Yes, another 'is it worth it to learn copywriting?' thread

[LPPC]

Hi all,

I've done lots of research on this topic and read all threads about it on fastlaneforum, but I still can't make a decision. Maybe you guys can give me some advice that will make the decision easier for me.

I don't know whether learning to write copy is a worthwhile investment of my time, at this stage of my journey.

I'm building my second e-commerce store. I will be selling a dog costume and the only thing that is left to do is write a product description/copy. I've never written copy before. I have two options: learn to write my own copy or outsource it.

I haven't had any entrepreneurial success yet. Should I invest time into learning how to write copy at this stage of my journey? Or should I spend the time on something more important and outsource the copy? Maybe I should spend time on product development/ testing more products instead of writing copy for now.

If this project won't be successful I might get into selling on Amazon instead of my own e-commerce store, because it might be a better option because of the free traffic you get on Amazon. If I sell on Amazon, will writing copy even have a significant impact on sales? Because on Amazon people are actively searching for the product, so they may not need the convincing that copywriting is useful for. If I switch to Amazon, then the months of learning how to write copy might have been bad usage of my time.

Does learning how to write copy help you a lot in product selection?

And even if I learn copywriting, I might never become as good as someone who does copywriting for a living and achieved mastery in it so in the end I might be better off outsourcing it... English is also not my native language.

In short, when you do e-commerce on Amazon or your own e-commerce store, should you learn copywriting and write your own copy? Or outsource it to someone who's whole life is spent doing copywriting and spend your own time on other aspects of your business?

Thanks in advance!

 

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[Nicoknowsbest]

I think you should try to answer some fundamental questions first.

Think about:

• What is copywriting for you?
• What do you expect from copywriting?
• Why do you think you need to learn copywriting?
• What keeps you from getting started today?
• What can you do today to help somebody?
• What do you think copywriting can do for you that other skills cannot?
• How does learning look in your head (reading, copying sales letters, etc.)?

Take some time on the weekend and think these through.

The answer will come to you.

 

[BigRomeDawg]

I learned a lot by following successful brands in my industries and analyzing their language and style. Gary V's book "Jab Jab Right Hook" is a collection of case studies of ads/copy on different platforms that worked or flopped and explains why.

I also learned lots from selling in-person since you get instant feedback on your pitch. My online pitch then becomes a version of the offline one.

I've never outsourced copy since I know my service and customers better than anyone else. But I'm selling a small amount of services. I guess outsourcing could be useful if you have tens or hundreds of landing pages?

You probably don't need to dedicate months to learning it, just learn as you go!

 

[MidwestLandlord]

So, I've been working on my first ever ecom site. It's an already operating business, but we are just now taking it online.

I'm writing the copy for the site. Writing copy, at least for me, is not easy. I'm just not a "creative" guy.

But, I did go out and learn enough about copy to know what bad copy looks like. This way I could write my own copy that I felt read as kind of "neutral"

It may not be good, but it ain't bad either.

If the market validates the site and we see sales, I'll likely hire a copywriter. For now, it's "good enough"

My point is, I learned enough about it to retain control.

This way, regardless of which route I choose, I educated myself enough to know if my copy is any good, or if the copy I am out-sourcing and paying money for is any good as well.

You're building this baby from scratch. A full-blown business with the potential to scale, all from the ground up, no? So why wouldn't you want to have your hands in all aspects of YOUR business during it's infancy?

 

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[AndrewNC]

If you want to own a hospital, do you want to spend 12 years of your life studying to be a doctor?

Or do you hire someone with years of experience to do that while you manage the growth of the hospital business?

I will be selling a dog costume and the only thing that is left to do is write a product description/copy.

What happens when you already have the copy written?

Let's fast forward to that date and imagine that you have your site up, the copy is written, and you hear crickets chirping in the background.

Can you create a picture in your imagination looking at your website with complete copy?

The real question is, how are you getting traffic to the site?

You're going to die...so speed is the name of the game. You'll never know if the copy is effective or not until you get traffic to the site. You can buy Google Search traffic for keywords related to your product.

When I sold my dog magazine subscription via Google Search traffic, I had a one paragraph description, the headline saying "_______ Dog Magazine Subscription"

Normally $24.95/year.
Today : $15.95/year.

And after spending about $35 on Adwords, I got my first sale from that traffic source.

24 hours after you get your first sale, you can hire someone who has experience writing copy to create a really great product description for you.

5 hours worth of work = you could get your first sales in the matter of a few days

And you can probably read the book Cashvertising in the amount of time it will take google to approve your first campaign if you're really interested in the subject.

Time. It's your most valuable asset.

 

[hughjasle]

In short, when you do e-commerce on Amazon or your own e-commerce store, should you learn copywriting and write your own copy? Or outsource it to someone who's whole life is spent doing copywriting and spend your own time on other aspects of your business?

Do both and get the best of both worlds.

Hire it out now and for the foreseeable future. Add copy write books and courses to you daily studies lists. after a few months of consumption you can choose to then write your own copy or continue hiring it out. If nothing else, you will better understand what the copy writers are doing and can tweak minor things for split tests.

 

[Brian C.]

Outsource the copy to me and sit back and enjoy your umbrella drink.

Kidding aside, learning to effectively communicate with your market is arguably the most important facet of ANY business.

If you're a great writer, understand advertising/marketing to a degree, and think you'll actually benefit from learning copywriting - go ahead. Gobble that shit up.

Learning copywriting is more than just words and grammatical structure. It's empathy. It's a true understanding of your audience - on a physiological, psychological, and personal level. It's an understanding of marketing and communication with a focus on the written word.

Despite my start in copywriting, I plan on outsourcing the majority of my copy in the future. But now, I know what to look for when hiring a copywriter.

Bottom Line: Learning to effectively communicate with your target market is NEVER at your disadvantage.

 

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[startinup]

The most valuable part of learning copywriting for me is not the skill...

I enjoy learning it but the best part for me was the mindset shift. As a copywriter, you have to think from the perspective of a customer or client. I've noticed that over the past 3 months I've been working on copywriting my mindset has shifted away from a focus on myself. Now I find it easier to empathize with a client or customer.

Also, you can use copywriting to make a good income while building up a more FastLane business.

With that said, I agree with @AndrewNC that it does take a good chunk of time to get good. I feel like I am just starting to really find my own style and write copy that drives sales.

---

My questions for you are:

Do you already have a tendency to want to solve others problems?

Are you good at empathizing with the problems of others?

---

If yes, then copywriting may not be necessary to achieve the important mindset shift of thinking about the customer first.

If no, then consider it a bit more and feel free to get started. There are tons of resources to do so on this site and others.

First: READ CA$VERTISING. It is compact, scientific and best of all sums up the most important ideas of many copywriting greats.
Second: Do Sinister Lex's 15 challenge
Third: Create your own adventure: get jobs yourself, get on upwork, etc.

Good Luck!

 

[Destined]

Hi all,

I've done lots of research on this topic and read all threads about it on fastlaneforum, but I still can't make a decision. Maybe you guys can give me some advice that will make the decision easier for me.

I don't know whether learning to write copy is a worthwhile investment of my time, at this stage of my journey.

I'm building my second e-commerce store. I will be selling a dog costume and the only thing that is left to do is write a product description/copy. I've never written copy before. I have two options: learn to write my own copy or outsource it.

I haven't had any entrepreneurial success yet. Should I invest time into learning how to write copy at this stage of my journey? Or should I spend the time on something more important and outsource the copy? Maybe I should spend time on product development/ testing more products instead of writing copy for now.

If this project won't be successful I might get into selling on Amazon instead of my own e-commerce store, because it might be a better option because of the free traffic you get on Amazon. If I sell on Amazon, will writing copy even have a significant impact on sales? Because on Amazon people are actively searching for the product, so they may not need the convincing that copywriting is useful for. If I switch to Amazon, then the months of learning how to write copy might have been bad usage of my time.

Does learning how to write copy help you a lot in product selection?

And even if I learn copywriting, I might never become as good as someone who does copywriting for a living and achieved mastery in it so in the end I might be better off outsourcing it... English is also not my native language.

In short, when you do e-commerce on Amazon or your own e-commerce store, should you learn copywriting and write your own copy? Or outsource it to someone who's whole life is spent doing copywriting and spend your own time on other aspects of your business?

Thanks in advance!

Copywriting is human psychology, at it's best. If you want to have success in business/sales/marketing/advertising...then learn it and keep learning it. Writing ads, descriptions needs to have persuasion. Your goal is to motivate someone, to take action. Whatever that action is, whether to buy something or sign up for your newsletter. Learning copy and getting more into human psychology can increase, your success. I been following this stuff for over 12 years now and it is very helpful.....

 

[GoodluckChuck]

Wow this is a lot of great feedback for you!

My favorite suggestion was to study copywriting and hire a good copywriter... Then you can learn about it while you see a good copy product in action. Cashvertising is a great book. I mind mapped the whole thing on my tablet and look at it every time I'm thinking about sales and marketing.

My nugget of insight for you is this: my buddy growing up had a loud epiphany one day.
"I am going to stop delaying! I am no longer going to spend more time thinking about doing something than it would take to just do it!"

Great idea!

You have already spent a lot of time considering copywriting yourself. In this time you could have hired a copywriter for this project, therefore getting your site closer to being live, and read some of Cashvertising.

This is what @AndrewNC was talking about. Speed is your friend! Good luck!

 

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[Destined]

I read Cashvertising in 2009, it was a great book and very informative. This is probably, the best copywiriting book ever written(Breakthrough Advertising) and very hard to understand, for newcomers. Breakthrough Advertising: Eugene M. Schwartz, Martin Edelston: 9780887232985: Amazon.com: Books

If you get, a chance pick it up or check it out at the library....if they have it.

That book, is filled with so much gems and psychology. It, is a must have for all marketers/business people...

 

[LPPC]

@Nicoknowsbest Thank you, those are some good questions to think about. Also makes me think about what copywriting actually is.

@rogainer Thanks for taking your time to write your viewpoint on this!

@MidwestLandlord Very good point about being able to tell whether the copy being out-sourced and paid for is any good as, when you can write decent copy yourself. Thank you!

@AndrewNC Hey Andrew, you explained your point very well. Time is indeed something I value highly and try to be careful with and spend it wisely. I was planning to drive traffic to my site using Facebook ads. Indeed, I will be hiring a copywriter for now and try to validate my idea as soon as possible. Thanks man!

@hughjasle You are coming to my rescue, yet again! This is indeed the best solution for me at this moment. Thanks for sharing your genius
Do you think that good copy is also very important for Amazon listings? So it's worthwhile to learn copy even when you only sell on Amazon? I often see highest ranking products have very little to no copy. Only bullet points of the features.

@Brian C. People who can write decent copy all seem to agree with your points. Thanks.

@startinup The mindset shift is indeed something very valuable. Regarding your question, I can use a little bit of a mindset shift. I've actually read a bit of Cashvertising a while ago, and it indeed opened up a whole new world for me. Thank you!

@Destined 12 Years is a very long time indeed. Thank you for the book recommendation, I've added it to my ''books to read'' notes!

@GoodluckChuck Great feedback indeed, don't know what I would do without it Time is indeed of utmost importance, but that's also the reason I think it's very worthwhile to first investigate whether immersing yourself in something is worth your time. Copywriting needs serious dedication to become competent at, I think... I don't want to dedicate all that time without knowing for sure whether it's the best usage of my time. But yeah, I will be searching for a copywriter immediately.


I'm very grateful for your advice guys, thank you very much!

I have one more question: Do you think that good copy is also very important for Amazon listings? So it's worthwhile to learn copy even when you only sell on Amazon? I often see highest ranking products have very little to no copy. Only bullet points of the features. But on the other hand I also see high ranking products with extensive and good copy.

I'm wondering what the Amazon master @biophase has to say about this ^^

 

[arfadugus]

@Nicoknowsbest Thank you, those are some good questions to think about. Also makes me think about what copywriting actually is.

@rogainer Thanks for taking your time to write your viewpoint on this!

@MidwestLandlord Very good point about being able to tell whether the copy being out-sourced and paid for is any good as, when you can write decent copy yourself. Thank you!

@AndrewNC Hey Andrew, you explained your point very well. Time is indeed something I value highly and try to be careful with and spend it wisely. I was planning to drive traffic to my site using Facebook ads. Indeed, I will be hiring a copywriter for now and try to validate my idea as soon as possible. Thanks man!

@hughjasle You are coming to my rescue, yet again! This is indeed the best solution for me at this moment. Thanks for sharing your genius
Do you think that good copy is also very important for Amazon listings? So it's worthwhile to learn copy even when you only sell on Amazon? I often see highest ranking products have very little to no copy. Only bullet points of the features.

@Brian C. People who can write decent copy all seem to agree with your points. Thanks.

@startinup The mindset shift is indeed something very valuable. Regarding your question, I can use a little bit of a mindset shift. I've actually read a bit of Cashvertising a while ago, and it indeed opened up a whole new world for me. Thank you!

@Destined 12 Years is a very long time indeed. Thank you for the book recommendation, I've added it to my ''books to read'' notes!

@GoodluckChuck Great feedback indeed, don't know what I would do without it Time is indeed of utmost importance, but that's also the reason I think it's very worthwhile to first investigate whether immersing yourself in something is worth your time. Copywriting needs serious dedication to become competent at, I think... I don't want to dedicate all that time without knowing for sure whether it's the best usage of my time. But yeah, I will be searching for a copywriter immediately.


I'm very grateful for your advice guys, thank you very much!

I have one more question: Do you think that good copy is also very important for Amazon listings? So it's worthwhile to learn copy even when you only sell on Amazon? I often see highest ranking products have very little to no copy. Only bullet points of the features. But on the other hand I also see high ranking products with extensive and good copy.

I'm wondering what the Amazon master @biophase has to say about this ^^

I'm doing Amazon listing for a company and the copy isn't as important as the keywords. The copy just has to be basic.

 

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[GMSI7D]

The most valuable part of learning copywriting for me is not the skill...

I enjoy learning it but the best part for me was the mindset shift. As a copywriter, you have to think from the perspective of a customer or client. I've noticed that over the past 3 months I've been working on copywriting my mindset has shifted away from a focus on myself. Now I find it easier to empathize with a client or customer.

i see copywriting as a mind control tool. same category than NLP, hypnosis, seduction stuff from the seduction community and so on.

why do we need copywriting and well thought out sales system to make people buy anyway ?

because people are not logical.

so we have to engage their emotions with words . this is the same thing like propaganda in politics.

when asked about my life, i don' t say that i am a marketer , a local hypnotist or anything.

i just say " i am a social engineer " which means managing people's perception for the best interest of everybody.

 

[ExaltedLife]

i see copywriting as a mind control tool. same category than NLP, hypnosis, seduction stuff from the seduction community and so on.

why do we need copywriting and well thought out sales system to make people buy anyway ?

because people are not logical. so we have to engage their emotions with words

Nonsense. If you have to disregard logic to appeal to emotions, you're a con artist. Some of the best copy ever written catered to logic first, emotions second: "...the loudest noise in the new Rolls-Royce comes from the electric clock".

 

[GMSI7D]

Nonsense. If you have to disregard logic to appeal to emotions, you're a con artist. Some of the best copy ever written catered to logic first, emotions second: "...the loudest noise in the new Rolls-Royce comes from the electric clock".

what interest me is what works in the real life : the way the masses are managed by the elite and so on.

if you call that being a con artist then i thank you very much !

 

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[ExaltedLife]

what interest me is what works in the real life : the way the masses are managed by the elite and so on.

if you call that being a con artist then i thank you very much !

Yeah sure and then when you have kids you can turn them into retards so they aren't smart enough to back talk you and then pat yourself on the back for how smart you are.

The joke is on you, people are naturally intelligent. Your attitude that people are primarily emotional and illogical beings is exactly why 90% of advertising today sucks. That attitude isn't rare, it's common.

 

[mindfulimmortal]

Lessons to be learned in this article article from Neville Medhora/Kopywriting Kourse on how Copywriting helps Home Depot "illegal" workers get jobs (and helps the consumer needing their services)

https://kopywritingkourse.com/hiring-day-laborers/