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Yes, but... (no, Yes, and!)

WJK

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The substitute for the word BUT is the word AND. By using BUT, you negate everything that the other person said. It's a total rebuttal to everything that came before.
The other powerful word is TRY. My doctor used to tell me that, "Triers are liars." That word also lets people off of the hook.
Both words are hedge words that allow people to be passive-aggressive in their replies.
 

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Ha... I'm even examining how I reply now that Mr Lex has weighed in from Copywriter's Corner.

Ha, no pressure right, lol!

Well for what it's worth, I think you answered the question very well! Very diplomatic, yet encouraging while letting me know the reality that you're very busy at the moment.

I honestly wasn't expecting you to PM me, so I really appreciate it. Thanks. I will however read MJ's post that you linked to (looks like I missed that one) before I reply to your PM....

:)
 

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Aha, please keep these coming Andy. They're very insightful (having never done sales before myself and manning a till doesn't really count. :woot:)

Is there a recommended book to start with that you feel applies the correct theory to sales? (I realize that it's impossible to learn sales unless you just do it. Even so, I want to get a good grounding. Communication is one of my weaknesses.)
 

Andy Black

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Aha, please keep these coming Andy. They're very insightful (having never done sales before myself and manning a till doesn't really count. :woot:)

Is there a recommended book to start with that you feel applies the correct theory to sales? (I realize that it's impossible to learn sales unless you just do it. Even so, I want to get a good grounding. Communication is one of my weaknesses.)
I'd suggest reading @SinisterLex 's post about making money with no portfolio etc. Sorry I can't link as I am on my phone. Mr Lex? Could you link to it?

As for face-to-face selling, I don't do so much of that really and haven't read any books. There's probably good threads on the forum as I know others here excel at it.
 
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Jon L

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I realize that you have posted it a good year ago, you gave me an idea about how to use it:
"You have A, B, C which is good. Now we can add X, Y, Z and make it even better".
"Your X works great, can you imagine if we only could add Z here!"
"You have great content on your website - with our hosting and customer support we can help you make it load 5x faster."

What do you think?

Hey thanks for all the rep!

Yeah, I love that way of thinking...it compliments the prospect on what they already have and shows what you could add to it. The only thing I might add is the benefit the prospect the customer will get by having you do 'x y and z.' For example, 'Google favors websites that load faster by bumping them higher in the search results. 5x faster load will likely help increase the profit you're seeing from your website.'
 

TinyOldLady

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That was brilliant. I loved the throwaway comment at the end of “Keep your mouth shut and your mind open.”

@TinyOldLady ... I think it’s well worth creating a whole thread on this and posting that video. Can you do the honours?
Alright! I‘ll collect my thoughts and will create a thread ☺️
 

Madame Peccato

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Move the but(t?) around, and it'll be the favorite word of people who do stuff .
 
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WJK

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Sometimes people even say stuff like ”I’m going to start trying to learn XYZ.”

“I’m doing XYZ.” is better.

“I’ve done XYZ.” is better still.
You're right. "start trying" is sure a wimpy way out.

You can also take it one step further. You can say, "My next step in XYZ is ______. And I doing that at ___ o'clock today.

I'm big on defined, doable baby steps that are part of a master plan with a set execution timeline. If I don't do that critical planning for my project, it just sits there, looking at me with accusing eyes -- unless I banish it. It simply never gets done and eventually falls off the bottom of my to-do list.
 
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Andy Black

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Tip Toe

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Thank you for the lightning speed replies. Will have to slowly digest everything.

As for face-to-face selling, I don't do so much of that really and haven't read any books. There's probably good threads on the forum as I know others here excel at it.

Yes I've read quite a number of good threads/posts dotted around. Actually now that I think of it I'm kicking myself a bit for not compiling them into a list... :headbanger:

Don't worry about the title so much (it doesn't mean you don't have any friends!).

Aha, I had a sample of this on my kindle from when it was suggested to me during my "dating" phase a number of moons back and the title did put me off a bit in that context (personally.) Luckily I have reason to look at it with a renewed mindset and purpose.

As far as sales - Here's an awesome audio series on influence by Tony Robbins.

Covers sales, influence, persuasion, NLP and more all in one.

Thank you for the link to your thread and the video Lex. Listened to 10 minutes so far and it's already eye-opening.
 
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Andy Black

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I love this... its interesting how I do this naturally in some parts of my life, but not in others. For example, in parenting, I'm very intent on building on what my kids already know, and adding more to it.

My 7 year old came to me a few months ago and said, 'hey dad, listen to how well I can sing.' She sang a song from the movie Frozen using only a couple different notes. It sounded awful overall because of the pitch problem. (a complete lack of anything even remotely related to proper pitch :) But, her tone was actually pretty good.

So, I said, "You have really good sound to your voice. We need to work on your pitch." She got excited about this and we've been working on improving her ability to recognize pitch.

Now...if I could just apply this to sales...
Great example!
 

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"Price is too high."

"Yes, it is high and it's worth it. Imagine smiling from ear to ear as you pullup to your house in your brand new car."

This advice changed everything for me.
As many other things, it should be printed as a reminder.
I'll print mine right now.
 
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Andy Black

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Another similar thing I learned originally from Jordan Harbinger's podcast is to take longer pauses between people talking and you answering. The whole point being if you answer immediately after they've stopped speaking, doesn't that mean that you stopped listening to what they were saying and were just waiting to get a word in?
I was literally telling our 12 year old that yesterday. We’ve no way of telling he’s heard us when he says something completely different straight after we finish talking.
 

Andy Black

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This stuff fascinates me. How easily communication can change based on the use of a single word, or even based on how the same words are positioned within a sentence!

The house is on fire but the homeowners have insurance.
(First half negated. Emphasis on the second half of sentence)
The house is on fire but the homeowners have insurance.
The "bad" is negated by the "good" so the situation becomes positive or reassuring.

The house is on fire and the homeowners have insurance.
(Equal emphasis on both halves of sentence)
The house is on fire and the homeowners have insurance.
The "bad" is equalized by the "good," removing or reducing emotion to statements of fact.

The house is on fire even though the homeowners have insurance.
(Second half negated. Emphasis on first half of sentence)
The house is on fire even though the homeowners have insurance.
The "bad" is emphasized at the expense of the good so that it becomes more important to deal with right now.

And now we will see the magic of language!

---

The homeowners have insurance but the house is on fire.
(First half negated. Emphasis on the second half of sentence)
The homeowners have insurance but the house is on fire.
Emphasis remains on second half but the meaning and emotional impact of the sentence changes.

The homeowners have insurance and the house is on fire.
(Equal emphasis on both haves of sentence)
The homeowners have insurance and the house is on fire.
The meaning of the sentence remains the same in this case.

The homeowners have insurance even though the house is on fire.
(Second half negated. Emphasis on first half of sentence)
The homeowners have insurance even though the house is on fire.

Emphasis remains on the first half, but the meaning of the sentence is completely different.


I used to focus solely on the effect of a word (such as but or and), but today I am also fascinated by sentence positioning and how important it is for the structure of communication. Sales people and copywriters should pay particular attention to the positioning of thoughts within sentences as a flip-flopped thought might go from positive to negative or even have no emotional influence at all!

Language is magic in the "real" world.
100% agree. I’m fascinated by how to get a point across simply, and in a positive manner. Written language is so much harder/challenging because the tone is missing. I suspect readers insert their own tone - like when I said “Good for you” to someone and they took it up the wrong way - they didn’t hear my tone and I suspect they heard it in the tone they’d use it.

I also find my first draft has twice the words needed, or is clumsy when reread back.
 
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Andy Black

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Great advice, Andy!
Yesterday I wanted to post this awesome video, but did not want to create a new thread. May I post it here?
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R1vskiVDwl4
That was brilliant. I loved the throwaway comment at the end of “Keep your mouth shut and your mind open.”

@TinyOldLady ... I think it’s well worth creating a whole thread on this and posting that video. Can you do the honours?
 
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Knugs

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I used to have a friend who sold drugs.

The police were extremely worried when a large batch of drugs were stolen from his car.

... until he told them he was selling laxatives that week.

They found that *highly* amusing.


Anyway, my friend was a very good salesman (selling to busy doctors in understaffed hospitals is quite a feat.)

Over a few pints every weekend he'd tell me stories and sales tips he'd learned.

I wish I'd paid more attention, but back then I didn't realise that selling was a key skill for all of us, even if our job title didn't include the word "Sales".

I can't remember a single nugget of gold, except for this one, and only because it came with a story to remind me.

When you're selling anything to anyone (products, services, even just your point of view), they're normally going to come back at you with some reasoned objection - some reason why what you just said is wrong, isn't going to work, or doesn't apply to them.

You can listen politely, hear them out, and then reply:

Yes, but (your response).


The problem with Yes, but is that it sounds an awful lot like you weren't actually listening to them, but that you were just waiting for your turn to talk again.

BUT is a powerful negative word.

It creates a big BUTTRESS between you and the result you want.

The conversation stops immediately you say Yes, but and you might as well both continue talking with your arms crossed.



Instead of saying:

Yes, BUT

Try saying:

Yes, AND



It's hard work doing this right.

You have to listen to what they said, work out why they said it, make your point by acknowledging what they said, and then ADD to the conversation POSITIVELY.




The way I always remember this tip?

My friend told me they were doing a role-play to practice Yes, AND.

They sat in a circle and took it in turns to say something inflammatory and hard to agree with.

The next person had to stand up and say "Yes, and" then try to put a positive spin on what was said whilst getting their point across.

A fantastic example of how NOT to do this was when someone said:

"Margaret Thatcher was the best thing to happen to Britain".

The next guy stood up and said:


Yes, and ...



BOLLOCKS
In the German language it translates as "ja, und" which closely resembles "Naund" which translates back into english as "so what". :D
 
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Andy Black

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In the German language it translates as "ja, und" which closely resembles "Naund" which translates back into english as "so what". :D
Wow. That's so apt. People are pretty much saying "So what" when they say "Yes, but" and completely ignore what you said.
 

Andy Black

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The substitute for the word BUT is the word AND. By using BUT, you negate everything that the other person said. It's a total rebuttal to everything that came before.
The other powerful word is TRY. My doctor used to tell me that, "Triers are liars." That word also lets people off of the hook.
Both words are hedge words that allow people to be passive-aggressive in their replies.
Sometimes people even say stuff like ”I’m going to start trying to learn XYZ.”

“I’m doing XYZ.” is better.

“I’ve done XYZ.” is better still.
 

calebbschilling

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I used to have a friend who sold drugs.

The police were extremely worried when a large batch of drugs were stolen from his car.

... until he told them he was selling laxatives that week.

They found that highly amusing.


Anyway, my friend was a very good salesman (selling to busy doctors in understaffed hospitals is quite a feat.)

Over a few pints every weekend he'd tell me stories and sales tips he'd learned.

I wish I'd paid more attention, but back then I didn't realise that selling was a key skill for all of us, even if our job title didn't include the word "Sales".

I can't remember a single nugget of gold, except for this one, and only because it came with a story to remind me.

When you're selling anything to anyone (products, services, even just your point of view), they're normally going to come back at you with some reasoned objection - some reason why what you just said is wrong, isn't going to work, or doesn't apply to them.

You can listen politely, hear them out, and then reply:

Yes, but (your response).


The problem with Yes, but is that it sounds an awful lot like you weren't actually listening to them, but that you were just waiting for your turn to talk again.

BUT is a powerful negative word.

It creates a big BUTTRESS between you and the result you want.

The conversation stops immediately you say Yes, but and you might as well both continue talking with your arms crossed.



Instead of saying:

Yes, BUT

Try saying:

Yes, AND



It's hard work doing this right.

You have to listen to what they said, work out why they said it, make your point by acknowledging what they said, and then ADD to the conversation POSITIVELY.




The way I always remember this tip?

My friend told me they were doing a role-play to practice Yes, AND.

They sat in a circle and took it in turns to say something inflammatory and hard to agree with.

The next person had to stand up and say "Yes, and" then try to put a positive spin on what was said whilst getting their point across.

A fantastic example of how NOT to do this was when someone said:

"Margaret Thatcher was the best thing to happen to Britain".

The next guy stood up and said:


Yes, and ...



BOLLOCKS
Never thought about it like! Thank you!
 

Darwin Diaz

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I used to have a friend who sold drugs.

The police were extremely worried when a large batch of drugs were stolen from his car.

... until he told them he was selling laxatives that week.

They found that highly amusing.


Anyway, my friend was a very good salesman (selling to busy doctors in understaffed hospitals is quite a feat.)

Over a few pints every weekend he'd tell me stories and sales tips he'd learned.

I wish I'd paid more attention, but back then I didn't realise that selling was a key skill for all of us, even if our job title didn't include the word "Sales".

I can't remember a single nugget of gold, except for this one, and only because it came with a story to remind me.

When you're selling anything to anyone (products, services, even just your point of view), they're normally going to come back at you with some reasoned objection - some reason why what you just said is wrong, isn't going to work, or doesn't apply to them.

You can listen politely, hear them out, and then reply:

Yes, but (your response).


The problem with Yes, but is that it sounds an awful lot like you weren't actually listening to them, but that you were just waiting for your turn to talk again.

BUT is a powerful negative word.

It creates a big BUTTRESS between you and the result you want.

The conversation stops immediately you say Yes, but and you might as well both continue talking with your arms crossed.



Instead of saying:

Yes, BUT

Try saying:

Yes, AND



It's hard work doing this right.

You have to listen to what they said, work out why they said it, make your point by acknowledging what they said, and then ADD to the conversation POSITIVELY.




The way I always remember this tip?

My friend told me they were doing a role-play to practice Yes, AND.

They sat in a circle and took it in turns to say something inflammatory and hard to agree with.

The next person had to stand up and say "Yes, and" then try to put a positive spin on what was said whilst getting their point across.

A fantastic example of how NOT to do this was when someone said:

"Margaret Thatcher was the best thing to happen to Britain".

The next guy stood up and said:


Yes, and ...



BOLLOCKS
Thank you Andy.

I'll be sure to implement this even in just day to day interactions
 

Andy Black

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But. The favourite word of people who won't do anything.
 
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Andy Black

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This thread was written as three installements:

Part 1 was when you’re selling something to someone.

Part 2 was when you’re selling someone on themselves.

Part 3 is simple - Selling yourself on yourself.
  1. Part 1 is post #1 in this thread.
  2. Part 2 is post #5 in this thread.
  3. Part 3 is post #26 in this thread.
 

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