"You Rich Doctors Only Care About Money"

[Iwokeup]

So I had a very interesting conversation with a patient yesterday. He'd come in for abdominal pain and given his history got a very thorough workup. Which was completely negative (as I had thought that it would be). I went in to explain it to him and he was.not.having.it.

Wanted "more tests" because he was "sure that you're missing something." You know, because that time years ago where he went to the hospital "ten times in a row" and on the tenth visit they found something wrong with him.

I replied that, "Well sir, the human body is a strange beast. You can be fine today but may develop problems later." We'd love to see you back if things change or get worse, etc. The usual. Then the conversation went off the deep end...

I said something along the lines of, "I don't get that you trust what I'm telling you right now."

Him: "No, I don't! You doctors don't care about me, only you're money."

Me: "Uhhh, not true. And I don't see how that changes what we're talking about today."

Him: "You just want to make me come back again and again until you 'finally' figure out what's going on. That way you can charge me more."

Me [dumbfounded]: "Sir, this is not a conspiracy to charge you more. And besides, I've grown up really poor so I understand the financial implications of an Emergency Room visit. I most definitely don't want to waste you're time or money."

Him: "Don't lie to me, doc. You weren't ever poor, you don't understand, and you never will."

Me: "Okay sir. One last question: do you have insurance? I want to make sure that you can actually pay for whichever medicine I prescribe for you."

Him: "See? All you care about is money!!"

Me: "Have a nice day, sir. Goodbye."

===========================

Anyway, it's early so I'm not sure what it really means. But definitely the first time that someone assumed that because I'm a physician that the only thing that I care about is money, to my face.

 

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[healthstatus]

1) Read Atlas Shrugged
2) Nothing wrong with doing good work for good money.

 

[Iwokeup]

1) Read Atlas Shrugged
2) Nothing wrong with doing good work for good money.

1) I have and I happen to love the book.
2) I don't feel guilty for making good money. Nor do I think that there's anything wrong about it. I've just never encountered the naked sentiment before. It was unexpected.

 

[pro]

Your patient is right. He has the right to be skeptical as many doctors will lie and not act in your best interest for money.

When you run a company, manage a high volume of customers, or manage employees you will be faced with a lot more criticism

 

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[Hope]

In a way this reminds me of moon landing hoax conspiracy theorists, they deny the moon landing happen because they can't begin to fathom that good and intelligent men with slide rules and paper and pencils could possibly make it to the moon, because they know they themselves could never do something as magnificent.

The patient is obviously a bit of a loser, not only can he not manage his own finances, but he has the audacity to insult someone who is trying to heal him, he can't begin the grasp the concept that some people are actually good, hard working folks trying to make an honest living through good work.

Classic sidewalker.

 

[Yury]

I wonder if amount of these who only care about money is higher among doctors than among other people.

don't care about me, only you're money

You auto mechanics don't care about me, only about your money
You bakers don't care about me, only about your money
You waiter don't care about me, only about your money
Me me me, me me me.

Did he care about you? To begin with.

Each of us is the center of the universe, so how dare you not to care enough about me?
Hmm..... interesting question and a pain point indeed. Gotta bookmark it and think it over.

I don't feel guilty for making good money

That's a good example of what happens when you have a good magnitude of N in N-E-C-S-T...

So you can imagine what's gonna happen when the cutting-edge biotech companies will overshadow Apple, Google & co (though Google works in this direction as well AFAIK) in capital and public attention and will produce even more multi-billionaires because they gonna multiply this amazing N by tremendous S

This guy in the original post and millions (billions) of others who don't understand the N-E-C-S-T thing, they're gonna be outraged

 

[jon.a]

Perceptions of the fools (the uninformed).

In the Navy, we had what was called the "Chiefs Mess" that was where the Chiefs would "hang out" It was more protected than "officers country" not even the skipper was allowed without an invitation and sponsor. The goings on within the Chiefs mess was shrouded in mystery.

One of the duties of the Chief's was to correct the behavior of troublesome sailors. Which would lead to awkward conversations at times.

Sailor: Why are you picking on me?
Me: I'm not picking on you. You simply have to stop doing "x behavior"

Sailor: You Chiefs are always picking on me.
Me: We're not picking on you. You simply have to stop doing "x behavior"

Sailor: Every day you Chiefs are up my a$$ about something.
Me: We're not picking on you. You simply have to stop doing "x behavior"

Sailor: I think the Chiefs just don't like, "pick a protected class"
Me: We're not picking on you. You simply have to stop doing "x behavior"

Sailor: I think that you Chiefs are just picking on me and all the other members of my protected class.
Me: Do you really think that we meet together late at night and pick someone to mess with?

Sailor: Well, I guess not.
Me: Well, you're right. Unless it's a very special case. You don't want to become a special case, do you?

Sailor: No Senior.
Me: Dismissed.

 

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[GuestUser113]

Do you roll up to the hospital in your Bugatti listening to The O'jays - money money money?

 

[Iwokeup]

Your patient is right. He has the right to be skeptical as many doctors will lie and not act in your best interest for money.

When you run a company, manage a high volume of customers, or manage employees you will be faced with a lot more criticism

Oh, I don't deny that he has that right. But it's just funny because as an ER doctor I get paid no matter how much or how little I do for the patient. My incentive is for people to get the best care and to NOT miss a critical diagnosis. So I do what's right for them, not necessarily what they want. But they can't or won't see that because of their own preconceptions. And to patient's, often what constitues "good care" = more tests. Which is often much worse for them than doing nothing.

I was the same way before I became a doctor, btw.

 

[Angus]

master-slave morality... man you're so evil, PAID WORK? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

i would ask him what he does for a living, and why he does that
money maybe?

 

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[jon.a]

master-slave morality... man you're so evil, PAID WORK? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

i would ask him what he does for a living, and why he does that
money maybe?

Bad idea.
Not a worthy debate.

 

[Angus]

Bad idea.
Not a worthy debate.

debating is just not worth it, especially on ideologies, stuff you can't back with overwhelming evidence. if you "win" it's a pyrrhic victory, a waste of time, if you "lose"... will you really change your mind on a ideological debate with a stranger?

 

[Vigilante]

I have been to the ER on many occasions.

One time in particular comes to mind, which was after my daughter slipped out of consciousness due to (we didn't know at the time) Roseola.

Trust me. The doctors in the ER were there to save lives. The first responders were not there focused on how to increase their paychecks. They may have chosen a profession that pays well, but it should. When your life is on the line, or the life of someone you love... it's not about money.

You think that doctor is sitting back trying to figure out how to rack up your bill? Meanwhile, you run to the ER with the sniffles, because YOU DON'T PAY THE BILL.

My daughter's best pal is an emergency room RN. The degree of difficulty they face every day... unimaginable. The week before last she had to console some parents after their doctor told them that their child didn't survive the emergency surgery. She cried with her patients. She felt the loss of a baby. You accuse her of being in this for the money to my face, and see how this ends up for you. You might be surprised at the strength of my reaction.

I am a huge critic of the medical system, the perception of self worth of people who introduce themselves and want other people to call them by their credential, and of the process. However, I have the utmost respect for emergency room professionals. They deserve admiration for their chosen profession, for the work that they do, and the lives that they save.

 

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[Iwokeup]

Perceptions of the fools (the uninformed).

In the Navy, we had what was called the "Chiefs Mess" that was where the Chiefs would "hang out" It was more protected than "officers country" not even the skipper was allowed without an invitation and sponsor. The goings on within the Chiefs mess was shrouded in mystery.

One of the duties of the Chief's was to correct the behavior of troublesome sailors. Which would lead to awkward conversations at times.

Sailor: Why are you picking on me?
Me: I'm not picking on you. You simply have to stop doing "x behavior"

Sailor: You Chiefs are always picking on me.
Me: We're not picking on you. You simply have to stop doing "x behavior"

Sailor: Every day you Chiefs are up my a$$ about something.
Me: We're not picking on you. You simply have to stop doing "x behavior"

Sailor: I think the Chiefs just don't like, "pick a protected class"
Me: We're not picking on you. You simply have to stop doing "x behavior"

Sailor: I think that you Chiefs are just picking on me and all the other members of my protected class.
Me: Do you really think that we meet together late at night and pick someone to mess with?

Sailor: Well, I guess not.
Me: Well, you're right. Unless it's a very special case. You don't want to become a special case, do you?

Sailor: No Senior.
Me: Dismissed.

Hahah! Having spent much time on ships, I can attest to both the sanctity of the Chief's Mess and the behaviour of the sailors being corrected.

You were a Chief? AWESOME....

 

[throttleforward]

But it's just funny because as an ER doctor I get paid no matter how much or how little I do for the patient.

In fairness to the patient, he doesn't know that you are different than other specialties and get paid by the hour/flat rate and not by the procedure or prescription. I think we can all agree that there are a number of specialties where doctors run up the juicy billable tests and expensive, name-brand prescriptions for even the slightest medical indication. We also know that there are doctors who would have otherwise withheld some test or medication, but because of the insistence of the patient prescribed it anyway (e.g. how you used to be able to get prescriptions for penicillin and other antibiotics like candy so that you felt like it was "worth it" to go to the doctor, even though the doctor knew that the antibiotic would do nothing for your viral infection - thus contributing to the rise of antibiotic resistant pathogens).

Now the part where he doesn't believe that you could have ever been poor because your a "rich doctor" now - that's a totally different story and is a sad commentary on the mindset of what is likely a majority of the population.

 

[AllenCrawley]

Pay doctors well. Very well. The last thing I want is a surgeon operating on me or a loved one while worrying about whether they can pay their mortgage this month.

 

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[jon.a]

It's just people's differences.

When I was in for my heart attack, I seriously hoped that there wouldn't be a nasty auto accident come in. The staff had me under control but, I didn't want to distract them from other more important things. But, then again, they had everything under control. All hail to our protectors.

I still remember my nurses smile when I told her my pain was only an 8 or 9 because I was still conscious.

 

[jon.a]

Hahah! Having spent much time on ships, I can attest to both the sanctity of the Chief's Mess and the behaviour of the sailors being corrected.

You were a Chief? AWESOME....

Senior

 

[Iwokeup]

I still remember my nurses smile when I told her my pain was only an 8 or 9 because I was still conscious.

In an era when a hangnail is "10/10 pain," I sir, salute you.

 

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[Shades]

Good doctors deserve to make boat loads of money. The issue is that there seems to be fewer and fewer quality doctors IMO. why is that? Education system? Less quality individuals choosing medicine as their career path? Dont want to deal with the system or the crazy college bills etc...

When you have something out of the norm wrong with you it can be tough just to find a specialist that knows WTF they are talking about. Anyone with run of the mill issues im sure wont have many problems with current medical treatment.

The current doc we see now is great. Very knowledgeable. And hes always taking it upon himself to be on top of new treatments and news in the field. You can tell hes passionate about what hes doing. That may seem like something all doctors should do but it certainly isnt in my experience.

Another note, I noticed my regional medical center has started hiring young nurses in the past few years. Almost entirely eliminating the older ones on staff. I gotta say, the difference is night and day. The service and friendliness of the younger nurses is much better. Maybe its just because the older ones have been beaten down by the job over the years.

 

[jon.a]

In an era when a hangnail is "10/10 pain," I sir, salute you.

I didn't want you guy's laughing at me over coffee in the lounge. We common folk know all about you prima donna's.

 

[Iwokeup]

In fairness to the patient, he doesn't know that you are different than other specialties and get paid by the hour/flat rate and not by the procedure or prescription. I think we can all agree that there are a number of specialties where doctors run up the juicy billable tests and expensive, name-brand prescriptions for even the slightest medical indication. We also know that there are doctors who would have otherwise withheld some test or medication, but because of the insistence of the patient prescribed it anyway (e.g. how you used to be able to get prescriptions for penicillin and other antibiotics like candy so that you felt like it was "worth it" to go to the doctor, even though the doctor knew that the antibiotic would do nothing for your viral infection - thus contributing to the rise of antibiotic resistant pathogens).

Now the part where he doesn't believe that you could have ever been poor because your a "rich doctor" now - that's a totally different story and is a sad commentary on the mindset of what is likely a majority of the population.

1) There are are a few scumbag doctors who decidly over-procedurize patients because of the enconomic incentives. They make all of us look bad. In addition, there have been studies that show (don't have time to look up) that in a fee for service model, there is a tendency to over order/procedure/test. In most cases the physicians don't have the concsious intent but as we all know, economic incentives do influence behavior.

2) Totally agree.

 

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[Iwokeup]

Senior

I think that I'll stop slouching and stand a little taller, thank you.

 

[jazb]

Maybe he was very frustrated and was taking that out on you

 

[Mineralogic]

In a way this reminds me of moon landing hoax conspiracy theorists, they deny the moon landing happen because they can't begin to fathom that good and intelligent men with slide rules and paper and pencils could possibly make it to the moon, because they know they themselves could never do something as magnificent.

The patient is obviously a bit of a loser, not only can he not manage his own finances, but he has the audacity to insult someone who is trying to heal him, he can't begin the grasp the concept that some people are actually good, hard working folks trying to make an honest living through good work.

Classic sidewalker.

Most MD doctors don't heal or cure. They mainly manage symptoms, and have helped contribute to why the system today is broke

 

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[Iwokeup]

Most MD doctors don't heal or cure. They mainly manage symptoms, and have helped contribute to why the system today is broke

Ahh, what a completely misinformed opinion! But it sounds snappy so yeah, let's go with that.

 

[jon.a]

Most MD doctors don't heal or cure. They mainly manage symptoms, and have helped contribute to why the system today is broke

So, you have an opinion. Thanks for sharing. Dismissed.

 

[Iwokeup]

Maybe he was very frustrated and was taking that out on you

Probably.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

So, you have an opinion. Thanks for sharing

First post as well. The passion is strong with this one.

 

[Mineralogic]

yes - first post - thanks for having me here.

Dealing with Medical and Nutrition angle is one of my passions and experiences I am going thru for a decade now.

Doctor's are great at Specific Surgeries/trauma-type care and even the infection level stuff.

They stink at preventative medicine "in general" and no WORD of lie, have little ( as in a few hours of lectures) to NO clinical nutrition training. This is something I have verified and have direct experience with. You cannot expect people who make money off "sick care" to be totally free of the greed factor.

I also have several charts showing how the USA really is at the bottom of westernized countries when it comes to preventing basic diseases and also living long. There is so much disinfo in the medicine/nutrition world as well. Finally after 30 years butter is Great to consume( think bulletproof coffee) after they told everyone to avoid and use the worst fat sources !

All these complaints and facts also provide the opportunity so out of negative comes positive!!


MJ- love the book and thanks for having me here!