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Why we aren't successful and what to do about it - The TURBO MINDSET thread

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Hello Brother,

I intended to call you a 'Fastlaner' (instead of Brother) but I am guessing most of us are 'slowlaners' here, which is good.

I dedicate this thread to everyone who will spare 5 mins to read it, but mostly to us, sidewalkers/slowlaners. There is nothing bad in being a sidewalker or slowlaner... As in there is nothing bad in being a human!

I feel energised, REALLY ENERGISED today, first time since 15 years. 15!!

I have been depressed for the last 15 years, I think. I hid it somewhere inside, but it had great influence on me. I lost touch with it... but it didn't with me. Ok to the point...

Why aren't we successful? (with the exactly exact steps how to fix it at the end of the post)

I am not going to write a copy for 'twenty hours' to deceive you into reading it, and not giving you the answer. Here it is:

It's not talent, it's not your face, it's not your parents (ok they are affecting you a lot)... Wait. Unfortunately our parents are responsible for shaping our mindsets the most, next to the mass educational brainwash.... Nevertheless...

The answer is:

mindset

Mindset!

MINDSET!!!!!

Mindset?

MINDSET MF (as in motherfcker - can I swear or is it only reserved for the 'better' people on the forum?)

Ok one more time

MINDSET

I am reading the book by Carol Dweck on mindset and it has helped me a lot on recently and on my path to happiness... I don't want to write about it because it's 7$ on amazon so go get it if you want to change your life... Ok buying a book will definitely change the life of whoever owns amazon. Won't change yours in an instant. You need to put work in it...

Anyway.

Ok ok my story? It's important. My background.

(I don't buy this copy anymore 'How I went from 0 to 1 Trillion $ in two years from living in a box to a villa on Mars and Moon...")

I have been naive... back to the main story

You can call me...

Bill Clinton

I was one of the most talented kids in my country. I was training track and field in primary school - I loved it, and I had a huge talent, one of the biggest, my coach told me I was wwaaaay better than the guy that was our idol and his biggest achievement was 5th place in the world championships.

But well long story short I stopped, then I played volleyball (with 6ft, not too tall) and also loved it, put a lot of effort there, wasn't as good as at track and field, beacuse of my height, but nevertheless it doesn't define anything...

I stopped because of my back pain (it was 14 years ago and only now I started working on my back in a correct way, after going to several physios etc etc etc)...

My professional career - I was an 'accountant' and was on a way to be a CFO of a public listed company at the age of 29-31. Is it so so? or ok? or bad? or what?

But I stopped. I stopped every time I hit bigger obstacles. The older I got the faster I was to give up.

I signed up for @Fox 's web design course in the early 2017. With cold calling I didn't even properly start and put proper effort. One of the things that made me work on my mindset... compare this to the rest of the achievements I mentioned above. Had I put half the effort that I did into previous 'passions', I would have been.... nevertheless I am on my way to turn it around.

Nonetheless, I couldn't admit that I was a failure. Not to myself, so wouldn't even think about talking to other people.... This was how fragile we can be.......

OK THE STEPS ALREADY FFS (for f*ck sake):

the order here is not important, ok so I will play a mind trick on us:

1. Start writing daily, DAILY, NOT WEEKLY, NOT WHEN YOU WANT TO, daily, things that you are grateful for today - or made you happy. Even one sentence. And can be 'stupid' stuff like e.g. I am grateful for the ice cream in store. It makes me fat but it feels so good. Whatever works for you.

1. James Clear and his free ebook on habits. Download it and read it. Action on it. So read it once. First time just scan it. Then second time read it. Then third time with taking notes and how you will apply this knowledge - btw this is the system you can use to other books (aside of Harry Potter type of books...)

1. Maybe the single most important point here. Find a support group, like AA, support people, or at least one person. This person mustn't judge you. Just listen you saying that your imperfections are ok. From a book No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover - check out the book and there are simple actions you can take, but really powerful. If you don't have a good mindset, you most probably aren't ok with yourself on a deep unconscious level and we need to 'fix' this. It's ok to be miserable, depressed, smelly;), ugly, handsome... 'The success and the bitches' will come later, ok, trust me ;)

1. This forum is actually the best place on the internet. I joined in 2011 and have been lurking, frequenting it since then but not really actively... Wait, what? 2011? You are .... I don't know... It doesn't matter how long it takes or who you are. "It doesn't matter who we are. What matters is our plan".

but

this forum is also the worst!

1. The fastlaneforum doesn't provide this type of support we require in our fragile state. Maybe not to all of us. Everyone can come and 'shit' on your thread. It is great, still. But it's only a part of the puzzle. Great one. Big one.


Ok I am tired.... I hope you find some useful information here. It's just a summary. It sometimes takes days/weeks/ or in my case, years (2011 above guys says something).

One of my favourite people, the musician Steve Vai once said, "A true artist never gives up".

I Wish You Never To Give Up.


PS As usual I call every lurker to come out and say something, because it's important to start participating.

PS2 Big thanks to @Longinus because he is the inspiration for this thread and a lot of things that is going on in my life now. I love you Man!

PS3 OK enough with the editing, POST IT ALREADY, people are waiting.... or maybe not... who knows

Continued below....
 

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Well, I have some fuel in me to continue today. But I think it's really important. MINDSET.

After writing and reading what I have written above, there are some gaps.

Why MINDSET? Why not talent, upbringing, 'luck', what else....

TALENT

Talent say you - and me - look Nate Robinson - 1.75m tall NBA player. Check mate! Next question.

Ok I won't get out of the talent so easily. I had an argument about it. Discussion, not argument. Whatever.

Nate Robinson didn't win the slam dunk contest by accident. He wasn't just walking by the sports hall, heard the noise, looked inside and said "uu a slam dunk contest, maybe I should give it a try?" Tadam!

1.75m guy won the slum dunk contest. What about Muggsy Bogues - 1.6m, Spud Webb - 1.7m. Check mate again my friend, and myself!

Ok ok Bill Clinton (remember, this is my name) but they were talented in different ways... yeah... they were talented in different ways to beat 2m guys in basketball, that trained for several years. If talent is working hard for several year then yes, they were talented.

There is no talent. Only hard work! For the most of us. Of course there are guys that are 'born' with it. But they are one in a billion. On the other hand you don't hear about guys that had this one in a billion talent but didn't make it to the finish lane.

This is why MINDSET is so important. Not to buy into this shit with talent.

Salesmen are born, not made

This is one of the single most harmful phrase you can encounter. And if you believe in it, you have already lost. At least for a second.

MJ wrote in his book (if I remember correctly) that he didn't have talent to become famous etc etc. Look at this limiting belief. On the other hand thank you for it MJ. Because you would have become another actor, instead of setting up this place and writing the book! Thank you!

UPBRINGING
Or conditioning. It starts with parents and this is the most influencing factor, because it takes place when we are shaping our minds. I am not blaming parents, I am explaining. Because I feel we need to explain it.

On the other hand please blame them. Blame helps. Depression helps. The feelings we feel help with being better. Keep in touch with them. Especially men are taught to 'toughen up', 'don't cry' etc etc ...

I will cry and what are you going to do! REAL MEN AREN'T AFRAID OF DOING ANYTHING AND FEELING BAD ABOUT IT.

REAL MEN CRY, HUG, WEAR STUPID THINGS, DO WHATEVER THEY WANT, BECAUSE IT'S OK TO BE A MAN
(sorry ladies for neglecting you here a bit, but no one says you are bad because you cry, you actually should cry).

Yes, our parents have great influence over how we feel and think, so to amend ourselves, we need to go back to these feelings and situations, with our parents, that shaped us, that made us feel the way we feel in certain situations.

Still, they shape our ... you know that already? MINDSET. Correct. They shape our mindset. They cannot shape our talents or predisposed, because they cannot control our DNA. They can mold our brains. And they do.

LUCK

Ok the luck stuff is a bit tricky. I am going to start with Arnold Schwarzenegger's quote:

"If you weren't born in Africa, aren't five years old, working in a diamond mine, with an AK47 pointed at you, then you can consider yourself lucky" - no excuses after that... It's a paraphrase but you get the point.

We don't control the DNA we were given. We don't control our parents we were given. Hell, we sometimes have problems with controlling our bowel movements (diarrhoea - I know I am horrible with this connotation).

So what do we control REALLYYYYYY REALLLLYYY?????

hmm....

....

MINDSET

Correct!

We control 'the electrical impulses interpreted by our brains'... Not even that. We are so hopeless and helpless as people! Ha! We don't even control the electrical currents going through our bodies... or do we?

Ok we can affect them by healthy dieting, exercising, smoking, drinking booze, living healthy vs unhealthy...

What we really control is the interpretation of the events that occur next to us and happen to us or we are aware of them.

Read it again, because I have just given us my own definition of MINDSET. It's is the way you interpret the events that affect you in any way.

This is why we need to nurture our MINDSET (by nurturing our brains, bodies, our surroundings, etc etc etc whatever there is)...

To be continued.... I will try to add more personal note to these thought, so you don't think I am inventing this and just writing out of thin air stuff, that I haven't experienced or encountered...
 
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I promised you some evidence of my failures so you can be a bit more sure that I am not making it all up.

It's not as easy as it may sound. Of course these thoughts and experiences are mine, combined with my DNA and my build on the DNA, so it may just not work 1:1 for you. But I hope you will get something from it and the idea that IT IS OK TO FAIL.

How I Almost Became a CFO
of a Publicly Listed Company Before 29 But
Chose Not To

"Wait, wait, wait, are you an idiot?" - you are probably thinking. "Why would you choose not to do it?"

Side note: Or? Tell me what you are thinking when you read this title (How I Almost...). I am curious. If you don't want to share it. Write it down and see how it applies to you and try interpreting it, how your mindset is.

I wasn't exactly promoted but the person that took over after me, eventually, quickly (1-2yrs), became the CFO.

How did it happen?

I used to blame everyone else but me. Well, blaming is not the best thing either. It causes negative feelings in your mind. Doesn't matter who did it and why. What matter is what we can learn from it.

I come from Poland, and the reality of living there is not as pleasant as in the US or any other 'Western' country. It's not an excuse. Being born in the US makes it much easier, or does it?

Well, it is 50/50. When you want to, it is easier. But after Poland joined the European Union in 2004, 3 mln people (approx. 10% of the population) escaped / fled abroad. I don't think it has happened recently to any other 'civilised' country in the world, that 10% of the population just left... No war. No genocide. So what happened? I'll leave it to you to research.

Culturally Poland is tougher, people are more stressed and closer to their animal side, than human side, than in e.g. Western Europe. I am writing it because in the US you don't have to fight the ghost of communism, 60 years of mind control and brainwashing etc etc etc. In the US the brainwashing and communism is voluntary (people still give in, interesting). In Poland it has been mandatory.

My limiting mindset at that time led me to believe that it's my fault, or not my fault - blaming others. It was a mixture of both. I wasn't performing well, but the people were bad, the company was bad. Everything else but myself.

Instead of treating it as a learning experience, looking at it from distance, I chose (was taught) to take it personally. I lost this battle then. The culture in the company was horrible, but had I had the proper mindset, I would have just treated it as another great opportunity to learn (nobody died so it wasn't that bad). But in my brain, I was on the verge of dying, and on the brink.

Funny thing is that most of the people left the company / was replaced at that time, so it was also a period in the life of the company... But this is experience. Nothing personal. Just universe talking to us.

My talent and 'luck', and a lot of hard work brought me close to be a CFO really quickly, but my mindset / I prevented me from becoming one.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Btw would we all judge people in Zimbabwe and say it's their fault their country is the worst to live in the world, they should stand up and fight against army with their bare hands? Poland is the best example of what happens when you do it, without taking into account geopolitics. Then you land in a destroyed country, with decimated population... It's either this or submission which again may last for decades and costs people losing their MINDS (changing their MINDSETS to worse).

-----------------------------------------------------------

Remember IT IS OK TO FAIL. IT IS DESIRABLE TO FAIL.

Definitely to be continued....
 
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Because it's weekend and I am lazy now. TLDR - youtube video on the subject. Worth watching, if you don't have 7$ for the book or 3hrs to skim it.


Enjoy! Have a great day and see you again!
 
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"Hard work is a talent because hard work means that you keep going, you keep fighting, you know how not to quit under pressure. Even if you fail, you don't succeed, but you keep going. You keep pushing."

- Garry Kasparov, Introduction to his Masterclass.​

You will find the link here, in MJ's thread​

 
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Long time no see...

Salesmen are born, not made.

Entrepreneurs are born, not made.

Would you agree?

I would to a certain degree. Read this next sentence below and you should know exactly what I am talking about.

Salesmen and entrepreneurs are born, not made, because we are all salesmen and entrepreneurs from the beginning of our lives. Some of us are better, some worse.

There is a scale. Or even better. Between two colours white and black, in an RGB scale, we have 16mln shades....... add to it millions of transparency levels and other factors, and we have quadrillion of instances. This is us. People. DNA...

We aren't something because someone told we are, or we believe we are...

We are entrepreneurial when we get up in the morning and we brush our teeth. When we do our shopping and play with kids. There is no off/on button to it. It's more active in some activites and less present in others....

That's why I dedicate it to 'aspiring' people, that want to do something (don't care if we want to build a spaceship, a car, invent a new fridge that will help humanity...). When we are at the beginning of our journey, we need support and encouragement. Not 'tough love', 'wisdom bombs' and similar metaphors for just being arrogant.



I personally find the term 'wantrepreneur' condescending and harmful. Within specific context. But also a sign that the person saying it has some internal issues, deep down in his soul... Check below.

Imagine you are in a support group for AAs, or people with anxiety / depression / suicidal thoughts (or even actions).... or entrepreneurs. You, as a successful person in this area, go to meet these people (or on a forum). You are the example. They trust you, as you have been, experienced, what they are experiencing now. And you know, in the deepest part of your heart, it's nasty. They are in a nasty situation.

Dear Reader, you might not know how a person with anxiety or depression operates. Read about them. Imagine. Try to feel it.

And you start dropping wisdom bombs...... tough love.... (while all they need is a hug, as most of us crave acknowledgement...).

So the end result. The smallest 'impact' you made with you 'tough love' remarks, even though you wanted good. It would be - you would be kicked out from the meeting, hopefully. And the worst could be that, a person that had suicidal thoughts, actually left the meeting harmed really bad and 'resigned from life'.... You don't want to know...

A similar mechanism applies with any other areas, including entrepreneurship. So the next time before we comment or open our mouth. Think. Is this helping the other person or just building up our ego in our mind?.... Do we really want to help this guy with his entrepreneurial venture or just prove our ego? Would we want him to return to his activities pumped and positive or 'resigned' from them?...

Btw we have to remember. 93% of our communication is non-verbal, hence missing from chats and forums. When we are commenting here, 93% of what we want to communicate is missing already. We have 7% chances that we will be understood the way we want...
 

RoadTrip

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I am reading the book by Carol Dweck on mindset and it has helped me a lot on recently and on my path to happiness... I don't want to write about it because it's 7$ on amazon so go get it if you want to change your life...
So I bought this book upon your recommendation. I have read a lot of business books and I’m almost halfway through this one, but I can already tell that this book should come second on anyone’s list right after MJ’s books.

Thanks for the share!
 

NovaAria

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Thank you for this thread and for the book recommendation.
Coincidentally, just yesterday, I was talking with a friend who had some issues and this thread made me realize that I might have dropped some "wisdom bombs", as you called them. Only realized it now.
So, thanks for that, time to mend some wounds.
 

Kevin88660

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Why are we not successful yet?

I have my own views.

People need two things- the will power and the know how.

In the age of internet, looking for good answers is fairly easy.

So the only thing missing is will-power/discipline/drive...whatever you call it.

We all dont have enough of that because we are sane normal human people. To achieve great things we need to be uncomfortable and taking pain. Understanding that is one thing. Doing that is difficult becauae it is SANE and RATIONALE not to work hard to acheive dreams. People always seek comfort and give excuses because they are normal.

The self-help industry gets into the wrong direction. Setting goals and not achieving it builds frustration as if we did something wrong.

If you noticed successful people are usually a bit of crazy in one way or another. We need to learn and develop the personality of being competative and being crazy in one way or another.

Being obsessed with tricks and habits is avoiding the root of the issue.
 

RoadTrip

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Why are we not successful yet?

I have my own views.

People need two things- the will power and the know how.

In the age of internet, looking for good answers is fairly easy.

So the only thing missing is will-power/discipline/drive...whatever you call it.

We all dont have enough of that because we are sane normal human people. To achieve great things we need to be uncomfortable and taking pain. Understanding that is one thing. Doing that is difficult becauae it is SANE and RATIONALE not to work hard to acheive dreams. People always seek comfort and give excuses because they are normal.

The self-help industry gets into the wrong direction. Setting goals and not achieving it builds frustration as if we did something wrong.

If you noticed successful people are usually a bit of crazy in one way or another. We need to learn and develop the personality of being competative and being crazy in one way or another.

Being obsessed with tricks and habits is avoiding the root of the issue.
I partially agree. The reason we are lazy and do not take risk is because a lot of people are in the fixed mindset. They have to proof their intelligence or greatness (also to themselves) and therefore fear failing. Failing would prove they are not so intelligent as they think they are.

Instead, people with the growth mindset know that greatness and intelligence comes from constant hard work and failure. They do not have to prove anything as they know that through hard work and dedication almost anything (or anything) can be achieved. People with this mindset is what you refer to as “a little crazy” when actually they have a growth mindset and are not afraid of failure. Because they know failure is the road to success.

I highly recommend you read the book. It’s full of small experiments backing up the claims.


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Kevin88660

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I partially agree. The reason we are lazy and do not take risk is because a lot of people are in the fixed mindset. They have to proof their intelligence or greatness (also to themselves) and therefore fear failing. Failing would prove they are not so intelligent as they think they are.

Instead, people with the growth mindset know that greatness and intelligence comes from constant hard work and failure. They do not have to prove anything as they know through hard work and dedication almost anything (or anything) can be achieved. People with this mindset is what you refer to as “a little crazy” when actually they have a growth mindset and are not afraid of failure. Because they know failure is the way to success.

I highly recommend the book.


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I have seen it many times. It is beyond mindsets.

Most successful did not become successful after a motivation seminar or reading a few books.

They have not so normal personalities. Just to name an example.
-Hypercompetativeness. Hates losing.
-Low threshold for actions. Always trying.
-High Ego. Always need to prove themselves.

I never heard them saying I read this book and learnt this mindset.

I call them the “naturals”. For the rest ordinary folks we need to be brainwashed. We need to join a “Cult” to denormalise our own natural tendancy towards comfort.
 

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Everyman

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First of all big thanks to you Guys - @RoadTrip @NovaAria @Kevin88660 for commenting and having input on this subject. Rep for yous!

Secondly, sorry for not responding earlier. I have been on holidays and, lesson learnt for myself, I didn't even get close to thinking about anything 'work' or 'life' related. Never had better time... Anyway...

So I bought this book upon your recommendation. I have read a lot of business books and I’m almost halfway through this one, but I can already tell that this book should come second on anyone’s list right after MJ’s books.

Thanks for the share!
I really appreciate your comment and that it helps you. Would you share a bit more? If not too personal (don't share if you don't want to of course :) ). I am curious how it helps you? What have you found interesting in particular?

Thank you for this thread and for the book recommendation.
Coincidentally, just yesterday, I was talking with a friend who had some issues and this thread made me realize that I might have dropped some "wisdom bombs", as you called them. Only realized it now.
So, thanks for that, time to mend some wounds.
No, the pleasure is mine, and the thanks go to you!

Why would you say you dropped 'wisdom bombs' on him? Could you please share a bit more? Maybe you are judging yourself to harsh?

Why are we not successful yet?

I have my own views.

People need two things- the will power and the know how.

In the age of internet, looking for good answers is fairly easy.

So the only thing missing is will-power/discipline/drive...whatever you call it.

We all dont have enough of that because we are sane normal human people. To achieve great things we need to be uncomfortable and taking pain. Understanding that is one thing. Doing that is difficult becauae it is SANE and RATIONALE not to work hard to acheive dreams. People always seek comfort and give excuses because they are normal.

The self-help industry gets into the wrong direction. Setting goals and not achieving it builds frustration as if we did something wrong.

If you noticed successful people are usually a bit of crazy in one way or another. We need to learn and develop the personality of being competative and being crazy in one way or another.

Being obsessed with tricks and habits is avoiding the root of the issue.
Great views! I appreciate it Man. I wanted to ask.

Why do you think we are all normal sane human people? What makes you feel about us this way?

I partially agree. The reason we are lazy and do not take risk is because a lot of people are in the fixed mindset. They have to proof their intelligence or greatness (also to themselves) and therefore fear failing. Failing would prove they are not so intelligent as they think they are.

Instead, people with the growth mindset know that greatness and intelligence comes from constant hard work and failure. They do not have to prove anything as they know that through hard work and dedication almost anything (or anything) can be achieved. People with this mindset is what you refer to as “a little crazy” when actually they have a growth mindset and are not afraid of failure. Because they know failure is the road to success.

I highly recommend you read the book. It’s full of small experiments backing up the claims.


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Hoe gaat het RoadTrip? (the signature gave you away ;) )

Yeah, I remember this picture that is flying around with this boy - "I have a great multimillion dollar business idea. I am going to implement it... right after I finish this level in WoW..."

I used to 'laugh' at this type of person. In the meantime, I discovered, I am this person too. To some extent. Now I feel connection and an urge to help him, but not with 'wisdom bombs', but with offering acknowledgement...... this is what SUPPORT really MEANS.

But I am long way from achieving maturity there.

I have seen it many times. It is beyond mindsets.

Most successful did not become successful after a motivation seminar or reading a few books.

They have not so normal personalities. Just to name an example.
-Hypercompetativeness. Hates losing.
-Low threshold for actions. Always trying.
-High Ego. Always need to prove themselves.

I never heard them saying I read this book and learnt this mindset.

I call them the “naturals”. For the rest ordinary folks we need to be brainwashed. We need to join a “Cult” to denormalise our own natural tendancy towards comfort.
Yes, there are naturals. Actually you are touching the essence of the subject here. Great finding!

-----------------------------------------------

Not to leave you without any new 'discoveries'. I am pasting a powerful video, that I got from @Longinus a couple of days ago. It's about visualisation. While I have been avoiding this type of ... magic tricks... it is different as there is science. I have to have a logical proof, or at least be lied to there is one, to buy something.

Starting from 16-17min actually... Enjoy!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieOSA37HpMU
 

Kevin88660

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@Everyone

There is some psychology research done that workaholics have different personality traits compared to the rest. They always hold an axe and looking for the next tree to chop and they cannot stop. They are not thinking about about working their a$$ off so that they can retire forever.

My main opinion is that people are not successful because they do not push themselves enough. Most successful people are successful because they have strong inate personality issue that causes a lot of pain when they are not achieving. One common trait is “hypercompetativeness”. Steve Jobs, Mark Cuban and Travis Kalanick are clear examples.

Another example is childhood trauma due to poverty. Not all poor kids become rich but it is another common theme. Some of them are so traumatised that they work insanely hard due to the natural insecurity about money. Great boxers like Floyd and Manny are examples. I see a lot of Mainland Chinese businessmen have that kind of personal history.

I just think that most successful people have some sort of personality issue and psychology baggage that turned out to be an asset in becoming successful. These form about 90 percent of people who are ultra-successful. You do not hear about them attending seminars to get motivated or reading books to improve their mindsets. I am not saying these are not important but in fact these are very important for the rest of the population who are “normal folks”.

My view is that the the self-help camp very often is not seeing the big picture. People fail to get driven it’s not because they did not learn some mental tricks and apply them consistently. It goes really into something deeper. Failing to recognise that causes a lot of disappointment. Look at the weight loss industry- people get hyped, get some results, gave up half way and then feeling very guilty.

The only cultural group that somehow gets it is the military. Military is the only place where average joe gets pushed far beyond their limit successfully. The normal laid back civilian life culture is being cut off. They teach you a new set of behavior, culture, value and expectations. Everyone recognises that this is not the “normal” state of affair for any human being that seeks comfort and mediocrisy. And it takes a form of “brainwashing” to give the person a new identity. I see this as the most empirically successful example where masses of average guys are being pushed to accomplish a lot.

But if you were to ever take the military attitude out of army camps and place into the business or corporate world. It is going to face a lot of criticism as inhuman and psychopathic.
 

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To summarise my views I think besides all these mindsets and psychological tricks to boost productuvity, it is also far more important to develop the “obsessive” and “sadist” personality, value and identity.

I deliberately call them obsessive and sadist becase that is what they are, judging from what the rest of the society views as normal. And the self-help industry often mispackage it with more acceptable terms such as “drive”, “goal orientated” and “having high personal standard”. Very often response from the participants of these self-help programs find themselves disappointed because they could not follow through consistently to have the result and get very disappointed and guilty. They found themselves guilty of not achieving a very logical course of psychology therapy to overcome their natural instincts towards procrastination and comfort.

I think it is time to call a spade a spade. It is better to tell people you have to go sadist and obsessive, without sugar coating it. The military does it. The body building community does it. Look at the quotes printed on the walls in the gym. I think that is the way to go.

If you think that it is not worthwhile to lose your sanity for success then it is a personal choice, well nothing wrong with taking that choice. But it would be naive to treat as personal improvement or success as having “good mindsets” or “right attitude” without very clearly defining what they actually are.
 
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@Kevin88660 Thanks for the write up Man! Great summary and some brilliant points!

They always hold an axe and looking for the next tree to chop and they cannot stop. They are not thinking about about working their a$$ off so that they can retire forever.
I have heard that recently in a completely different environment... Went like this "Leave this man in a wood and the trees will regret". Did you get it from another source? I am curious. Maybe huge coincidence too...

One common trait is “hypercompetativeness”. Steve Jobs, Mark Cuban and Travis Kalanick are clear examples.
Do you have a source for that e.g. Steve Jobs being hyper-competitive? Again I would like to drill more. I know there are a lot of urban legends associated with super successful people too, but true - they had to / have to be hyper-something to achieve what they achieve.

I see a lot of Mainland Chinese businessmen have that kind of personal history.
Personally.. me too. But it can give you other type of issues with money too... if you are in bad environment, without a mentor or parents that are 'good' with money etc etc...

The only cultural group that somehow gets it is the military. Military is the only place where average joe gets pushed far beyond their limit successfully.
Ok. I know I am a pain with these questions. I would like to learn more... How many of the successful people have had military drill / training, that you know of (beside Arnold, but this wasn't the defining factor?). Or - how do we develop this personality / obsessed with something to the point of craziness?

But if you were to ever take the military attitude out of army camps and place into the business or corporate world. It is going to face a lot of criticism as inhuman and psychopathic.
Believe it or not. I had 'military' training for a couple of years between 11 - 15 years old. Real bad a$$ training. It produces psychopaths alright. There is another way to achieve it though... I will try to elaborate later..

Military needs to produce killers (SEAL) / thoughtless drones (that will obey orders). So they use the tools to produce something perfectly, as you well described it. But you don't want to literally kill people in business.

If you think that it is not worthwhile to lose your sanity for success then it is a personal choice, well nothing wrong with taking that choice. But it would be naive to treat as personal improvement or success as having “good mindsets” or “right attitude” without very clearly defining what they actually are.
I like this point. I like all of them Kevin. Last one for this time. Did I understand you correctly? I understand military is just an example. Do you know any other places / groups / approaches / tools / anything, that could be used to develop this 'psychopath' / 'obsessive' personality (and not to produce a killer like military does)? I think I already asked this above but it's really important here.
 

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@Kevin88660 Thanks for the write up Man! Great summary and some brilliant points!



I have heard that recently in a completely different environment... Went like this "Leave this man in a wood and the trees will regret". Did you get it from another source? I am curious. Maybe huge coincidence too...



Do you have a source for that e.g. Steve Jobs being hyper-competitive? Again I would like to drill more. I know there are a lot of urban legends associated with super successful people too, but true - they had to / have to be hyper-something to achieve what they achieve.



Personally.. me too. But it can give you other type of issues with money too... if you are in bad environment, without a mentor or parents that are 'good' with money etc etc...



Ok. I know I am a pain with these questions. I would like to learn more... How many of the successful people have had military drill / training, that you know of (beside Arnold, but this wasn't the defining factor?). Or - how do we develop this personality / obsessed with something to the point of craziness?



Believe it or not. I had 'military' training for a couple of years between 11 - 15 years old. Real bad a$$ training. It produces psychopaths alright. There is another way to achieve it though... I will try to elaborate later..

Military needs to produce killers (SEAL) / thoughtless drones (that will obey orders). So they use the tools to produce something perfectly, as you well described it. But you don't want to literally kill people in business.



I like this point. I like all of them Kevin. Last one for this time. Did I understand you correctly? I understand military is just an example. Do you know any other places / groups / approaches / tools / anything, that could be used to develop this 'psychopath' / 'obsessive' personality (and not to produce a killer like military does)? I think I already asked this above but it's really important here.
Hi.

I try to reply one by one.

I heard from Jordan Petersson. He cites research on people who are natural workaholics. It is also my personal experience. He used that analargy.

Regarding Steve jobs of course I get from mainstream news. He is a perfectionist and that hurts his relationship with his staffs a lot. Mark Cuban always compared business to sports. Marc is a sports fan and he hates losing. Chris Sacca is a friend of Travis Kalanick he gave a crazy anarlgy of how competative Travis is. Travis is ranked number two in some Wii game on tennis. There is youtube about Chris saying that.

It’s interesting you had some “military experience”. What is that? The military attribute I mentioned refers to being hard on oneself, not being hard on other people. Think of the military “hell week” selection program for example. It is the culture of embracing pain and sacrifice because there is no escape around that when someone wants to be successful.

Besides military I think another cultural group is body-building. When you goes to a gym you see all these crazy words like “Champions dont complain...”.

I have never seen a business entity applying the “military like” culture until very recently. That is this company called “Huawei”. They avoid hiring kids (fresh grads) from rich coastal cities in China. They hire kids from inner provinces with humble backgrounds. They go through company training in a boot camp. They talked about a “wolf culture” that “either you go out for a kill or gets killed.” They pride themselves in extreme work ethics. Again this is how they train employees. Not totally directly applicable to business people who want to motivate ourselves to work for ourselves.

I am pointing a direction but I don’t have the full answer. I do not know any program or tools that is used for Personal developement to develop the obsessive personality. This could be an unfulfilled demand? You mentioned that you have another way to achieve that personality modification? What is that? Would appreciate if you can share. I just think that the mainstream motivational guru like Tony Robbins are offering expensive quick fixes and the real game changer is not in the market yet.
 
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I heard from Jordan Petersson. He cites research on people who are natural workaholics. It is also my personal experience. He used that analargy.

Regarding Steve jobs of course I get from mainstream news. He is a perfectionist and that hurts his relationship with his staffs a lot. Mark Cuban always compared business to sports. Marc is a sports fan and he hates losing. Chris Sacca is a friend of Travis Kalanick he gave a crazy anarlgy of how competative Travis is. Travis is ranked number two in some Wii game on tennis. There is youtube about Chris saying that.
Yeah, I heard about Steve Jobs and his attitude and problems with subordinates and people in general. While I think the company is... we don't need iPhone 154 because it doesn't add anymore value (you can disagree), he created something huge... although there are people there that get along with other people and also create great stuff.... Another one is director James Cameron (similar to Jobs).

I would say these naturals comprise less than 0.0000001% of our society and we should focus on building our skills, instead of thinking of 'naturality', which to me is limiting. If I see it in my mind as something 'natural', then I relief /excuse myself from working for it, because 'I don't have it, so I won't achieve greatness anyway'... Maybe working in the opposite direction. So you can convince yourself you possess this natural skill, but just need to uncover it mroe / work on it. Imagine you are natural at 'this' or 'that' and act upon it... Weird, but migt actually work (we are able to convince ourselves that we are no good at something, and we know it, so why not try the opposite...!!!!)...

It’s interesting you had some “military experience”. What is that? The military attribute I mentioned refers to being hard on oneself, not being hard on other people. Think of the military “hell week” selection program for example. It is the culture of embracing pain and sacrifice because there is no escape around that when someone wants to be successful.
I used to train track & field (sprint mainly). But our coaches were tough. Too tough for this age and group and their approach didn't lead to long term success of their proteges. Barely. With the number of 'talented' people there (talented as in willing to hard work) they had, I would say negative results. It was a meat grinder. Unfortunately to the 'talent' pool there. And myself included. And to the coaches in the end, as they were stuck in their positions for decades...

We had more or less discipline like in military. (just a glimpse here of what we did) Our winter training camps were tough as hell. We slept of course properly 8-9hrs a day (not like during the hell week). But trainings 2-3 times a day, in full snow, -15C etc etc... it was fun but read below, why it wasn't fun...

And no praise (kids between 11-15). And some of us had great results (and again no praise, even hostility, most of the time)... And the coaches were 'kids these days aren't as good as before...'. Srsly it gives me shivers when I write it here... because we couldn't stand the shit we were given mentally at 13 years of age.... anyway...

I have never seen a business entity applying the “military like” culture until very recently. That is this company called “Huawei”. They avoid hiring kids (fresh grads) from rich coastal cities in China. They hire kids from inner provinces with humble backgrounds. They go through company training in a boot camp. They talked about a “wolf culture” that “either you go out for a kill or gets killed.” They pride themselves in extreme work ethics. Again this is how they train employees. Not totally directly applicable to business people who want to motivate ourselves to work for ourselves.
Interesting. Great knowledge here. Do you know any more about the wolf culture? Is it really 'wolf' (people committing suicide?)? Or just really tough discipline.

I have one experience recently with hiring a childminder. Bear with me. So she wasn't 'motivated' (^^ rich person from the coast) vs. we now have a great one from Brazil, who, aside from being a great family person, is also motivated, as she wants to learn the language, work, has excellent work ethic... We treat her with respect, because that's the way you treat people that show up and show eagerness.... in my opinion....

I am pointing a direction but I don’t have the full answer. I do not know any program or tools that is used for Personal developement to develop the obsessive personality. This could be an unfulfilled demand? You mentioned that you have another way to achieve that personality modification? What is that? Would appreciate if you can share. I just think that the mainstream motivational guru like Tony Robbins are offering expensive quick fixes and the real game changer is not in the market yet.
Nobody has but it's important to share which I greatfully appreciate.

I think I need more time to answer these questions properly...

I was born with obsessive personality, but it sometimes reveals itself when it shouldn't (you are annoyed by a small thing that doesn't matter, but you still follow it, pestering people and 'preaching', which makes it even worse....).... So the energy is there, but channelled somewhere it shouldn't. Like a power plant connected to an empty building....

It all depends. I think you can work on your mindset, develop more positive thinking and along the way uncover your 'obsession', or obsessive personality... in short. But I need more time, llike I wrote above....
 

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Yeah, I heard about Steve Jobs and his attitude and problems with subordinates and people in general. While I think the company is... we don't need iPhone 154 because it doesn't add anymore value (you can disagree), he created something huge... although there are people there that get along with other people and also create great stuff.... Another one is director James Cameron (similar to Jobs).

I would say these naturals comprise less than 0.0000001% of our society and we should focus on building our skills, instead of thinking of 'naturality', which to me is limiting. If I see it in my mind as something 'natural', then I relief /excuse myself from working for it, because 'I don't have it, so I won't achieve greatness anyway'... Maybe working in the opposite direction. So you can convince yourself you possess this natural skill, but just need to uncover it mroe / work on it. Imagine you are natural at 'this' or 'that' and act upon it... Weird, but migt actually work (we are able to convince ourselves that we are no good at something, and we know it, so why not try the opposite...!!!!)...



I used to train track & field (sprint mainly). But our coaches were tough. Too tough for this age and group and their approach didn't lead to long term success of their proteges. Barely. With the number of 'talented' people there (talented as in willing to hard work) they had, I would say negative results. It was a meat grinder. Unfortunately to the 'talent' pool there. And myself included. And to the coaches in the end, as they were stuck in their positions for decades...

We had more or less discipline like in military. (just a glimpse here of what we did) Our winter training camps were tough as hell. We slept of course properly 8-9hrs a day (not like during the hell week). But trainings 2-3 times a day, in full snow, -15C etc etc... it was fun but read below, why it wasn't fun...

And no praise (kids between 11-15). And some of us had great results (and again no praise, even hostility, most of the time)... And the coaches were 'kids these days aren't as good as before...'. Srsly it gives me shivers when I write it here... because we couldn't stand the shit we were given mentally at 13 years of age.... anyway...



Interesting. Great knowledge here. Do you know any more about the wolf culture? Is it really 'wolf' (people committing suicide?)? Or just really tough discipline.

I have one experience recently with hiring a childminder. Bear with me. So she wasn't 'motivated' (^^ rich person from the coast) vs. we now have a great one from Brazil, who, aside from being a great family person, is also motivated, as she wants to learn the language, work, has excellent work ethic... We treat her with respect, because that's the way you treat people that show up and show eagerness.... in my opinion....



Nobody has but it's important to share which I greatfully appreciate.

I think I need more time to answer these questions properly...

I was born with obsessive personality, but it sometimes reveals itself when it shouldn't (you are annoyed by a small thing that doesn't matter, but you still follow it, pestering people and 'preaching', which makes it even worse....).... So the energy is there, but channelled somewhere it shouldn't. Like a power plant connected to an empty building....

It all depends. I think you can work on your mindset, develop more positive thinking and along the way uncover your 'obsession', or obsessive personality... in short. But I need more time, llike I wrote above....
Thanks for your reply.

I recognised that a small minority of people are natural hardcore workers due to their personality. I dont see it as something limiting for the others who are born “lazy”. With the right mental rewiring like military bootcamp many people can be pushed to the next level.

I just think that those self-help literature in the popular mainstream market such as “visualisation” and “motivation” are just not hardcore enough.
 

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The older I get, the more I start to realize you need a lot more than just mindset alone.

There is survivor bias in business and history is written by the victors. Just like MJ's books are written from a perspective of someone who made the transition to "the fast lane". We might just all be fooled by this.

I saw a stat on how many books out of all books written become bestsellers. It's something no one talks about. MJ is telling us all we can do this. If only you commit for a 1000%. But he's selling a dream. Not a surefire way to success. He is not dishonest, not at all. But the harsh truth and what he's not telling you that even being obsessed with something and following the CENTS principle is not a guarantee at all.

Because what about the things you cannot control? I had initiatives crash and burn because of unforeseen events. If you study great entrepreneurs and successful businessmen, you will see there is some considerable luck or "right place, right time" involved.

I'm working on something now that I believe is going to work, but I have zero guarantees. It has zero traction at the moment, so should I stick with it or give up? As a father of three, I have to be careful where to direct my energy.

It's like going out surfing. You can try all you want and be a super surfer. If the ocean (your circumstances) and its currents are not working in your favor, you won't get anywhere. In fact you will get tired and be thrown out on the beach.

Everything has to align: a healthy mindset, a great idea and a window of opportunity.

Lately, I'm focusing on focus (if that makes sense) and being mindful of everything I'm doing. I have zero guarantees to end up where I want to. Might as well focus on enjoying the journey.
 

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The older I get, the more I start to realize you need a lot more than just mindset alone.

There is survivor bias in business and history is written by the victors. Just like MJ's books are written from a perspective of someone who made the transition to "the fast lane". We might just all be fooled by this.

I saw a stat on how many books out of all books written become bestsellers. It's something no one talks about. MJ is telling us all we can do this. If only you commit for a 1000%. But he's selling a dream. Not a surefire way to success. He is not dishonest, not at all. But the harsh truth and what he's not telling you that even being obsessed with something and following the CENTS principle is not a guarantee at all.

Because what about the things you cannot control? I had initiatives crash and burn because of unforeseen events. If you study great entrepreneurs and successful businessmen, you will see there is some considerable luck or "right place, right time" involved.

I'm working on something now that I believe is going to work, but I have zero guarantees. It has zero traction at the moment, so should I stick with it or give up? As a father of three, I have to be careful where to direct my energy.

It's like going out surfing. You can try all you want and be a super surfer. If the ocean (your circumstances) and its currents are not working in your favor, you won't get anywhere. In fact you will get tired and be thrown out on the beach.

Everything has to align: a healthy mindset, a great idea and a window of opportunity.

Lately, I'm focusing on focus (if that makes sense) and being mindful of everything I'm doing. I have zero guarantees to end up where I want to. Might as well focus on enjoying the journey.
I agree. Hardwork brings small success but luck often determines how big it can go. I talked about that in another thread.

A lot of business men here (in Asia) believe in Karma. So they keep doing charity as they believe it will deliver good stuffs in this life as well as in their next life.
 

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Mindset is always critically underestimated by99.5% of people.

"This amount of money will open up some opportunity"
"Getting into into these courses will increase my marketability"
"These clothes will make other people like me"

Nothing has proved to be more patently untrue than the Barrier > success mindset.
Ryan Holiday wrote an entire book about this in "The obstacle is the way", Your reality and your strengths are in the way you see things, and it only takes effort and focus to turn your world from a hellscape into something completely advantaged for you.
It's been a long time and 20+ books coming, but I've almost successfully completed Tony Robbins 10 day mental diet after so many other attempts that would've failed on the first day, it having been 3 YEARS of attempts.

I'm glad this forum is a place where we can discuss and encourage positive, open, resourceful mindsets without people attempting to shoot us down; it only helps us grow and proves that we're the right people in the right place.
 

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Personally, I think a lot of common struggles going from sidewalker/slowlaner to fastlaner is almost ALWAYS a matter of mentality; the only 3 other reasons in my opinion is winning the lottery (good luck), inheriting wealth (good luck), or being a really successful criminal (not recommended, obviously). And a lot of the mental obstacles that tend to come up are deeply entrenched, such as having no clue where to begin (for a number of reasons), a really deep (and natural) fear of the unknown, and subconscious excuse-making of all sorts. Even when we become fastlaners, struggles and obstacles still come up, such as wanting to save it all which producers further timidity (regarding "growth" decisions in business) and further fears of the unknown. Everything is a mental thing whether you're of the sidewalk, slowlane or fastlane.
 

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The older I get, the more I start to realize you need a lot more than just mindset alone.

There is survivor bias in business and history is written by the victors. Just like MJ's books are written from a perspective of someone who made the transition to "the fast lane". We might just all be fooled by this.

I saw a stat on how many books out of all books written become bestsellers. It's something no one talks about. MJ is telling us all we can do this. If only you commit for a 1000%. But he's selling a dream. Not a surefire way to success. He is not dishonest, not at all. But the harsh truth and what he's not telling you that even being obsessed with something and following the CENTS principle is not a guarantee at all.

Because what about the things you cannot control? I had initiatives crash and burn because of unforeseen events. If you study great entrepreneurs and successful businessmen, you will see there is some considerable luck or "right place, right time" involved.

I'm working on something now that I believe is going to work, but I have zero guarantees. It has zero traction at the moment, so should I stick with it or give up? As a father of three, I have to be careful where to direct my energy.

It's like going out surfing. You can try all you want and be a super surfer. If the ocean (your circumstances) and its currents are not working in your favor, you won't get anywhere. In fact you will get tired and be thrown out on the beach.

Everything has to align: a healthy mindset, a great idea and a window of opportunity.

Lately, I'm focusing on focus (if that makes sense) and being mindful of everything I'm doing. I have zero guarantees to end up where I want to. Might as well focus on enjoying the journey.
It's not about guaranteeing success, it's about tilting the odds in your favor. It's what he speaks about in Unscripted and at length in the summit last year. If you engage in ventures with net positive expectation value, you WILL win over time. The degree is debatable, but you will be leagues ahead.

You speak of things aligning your way, and I would tend to agree. BUT, one thing I've observed with myself is that the more action I'm taking, the more things seem to line up. If I'm flopping around with no purpose, nothing comes my way and things only continue to go south. If I'm on a mission and executing on the daily, then opportunities magically fall into my lap.
 

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it's about tilting the odds in your favor
Yeh what was it...1 in 6 odds of going fastlane vs 1 in 7 odds of retiring comfortably at age 67 even if you do invest 20% in mutual funds and not have a major health crisis?

Seems like a worthwile dare to partake in
 

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Yeh what was it...1 in 6 odds of going fastlane vs 1 in 7 odds of retiring comfortably at age 67 even if you do invest 20% in mutual funds and not have a major health crisis?

Seems like a worthwile dare to partake in
Slow lane works. It just sucks.

Even you had a 2008 crash before your retirement, you do not need to cash out everything for the yearly expense and can ride on the stock market recovery later. The reason why there are so many miserable folks if they do not even have the will to commit to the slow lane path.

Just buy health insurance if you worry about health.
 
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I just think that those self-help literature in the popular mainstream market such as “visualisation” and “motivation” are just not hardcore enough.
Agree 100%. I have tried so many things and I still struggle with the most basic fears that I have had since I remember.

I have been diving 'deep into the internets' and have found a lot of interesting, but disturbing in some way, ideas...

Don't have the names at hand but they are easily found anyway. So one of the 'methods' is to undergo a shocking experience (would be a FU moment or FU event in this forum's nomenclature). This is as hardcore as it can be but sometimes not requested and might destroy us... Or won't lead where we would like to go...

There is also ... wait for it... HYPNOSIS. Another one is HABITUATION and the last one, the most controversial is - changing your subconscious. The guy claims we operate driven by our subconscious for 95% of our time.... that's a lot to leave to an autopilot. And what is there? Whatever we were taught as children + stuff that we let inside, again by habit (of e.g. watching tv, reading bad news etc...).....

Be back to this part later in a separate post...

Lately, I'm focusing on focus (if that makes sense) and being mindful of everything I'm doing. I have zero guarantees to end up where I want to. Might as well focus on enjoying the journey.
Same here. I have been tired of my life (not that it's a bad life, it's just not what I want, I think...) and came to this conclusion too. I treat any book, MJ's for example as a ... part of something i.e. I wasn't born in the US, I wasn't, from the beginning of my life 'this and that', so I don't compare myself to him or anyone else. I just use books to learn. One thing I have learnt, really important, do what they did, not what they wrote in their 'millionaire' book they did. MJ is actually similar. After all he is a person, and we all are. Or don' listen to their advice now, because we people actually 'deform' our perception of what worked and what not and then talk about it...

It's been a long time and 20+ books coming, but I've almost successfully completed Tony Robbins 10 day mental diet after so many other attempts that would've failed on the first day, it having been 3 YEARS of attempts.

I'm glad this forum is a place where we can discuss and encourage positive, open, resourceful mindsets without people attempting to shoot us down; it only helps us grow and proves that we're the right people in the right place.
Glad you are making progress. Even if it takes 3 years, it's worth it.

Everything is a mental thing whether you're of the sidewalk, slowlane or fastlane.
I am at the moment contemplating. How much of where we are is up to us? Because I think that it is extremely difficult to control it, and this is why so many people just coast, either at work or in life in general. I have a questioning mind. I literally question everything... sometimes too much too often, and am argumentative. So it comes naturally to me not to agree to illogical things, like big companies being driven by politics inside, not by efficiency, employees not being rewarded for results but for 'spending x number of hours at work', but being rewarded for manoeuvring / outmanoeuvring other employees ... or maybe it's just me...

But 80-90% of us don't have this mind and didn't get it from 'God'...

If I'm flopping around with no purpose, nothing comes my way and things only continue to go south. If I'm on a mission and executing on the daily, then opportunities magically fall into my lap.
Same here. I do nothing. Nothing happens. I do something. 'Luck' happens ;)

Yeh what was it...1 in 6 odds of going fastlane vs 1 in 7 odds of retiring comfortably at age 67 even if you do invest 20% in mutual funds and not have a major health crisis?
I always wonder. And what after 67? People die without a reason to live. Has anyone asked himself what he will do when he retires? I assume a lot of people just don't care because it is so far... I don't know...
 
OP
OP
Everyman

Everyman

Get To The Choppa!
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
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Ireland
I haven't update this thread for .... oh well...

I have been working on different things (if calling myself a thing is ok?).

I wanted to share:

"“Don’t aim at success—the more you aim at it and make it a target, the more you are going to miss it. For success, like happiness, cannot be pursued; it must ensue, and it only does so as the unintended side-effect of one’s dedication to a cause greater than oneself or as the by-product of one’s surrender to a person other than oneself. Happiness must happen, and the same holds for success: you have to let it happen by not caring about it. I want you to listen to what your conscience commands you to do and go on to carry it out to the best of your knowledge. Then you will live to see that in the long run—in the long run, I say!—success will follow you precisely because you had forgotten to think of it.”" - "Man's Search For Meaning: The classic tribute to hope from the Holocaust" by Viktor E Frankl
 
OP
OP
Everyman

Everyman

Get To The Choppa!
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 31, 2015
285
508
252
Ireland
And another one from the same source:

"In view of the possibility of finding meaning in suffering, life’s meaning is an unconditional one, at least potentially. That unconditional meaning, however, is paralleled by the unconditional value of each and every person. It is that which warrants the indelible quality of the dignity of man. Just as life remains potentially meaningful under any conditions, even those which are most miserable, so too does the value of each and every person stay with him or her, and it does so because it is based on the values that he or she has realized in the past, and is not contingent on the usefulness that he or she may or may not retain in the present. More specifically, this usefulness is usually defined in terms of functioning for the benefit of society. But today’s society is characterized by achievement orientation, and consequently it adores people who are successful and happy and, in particular, it adores the young. It virtually ignores the value of all those who are otherwise, and in so doing blurs the decisive difference between being valuable in the sense of dignity and being valuable in the sense of usefulness. If one is not cognizant of this difference and holds that an individual’s value stems only from his present usefulness, then, believe me, one owes it only to personal inconsistency not to plead for euthanasia along the lines of Hitler’s program, that is to say, “mercy” killing of all those who have lost their social usefulness, be it because of old age, incurable illness, mental deterioration, or whatever handicap they may suffer." - "Man's Search For Meaning: The classic tribute to hope from the Holocaust" by Viktor E Frankl
 

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