The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[PapaGang]

Avoiding the virus is simple. Quit drinking Corona.

 

[Vigilante]

So I am going to state the obvious, mainly for my benefit but we're going to apply simple business strategy to stay calm. We're faced with a new set of circumstances, and I am mindful of the old book "Who Moved My Cheese." People are resistant to change, and I can lump that in with the discussion(s) we have had here about normalcy bias.

A few times over the last few days, I have become overwhelmed within my own thoughts. What about... this? What if .... this... happens. What about that?

A few coping strategies :

• people are refreshing spirituality - and if that is your thing, this is an excellent time to double down. If you "believed" during good times, now is the time to put that "faith" to the test
• exercise. If you are quarantined, you can exercise. If you aren't, get out and get some fresh air. Get moving. Get your adrenaline going. Release some of those stress endorphins. Take a longer walk than you have taken before, and do it again tomorrow.
• Invest in the kids. Really be present for any younger ones you have around. Intentional. Focused. They might be stressed also, but YOU can remedy that simply by meeting their emotional needs. Be there. Invest. Calm. Engage. They may never forget this time.
• Take one block at a time. How do we solve business issues? We focus on the immediate need. We look long term, but then we take action in smaller steps. Methodical steps.
• Slow everything down. It's ok to just BE, today. It's ok to let yourself relax a bit. To let go of the stress.
• Find some new podcasts. Find some new music. Find some new religious streams. What ever. Find some new things of interest.
• Let your life begin to adjust.

I have a vehicle whose lease was up... this week. I just called the bank and said I wasn't going to deal with that for a few months. I wasn't bringing it back, wasn't buying it, wasn't doing anything. That's one thing I am just not dealing with today. Know what the bank said? OK. Problem solved. I will deal with that some other time. BTW the worker from the bank I talked with? Today was her first day working at home. New reality for her, in her job, talking to me.

Amazon sellers in the United States are freaked out because Amazon announced overnight suspension of FBA shipments to Amazon. Know what my reaction is? OK. I will deal with that as it flows. I'll handle it. If I allow myself (like the hundreds of posts on their forum) to get my underwear all tied up in knots about it, I am not problem solving.

My business doesn't stop. Heck, I want to meet with more retail buyers, and now I don't have to fly to see them! I can SAVE MONEY and they would totally understand... they don't want to meet me face to face. So over the next few weeks, I will be changing my business to ZOOM with as many prospective customers as will take my invitation, and I may NEVER go back to the way it was.

My warehouse rent is due at the end of the month. I will deal with that... at the end of the month. There will probably be some forced flexibility there. However, prime example. NOT ON MY LIST TO DEAL WITH TODAY.

I have a family wedding in April. Guess what? NOT ON MY LIST TO DEAL WITH TODAY.

Prioritize like you would ANY business issue. Make this transition clinical. To coin a phrase from Steven Covey(?) put FIRST THINGS FIRST. Big rocks. Work only on the things that matter. Let some other things slow down for a while. Let some not so big priorities sit there.

Clear your head. Focus only on what matters. Turn off the TV news - there's plenty of other people that will fill you on on critical developments. For example, my buddy just messaged me - Florida is shutting bars and BREWERIES at 5PM. Now, I might let myself REACT to that a bit... I need to grab a few brewskis for 30 days coverage. But the news found me. I didn't have to study every late breaking press conference. The things that are important will work their way into your bunker.

Wash your hands. Seriously, were you people not washing your hands before?

This was just my current brain dump, as much to recalibrate where I am spending energy. Hope someone out there in the internet needed it as much as I did.

 

[biophase]

LOL, to all the people that are saying, XXX kills XXXX more people each year, or that the media is overblowing this... Those aren't actually the reasons to worry.

Has your factory in China ever been shut down over the flu? Do people empty out grocery stores because some people in their town catch a cold?

It doesn't matter what YOU actually think of the virus or even if you think it is real. What matters is what 10,000 people in your town do. If your streets are empty and your fridge is bare, you can certainly stay home and play videos games all day. But what happens when you are hungry and there is no food. Then does it really matter what YOU think?

Nobody here is doing anything crazy. Is buying extra food and water really insane? Sure you can laugh at people that are doing it. This is a total mindset thing. There are people that prepare and people that just go through life without planning.

On the business side, it's the same mindset. Where does your supplement company get all those plastic/glass bottles that they put all the private label stuff into? China, of course. The supplement powders might be made here, but the jars and caps come from China. I order my jars/bottles from a USA container company, so you might think, US company, no need to panic. But guess what? They come from China too and they are out of stock now. No ETA for their next shipment to arrive.

But guess what I did? I ordered a years worth of stuff a month ago. I have enough inventory to last until 2021 right now. I might be crazy, or I might be the only one in stock in September. Who knows. But am I going to risk my business on what I THINK about the virus, or am I going to go by what is actually going on.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

And it looks like the partisan "get Trump" crowd has arrived.

If you're going to use this forum to express your Trump Derangement Syndrome, the "it's all Trump's fault!!" narrative, you will be removed from the thread. If you think Trump is 100% to blame and you think you're going to express that here in THIS thread, you are wrong. Take your esteemed opinion over to Reddit where your HuffPost and MotherJones links will be absorbed without question.

We've lasted 50+ pages without it.

 

[Vigilante]

I'd like to give a bit of recognition to someone who usually shys away from the spotlight. There is a forum member who behind the scenes is working to make the global crisis a bit easier for the first responders. In an era where "entrepreneurs" get a bad rap from profiting on the misfortune and/or increased demand for in-demand products, there are some people behind the scenes.

A week or two ago I let it be known that I was searching for medical grade masks to equip an organization who has jump teams that are providing critical machine maintenance to hotspot hospitals in a several state service area. Their teams were out of N95 masks, yet continued working and going straight into hospitals dealing with CoronaVirus patients.

And in typical Fastlane Forum member fashion, a trait unique amongst many INSIDERS at this place in contrast to the rest of the internet (and world, seemingly) a fastlane member stepped up and gave selflessly. Pulling some strings, he arranged for the delivery to me of multiple boxes of N95 masks. And before you ask, he depleted his entire resource to help me provide to this team, FREE OF CHARGE, with the critical protection they needed, just when they needed it. He sent me BOXES of masks, whose retail value has shot through the roof. The same products that are selling for ridiculous multiples, the same products that are impossible to get, the same masks that could have created a crazy profit had he just kept them and sold them... he sent them. In fact, he overnighted them. For free.

I was able to get them into the hands of the jump teams, who will be using them on the front lines. At a minimum, this selfless act kept people from getting sick, and possibly many due to the multiplication effect. At a maximum, we'll never know if he just literally may have saved a life or two or more.

I am not going to OUT him here, as he is the type of guy that doesn't ever ask for the limelight. For those of you who have attended the past few meetups, you might be able to pinpoint who it is but I ask that you not speculate on these pages to maintain his privacy and anonymity. But I know he will see this post, and I know that he already knows he's appreciated with a debt that cannot be repaid.

And that, folks, is what keeps a lot of us connected together through this forum.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

This will be my last post in this thread.

I'll state my peace and ban myself after posting.

Fantastic post. I had just argued that the media was made up of tons of individuals, and your video just illustrated how -- at least in this case -- it could actually be a much smaller group of big businesses driving exactly what is said on their various outlets.

Yikes, the fact that you just learned this right now illustrates my point.

The media (and many big Tech companies like Reddit) are owned by partisan ideologues who run narrative engineering operations. The problem is, most people don't know it. Or they DO know it, but listen to them to confirm their biases.

There's a difference between putting forth an agenda (like the Fastlane Forum's agenda of entrepreneurship ) where it is clearly known VS cleverly distorted and masquerading as *news* to put forth narrative, a prevailing sentiment, and an ideological objective.

Now with news, most of the world has no clue they're being drip-fed bullshit.

Don't forget, we have a media template (verified history) on a pandemic when the swine flu hit during the Obama administration.

Another case in point...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250559851421405186

View: https://twitter.com/SharylAttkisson/status/1250559851421405186


So Facebook uses the CCP as a "fact checking" organization. A person who thinks CRITICALLY (a person the media can't manipulate) will realize that a Wuhan lab worker would NOT be able to dispense the truth, otherwise he'd be killed or gulaged. Of course this doesn't mean the assertion is true, just that the truth cannot be ascertained, and in no way it should be deemed false.

This is narrative engineering for the protection of a communist organization.

Wow, just wow. I'm going to say this as nicely as I can being someone that has gained a lot of value from this forum over the last few years. I can see that people with TDS are not the only ones starting to suffer from a bit of political derangement over this crisis. I'm starting to see views like this expressed from both sides where people are starting to view this virus as a political weapon that has been sent to attack "their side".

Wow, just wow. I never said anything about the origins of virus as a political weapon, or a conspiracy to "get Trump" -- that's what partisans to do to turn an valid argument into a strawman, just what you did.

My commentary was that the virus has been weaponized by the media to serve a varied agenda, from "getting Trump" to the trampling of liberty, to the stripping of civil rights without due process, to mail in voting to the nationalization of industry, to whatever other authoritarian utopia they can dream up.

Narrative engineering.

Look, people love what that Michigan Governor is doing! Twitter says so! And CNN!
And yes, Jeffrey Epstein did commit suicide, case closed!

As they say, never let a crisis go to waste.

I'm actually astounded at the willingness of people (even here) to believe what the television tells them, because Twitter makes the topic "trending", or because some left-wing partisan academicians post a model with 2,000,000 dead by April 30th.

And to be clear, if you asked me my opinion, the virus was an accident, either at a wet-market, or a biolab with no grandiose motives-- the virus' origins has nothing has to do with the elections.

But make no mistake, the virus has been weaponized -- but not biologically, but to serve ideological agendas.

Just so you understand...

Michigan Governor: If she institutes martial law: MEDIA: Awesome! She's such a leader! VP!
President Trump: If he institutes martial law: MEDIA: Tyrant! Dictator! Impeach!

Martial law is martial law.

But the media would have you believe that if X does it, it is OK. But if Y does it, it is bad!

If X throws you in a boxcar, that's good -- if Y does it, it's bad!

As for if that tragedy gets reported by the news? That depends on who is the X or Y .

And to be clear, NO LEADER should do be instituting any kind of martial laws. And if anyone did that, Republican, Libertarian, or Democrat, I'd be standing in line calling him a tyrant.

Another example...

Brett Kav (Y) raped me. MEDIA: Believe all women! Unfit for court! #MeToo!!
Joe Biden (X) raped me. MEDIA: Shit, bury the story and if we can't, Accuser isn't credible!

The narrative isn't dependent on FACTS, or NEWS, but who is the X or the Y and what it means for the agenda.

The media doesn't report, they engineer narratives codependent on X, Y, and the agenda. They look first at the person (define X or Y) and determine if they can use that person to advance their power agenda. Are they in the BIG CLUB? Will they advance our oligarchical and authoritarian interests? If yes, they are praised and focused. If not, they scream bloody murder or hurl pejoratives.

You see, the media is NOT is not serving your needs with facts or truth, they are serving theirs.

And if herding people into boxcars doesn't serve their agenda insofar as the X or Y, they won't report it. Yes, the media is that corrupt and that derelict.

But yea, don't let that stop you from calling me a conspiracy theorist.

And yea, Epstein hung himself while having dirt on 100 of the most powerful people in the world ... when most of the electorate accepted that doozy, I knew the media and the sheep they fed was beyond repair-- and so is this country. Too many, as @Kak says, bootlickers who are ready to believe anything the corporate media wants them to believe.

That said, I'm out.

As I said above, I'm done with this thread and I'll ban myself from it -- my apologies for dipping toes in political topics, but it is hard not to avoid it when clearly this health crisis has been weaponized for those purposes.

Unless I'm roped back into this thread for mod cleaning duties, I'm done with it.

 

[Fox]

Anyone else noticing a reset in dopamine levels/feeling way more gratitude?

Not to sound cheesy but I catch myself really enjoying simple things and just feeling really good. Last night I was thinking how comfy my couch was for like 5 minutes haha.

I know there is a lot wrong right now but there is so much to be happy and grateful about also - we might be all stuck inside but we still live better than 99.99% of people who ever lived.

I think the last year before this I had been kinda rushing around and not really taking in a lot of stuff. Slowing down and having to focus on the day to day has been really helpful and enjoyable. I have been sleeping some of my best sleeps ever also.

I'd be interested to see if anyone else is feeling similar.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Point of Information:

In times like these when information is unknown, sketchy, unverifiable, and a lot of speculation, all you can do is FACTUALLY OBSERVE what is happening, and use that to make decisions.

This is why I prepped 4 weeks ago. This is why I stocked up on ammo and got 3 more weapons. This is why I was ready before the media started addressing it.

But here are the facts:

First: China's reaction to this virus was unimaginable, like straight out of an apocalyptic movie. Lock downs, full hazmat gear, quarantines, medical shanty towns ... THAT IS A FACT. From that fact, you can DEDUCE that they know the origin, threat, and likely epidemiology that his virus poses.

Second.

Trillions of dollars are at stake.

Major, billion/trillion dollar industries have gone on hiatus.

You simply don't do that for a flu. For a minor threat. Not when you stand to lose billions. To put it medically, industry knows that this can destroy the patient (the worldwide economy) if they don't address it, so they've decided to amputate a leg (a few months of industry) in order to stave it off.

Again, in life, if you really want to gauge the severity of something (or lack of severity) all you need to do is follow the money. Money is telegraphing that this is BIG, from the markets, to the shutdowns.

I don't care about pro sports -- but it was a big indicator, another datapoint to analyze. And it also made it REAL for the generally uninformed.

I hope the money flow is wrong and that yes, this is a nothing burger. The world's countermeasures perhaps can make that more likely. I hold hope as it seems to be a worldwide effort.

So who here has changed their daily life so far?

I stopped going to the gym 4 weeks ago. I've gained 6 pounds. I've never done well with the flu, this thing I don't want to get.

 

[Bekit]

Here's my observation, as someone who does not consume mainstream media.

I sense that people have real fear about this, but I can't tell if that fear is justified or just something manufactured by skillful fearmongers.

The media has really heightened and honed their ability to breed real fear of diseases over the past few years.

Fear is naturally contagious, but there will always be those people who shrug it off and say, "Meh, whatever. It's not going to be as bad as they're trying to get you to think."

I'm one of those people. But it seems that we have gotten thinned out by the media's increasing ability to convince a huge number of people that it WILL be as bad or worse than we think.

I remember discussing Ebola a few years back with a co-worker who was genuinely terrified of Ebola. His attitude was the same as the one in this thread title: "Is Ebola going to kill us all?" I realized then, "Wow, people actually believe this!" This guy was not unstable or just a wuss. He was a manly dude, earning very high wages, well liked, extremely good looking, and overall someone who was enjoying life and fun to be around.

I remember SARS being a thing. I went to China in January of 2004, and lots of people were still wearing masks. I've noticed periodically the contrast between how EVERYONE in China seemed to be adopting mask wearing as a normal thing, and how very few people here do so. It seems to me that China has been MORE successful at breeding that fear population-wide, but we are catching up.

I think this fear becomes easier and easier to breed because every successive event taps into the fear that was already aroused in the last round and just layers on top of it. So for instance, all the fear that built up in my coworker who was afraid of Ebola will probably revive in full force, and now coronavirus will just build on that.

Is it possible to experience a worldwide pandemic? Yeah.

Is it likely that this is it? I don't think so.

Will it affect some people? Yes. Will it be heartbreaking for them? Yes.

But car accidents affect people every day, and we're not terrified to drive our cars. In fact, we tend to think, "It won't happen to me."

Car accidents cause about 40,000 deaths per year in the US [source]. Worldwide, there are an estimated 1.24 million car accident deaths per year [source].

I can see us freaking out and feeling like "it might affect me" if the numbers approach car accident numbers.

I can see us progressing to think, "it might kill us all" if the numbers rise to double or triple that.

Until the death toll for this comes closer to car accident numbers, though, I think it's all just a bunch of hype and manipulation.

 

[Kak]

On a lighter note... Today is my 4th year wedding aniversary...

The plan, amidst this coronavirus shit show, is to give my wife an anniversary she can remember.

This evening it is take out from the restaurant where we first met. I have a card table, two chairs, table cloth and a candle. We will be eating in the empty parking lot. Next to my old suburban because this crap won't fit in the Mercedes.

I can't remember what we did last year... But we won't forget this one.

 

[GIlman]

No. People on this forum are just completely misunderstanding what happened with these models.
View attachment 32596
The first projections (red) were from the Imperial college estimating 2.1 millions deaths. The new ones (green) are from the IMHE. They're two completely difference calculations and due to knowledge gaps, people think they were trying to calculate the same things.

I am 100000000% sure of this. I'm a professional statistician. A lot of very smart people pay me a real lot of money to understand this stuff.

I've explained this like 6 times, and it's getting annoying having to type it over and over. The initial projections were "if we do nothing, 2.1m people will likely die" projections. Read that again. They are, and always have been "business as usual" calculations. They were based on the typical R0 (viral transmission) rates of the virus.

The viral transmission rates change as people socially distance, wear masks, and do other things specifically designed to slow the transmission rate.

This changes the rates of transmission you have to plug into the prediction model. The second model accounted for these new rates.

Let's say that teenagers are sticking their dicks into electrical outlets. Then a report comes out that says "Scientists say that if teenagers keep sticking their dicks into electrical outlets, 80% of them won't have dicks no mo." All the teenagers see the reports and say "oh shit bro, we should probably stop sticking our dicks into electrical outlets!".. boom... 6 months later, they all have their dicks!

This is called a self defeating prophecy. The prophecy itself changes people's actions in a way that makes the prophecy no longer true.

Self-defeating prophecy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A self-defeating prophecy (self-destroying or self-denying in some sources) is the complementary opposite of a self-fulfilling prophecy; a prediction that prevents what it predicts from happening. This is also known as the prophet's dilemma.

A self-defeating prophecy can be the result of rebellion to the prediction. If the audience of a prediction has an interest in seeing it falsified, and its fulfillment depends on their actions or inaction, their actions upon hearing it will make the prediction less plausible. If a prediction is made with this outcome specifically in mind, it is commonly referred to as reverse psychology or warning. Also, when working to make a premonition come true, one can inadvertently change the circumstances so much that the prophecy cannot come true.

But people on this forum are like "wait... none of the teenagers lost their dicks! the scientists were wrong!!" and it makes me wish I had some hair to pull.

This is how the transmission rate has changed over time:

View attachment 32581

The original models that predicted 2.1 million were based off the normal rate of transmission. They are based off the assumption that no one takes action. The new IMHE models that predict ~67K were based off the new rates of transmission, including social distancing measures.

These are the dates (in red) that each country started to go on lockdown.

View attachment 32592


View attachment 32593

View attachment 32594

In every case when countried iposed lockdowns, within 5 days the New Cases went down. is that a coincidence?

I mean saying the models were wrong is complete gobildy gook. He explained it himself:

View attachment 32595

I mean you don't even need models. It doesn't take a PhD in statistics to understand that a virus that doubles every 2-4 days is going to infect millions and millions if left unchecked.

Chris, I think for myself and a lot of others here, the question isn’t about whether we bend the curve or if we have a short term effect. The questions is what the long term game plan is and what difference in the disease we have really achieved long term even though we have bent the curve in the short term. Or at least if that’s not other people’s question, those are my questions.

Does it really matter if we modify the shape of the curve, if the end result is the same # infected, it just takes a longer period for that to happen.

I believe current policy HAS changed the shape of the curve, we have slowed down the disease spread, we have temporarily delayed people from dying, but we have not stopped it and there is no indication we will.

If slowing it down meant preserving the lives in the long run, many people would be on board. This was initially believed to be true, because the hospitals and ventilator supply were going to be exhausted, so an excess # of people were going to die unnecessarily due to supply constraints.

But, some things have come to light that we’re not known before.

1) the death rate when people are put on ventilators is extraordinarily high anyway, current research out of New York in a large populations says 88%. So ventilator shortage or not, the effect of ventilator supply on death is actually not likely a big factor to begin with. In the beginning myself (and likely everyone) believed that a ventilator was the difference between life and death in a very large # of patients - there is now strong evidence this is not true.

2) there is much more concrete proof that the absolute death rate is much lower than the CFR, since CFR only considers those with positive covid PCR test. The CFR we have range from 3.5-10% of people infected die. Actual mortality rate based on serological antibody testing is suggesting 0.3-0.8%. Not to minimize that, it’s still serious and significantly greater than flu, but it is greater than an order of magnitude less than initially thought.

3) It’s become apparent that there is NO real long term game plan. I’ve been asking the question (as I assume many others have) about what happens after the quarantine, how do you end it and move back towards productive life. As you alluded to, some state’s are opening up and you are betting the numbers of infections start to rise, actually I fully expect that to happen. So here is the question I have for you (@Chris) once the curve is flattened how do you maintain that effect? I realize testing and contact tracing can be the answer on a small scale, but the cat is so so far out of the bag right now that, that we would have to undergo extensive extensive punitive quarantine to try and put that cat back in the bag - which is uncertain and not likely not to work anyway since it’s nearly impossible in the US (as opposed to China) to have a strict lockdown of human movement. So you can flatten the curve, but then what??

4) A vaccine could very easily be many years away. For a completely new pathogen, usually it takes 5-10 years to develop, the majority of that time is spent testing for safety and effectiveness. There is no real way to rush that. So in my opinion a vaccine in 1-1.5 years is a gamble. Would I personally take one rushed to market so quickly, NO! The statistical risk of me dying from COVID is not great enough for me to take an experimental treatment, which in all fairness at the 1 year mark of development the vaccine can not be anything more than experimental, it simply and logistically impossible.

5) We have built hundreds of thousands of hospital beds, there is going to be no person that cannot get oxygen and supportive care if they need it. This is the group that can and will survive if they get sick enough. If they progress to needing ventilation then their outlook has shifted and they are almost certain to not survive. But that initial basic supportive care is critical to helping people that are able to turn the corner and return to health.

6) Yes there are complications from the disease affecting many age groups, many of these complications related to blood clotting. Yes these suck. But the fundamental question still remains. Does flattening the curve do anything more than temporarily delay the total # infected? Delaying the infection will not change the prognosis of those infected.

So it gets back to the main assertion: It appears that about the same # of people will ultimately be infected in the medium to longer term, shutdown or not - you can reshape the curve but can you change the area under the curve? It appears that if you get sick and need a ventilator that your odds of survival are slim, ventilator availability or not. It appears that we will not have a shortage of hospital beds, especially with the multi billion expansion of capacity we have undertaken. It appears that there is no real long term game plan that is realistic or safe (e.g. vaccine) in the short term to prevent large #’s from getting infected in the first place. Lastly, it appears to many, that many in the government are using this crisis as cover to pass horrible laws or enact horrible executive orders that violate people’s rights and will do long term irreparable damage to liberty and the economy.

Given all of these things, for me personally (and likely many others), the utility of flattening the curve has been lost, none of the initially valid reasons for flattening it exist today, and so continued flattening has no long term useful purpose.

 

[Walter Hay]

This thread would be great starting point for a PHD thesis on human behavior to a real or perceived danger.

We have every response on a very wide spectrum.

• Denial
• Boredom
• It hasn't affected me or my family so it's not real
• Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story
• Wild guesses
• Uneducated assumptions
• The voice of reason
• Unjustifiable speculation
• The Russian roulette approach suits me
• Blind faith in statistics (There are lies, damn lies and statistics.)
• Blind faith in government disclosures
• It's on YouTube so it must be a fact
• Someone said... So it's a fact
• I'll be OK
• Only X,Y or Z types will catch it
• I'm not in a high risk category so why worry
• It's a conspiracy
• It hasn't turned up in my locality, so why should I worry

Walter

 

[Envision]

This is your thread reminder to take a break from this thread, social media, and the news.

Its easy to get worked up and lose control of your thoughts when all you do is feed your mind this information.

Go read a book, play with your pets, hangout with your family, FaceTime old friends, work on an idea.

This will all come to pass

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Just because you are hunky dory about living on a farm, doesn’t mean that’s ok for everyone else.

Just because you're OK with millions of folks dying over a few % of GDP, doesn't mean that's OK for everyone else.

See how that works?

You've been removed from this thread for 1 week.

We understand your position, you've made it clear many, many times.

Maybe one week for now, it will change.

 

[Kak]

Another observation as a subject of the People's States of Equality and Fairness.

There has been a complete and utter lack of leadership.

The county executives and mayors defer to governors.

The governors defer to county executives, mayors and the president.

The president defers to experts, and governors.

The "experts" lie about how much they understand this and ultimately say the politicos didn't listen no matter what happens.

NO one wants to accept responsibility for their action. THIS IS ATLAS SHRUGGED. Obfuscating the "blame" as if the blame is the problem at hand. It isn't. We have as much unemployment as the great depression. We have people scared to leave their homes. We have a roiled economy that is in a state of confusion. Uncertainty ABOUNDS.

Donald Trump ran on a platform of not being a politician. No more business as usual, he said. To those of you cheering for his response to this, you are idiots. He is more of a politician than most politicians at this point.

He has shown the same lack of leadership you would have expected from a privileged, inexperienced, douche like Beto O'Rourke. He dodges responsibility every chance he gets. He flat out blames everyone else for the decisions he makes. HE IS A BILLIONAIRE BUSINESSMAN AND THE PRESIDENT. At some point he lost his way. A leader surrounds himself with advisors, not to blame them when things go wrong, but to help him see the full picture and boldy decide the course of action and to stand by the decision.

Sunk cost is something a leader will eat. If things don't go as planned, the responsibility lies SOLELY with the leader. They should address the nation with the cards on the table. They should be clear with what to expect. They should be HONEST and flexible as new information becomes available.

I know a lot of people have hopped on their political party bandwagon. The Trump lovers will call me a liberal now. That's OK. They can keep licking daddy Trump's oxfords. The democrats will cheer for this post until they read: They are hypocrites because Trump is almost everything they could have hoped they could have in an authoritarian communist. Both parties think government is the answer to all of our hopes and desires. Both parties are dead wrong.

Now I have alienated 2/3 of the forum. I expect minimal likes on this post, but I don't care. Unlike our president, I will take the unpopular stance. Time and time again. I will stand by it. I will call out what I see.

 

[SEBASTlAN]

Great time to sell some masks.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Be honest.. how many ya'll suckin Big Macs while you worry about death by Coronavirus?

 

[Vigilante]

This forum and this thread has been the best source of consolidated news anywhere on this subject. In my opinion this is an interesting new chapter for this forum. Absent of a few dumbasses the give and take has been solid.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

This is going to be the biggest nothing burger in the history of the world

Has it ever occurred to you that CV might become a "nothing burger" because of the world's swift action? Social distancing? Quarantines? Putting the issue at the forefront of the world psyche? There has been a massive industrial and scientific mobilization, there's been radical social disruption, and worldwide public awareness is at a peak-- you will NEVER quantify how these measures could have turned a huge problem into a smaller one.

In the end, these drastic measures -- the very ones you impugn -- might be the ones that allow you to gloat about your perceived version of the truth.

In other words, because we don't have insight into the OUTCOMES of doing nothing, business-as-usual (the kind of non-response you advocate) you will NEVER be able to prove yourself right, something I know you very much want.

 

[Vigilante]

To be clear. President Trump hasn't shut down a single business.

The Governors did.

We’re seeing the most draconian measures enforced at all levels of government that we've ever seen in our lifetimes, and yet rather than being alarmed by the things going on, so many of you applaud.

People are being arrested for spending too much time outside, and you applaud. Pastors are being arrested for daring to hold church services, and you applaud. A child's birthday party is raided by police, and you applaud.

A young woman is ticketed for going on a leisurely drive alone because it's deemed "non-essential travel", and you applaud.

A parade of school teachers and administrators who wanted to drive through neighborhoods and wave at children is busted up by cops because they were "nonessential," and you applaud.

A lone paddleboarder in the ocean on a beach without any other people around is arrested because he's violating quarantine orders, and you applaud.

People are being denied life-saving medical treatments because they're not a priority right now (not "essential" as deemed by the government) as the entirety of our medical system is focused on one thing, and you applaud.

Businesses are beings forcibly closed and padlocked and owners arrested for refusing to shut down, and you applaud.

Dairy farmers (and soon, other farmers) are being incentivized to stop dairy farming and to sell their herds, and you don't seem to understand the implications.

You're being told to use hotlines and online forms provided by your local governments to report your neighbors who don't obey, and you comply.

You scold people day after day for not obeying government edicts, and if any of us dare to question what's happening, you lecture about how we're a danger to society and we just don't care about people dying.

You've somehow managed to convince yourselves that the people whose lives are affected by a virus are MUCH more important than the people whose lives are being destroyed (and in many cases, leading to death) by the effects of a worldwide economic shutdown and impending worldwide depression the likes of which no one has ever seen before.

At what point will you start QUESTIONING what's going on? How far does the government have to push before you're jolted awake from your slumber?

How far are you willing to go with this?

If they told you to load your families onto train cars so that you could be taken to Virus Protection Facilities for your own safety, would you do it?

YES. Yes, you would. That much has become painfully obvious to me. And the whole time, you'd be shaking your finger and yelling at those of us who refused, accusing us of being "a danger to society" and "not caring if people die."
But they don't have to load you onto train cars and take you to Virus Protection Facilities or force you to comply, because you do that voluntarily. They control your mind. They control you through fear. They control you by convincing you that the world is a scary dangerous place, but they're here to protect you, care for you, and keep you safe, just as long as you OBEY.

They know that as long as you're locked inside your comfortable home with Netflix, Hulu, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and a cell phone while dangling a $1200 check in front of you like a carrot on a stick, you'll comply. No force is necessary for the majority of the herd.

YOU ARE IMPRISONED, willingly, and you're too blind to see it.

By Mark Levin

 

[biophase]

July or August?!

Just let the 0.6% die and end containment honestly. That’s what we do with the flu. This is NOT WORTH the economic cost.

Look at what UK is doing. I think we are WAY over reacting here.

I guess we will see which way was better in hindsight.

But I'm ok with your solution, as long as the 0.6% is from your friends and family. See how f*cked up that sounds. It's ok as long as it doesn't affect you. That's basically what you are saying because you are only worried about your business and your money.

 

[Andy Black]

Meanwhile, here in Ireland, I nipped to the shops to get some fruit, veg, and ice-cream.

There’s something to be said for living on a island with a population of 6 million, where there’s only two TV channels people tune in for the news, and where the government has been continually stressing the seriousness of the situation but telling people the supply chains are uninterrupted and shelves will be replenished.

Below are photos from inside one of two Aldi stores in our town of about 22k people at 3pm this Thursday the 19th of March 2020.

Schools, colleges, and childcare centres closed last Thursday. Pubs and restaurants closed on Monday.

We’re currently at 366 confirmed cases in Ireland, with 15,000 expected by the end of March.

Hospitals are ramping up. 24k care workers and medical staff have responded to a national call for help in the past three days.

30,000 test kits were due into the country today.

The national sports stadium has been turned into a drive through test centre.

The lab doing the actual tests has gone from 30 tests a day two weeks ago to 900 a day and is nearing capacity.

If rumours are to believed the army is setting up emergency hospitals in various barracks.

We’re not in full lockdown yet, but the head of government’s St Patrick Day address emphasised that this was the calm before the storm. It’s worth listening to that address. I think Leo did a great job.

I know we’ve a long way to go but I’m fierce proud of the way this country has been dealing with this emergency so far.





Oh, and our 7 year old gave me his shopping list when I got back. Bless.




@Fox ... I know you’re worried about your family back in Ireland. I hope this helps allay some of your fears.

 

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[million$$$smile]

I've noticed ever since this pandemic became more apparent around the world and anxiety has risen, we all have seemed to devolve into becoming more critical toward each other.

Even on this forum.

Sad.

This is a great forum but I have purposely relieved myself from posting as it seems that even here it escalates to the point of becoming obstructive to the greater good.

We at least in spirit for the most part were trying to help one another.
But I'm not sure anymore.

A Great Teacher once said, "Let him that has no sin, cast the first stone"

The attitude here sometimes depresses me more than it inspires me. We all read more into the words written here and think we all know everything about that person and yet the truth be known, we all for the most part know very little of each other. Even if we've sat in a room together for a few days in a year, we really only know that limited perception.

The internet has become our new form of public lynching.

Because I can.

I have got to deliberately remove myself from this forum for a bit of time. I don't need a ringside seat in a Roman Colosseum.

I've got work to do and plans to prepare for.

Perhaps when we all get back to work, some form of commonality will prevail on this forum.

Hopefully, this isn't the new norm.

 

[JAJT]

This thread would be great starting point for a PHD thesis on human behavior to a real or perceived danger.

One of my favorite posts in this thread.

I almost feel like I'm addicted to this thread just to see what people will post next. Is it news? A conspiracy? Unfounded claim? Interesting anecdote? Mathematical extrapolation?

It's almost like a soap opera that I just can't stop watching.

 

[MTEE1985]

• If you are quarantined, you can exercise. If you aren't, get out and get some fresh air. Get moving. Get your adrenaline going. Release some of those stress endorphins. Take a longer walk than you have taken before, and do it again tomorrow.
• Invest in the kids. Really be present for any younger ones you have around. Intentional. Focused. They might be stressed also, but YOU can remedy that simply by meeting their emotional needs. Be there. Invest. Calm. Engage.

Amen brother. We are combining the 2 on a daily basis.



Edit: Made it to the top!

 

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[MTF]

Ah no. These are dark days.

Without any context these numbers are tragic (and of course every death is). But world is filled with death and suffering every day; we just don't focus on it obsessively unless it's a global crisis and media reports it 24/7 (or much more painfully, until a loved one dies). Again, I need to emphasize it strongly that I'm not downplaying any of the deaths, but trying to offer a different, Stoic-influenced perspective that might help some people process what's going on.

Resignation and gloom won't help us right now. We can help others stay sane during the crisis through keeping calm, humor, hope, asking constructive questions and having constructive discussions (I love @GIlman's contributions in this thread), sharing good news (bad news equals high stress equals disrupted immune system - all the fear mongering of media can make even more people die), and reframing the current situation.

On the same page (worldometers.info) you can learn that while over 43,000 people died from coronavirus roughly from the beginning of this year (probably more given China's lies), there were over 14,707,000 deaths in total (so official coronavirus casualties are 0.29% of that number). Before coronavirus, nobody was depressed knowing that so many people were dying every day. We all just carried on with our lives, knowing full well that people were dying all around us but choosing not to dwell on it (the fact that most of the deaths didn't make any headlines helped).

Out of 14,707,000 deaths this year so far, there are so many sad stories, many of which are never reported just because they happened in poor countries that didn't get a hashtag (it's extremely sad, but that's what it often is - a tragedy in, say, Australia, like the recent bushfires nobody cares about anymore, is known globally while a much more disastrous situation in, say, Central African Republic, isn't even mentioned anywhere).

The uncomfortable reality is that people living in developed countries rarely, if ever, consider how much death and suffering happens all around the world. Until it happens to us, we don't care. Which is understandable - we wouldn't be able to live if we constantly pondered on this sad reality.

All the following data comes from worldometers.info:

• In the last FIVE DAYS, more people died of HUNGER than coronavirus. The worst thing about it is that while people are dying of hunger, there are millions of people around the world carrying dozens or hundreds of excess pounds. None of those deaths make headlines because they rarely happen in rich countries.
• FIVE TIMES more people died this year from water-related diseases than coronavirus. Another completely preventable death limited mostly to poor countries while rich countries are wasting obscene amounts of water.
• almost THREE TIMES more people died this year from seasonal flu than coronavirus. But it's just the normal flu so who cares, right? It doesn't make headlines, either, yet it's just as tragic.
• almost TWO TIMES more mothers died during birth this year than people died from coronavirus. Again, most common in poor countries, virtually none of those tragic deaths are reported.
• over SIX TIMES more people committed suicide this year than people died from coronavirus. Another extremely sad and often preventable death that rarely gets reported.

Again, to emphasize, I'm obviously not attacking you, Andy (I hope it's clear I have TONS of respect for you). Just wanted to put the current situation in context because all I can see everywhere is doom and gloom constantly being heightened by social media, traditional media, and doomsday preppers. We don't need that; it's not constructive. We need to focus on solutions or ways to stay sane and healthy until it's over.

Again, not trying to downplay any deaths and tragedies (I DO KNOW first-hand that it's no consolation at all for a person who lost their loved one - this is only a perspective for those of us who are unscathed), but we wouldn't even notice a 0.3% rise in deaths this year if they happened in, say, Myanmar (how many people know that THREE TIMES more people died in the aftermath of 2008 Cyclone Nargis in Myanmar?).

 

[Kak]

On a lighter note... Today is my 4th year wedding aniversary...

The plan, amidst this coronavirus shit show, is to give my wife an anniversary she can remember.

This evening it is take out from the restaurant where we first met. I have a card table, two chairs, table cloth and a candle. We will be eating in the empty parking lot. Next to my old suburban because this crap won't fit in the Mercedes.

I can't remember what we did last year... But we won't forget this one.

The black rectangle strikes again.

I gave them a call about their take-out hours. I have removed the name of the place because the last thing I want to do is get them in any kind of trouble... Which sucks, because they deserve high praise not shaming from assholes.

I explained that it is our anniversary and not only did we meet there, but we also got engaged there. I asked if we could eat our take out order at one of their patio tables in the back near the lake. Not only did he say that is just fine, he is going to put down the table cloth and give us 50% off of a bottle of wine.

Private dining, courtesy of coronavirus. Just like the forum dinner with Glen Stearns. You have not because you ask not.

 

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[James Klymus]

The only cure for coronavirus is some limes.

I prefer modelovirus though, if im honest.

But in all seriousness, the media is sensationalizing things like usual. 2 Weeks ago we were on the brink of world war 3, now the next plague is upon us.

Also, compared to 100 years ago, we've come a long way with our understanding of viruses and treatment. In people with healthy immune systems, it is rarely fatal. The people who have died were already in poor health.

What is the coronavirus and how worried should we be?

What are the symptoms caused by the China virus and at what point should you go to the doctor?

www.theguardian.com

The jokes and memes I've seen going around show how "concerned" people actually are about this.

Ironically I have a bit of a stuffy nose and sore throat as I type this, so it was nice knowing you guys.

 

[Kak]

Wow, just wow. I'm going to say this as nicely as I can being someone that has gained a lot of value from this forum over the last few years. I can see that people with TDS are not the only ones starting to suffer from a bit of political derangement over this crisis. I'm starting to see views like this expressed from both sides where people are starting to view this virus as a political weapon that has been sent to attack "their side". I know we are in an election year, but this is not a red vs blue issue imo. I hope people can focus on encouraging their leaders to remain united and do what is right for the health and economic wellbeing of the public and we can get this under control. After that happens would be the best time to go back to worrying about the election imo. I don't think whoever released this virus in China (accidentally or otherwise) cared much whether a D or R wins the next election in the USA.

The only ones making this about political party in this thread are you liberals. You simultaneously bitch about the thread getting political while voicing your political view. "Encouraging our leaders." LOL

Republicans? Democrats? They are BOTH already socialist. They BOTH suck. The people sticking up for socialistic policy? They SUCK. The people waving Trump flags? They SUCK.

America was founded on the principle of rugged individualism... That one could better take care of their own affairs than leaving it to government. Neither side embodies that.

Don’t make this about Republican and Democrat. It isn’t. It is “the government will take care of me” vs “I will take care of me.”

 

[Kak]