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NOTABLE! Your Boss Doesn't Give A Shit About You

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Longinus

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Few months ago I posted some stuff about my work in another thread.

A colleague of mine works 20 years in the company. He was hired by the two owners (brothers) and for years they promised him he would one day be the CEO. So he worked very long hours, never asked a raise, he's obese ("because his stressy job and no time to do sports") and never sees his kids during the week.

Long story short, the owners sold the company and retired. The new company owner has other plans and is looking for a new CEO.

He now realizes he believed a lie for 20 years. He never went looking for another job or career, he never even evolved, because he was gonna be the CEO in a few years. Now he feels f*cked. Especially when the management asked me (working there 5 years) to become head of security for a part of the group (I'm gonna decline).

Another colleague hates her job and wants to quit. Her husband is an engineer who has a very well paid job with very good conditions. He hates it too and wants to quit. But he never finds another job with the same or better conditions. And he doesn't want to drive too far. And he doesn't want to start on his own because he doesn't want to work with computers. Etcetera.

They do have a plan though. They want to start a cinema, because the huge cinema-chains are way overpriced! So, a small cinema with cafeteria, that would be a great plan! Just one problem: this plan needs a lot of money.

The solution?

Winning the lottery!

So every week they look forward to the moment when their life is about to change (or so they think), only to come back to their job the next morning. Frustrated. Feeling trapped.

And so, all my 40-something colleagues are looking forward to their pension and ranting about this or that rich a**hole or wondering what went wrong with all their dreams and plans they once made in their lifes. Meanwhile passing their grudge to their children.

I can't count to how many people I've lent TMF. Only one read it til the end (my brother), understands it and he still doesn't want to change his choices. Even if you would make a Hollywood blockbuster where you can fully understand TMF, most people won't change!
(Luckily for us) Some people are just afraid to grow/change.

Update.

A new CEO was found and put in charge. A 58 years old, overweight, oldfashioned "manager" who finds it normal to scream at his workers from time to time. He was fired from his other work after 25 years for unknown circumstances. In a few years he will retire (but will sooner drop dead from heart disease), so my wannabe-ceo-colleague sees another chance.

In 2 years he might be CEO!

The donkey and the carrot.

The other colleague who's husband is engineer will stay at the job now. Her husband has found work in the company right next to us. So there's no point in looking for other work as they can go to their work together now. Still unhappy, but at least less unhappy than last year.

In our company it doesn't matter how much you work. It matters how much you can let them believe how hard you work. Action fake reigns supreme. Of course you must work overtime if you still type with two fingers and micromanage everything.

That's why all the managers of the whole group hate my gut. I work fast and leave early. And I don't keep my mouth to the CEO. And they need me more than I need them.

And because my "worst case scenario" is that they DON'T fire me and I have to leave myself.

SOB that I am.

TL;DR: the company I work is almost bankrupt, my boss(es) hate my guts because I don't keep my mouth shut, a colleague works almost 25 years here and has very high hopes to become the boss one day.

This week I unraveled a new secret:

The renting contract of the building we're located at will expire in 2021.

The building was sold to another transport company few years ago, which caused some unrest among the workers. But the previous CEO claimed they had a renting contract for 27 years. This week the new CEO spoke too fast to me, saying the contract ends 2021...

Slip of the tongue? So what?

Now I understand every move here.

The new CEO will retire in 2020, and since many colleagues are leaving, he tries to make promises of making them the new CEO and giving raises etc. Without blinking an eye he tells people he wants them to take over the company in his place. In reality I'm 99% certain they (the group) will close this place in 2021.

I was surprised, amused and also disgusted how false promises are made here, and that's probably normal in other companies too. Employees don't mean shit for "bosses". Just a tiny pawn in their game.

Luckily I haven't much to lose, and I know they want to fire me (just don't have to money to pull the trigger, and can't really blame me for anything). But for the stupid colleague who wants to be CEO, this will kill him. Even I tell him this, he will not believe me. Because "he can't be wrong for 23 years!".

I might stir a bit in this bowl of shit now.

This might be the same for the company you work at. A warned man...
 

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MidwestLandlord

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Not trying to be a jerk here...

But I really hope y'all have employees one day so you can see the other side of the coin.

Unless this guy flat lied and promised the other employee the CEO spot, it's not his responsibility to make sure this 26 year employee doesn't throw his life away following the Script.

As an employer, my interests come first. Damn right they do.
 

CareCPA

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Not trying to be a jerk here...

But I really hope y'all have employees one day so you can see the other side of the coin.

Unless this guy flat lied and promised the other employee the CEO spot, it's not his responsibility to make sure this 26 year employee doesn't throw his life away following the Script.

As an employer, my interests come first. Damn right they do.
+1. At the end of the day, it's the employer's capital at risk, and their responsibility to keep the business going.
It's the employee's responsibility to decide how long they want to stay there, what they want to put up with, or what steps they want to take to move out/up.
 

Longinus

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Not trying to be a jerk here...

But I really hope y'all have employees one day so you can see the other side of the coin.

Unless this guy flat lied and promised the other employee the CEO spot, it's not his responsibility to make sure this 26 year employee doesn't throw his life away following the Script.

As an employer, my interests come first. Damn right they do.

I agree that your interests should come first, but it's just the lack of integrity that bothers me. In my opinion the same integrity to serve clients. Fyi I don't like that colleague at all, and I don't feel pity or anything (on the contrary lol). But promising the world while knowing they will close the year after, this is not something I would do.
 

CareCPA

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I agree that your interests should come first, but it's just the lack of integrity that bothers me. In my opinion the same integrity to serve clients. Fyi I don't like that colleague at all, and I don't feel pity or anything (on the contrary lol). But promising the world while knowing they will close the year after, this is not something I would do.
Agreed with the integrity part, and intentionally misleading part.

However, there is a lot of nuance in employer-employee relationships that we aren't going to be able to get from your forum posts (and that you might not personally have knowledge of). Interpretations of conversations can go many ways.

My post (and I assume @MidwestLandlord 's post, sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth), was meant as a generality.
 

G-Man

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I agree that your interests should come first, but it's just the lack of integrity that bothers me. In my opinion the same integrity to serve clients. Fyi I don't like that colleague at all, and I don't feel pity or anything (on the contrary lol). But promising the world while knowing they will close the year after, this is not something I would do.

As someone that wholeheartedly endorses lying to employees, let me explain. Does it bother me to lie to people? Yes, it does. It also really makes you feel like an a**hole firing them only a couple weeks after telling them everything is fine.

Here's the thing, though, at the end of the day, you have to keep them working. When you tell people the company is in trouble, as the "boss" you'd like to think they're working extra hard, and thinking about it every waking hour trying to come up with a solution.

The reality: If you tell people the company is in trouble, during that critical time where every day matters and you need some wins, they're going to be coming in to work late and spending their days browsing Indeed.

TLDR: Everyone makes decisions based on what's best for their own survival. How's it any worse when a "boss" does it?
 

Longinus

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Agreed with the integrity part, and intentionally misleading part.

However, there is a lot of nuance in employer-employee relationships that we aren't going to be able to get from your forum posts (and that you might not personally have knowledge of). Interpretations of conversations can go many ways.

My post (and I assume @MidwestLandlord 's post, sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth), was meant as a generality.

As someone that wholeheartedly endorses lying to employees, let me explain. Does it bother me to lie to people? Yes, it does. It also really makes you feel like an a**hole firing them only a couple weeks after telling them everything is fine.

Here's the thing, though, at the end of the day, you have to keep them working. When you tell people the company is in trouble, as the "boss" you'd like to think they're working extra hard, and thinking about it every waking hour trying to come up with a solution.

The reality: If you tell people the company is in trouble, during that critical time where every day matters and you need some wins, they're going to be coming in to work late and spending their days browsing Indeed.

TLDR: Everyone makes decisions based on what's best for their own survival. How's it any worse when a "boss" does it?

Sure. This guy has been promised things his entire career/life and when he will finally get the chance, they will close the damn company. That's as hilarious as it's sad. And imo slightly different than a white lie like your case.

My most important point was: don't be this guy.
 

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I was told once by the founder's daughter of a fortune 100 company that I was fortunate to have a job there.

She was right.

I didn't do a damn thing to build the business, other than trade my time for a paycheck.

It was their family that put a second mortgage on their home, risked it all, fought back from the edge of bankruptcy, and ultimately built a profitable business.

I just took a paycheck.
 

Joe Cassandra

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In my experience (working both in a job and for myself), if a client or boss EVER makes you some sort of big promise...watch out.

Whether it's a boss saying: "Do this hard crap and you'll be rewarded come bonus time..."

Or, when a client says: "Do all this work for really cheap...I promise I'll have more work in the future I can pay you more for..."

Happened multiple times to me (esp. as a self-employed newbie who was scrounging for a second look from a prospect). Now, even if a month is tight with few leads, if someone approaches me on Linkedin with a bottom-of-the-barrel bid, I resist the urge and say "No."

The best bosses/clients don't play the tit for tat. They play: "Let's work hard one step at a time. If you're messing up I'll tell you. If you're doing great, I'll tell you." Then, you both know if the relationship continues, it'll be a win-win.
 

cmor16

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As someone that wholeheartedly endorses lying to employees, let me explain. Does it bother me to lie to people? Yes, it does. It also really makes you feel like an a**hole firing them only a couple weeks after telling them everything is fine.

Here's the thing, though, at the end of the day, you have to keep them working. When you tell people the company is in trouble, as the "boss" you'd like to think they're working extra hard, and thinking about it every waking hour trying to come up with a solution.

This is the part that really sucks. I've had to sign NDA's while working on confidential projects, some of which involved a head count reduction. As is the case in most corporate environments, loose lips lead to chatter and rumors and next thing I know, I'm lying right to my employees faces as they question me on what they've heard. It's one of many reasons I am looking to escape. I just hate compromising my integrity and putting corporate matters ahead of personal matters.
 

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I read somewhere that people don't leave companies. They leave bosses.
 

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MidwestLandlord

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I read somewhere that people don't leave companies. They leave bosses.

Partly true, but also partly Scripted bullshit villianizing bosses and allowing people to rationalize why they left a job as a victim instead of just owning the decision to quit and move on.
 

G-Man

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An interesting twist: The company that I work for will most likely be out of business before the end of 2017. Sucks for me, I've been working for a combination of a very below market salary and equity. I don't hold that against anyone. It was a calculated risk, and I'd do it again.

In the last two or three weeks, the owner has been telling me there's all these left field things that could happen to turn things around. Don't get me wrong, there's a 1% chance they do, but it's the irony that I know he's "lying" to me because he needs me to keep working hard right up to the bitter end. He's dangling hope in front of me because he knows that my hard work might be the difference in him exiting with no debt or 6 figures of it.

Crazy thing: I don't hold it against him. I'd do the same thing in his situation. Kind of makes me work my a$$ off in a weird kind of way.
 

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I read somewhere that people don't leave companies. They leave bosses.

I debate that. Sounds nice, but the reality is

I think most people leave because they think the grass is greener elsewhere, and they go shopping for a new sugar daddy.

A large client of mine hired a guy that was too poor to buy himself a decent pair of shoes.

The first thing the new sugar daddy did was gave him some money and sent him clothes shopping.

Three years later, the guy left the employer, and took a bunch of intellectual property with him.

His grievance against the company? They had only increased his pay over the three years from $50k to $300k, but he was making them a lot more than that.

He "was being taken advantage of."

His new sugar daddy? Six months after they had sucked him dry of all of the intellectual property he stole, they fired him.

NOBODY would pay him what the original company had.

His wife left him, because she was a gold digger and he was out of gold.

After floundering for a long time, he finally opened a low rent bar. I lost interest in him and lost track of him, but he's either still there... or worse.

The moral of the story kids is:

1. not all employers are evil when you agree to trade your time for their money and
2. the grass isn't always greener

Greed kicks in to almost every situation. It happens 100% on the employers side, and almost always on the employees side also. It's easy for an employer to begrudge writing large commission checks. It's equally easy for an employee to begrudge a sugar daddy for paying the wage that was agreed to from the beginning.

You don't like it? Leave.
 

MidwestLandlord

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My post (and I assume @MidwestLandlord 's post, sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth), was meant as a generality.

I was only somewhat generalizing.

I would do the same thing.

If I told the truth, employees would quit, get lazy, disparage and leak info on social media, and steal anything not nailed down.
 

CareCPA

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I was only somewhat generalizing.

I would do the same thing.

If I told the truth, employees would quit, get lazy, disparage and leak info on social media, and steal anything not nailed down.
Your eloquent posts make me think twice about getting large enough to hire employees...
 

MidwestLandlord

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Your eloquent posts make me think twice about getting large enough to hire employees...

Employees are great, until they're not.

They all have expiration dates. As an employer you just dont get to see what that expiration date is until one day they go bad...like spoiled meat.
 

G-Man

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The moral of the story kids is:

1. not all employers are evil when you agree to trade your time for their money and
2. the grass isn't always greener

One of my former bosses was constantly bitching about our employer and how he didn't get paid enough, was openly insubordinate, it was crazy.

I never understood why he didn't just leave. He was the most disgruntled motherfcker I've seen to this day, and he was the highest paid employee in the company (paid more than the owner) He made over $100k for short hours and mediocre work. He finally left, and despite what a bastard he was, I still didn't really think too ill of him because the owner was a complete a**hole. Turns out, the dude had a bankruptcy and a felony. He was a Controller.

He left prematurely on a job offer from another company that obviously declined to hire him once the background check was completed. I've never heard of anyone hiring a controller with a bankruptcy or a felony,... let alone both.

Moral of the story: Never underestimate someone's ability to convince themselves the grass is greener.
 

cmor16

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Your boss doesn't give any more shits about you than you do about him/her. In each case, one is being used by the other for a specific purpose.
Boss: uses employee to do necessary tasks to grow the business
Employee: uses the boss for a steady paycheck to support him/herself, family etc.

Of course there are exceptions, but generally, it's a symbiotic relationship.
 

Raoul Duke

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Not trying to be a jerk here...

But I really hope y'all have employees one day so you can see the other side of the coin.

Unless this guy flat lied and promised the other employee the CEO spot, it's not his responsibility to make sure this 26 year employee doesn't throw his life away following the Script.

As an employer, my interests come first. Damn right they do.


 

MidwestLandlord

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Your eloquent posts make me think twice about getting large enough to hire employees...

Also,

Having a need for employees is a good problem to have. Just like having to pay more taxes. Necessary evils and all that.

Just don't go into it thinking that your employees will love you because you're not like other bosses and treat them well blah blah blah.

Your employees don't give a shit about you.

It's a tit for tat relationship.
 

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CareCPA

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Also,

Having a need for employees is a good problem to have. Just like having to pay more taxes. Necessary evils and all that.

Just don't go into it thinking that your employees will love you because you're not like other bosses and treat them well blah blah blah.

Your employees don't give a shit about you.

It's a tit for tat relationship.
Solid advice. Thanks.
 

Longinus

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Also,

Having a need for employees is a good problem to have. Just like having to pay more taxes. Necessary evils and all that.

Just don't go into it thinking that your employees will love you because you're not like other bosses and treat them well blah blah blah.

Your employees don't give a shit about you.

It's a tit for tat relationship.

I never had employees myself (and would avoid also), so I can't judge on this part. But...

Unless this guy flat lied and promised the other employee the CEO spot,

This is 100% the case here, and it's going on for years. Of course this dude shouldn't be so stupid, but what difference does it make for you?
 

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I was told once by the founder's daughter of a fortune 100 company that I was fortunate to have a job there.

Not speaking towards your specific situation, but that line makes me naseaous every time I hear it.

I've heard it from family and even my boss "be fortunate you have a job."

If that's not the definition of the Script in action, I don't know what is.
 

MidwestLandlord

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This is 100% the case here, and it's going on for years. Of course this dude shouldn't be so stupid, but what difference does it make for you?

"You're gonna be CEO!"

Vs

"You're doing excellent work here! Keep it up, and we'll see what the future holds"

One is a lie, the other is protecting my interests.

(I shoulda been a politician lol)
 

JAJT

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Most people are selfish.

I don't mean in some greedy, a**hole, antagonistic way though. I just mean they act in their own self interest most of the time. ESPECIALLY when faced with hard decisions.

This doesn't mean they don't care about you.
Or don't like you.
Or is actively trying to screw you.

They may love working with you, think you are an awesome person and cherish their hours spent with you.

But don't for a second think you are anyone else's first priority.
This goes all ways - employers, employees, the unemployed, etc...

If you expect people to act in their own self interests, you won't be surprised at most of the things you see happen around you.

Employees lie to their employers so they are treated better, get more time off, get paid more for hours they didn't work, to keep their jobs, etc...
Employers lie to employees to keep the company running, to keep people happy and productive, to keep costs down, etc...
The unemployed lie to get jobs they don't deserve, or to keep welfare going, or work under the table to avoid taxes and regulations, etc...
Students lie about the value of their education as it relates to jobs they are applying for.
Parents lie to their kids so they seem more successful than they really are, to hide their shameful debt, so their kids like them better, etc...

Most people can justify just about anything as long as they can convince themselves that it would be worse if they didn't act that way. And that doesn't even make it false. Or true. It's just perspective and perceived risk and self interest at play.

This is why being self-reliant is such a big deal.
If you take personal responsibility for everything that happens in your life, you stop feeling victimized when other people act in their own self interests. It's not their responsibility to treat you a certain way, it's YOUR responsibility to take care of yourself. And when something happens that isn't your fault, you make it your responsibility anyway - because that's life and nobody is going to watch your back like you are.
 

Longinus

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Most people here assume that all employees just work for their paycheck. While this is the case for most employees, it's certainly not for all of them. It probably depends what company, a barkeeper might have other means than some kind of engineer or doctor, ...

Fastlane and entrepreneurism aside, I think that if you have a slight sense of responsibility and ambition in you, you don't just do your work for your paycheck. You want to make your company the best. Of course respect must come from both ways.

Today I saw an email that was not meant for my eyes. I found out that the only reason they don't fire me, is that I know some things that can completely ruin the company. But even if they would fire me, I would never do this. Because I have nothing to gain with 50 workers that are suddenly jobless, just to settle things.

Would they do it to me? Perhaps, but that's their responsibility. I don't feel much for "they would do it, so I'll do it to."
 

G-Man

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Most people here assume that all employees just work for their paycheck.

This statement is true, but essentially irrelevant. Yes, people have ambition. Yes, people care about the quality of their work. Yes, people want to work in a positive environment. That's all really great, and wouldn't matter at all if you walked in one morning and told them they wouldn't be getting paid. Your building would be empty by noon.

Like @JAJT pointed out, it doesn't mean people are assholes, it just means they have needs, the most important of which is usually money.
 

MidwestLandlord

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This statement is true, but essentially irrelevant. Yes, people have ambition. Yes, people care about the quality of their work. Yes, people want to work in a positive environment. That's all really great, and wouldn't matter at all if you walked in one morning and told them they wouldn't be getting paid. Your building would be empty by noon.

Like @JAJT pointed out, it doesn't mean people are assholes, it just means they have needs, the most important of which is usually money.

Exactly.

Because, at the heart of it, the employee is selling their time...just like selling any other product.

You quit offering your product to those who don't pay, are too much hassle for the return, or if someone offers to buy your product for more money (or benefits, which is still money).

The need is an ROI for their time being sold. (among other things)

Even volunteer work works in the same fashion, it's just a different currency being paid for that time. (<--sounds cynical, but it's true. Would you keep doing work for a charity that does nobody any good?)

I do quite a bit of charity work, and I expect a return on my time. It's not money, but it's still a return. (pride, spirituality, joy, sense of well-being, helping my fellow man, etc)

Fastlane and entrepreneurism aside, I think that if you have a slight sense of responsibility and ambition in you, you don't just do your work for your paycheck. You want to make your company the best. Of course respect must come from both ways.

I don't think anyone is saying people don't have pride in their work. Most do. Some don't. My negativity bias tends to tell me that all employee's lack pride in their work, but I know it's not true haha.

But WHY do people have pride in their work? To benefit the owners? Or to feel good about themselves with a job well done?

I think it's to feel good about themselves, which makes it an inherently selfish act.

"Selfish" gets a bad rap. Nothing wrong with being selfish, because since we are all human, often our needs are aligned. (this forum is an excellent example of that)

Most people here assume that all employees just work for their paycheck.

I don't think that.

I think employee's work to get their needs filled, and one of those needs is a paycheck.

The problem lies in that people are expecting me to fill their needs as the employee, but they are not filling my needs as the employer.

In other words, the cost of their time is too high for what they provide me. (although since I hire them anyway, obviously I still believe they are worth the cost. I just attempt to pass the costs on to my customers)
 
G

GuestUser450

Guest
I did contract work for a company, things went well and it led to a partnership.

I had skin in the game so I asked if I could work in the main office because I've learned that's where things start, good or bad.

Flash forward 6 months and we're talking about plans for a big acquisition and the owner asks me how we'll move the 10 people in the main office to the new office 200 miles away.

I told him there were 2 who did real work and 8 who repeated mistakes, were rude to customers, took long lunches, left early and bitched about not being promoted and that he should separate the wheat from the chaff. The 80/20 rule happened right in front of my eyes.

I couldn't help but think of Dale Carnegie's HTWFAIP;
"Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, people don’t criticize themselves for anything no matter how wrong it may be."
and
"When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but with creatures bristling with prejudice and motivated by pride and vanity."
 
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