large expenses in your life like most people like to have that new car that you "need" - that house that you "deserve". The Fastlane isn't for everyone. Not long ago I heard only 1 of 200 startups succeed. Most need several tries until they succeed. Again if you obey the Fastlane commandments it's much more likely that you'll succeed. It's possible, but it still remains the exception.
 

Kung Fu Steve

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I will respond in detail to your comments later, folks (if time allows), but first off, I wish to make one thing absolutely clear.

Absolutely none at all. I don't even know the guy personally. And the only reason I've asked here is because what these gurus preach is, on key points, totally at odds with what MJ says in his book and in the video I linked to.

Fair enough. You never know around here. Lots of jokers running around!

BTW, I've read AND understood the book and those guys' articles, thank you very much. No need to patronize.

Never meant to patronize. Apologies if it came off that way.

So, according to you (and Victor Pride), if I am professional at my passion/obsession, I can turn it into a money printer.

Maker, not printer.

Problem is, this is sadly not the case, and this is NOT what MJ says in his book. It seems, my friend, that you haven't read all of it - esp. the chapter when he talks about people's professional passions not paying off - e.g. the martial arts instructor and the gym instructors not making much money because the demand for such professionals is too low

It seemed to work well for me. However I sold that business approximately 6 years ago now.

(while the supply is abundant). Those were PROFESSIONALS, not amateurs. And yet, they still failed. Because, as MJ says in his book AND in so many videos, the market doesn't give a damn about your passions/obsessions.

The 80/20 here is probably important to take into account. Or probably more accurately 99/1. I just happened to be one of the 1% in my craft. But I was psychotically obsessed with being the best. Better than anything the market had to offer. I believe anyone can reach that level but the level of obsession you must have to be there is well beyond people's comprehension. I can't even translate the amount of blood, sweat, and tears that went into becoming that.

Points go to me on this one.

Rep up!


No, I didn't miss anything. You did. You missed the part where MJ wrote that he nowadays devotes only 5% of his time to work (on his money tree) while having 95% of his time free. Sure, he did work all day, for many years, on his business, but now he's retired (30 years early). He doesn't work all day, all night anymore.

We're saying the same thing here. It's the difference between the process and the event. What did it ultimately take to buy that level of financial freedom?

I think after you "hit it big" now you start working because you want to, not because you have to. But from my own experience and several of my buddies you work twice as hard later on. While he's quiet MJ has been working his a$$ off on the new book, continuing to grow this forum, and building a community we can communicate in. At the end of the day it's an incredible place and a great value to all of us but let's call a spade a spade. It's a new business he spends a lot of time, energy, and effort to support. Which goes back to the point. We as human beings have to employed. It gives us purpose. Maybe it's in a charitable way but one way or the other we have to create that identity for ourselves or we go nuts.

BTW, did MJ really spent 24 hours a day, every day, for several years on his money tree? Not a minute of sleep? Come on, you gotta be kidding :)

I won't even speak for the guy but from what he's told me, yeah, pretty much. Of course it's a bit of an exaggeration -- but not by much. Believe it or not the guys got a sickening work ethic. It's something I've always respected about him. Now he can't hang on the dance floor to save his life but he makes up for it it in other qualities

This is wrong not just bc it's Slowlane, but also because it simply eats even more time than a 9-5 job. You not only don't get rich, you sacrifice ALL of your life rather than a part of it.


Such is life. If you can give me an example of a business you don't have to pour 100 hours a week in for the first couple years to get it off the ground and running properly I'm honestly very very interested and I'd give you lots of money for that answer.

Get rich quick vs. Get rich easy. I'd love to make more money easily. I truly don't see a way to do it. And genuinely (no sarcasm here) would love to find something that can do what you propose

Yeah, for the duration of the time it takes to create a blossoming money tree it surely does. OTOH, what Victor Pride is saying is that you'll have to do it for the rest of your freakin' life. Until death. That's not Fastlane, that's a classic Slowlane. And it won't get anyone rich. Ever.

We all work until we're dead. Statistics show the vast majority of people die within 3 years of retiring. Ask any of the guys and gals on the forum here who have had the opportunity to try it how their health is doing. I know when I "retired" I went batshit crazy. (Probably explains a lot about me, huh?)

That's a much longer conversation obviously and I'm sure we could go back and forth on that one all day but in my humble opinion the goal is not to make enough to stop working, the goal is to make enough so you don't HAVE to work.

But that's not what Victor Pride says. What he says is "you'll have to work 24/7 until the day you die, with not a single day of rest." To make it perfectly clear, here's what he said at the end of his article :

"So you've achieved greatness, huh? Great.

Whatever you do, don't stop now.

What do I always say a million billion times?

Don't. Ever. Stop."

You're probably right on this. But in my humble opinion again I think you're taking it out of context. What I mean by that is a lot of the "gurus" are selling to people who aren't even close to the financial abundance, the emotional fortitude, or the sickening work ethic it would take to become even "moderately successful" (whatever that means to anyone)

There's a concept called swinging the pendulum. Sometimes when teaching a concept and someone is SO far from the mark you have them swing the pendulum to the extreme other side knowing that at some point it will balance out. Know what I'm saying?

I used to teach martial arts techniques this way once in a while. For someone who couldn't throw a proper front kick I'd have them physically bring their knee up and touch their heels to their butt before they kicked and then have them recoil to that position as well. They would look absolutely ridiculous and it'd be funny to watch, however after a couple tries and going a little faster they get to the 90 degree position I wanted them to be in the first place. Silly example I know but it worked wonders. I think the same goes for business. The vast majority of the public has never sold, owned, managed, or even started a business... so how do you translate the amount of work it takes to get it up in running? I think you say things like that. Not necessarily because it's the exact truth, but because it would get people to act in a way that would be closer than if they told the 100% truth.

And alas, they seem to preach the classic "do as I say, not as I do." They don't live what they preach.

Yeah that bugs me.

And to end, just to make it clear: I'm not trying to convince anyone, or asking anyone for assurances, that creating a hugely profitable business (or any business for that matter) is going to be anything but several years (at least) of hard work. I'm not a stranger to hard work (to say the least). But, as MJ points out, the whole point of the Fastlane is to create a money tree that will eventually work for you without you having to work all day on it. According to VP, that sweet reward will NEVER happen.


Great! I don't know the guy -- but how is he living now? Does he live with the "money tree" you're talking about?

Actually curious. Because it'd be another example of him saying one thing and doing another.
 

MidwestLandlord

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Way back in the day, Victor Pride published an article explaining why he teaches "don't ever stop!"

I'm talking way back when he first started. Long before he went off the rails crazy in my opinion. (besides, didn't he kill off the "Victor Pride" persona? I distinctly remember a blog post where he basically said he murdered his own online persona to take his blog a different direction with that weird new book and his Red Supplement brand)

Anyway, he said in this post that his audience is comprised of young men who are lost. He further explained that the "don't ever stop!" was directed at these men because 99% of them were so far away from success that just the simple act of "take action!" would make a world of difference.

By telling his audience to never ever stop, there can be no "rationalization" for being lazy. No "I worked hard yesterday so I deserve a break!" with VP's system.

It makes perfect sense for the audience he attracts and sells to.

I would be really surprised if Victor Pride actually believes that you'll *have* to work that hard forever. Work that hard because you *want* to maybe, but not out of necessity.

Really read through VP's blog and see what he does. He's no slowlaner. He's a guru if there ever was one. He's got his fingers in so many fastlane pies it's crazy. And I really doubt those pies quit making money for him if he stops working...ya know?

So if you need "the big brother you never had" type of guru motivational kick in the a$$, Victor is your man.

(No hate for VP, I enjoyed his earlier not crazy stuff)

I'm really not sure what the point of obsessing over gurus is though. Seems to be a favorite pastime around here haha.
 

Kung Fu Steve

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I'm really not sure what the point of obsessing over gurus is though. Seems to be a favorite pastime around here haha.

That's what I'm saying! ... but if y'all wanna go see Tony Robbins I might have a different opinion.... :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 

G-Man

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I'm talking way back when he first started. Long before he went off the rails crazy in my opinion. (besides, didn't he kill off the "Victor Pride" persona? I distinctly remember a blog post where he basically said he murdered his own online persona to take his blog a different direction with that weird new book and his Red Supplement brand)

Was staying away from this thread, but glad to see I'm not the only one that grew out of VP's stuff... and then there's also that his posts of late seem to be rambling non-sense. He's a great example of paradox of practice to me. He's a great writer, but he's an example of a person that built a business by telling others to build a business. Still great respect for the guy, because he creates content that's evergreen to people that are in a certain stage of life. He's great for flounder late teens early 20s guys that need a masculine voice to tell them to get off their a$$.... and I think there will always be an endless supply of directionless 20 something guys. He found a market segment that nobody was really writing for.

The strategy that he's used for his blog could be applied to lots of other things I think. He didn't focus on building a universal audience, he created a small army of die hard fans. EDIT: He's also managed to nearly mythologize himself with his audience. The dude is a great example of the power of sheer audacity, which is something I envy.

That said, I owe his blog because its how I learned about TMF.
 

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All i can remember from a Brian Tracy book I read was his affirmations...

"I love my job. I love my job. I love my job"
 

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GMSI7D

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Brian Tracy 's philosophy does not fit the fastlane point of view .

he says to invest and wait until you are old to be rich

work hard, be a slave and you will be rich when you are 70

this is not the fastlane philosophy according to the book.
 

MidwestLandlord

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Was staying away from this thread, but glad to see I'm not the only one that grew out of VP's stuff... and then there's also that his posts of late seem to be rambling non-sense. He's a great example of paradox of practice to me. He's a great writer, but he's an example of a person that built a business by telling others to build a business. Still great respect for the guy, because he creates content that's evergreen to people that are in a certain stage of life. He's great for flounder late teens early 20s guys that need a masculine voice to tell them to get off their a$$.... and I think there will always be an endless supply of directionless 20 something guys. He found a market segment that nobody was really writing for.

The strategy that he's used for his blog could be applied to lots of other things I think. He didn't focus on building a universal audience, he created a small army of die hard fans. EDIT: He's also managed to nearly mythologize himself with his audience. The dude is a great example of the power of sheer audacity, which is something I envy.

That said, I owe his blog because its how I learned about TMF.

Well said.

I saw VP in a newer video the other day with Joe Bodybuilder.(Edit: John Doe Bodybuilder) It seriously looked like VP was on drugs or something. His speech was slurred, he spoke abnormally formal in tone and vocabulary, and he sounded like he was reading from a script. Really weird.

Hope I'm wrong, but man was he different than videos of the past.

Yeah, I outgrew him. Still, he was one of a couple of voices of motivation I clung to during some really hard times, so...I hope all the best for him.
 
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G-Man

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I saw VP in a newer video the other day with Joe Bodybuilder. It seriously looked like VP was on drugs or something. His speech was slurred, he spoke abnormally formal in tone and vocabulary, and he sounded like he was reading from a script. Really weird.

Possible there's some painkillers in there or something. He's definitely reading a script. I tried to listen to his podcast, and in between the rambling there's some good little nuggets, but I'm pretty sure he's trying to artificially modulate the tone of his voice to make it deeper and more even, and the end result is that it's un-listenable.... that and you can only listen to a guy talk about how awesome he is so much.
 

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