Would you invest in high ticket coaching?

[JoeyF]

Im just about to move into my city centre office and at the top of my mind is client acquisition for my Adwords business.

I've come across a consultant/coach who seemingly teaches exactly what I need, an exact system on generating leads for businesses needing my Adwords service.

I've spoken to the guy and he appeared to know his stuff. His strategies are based on using LinkedIn and D.mail.

The deal is, it's roughly $6000 to enroll in his 12 week coaching program where he'll work with me until successful and guarantees that I'll be extremely satisfied with the result.

If this guy can do what he claims, it would be solving the bottleneck issue I have in my biz and allow me to serve a much higher number of clients than I do now, with the financial rewards being pretty lucrative.

I'm just starting to do some due diligence at this stage as I consider this as an option but was hoping to get the thoughts of some of you guys.

If you think this sounds like a scam or a dubious proposition let me know, I'm absolutely in two minds about it myself right now.

He has agreed to allow me to pay half up front with the other half being paid within 30 days pending me seeing the results so the cost to enroll now would be roughly $3k which isn't a huge stretch financially.

Thoughts?

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Im just about to move into my city centre office and at the top of my mind is client acquisition for my Adwords business.

I've come across a consultant/coach who seemingly teaches exactly what I need, an exact system on generating leads for businesses needing my Adwords service.

I've spoken to the guy and he appeared to know his stuff. His strategies are based on using LinkedIn and D.mail.

The deal is, it's roughly $6000 to enroll in his 12 week coaching program where he'll work with me until successful and guarantees that I'll be extremely satisfied with the result.

If this guy can do what he claims, it would be solving the bottleneck issue I have in my biz and allow me to serve a much higher number of clients than I do now, with the financial rewards being pretty lucrative.

I'm just starting to do some due diligence at this stage as I consider this as an option but was hoping to get the thoughts of some of you guys.

If you think this sounds like a scam or a dubious proposition let me know, I'm absolutely in two minds about it myself right now.

He has agreed to allow me to pay half up front with the other half being paid within 30 days pending me seeing the results so the cost to enroll now would be roughly $3k which isn't a huge stretch financially.

Thoughts?

Have you asked here on the forum about how to solve your bottleneck? Usually advice here is free.

What is this guy's history? Who has he helped? How did he help them? How many millions did they attribute afterward to his coaching?

It's difficult to say it sounds like a scam or doesn't based on no pertinent information.

In fact, ask him who his past clients were and then contact them.

 

[Ubermensch]

Have you asked here on the forum about how to solve your bottleneck? Usually advice here is free.

What is this guy's history? Who has he helped? How did he help them? How many millions did they attribute afterward to his coaching?

It's difficult to say it sounds like a scam or doesn't based on no pertinent information.

In fact, ask him who his past clients were and then contact them.

Agreed.

How about a link to the guy's website, or at least his Linkedin?

 

[vitality11]

Would love to hear what others have to say.

If you do end up going with him....
6000 over 12 weeks is 500 for every week.
I don't have lots of experience negotiating but I'd like if I could pay 400 on a monthly basis and if I met my targets, I'd pay 2000 dollar bonus at the end. That would come out to 6800 dollars but you expose yourself to less risk since it on a month-to-month basis.

 

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[Andy Black]

Im just about to move into my city centre office and at the top of my mind is client acquisition for my Adwords business.

I've come across a consultant/coach who seemingly teaches exactly what I need, an exact system on generating leads for businesses needing my Adwords service.

I've spoken to the guy and he appeared to know his stuff. His strategies are based on using LinkedIn and D.mail.

The deal is, it's roughly $6000 to enroll in his 12 week coaching program where he'll work with me until successful and guarantees that I'll be extremely satisfied with the result.

If this guy can do what he claims, it would be solving the bottleneck issue I have in my biz and allow me to serve a much higher number of clients than I do now, with the financial rewards being pretty lucrative.

I'm just starting to do some due diligence at this stage as I consider this as an option but was hoping to get the thoughts of some of you guys.

If you think this sounds like a scam or a dubious proposition let me know, I'm absolutely in two minds about it myself right now.

He has agreed to allow me to pay half up front with the other half being paid within 30 days pending me seeing the results so the cost to enroll now would be roughly $3k which isn't a huge stretch financially.

Thoughts?

Client acquisition for your AdWords business?

Maybe we can swap notes? I'll do it for free.

 

[The-J]

Client acquisition for your AdWords business?

Maybe we can swap notes? I'll do it for free.

Mate, you gotta start a high-ticket coaching business

 

[Andy Black]

Mate, you gotta start a high-ticket coaching business

Thanks for the kind words. High-ticket coaching is just sooo not on my radar.

My AdWords clients get coaching from me I guess, but the people who'd benefit the most from coaching are the newest.

Those already in motion and with a good track record can often find a way themselves, or can afford outside help.

My "passion" is to help the people who can't help themselves to get to the point where they *can* help themselves.


OP, to answer your question of "would I pay for high-ticket coaching?" ... Yes, I would if I thought it was worth it.

 

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[Ubermensch]

\

Mate, you gotta start a high-ticket coaching business

There's no doubt about this.

@Andy Black You kind of owe it to serious players (people willing to pay to learn to win) and capitalism to make this happen.

The only other guy that I know who I'd trust to handle my campaign is one of my contacts in Chicago, Bill Lederer.

Bill sold art.com for $100M and founded the digital media company www.mediacrossing.com a few years later.

Last time Bill and I chatted, he said that to BEGIN working with him, I'd need to pay him a $50,000 retainer. This is, quite honestly, reasonable for the knowledge and experience I'd get from him.

I'd pay him because I trust him in the field.

Trust is earned.

You've earned it here.

 

[JoeyF]

Sorry folks, realised I was being a bit vague in my initial message (it was rushed).

The guy I'm speaking to is Cody Butler. I hadn't heard of him until last week, when I saw one of his ads. He came across as a really nice guy and definitely knows his stuff. His website is here: http://www.web-360.co.uk/

I usually just ignore any coaching offers I see because see there is so much dodgy sh*t going on with that world but this spoke directly to ME which as a marketer, I understand is the most powerful way you can market, but as a business owner I thought "maybe this guy can really help"

When I got off the phone, I was pretty jazzed about the idea of having a system in place that will get me on the phone with my ideal audience which can then be handed off to a sales person to keep the leads flowing in.

My girlfriend shot it down immediately, saying she thinks its shady. Ultimately, it's up to me of course but that kind of took the wind out of my sails a bit. I still have some other peeps I need to run this past as well.

But I greatly value the opinions on here as in the short time I've been here, I have found this to be a very switched on group of people!

Client acquisition for your AdWords business?

Maybe we can swap notes? I'll do it for free.

Would be a pleasure Andy. Thanks

 

[The-J]

Thanks for the kind words. High-ticket coaching is just sooo not on my radar.

My AdWords clients get coaching from me I guess, but the people who'd benefit the most from coaching are the newest.

Those already in motion and with a good track record can often find a way themselves, or can afford outside help.

My "passion" is to help the people who can't help themselves to get to the point where they *can* help themselves.

I understand: being a 'guru' isn't on your radar. I imagine it's the same reason MJ doesn't do seminars or coaching, ever.

But @Ubermensch has a point: you've got a skillset that's rare enough to package into an easy-to-digest course, at the very least... or work with very large clients, at the very most.

You've got the credibility here to condense, say, 3 months worth of coaching into several easy-to-digest packaged courses and people here will buy it.

OP: High ticket coaching is rarely about the ticket price, but the ticket price might say something about how the person running the business operates. If they're marketing a $6k course to total noobs, that might be a red flag. However, marketing a $6k course to people already doing 6 figures who want to make it to 7... that's a little more believable.

 

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[Ubermensch]

I understand: being a 'guru' isn't on your radar. I imagine it's the same reason MJ doesn't do seminars or coaching, ever.

But @Ubermensch has a point: you've got a skillset that's rare enough to package into an easy-to-digest course, at the very least... or work with very large clients, at the very most.

You've got the credibility here to condense, say, 3 months worth of coaching into several easy-to-digest packaged courses and people here will buy it.

OP: High ticket coaching is rarely about the ticket price, but the ticket price might say something about how the person running the business operates. If they're marketing a $6k course to total noobs, that might be a red flag. However, marketing a $6k course to people already doing 6 figures who want to make it to 7... that's a little more believable.

Regarding price, that depends: What is success worth to you?

How much would you pay to fast-track your success by hiring a pro to do what it would take you months... probably years to do?

Guru is almost a nasty word at this point.

However, it takes 10,000 hours to create a Master.

Either invest the 10,000 hours yourself, or pay a Master to show you The Way.

Time is money, and you have to pay the Universe and this world with at least one to win.

 

[The-J]

Regarding price, that depends: What is success worth to you?

How much would you pay to fast-track your success by hiring a pro to do what it would take you months... probably years to do?

Guru is almost a nasty word at this point.

However, it takes 10,000 hours to create a Master.

Either invest the 10,000 hours yourself, or pay a Master to show you The Way.

Time is money, and you have to pay the Universe and this world with at least one to win.

Absolutely true. However, I've noticed certain patterns in guru-type offerings. Basically, high priced offerings that are aimed at total neophytes often are a signal that the 'guru' is not so interested in providing actual success to their customer.

As far as willingness to pay... I'm personally willing to pay quite a lot to be shown the way. Trouble is, dickheads know that, and will use your exact argument (which is 100% correct, by the way) to pitch their shitty products.

I'm just saying: OP needs to do his due diligence.

 

[JoeyF]

OK, bit of a story here regarding my past which some may find interesting...

3 years ago I invested in a high ticket coaching program. I was in a bad spot at the time and was a bit desperate to find a solution to a declining business and what happened turned out to be a valuable lesson.

I stumbled into a high ticket coach who assured me he had all the answers.

I forked out £4000 which was money I couldn't afford to lose.

It was a mistake, my mistake and it put me into one of the toughest periods of my life, being close to broke and depressed.

The way I was lured into the program, looking back, was totally unethical but it was my decision to do it in the end and I take responsibility for that.

The funny thing though, is that during the period of immense struggle I landed a client who turned out to be the key to the massively successful business I have today.

Despite the fact that I was struggling so bad, I didn't ever give up because of how much was a stake and even though the specific coaching program I had joined wasn't right for me, I worked my fingers to the bone and pivoted into the Adwords offer which is now the bread and butter of my current, very successful business.

If I hadn't had that experience, I don't know where I would be right now and I'm very glad to be where I'm at right now....

So now that I find myself in a very strong position with an opportunity to take on coaching and a new perspective without stretching financially I ask myself what's the worst that could happen vs what's the best that could happen

 

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[JoeyF]

Absolutely true. However, I've noticed certain patterns in guru-type offerings. Basically, high priced offerings that are aimed at total neophytes often are a signal that the 'guru' is not so interested in providing actual success to their customer.

As far as willingness to pay... I'm personally willing to pay quite a lot to be shown the way. Trouble is, dickheads know that, and will use your exact argument (which is 100% correct, by the way) to pitch their shitty products.

I'm just saying: OP needs to do his due diligence.

Absolutely and I fully intend to do so. I learned from previous experience never to rush things that are of this importance and to explore all of the possibilities and factors.

Good points by the way.

 

[Dave510]

If you already run a hugely successful business and the 3k (if you don't see results then presumably you wouldn't pay the other 3k) isn't going to hit you hard even if you lose it, then do it. Sure you potentially risk losing 3k, but if the potential gain is big enough, then it's a +EV decision (as long as you trust that he has a reasonable chance to deliver).

 

[JoeyF]

If you already run a hugely successful business and the 3k (if you don't see results then presumably you wouldn't pay the other 3k) isn't going to hit you hard even if you lose it, then do it. Sure you potentially risk losing 3k, but if the potential gain is big enough, then it's a +EV decision (as long as you trust that he has a reasonable chance to deliver).

Yeah "hugely" successful might be a bit strong. I am enjoying success at the moment, but it's small potatoes compared to where I want to be.

Of course! I have used WCCA and WADM for other things lately, why didn't I think about it for this.

Based on WCCA: The worst case consequence is that I would lose the $3k and wouldn't make a difference to my life other being pissed off as I could have spent it better somewhere else had I known.

I would say for it to be a complete bust would be unlikely because I already have something going and all it would take is 1 sale to make my money back.

It definitely feels like an acceptable risk.

I'm going to contact a couple of the folks who left a testimonial for him on his site today.

 

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[Ubermensch]

Would love to hear what others have to say.

If you do end up going with him....
6000 over 12 weeks is 500 for every week.
I don't have lots of experience negotiating but I'd like if I could pay 400 on a monthly basis and if I met my targets, I'd pay 2000 dollar bonus at the end. That would come out to 6800 dollars but you expose yourself to less risk since it on a month-to-month basis.

Consider how much people pay for a college education, which prepares them for a career in coffee-brewing at Starbucks. Just something to think about.

Absolutely true. However, I've noticed certain patterns in guru-type offerings. Basically, high priced offerings that are aimed at total neophytes often are a signal that the 'guru' is not so interested in providing actual success to their customer.

As far as willingness to pay... I'm personally willing to pay quite a lot to be shown the way. Trouble is, dickheads know that, and will use your exact argument (which is 100% correct, by the way) to pitch their shitty products.

I'm just saying: OP needs to do his due diligence.

Agreed, and I think Andy's response above is right on point in this regard.

Thanks for the kind words. High-ticket coaching is just sooo not on my radar.

Most people know this old adage: "Those who can't do... teach."

You're so busy "doing" that teaching is not on your radar.

This, ironically, is what makes you such a great candidate for the business model.

 

[Andy Black]

Most people know this old adage: "Those who can't do... teach."

You're so busy "doing" that teaching is not on your radar.

This, ironically, is what makes you such a great candidate for the business model.

Funny, I've been thinking about that line and I don't agree with it. Not every professional athlete can teach or coach. Many excellent teachers aren't "pros" at whatever they're teaching. I think teaching itself is a separate skill, and not everyone can do it.

I've been doing Maths grinds twice a week for 17/18 year olds just about to sit their leaving exams. To me, this is critical and an incredible ROI on my time.

I suppose if I create some AdWords course and it helps a few people to keep their heads above water and provide for their families, then that too is an incredible ROI on my time.

I know you may disagree, but for me, it's not about the money I make, but about the impact I make.


OP, I hope this isn't derailing. Treat your particular decision as an exercise in ROI. But also, maybe there's mentors out there who's ROI doesn't come back as money...

 

[Jon L]

\


There's no doubt about this.

@Andy Black You kind of owe it to serious players (people willing to pay to learn to win) and capitalism to make this happen.

The only other guy that I know who I'd trust to handle my campaign is one of my contacts in Chicago, Bill Lederer.

Bill sold art.com for $100M and founded the digital media company www.mediacrossing.com a few years later.

Last time Bill and I chatted, he said that to BEGIN working with him, I'd need to pay him a $50,000 retainer. This is, quite honestly, reasonable for the knowledge and experience I'd get from him.

I'd pay him because I trust him in the field.

Trust is earned.

You've earned it here.

@Andy Black I completely agree with this. This needs to be on your radar. Time to 20x your income. You can still help people at much reduced rates when they need/deserve it, but the value you bring demands more $$$

 

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[Ubermensch]

@Andy Black I completely agree with this. This needs to be on your radar. Time to 20x your income.

20x. Hell yea.

You can still help people at much reduced rates when they need/deserve it, but the value you bring demands more $$$

Dollar signs are so sexy.

Funny, I've been thinking about that line and I don't agree with it. Not every professional athlete can teach or coach. Many excellent teachers aren't "pros" at whatever they're teaching. I think teaching itself is a separate skill, and not everyone can do it.

I've been doing Maths grinds twice a week for 17/18 year olds just about to sit their leaving exams. To me, this is critical and an incredible ROI on my time.

I suppose if I create some AdWords course and it helps a few people to keep their heads above water and provide for their families, then that too is an incredible ROI on my time.

I know you may disagree, but for me, it's not about the money I make, but about the impact I make.


OP, I hope this isn't derailing. Treat your particular decision as an exercise in ROI. But also, maybe there's mentors out there who's ROI doesn't come back as money...

A true master teaches with every word, and every action.

 

[Ubermensch]

Client acquisition for your AdWords business?

Maybe we can swap notes? I'll do it for free.

 

[tdogg444]

@JoeyF Did you end up doing this? He contacted me with the exact same offer, 3k up front 3k after 30 days. Sounds almost too good to be true. What ended up happening?

 

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[JoeyF]

Hey dude. It was a mixed bag. It didn't transform my business but I feel I've had a positive ROI using the email script that Cody gave me.

Here's my big takeaway: I think the system is good, very good if you're targeting the right type of business.

Like Cody, who goes after dental implant clients in the US where they have a huge hunger for more patients and a colossal profit. That's the kind of business that this can work well with.

In the UK, it's a bit more of a struggle to find small/medium businesses with the ambition to match a £3k-£5k per month marketing spend and I think it's much harder to get over the trust barrier here than the states, where this kind of investment is a bit more expected.

Cody is a good guy in my experience and super smart marketer. Even if you just watch the way he markets his coaching biz you can learn a lot.

I did some due diligence before working with him, spoke to a couple of his old clients and they both gave him a great review.

Hope that helps you my friend.

 

[Andy Black]

I've noticed the bigger appetite for ad spend in the US compared to the UK/IE.

I actually prefer working with the smaller guys with the lower ad spends.

Even if you just watch the way he markets his coaching biz you can learn a lot.

This is what I prefer ... to watch what people actually do.

There's so much free marketing coaching going on out there, and if you purchase their initial offers you get to see how they market to you in their up-sell and cross-sell funnels.


EDIT: Myself and @JoeyF had a chat that we recorded and dropped into the forum. I'll go dig out the link later...

 

[tdogg444]

Hey dude. It was a mixed bag. It didn't transform my business but I feel I've had a positive ROI using the email script that Cody gave me.

Here's my big takeaway: I think the system is good, very good if you're targeting the right type of business.

Like Cody, who goes after dental implant clients in the US where they have a huge hunger for more patients and a colossal profit. That's the kind of business that this can work well with.

In the UK, it's a bit more of a struggle to find small/medium businesses with the ambition to match a £3k-£5k per month marketing spend and I think it's much harder to get over the trust barrier here than the states, where this kind of investment is a bit more expected.

Cody is a good guy in my experience and super smart marketer. Even if you just watch the way he markets his coaching biz you can learn a lot.

I did some due diligence before working with him, spoke to a couple of his old clients and they both gave him a great review.

Hope that helps you my friend.

Perfect, thanks for the awesome reply. I am mainly concerned with being able to provide good results for clients, I'm very confident that once I get them on the phone that I can make the sale.

The main things i'm not so confident on is how to generate leads for clients without adspend(linkedin), and a good script to get the clients I am pitching on the phone.

So I guess the main things I'm wanting to learn are how to get great results for clients without adspend, and how to get them on the phone. Do you think Cody's training will help with this?

Really appreciate the reply!

 

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[JoeyF]

Perfect, thanks for the awesome reply. I am mainly concerned with being able to provide good results for clients, I'm very confident that once I get them on the phone that I can make the sale.

The main things i'm not so confident on is how to generate leads for clients without adspend(linkedin), and a good script to get the clients I am pitching on the phone.

So I guess the main things I'm wanting to learn are how to get great results for clients without adspend, and how to get them on the phone. Do you think Cody's training will help with this?

Really appreciate the reply!

I'm not sure about that. Why would you want to try and get them results without ad spend?

Cody is all about generating big ROI for clients based on PPC advertising for the most part.

He might be up to something new that I don't know of though, but it seems to me you may be confusing what he can do for you.

His main thing is showing students how to use LinkedIn (and cold email/direct mail) to get interest from businesses so that you can get them on the phone and close them on your PPC services.