Would you go to Harvard Business School For Free?

[Fox]

Back ten years ago - yes.
For the connections and education.

Nowadays - probably not.
Strong chance of ending up brainwashed or in jail for wrongthink.

 

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[Raja]

Going to school, even elite one, would be like riding the fastlane but in opposite direction.

It would be even worse than doing nothing.

After you'd finish such school you'd have to unlearn everything they told you and only then start learning how business is done in reality.

So its double waste, not mentioning opportunity cost.

I doubt that, the connections would be very useful.

It would also be great to find your future employees

 

[Andy Black]

Me and academia are like oil and water now. I’d be squirming in my chair.

I’d rather give classes than sit through them.

I’d also rather go to a local evening class on woodworking, story writing, or photography than attend anything business related in person.

 

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[Jon L]

Would they try to indoctrinate me in wokeism and critical race theory? If so, I'd fail, so no.

 

[Kak]

See title.

Also, swap in whatever [X] elite business school (or even include law school, since lots of powerful people, including entrepreneurs and major investors, seem to have studied law).

Why would you take that opportunity, or why would you decline it?

What might change your decision?

Do these programs unlock anything in your life's journey as a businessman, fastlaner, etc? Or just a waste of time?

I would have done it at 18. Now, hell no.

I paid a lot for a much less prestigious college. That was also 13 years ago and a lot has changed.

Schooling is unbearable to me. I learn best by doing the real thing.

 

[Rabby]

Not a chance. Nothing is free. It would cost time, and I can't imagine any benefit. Maybe for someone, but not me. I don't even read Harvard's publications most of the time... so I'm at engagement level zero with them I guess.

 

[Saad Khan]

See title.

Also, swap in whatever [X] elite business school (or even include law school, since lots of powerful people, including entrepreneurs and major investors, seem to have studied law).

Why would you take that opportunity, or why would you decline it?

What might change your decision?

Do these programs unlock anything in your life's journey as a businessman, fastlaner, etc? Or just a waste of time?

It's a no brainer for me, would love to establish connections

 

[Jon L]

You forgot one: Black Holes Are Racist.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Black holes suck.

Isn't capitalism itself racist? So not sure how that works at a woke business school.

 

[Andy Black]

Its interesting ... we're all contemplating a FREE education at perhaps the most prestigious university in the world, and we're turning it down. That tells you something.

It’s not free though. There’s the time commitment, which means time not spent on something else.

It’s nothing against Harvard in particular @BizyDad. I’m repelled by the idea of sitting through a long curriculum.

 

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[Jon L]

Wracking my brain but can’t figure out what CRT is…

I wish it would still mean Cathode Ray Tube. But alas...

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

See title.

Also, swap in whatever [X] elite business school (or even include law school, since lots of powerful people, including entrepreneurs and major investors, seem to have studied law).

Why would you take that opportunity, or why would you decline it?

What might change your decision?

Do these programs unlock anything in your life's journey as a businessman, fastlaner, etc? Or just a waste of time?

 

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[AceVentures]

Uncle got a PhD at a prestigious uni and his opportunities skyrocketed from the connections he made. Those opened up doors to even more connections with foreign governments. From them he was able to secure 9 figure funding for a business he started. His life has never been the same.

Before he got his PhD he had worked as an engineer, opened multiple businesses, and failed at all of them.

He had hustle since day one, but his newly gained credentials allowed him to land meetings and connections with people with influence and power above anything in his entourage before that.

That's one example of someone that combined his hustle with the credentials to shoot really high. Idk if it's a recipe that people can follow for similar results. The biggest downside is spending years getting the damn thing but it doesn't do for you what you hoped. Or worse, your perspective becomes siloed as others have pointed.

 

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[Runum]

Wracking my brain but can’t figure out what CRT is…

Critical Race Theory. Hot topic these days.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Wracking my brain but can’t figure out what CRT is…

On one hand I envy you for not knowing what this is.

On the other hand, you need to know what it is because if it becomes widespread, you're going to be punished too...

 

[humananalytics]

I think a lot of you guys might not fully understand what MBAs are for. In general the curriculum is not difficult, it's not super time consuming, and it's primarily for the brand/connections/pay. I'd choose Stanford over Harvard though for entrepreneurship.

There are 4 reasons why I'd do it in a heartbeat:
1) You'd have a ton of free time to work on business ideas and fundraise. The curriculum is very light. It's known to basically be a mini-vacation for most people.

2) You get access to connections that help you raise tons of money, if you want to "go big" with your start-up. MBA VC Funding. Last year 39 startups came from Stanford, raising $1.4B. Almost all venture capital investors have very significant ties to Stanford, you can raise money so much easier as a Stanford MBA.

3) You get access to some of the best possible co-founders. If you go to a place like Stanford, you have some of the best computer scientists in the world at your finger tips, and you'd be able to start things with them (especially the undergrads) before they get used to huge salaries all the Big Tech companies will offer them

4) You'll have a salary floor for the rest of your life. Post-MBA pay is pretty standardized at around 200k/year for the top schools. If you fail your start-up and need to work a job, you'll still be living in style.

Overall, what's there to lose? Unless you already have access to all of these things, it's a no brainer. There's actually so much investor money out there and investors are itching to deploy capital, BUT it is often gated behind connections and prestige.

 

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[BizyDad]

Generally, no. The kid who worked through JC doesn't *expect* anything. They learned some skills and want to go apply them now.

Someone who works their way through an Ivy League school, self evidently, is expecting a payoff for attending (or else, why go there?)

It sounds like you think all Ivy Leaguers are lawyers and business school types.

But Harvard offers 97 different degrees.

How is it self evident that all of them are pretentious folks out for themselves?

(And the JC kid doesn't expect a payoff? Then why is he or she paying the money? Out of the goodness of their heart?)

So, I'd rather take the person without the pretentiousness. Who worked hard, because working hard is what they do (with no expectations at what it will do for them).

If we want to make generalizations, aren't the GC people are slackers who have to get their grades up in order to get into a "real school"?

The hard working kids got scholarships, either athletic or scholastic.

Of course my generalization isn't any more true or false than yours. Gosh, it sure sounds true, doesn't it?

(Just so we're clear, I was both the slacker who needed to get his grades up and hard worker who paid his way through school. I'm not here to judge anybody. It took me 10 yrs and 4 colleges to get my 4 yr degree...in finance - because of course I wanted to get something for my money )

But the person you describe sounds like almost every Ivy leaguer I know. The scientist who desperately wants to study the oceans for next to no pay. The two running not for profit endeavours. The one working on refugee issues in Africa, who I'm really afraid will just get kidnapped or worse one day. The nuclear physicist that's trying to find new uses for nuclear waste. The researchers, the bearucrats, the historian, the writers. The two who went into a career in the armed forces.

Most of these people know they're going to go into a low salary position, at a largely thankless job, and have higher school debt than than a junior college kid.

These are the hard workers who aren't afraid of tackling big problems. That's not pretentious.

And these Ivy Leaguers are going to be generally smarter. Not always, but generally.

That's not the kind of person you want on your team, cool. Just please don't write off someone's resume because you see an Ivy League school on it. That's all I'm really suggesting here.

--------

I don't want to argue with everybody. I just can't help but see how many assumptions about Ivy Leaguers are on here that aren't actually 100% gospel true.

So I'm just trying to provide a different point of view.

I texted a sophomore at Harvard and asked what they thought about critical race theory. They said what's critical race theory?

I guess Harvard sucks at indoctrination.

Sounds like a bunch of people on here are parroting what right wing media wants you to believe. Maybe. Or maybe it will destroy society.

The left has COVID the right has CRT. And everybody's getting all angry and up in arms again.

I'm no expert on any of it, because I'm not really plugged into the news or doing research.

I did find this though.

"A search of the Nexis database finds that the term “critical race theory” appeared in U.S. newspapers 1,361 times in the 21 years between January 2000 and New Year’s Day, 2021. It has appeared 6000 times in the six months since." source

Brainwashing is bad fam.

Like I said, I don't want to argue. Especially since I have a ton of respect for the posters on here who I happen to disagree with on this. Everyone is entitled to their preferences, opinions, and there is no right and wrong. Obviously no one is going to make Andy Black enjoy sitting in a class.

I just wanted to provide some counterpoints with the goal of achieving a more well-rounded discussion.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

As a side note, if engineering school or science school was included in the question, I might have considered it. Business and law is the real downer here. Business schools seem to want to train people to fine tune giant companies and shave pennies off the massive scale. People coming out of them sound like idiots sometimes. "Hey if we do this thing we can increase revenue by 2%!" Great if the company already makes 100 billion, but completely useless if you need to get it from 100k to 1 million. They'll make a spreadsheet for it either way.

To be fair, maybe Harvard or some other elite school is an exception. I don't actually think it is, but I don't often interview Harvard grads to find out what they understand about business. I also don't know enough about "entrepreneurship" degrees to guess whether they're any good.

Law school gives me shivers just thinking about it. I'm actually interested in law, I like it, and I have some non-lawyer experience in it. But going to the expense of law school is a terrible idea for most people. You'll make more money as an insurance agent, software developer, probably as a plumber. But none of those requires an extended education. A friend of mine who was a lawyer actually died before he could pay off his law school debt.

This is the most insightful comment here.

especially the part about gaining 3% vs going from 100k to 1 million.

 

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[WestCoast]

 

[Rabby]

View attachment 38810

If this was really how we chose representatives, all the sociopaths and zealots would change their names to Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaron Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaronson. With however many a's the phone book allows.

 

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[Ronak]

Tough call, time is very valuable, but I'd do it for the intellectual experience, unprecedented networking, and chance to live the student life again in Cambridge...although I'd care far far less about grades this time around. One of my undergrad regrets was focusing too much on academics and not enough on networking and practical experiences

 

[Agent X]

Like others have said, the main value of elite schools is the networking and connections. They are more selective and more expensive, so they will select for smart, and well-connected students (with wealthier parents to donate to the endowment fund).

But like @Fox and @Jon L mentioned that they are getting much more indoctrinating and censoring than the past, so I don't believe they would be worth it. Other schools provide just as good of education if you are wanting to obtain a college degree.

 

[Kid]

Going to school, even elite one, would be like riding the fastlane but in opposite direction.

It would be even worse than doing nothing.

After you'd finish such school you'd have to unlearn everything they told you and only then start learning how business is done in reality.

So its double waste, not mentioning opportunity cost.

 

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[Saad Khan]

Going to school, even elite one, would be like riding the fastlane but in opposite direction.

It would be even worse than doing nothing.

After you'd finish such school you'd have to unlearn everything they told you and only then start learning how business is done in reality.

So its double waste, not mentioning opportunity cost.

The way I see it is the connections that would be useful. Other than that, it's pretty much delaying the harsh reality of the world.

Yeah, not to mention the indoctrination.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

So why not build a big business

Didn't say not to!

 

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[LifeDeathTime]

No chance. Waste of time and zero real experience.
Potential connections but you can meet similar people elsewhere.

 

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[BizyDad]

Theoretically, yes. I would do it.

Practically? It would be tough for me to make the time.

But I believe I could find value in even doing one class per semester at a prestigious university. I think I'd have interesting discussions with people who don't think like me. I also believe I could turn free classes into money making opportunities.

Depending on the courses I take, I may find quality employees, as Raja said. Not all of them command six figure salaries. Perhaps I'd find up and coming investment opportunities. Potential partners that I can mentor. Get introduced to funding sources for my ideas.

There's this myth that those who can do and those who can't teach, but the truth is university professors are often doers as well as teachers. You gotta look beyond the attending student body.

Have someone in your life who is questioning how smart you are? Casually tell a story about that one class at Harvard, and that'll shut that down real quick.

Could being an alumni open some doors with other alumni? I wonder if I could make money on Harvard's alumni forum? Normally I'd say that was an expensive way to build a network, but the question is offering the classes for free. And I only have to take one class to say I am an alumni.

As an active student I can take advantage of all kinds of discounts.

If that isn't enough, through the prestigious alumni association, I can get good discounts on car rentals, computers, travel, cell phones, bank loans, etc. Harvard alumni specifically even have a concierge service for purchasing various things for you.

They freaking put travel packages together so you can take guided trips with small groups of other alumni.

I want to see the pyramids of Egypt with the Harvard educated tour guide. I want to go to Antarctica and talk science with the Harvard scientists.

In other words, for free, I'd be able to get better access to bigger deals on things I buy and use right now and things I dream of doing later.

My current small school alumni association just tries to sell me a credit card and car insurance. Haha.

I'm not at all concerned about them trying to brainwash me. I live in America. We are inundated with brainwash attempts, even here on this forum. I'm surprised that others would bristle at that. I mean really? You free thinkers are worried about being brainwashed?

Quality universities are chock full of opportunities for people with an open mind and the creative eye for problem solving and making connections.

Lastly, if I went to Hahvahd, then I'd have every excuse to say things like "my boy'z wikked smaht" and "how you like dem apples?"

The more I think about it, the better this deal gets. Or maybe it's just late and I need to get some sleep...

 

[maximusharrison]

See title.

Also, swap in whatever [X] elite business school (or even include law school, since lots of powerful people, including entrepreneurs and major investors, seem to have studied law).

Why would you take that opportunity, or why would you decline it?

What might change your decision?

Do these programs unlock anything in your life's journey as a businessman, fastlaner, etc? Or just a waste of time?

The idealistic side of me would probably say yes. It's an opportunity, as many other members have already mentioned, to expand your network. It's also an added "credential" in a way. For most of us, we already know the harsh reality of business: it's unwelcoming and harsh. Titles land you interviews and conversations with certain people.

The realistic side of me would say no. I'd rather known as Founder/Co-Founder/CEO of X company. Rather than Graduate/Alumni of X school. I love education, but certain institutions have a way of monetizing it in the guise of "prestige".

 

[WestCoast]

Yes, absolutely - if I wanted to do the sorts of things that people from Harvard do.

I have a friend who graduated from there. Nicest guy in the world. Started a tech company, took it public - still works all the time. Just a gem of a man.

But, most people I know from Harvard (very few), can't wait to name drop where they went.
The people from those fancy schools, love to talk about their fancy schools. It's really weird.
It's like, the best thing going for them.

They work on wall street, or at consulting firms. Make lots of money, spend lots of money.
I guess that's cool, but, it's the opposite of the life I enjoy now - without a prestigious degree from anywhere.


In the real world, the marginal value of college degrees is declining as more people have them.
Not to mention most people come out of a nice college with zero practical skills.

I'll take a HS graduate hungry to learn, or a Junior College graduate who worked through school - way before an Ivy League anyone.

 

[BizyDad]

His story is a little vague though, he doesn't go into detail on the business(es) with me because I'm just extended family to him, by marriage.

Why don't you send him a note, tell him how you look up to him a little bit and would appreciate an opportunity to pick his brain? Offer to buy him dinner...

I'll take a HS graduate hungry to learn, or a Junior College graduate who worked through school - way before an Ivy League anyone.

What about an ivy leaguer who worked their way through school and is hungry to learn? Why wouldn't you want someone like that over the high schooler or JC kid?

Its interesting ... we're all contemplating a FREE education at perhaps the most prestigious university in the world, and we're turning it down. That tells you something.

Does it say more about the college, or more about the commenters?

It kind of reminds me of all these people who say billionaires shouldn't exist. Our society trains us to hate on the elite and the best, especially by those who aren't part of that group.

 

[Jon L]

Does it say more about the college, or more about the commenters?

It kind of reminds me of all these people who say billionaires shouldn't exist. Our society trains us to hate on the elite and the best, especially by those who aren't part of that group.

I'd say at this point that it says more about the college. The commenters here are successful business people who look at Harvard with disdain.

I do as well. 15 years ago, that was not the case. I used to admire it. I think elites are amazing people.

Between then and now, however, its become a place of indoctrination rather than education. First year students there report that within the first week, they're shoved into the deep end of CRT, which is taught as gospel truth.