Why Colleges Don't Teach Copywriting...

[Windsurfer]

My daughter is about to go off to college next year. Throughout our whole college search, I keep asking the most important copywriting question:

• What's In It For Me (My Daughter)?

I never get a good answer for this question. Here's examples of what I found that people pick colleges for - and what colleges advertise:

• A beautiful campus
• Great sports teams
• Which college will let my kid play on a sports team
• New dorms
• Low student-teacher ratios - but not how good the teachers are
• Advanced degrees that the teachers possess - ("those who can, do..those who can't..teach"..?)
• How many people apply vs. how many get accepted
• SAT/ACT scores of admitted students
• Cost

None of these factors tell me that my daughter will graduate ready to take on the real world.

My daughter has narrowed it down to Arizona State and U of Virginia. Check out the reasons to go to each school here at Versus.com. It's all about stuff that (to me) will not help my daughter find one iota of success in the private sector.

Sure there is some information about what companies hire so-and-so college graduates, but that company also hires high-school graduates. And fastlane thinking? Non-existent. Yeah there are schools of entrepreneurship at some colleges, but do you ever hear of a great entrepreneur who says they owed their success to their entrepreneurship degree?

Colleges love to talk about how successful some of their graduates have become. But just think about it. The Ivy League schools take the top performing high school grads..and they turn them into the top performing college grads. Did they really change anything?

College to me is the lair of the mother of all lizard brain activities. Lots of talk - very little action. Research up the wazoo, but nobody putting their own money on the line and putting themselves out there in the marketplace to be judged. It's all about grants and scholarships and being picked by someone else.

If I were copywriting for a college, I wouldn't tell people how much I spent on new buildings or what fun activities there are in the local area. I would tell them that students at my college will learn valuable skills such as coding, copywriting, financial analysis or engineering design that will provide them a path to success in the marketplace. Sure there are courses on all of the above, but nobody seems to emphasize what the end goal of college is - they just talk about how fun it is when the students are there.

So why am I sending my daughter to college at all? I think everyone already knows college is not really fastlane. Let's just say I don't get much of a vote. But if any college administrators read this, let me give them some advice. Don't tell me about how many cool clubs there are on campus, or how students really bond together at the social justice rallies

Tell me how my daughter will graduate equipped with skills that are in demand!

This is supposed to be education, not a $100-$200K Disney cruise!

 

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[Gabino Luna]

It really depends on her degree. If she's passionate about anything in the sciences or engineering, then a college education is the way to go. If she's interested in any other field/degree then college isn't necessary and will not give her a skill set that you can solely obtain from college.

 

[IAmTheJeff]

Windsurfer, I had an idea to start teaching "select" high school students the "Fastlane" way. I say do it! Someone PLEASE STEAL THAT IDEA AND IMPLEMENT IT!!!!!

 

[m_e]

All I can read is about YOU... What does your daughter want? How does she like those colleges? Is she even interested in fastlane stuff?

If I read your advertisement list, what colleges offer, it sounds like it is targeted to students themselves not their parents. Considering this, they did a good job.

But I also see your point. Since you pay for everything and you love your daughter, you want the best for her from your point oft view.

We all know that there is no school system that teaches about fastlane stuff. They rather teach how the business world works for someone who wants to work for someone else, not the other way around. But you can still learn a ton of useful stuff this way. In my opinion it is important to know how the slowlane works before you can exploit it and switch to the fastlane.

My guess would be that your daughter is not even interested in the fastlane world yet? And if that is true, then your real job is to get her interested... Those few things you need to know for the fastlane can be learned in no time without college! The rest is the right mindset and experience. And for those two things it is important that she actually wants it.

So if it was my daughter, the right college would be the last of my problems.

 

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[Windsurfer]

It really depends on her degree. If she's passionate about anything in the sciences or engineering, then a college education is the way to go. If she's interested in any other field/degree then college isn't necessary and will not give her a skill set that you can solely obtain from college.

I did not mean to say that college can't teach her anything, and my apologies if that is how I came across. She wants to major in business or economics. As everyone on this forum can attest - those subjects can best be learned through the school of hard knocks!

I just have been listening to other parents talk about why they like such and such a school, and I have had to sit through numerous pitches from administrators. It has just been frustrating when I ask questions about tracing what people learned at the schools to success after graduation. I get a lot of generalities like:

"Oh a lot of companies in the area hire our grads"

or

"There will be a lot of opportunities for follow on degrees"

It's like nobody is all that interested in the results. They are interested in how much fun their kids will have in school. I'm thinking I could come up with some pretty good vacation plans if I used 4 years and several hundred large to plan it on my own.

All I can read is about YOU... What does your daughter want? How does she like those colleges? Is she even interested in fastlane stuff?

Good question m_e! Yes it is all about me. Everyone else in my family, including my daughter to some extent, is totally for taking the traditional route. But I am footing the bill. At the end of the day I am losing the battle, and maybe the current college marketing works really well on this slowlane mentality. It is just really frustrating to see through all the BS and yet listen to everyone else tell me that if I really cared about my daughter I should really support her in this.

I DO really care about my daughter and that is EXACTLY why I am having a tough time with it!

I've talked to my daughter a lot about the fastlane. She has even read MJ's book and loved it. She has also helped me rehab, rent and flip houses that is getting me out of the slowlane. I bought all the slowlane BS when I was her age and I am trying to help her avoid it. She is interested but she is also interested in all the typical things a 17-year old is interested in. I am hoping the fastlane ambition will hopefully evolve over time.

 

[IAmTheJeff]

When daddy is rolling in dough before her junior year, her ambitions might just change.......just thinking out loud!

 

[Mike Kavanagh]

People don't want to listen to you until you do one of two things. Talk about things they like/do/WANT or have substantial evidence for your cause.

@IceCreamKid turned me on to Dale Carnegie's book "How to Win Friends and Influence People." The book may be old but the stuff in it really changed my outlook on certain things.
Normally I would argue and bitch trying to get my point across. It just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth because it doesn't work.

In your case, your daughter wants to go to college. Talk to her about it but, listen more-so than talk. Don't force your opinions on her. You need to hear why she wants to do it.

I know plenty of people who only went to college for the experience. On the bright-side she isn't trying to go to the party colleges(Frostberg, etc...)

 

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[Jimmyy]

Uni is more about connections and growing up as a person rather than learning anything special. Most things you can learn at Uni you can learn quicker and for free on the internet. Depends on the course.

Edit: I don't mean to belittle Uni or say you are wrong about looking for specific skills. Just saying to bear in mind these other factors when comparing Uni's.

 

[m_e]

Uni is more about connections and growing up as a person rather than learning anything special. Most things you can learn at Uni you can learn quicker and for free on the internet.

^Exactly this!

She will learn more about relationships between human beings, she gets new friends, maybe even lose old friends which she has to leave behind. She will learn how to work with other people on a project. She will learn how to study fast, how to manage time between partying and studying. She will learn how to work under pressure (i.e. exams). If she moves out of your house she will even learn more about living her own life and what that means.

Colleges play a big role in defining a persons character (leave aside the technical know how one can earn there).

I mean she is only 17. Do you seriously want her to start her own business already? If she has no desire in that direction yet, I wouldn't worry too much.

The time when she has to earn her own money will come soon enough. And eventually she will develop the need to switch to the fastlane. Then its your time as a father to show her how and guide her. But I wouldn't force her to to anything at the moment... especially not at the age of 17.

Those few important skills like copywriting can be learned later in a few weeks. There is no need develop a whole new school system for that.

 

[Windsurfer]

When daddy is rolling in dough before her junior year, her ambitions might just change.......just thinking out loud!

Great idea! Turn this frustration into a passion for fueling my fastlane business.

@IceCreamKid turned me on to Dale Carnegie's book "How to Win Friends and Influence People." The book may be old but the stuff in it really changed my outlook on certain things.
Normally I would argue and bitch trying to get my point across. It just leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth because it doesn't work.

Might be my favorite book of all time (sorry MJ). Couldn't agree more on this. My favorite chapter in the book is "You Can't Win an Argument". I don't bitch about this stuff to my daughter/wife/family. I know all I will be doing is ticking everyone off. That's why I bitch on this forum instead

In your case, your daughter wants to go to college. Talk to her about it but, listen more-so than talk. Don't force your opinions on her. You need to hear why she wants to do it.

I have always told her she should go where she wants to go. Many family members are pressuring her about going near where they are. I don't at all. But in the back of my head I keep thinking - this is not just her saying 'I want to choose where I go to college by myself'. If it was like that, then people should listen to me about what kind of car I want to drive. I want to drive a Ferrari. My parents should pay for it - after they listen to me.

Instead, I keep thinking this should be her first lesson in capital fundraising. I am the investor, and she is the entrepreneur. She should have the burden to convince me that a certain college is worth me investing my money there. Explain to me how she will use what she learns there to find a good job with a good company, command a good salary so she can afford to come home often and visit (without having to move back in with us), or learn some valuable skill that will allow her to start her own fastlane business. College seems to be one of the only large expenditures where the people footing the bill (the parents) are supposed to have little to no say in whether they want to invest or not.

^Exactly this!
She will learn more about relationships between human beings, she gets new friends, maybe even lose old friends which she has to leave behind. She will learn how to work with other people on a project. She will learn how to study fast, how to manage time between partying and studying. She will learn how to work under pressure (i.e. exams). If she moves out of your house she will even learn more about living her own life and what that means.
Colleges play a big role in defining a persons character (leave aside the technical know how one can earn there).
I mean she is only 17. Do you seriously want her to start her own business already? If she has no desire in that direction yet, I wouldn't worry too much.
The time when she has to earn her own money will come soon enough. And eventually she will develop the need to switch to the fastlane. Then its your time as a father to show her how and guide her. But I wouldn't force her to to anything at the moment... especially not at the age of 17.
Those few important skills like copywriting can be learned later in a few weeks. There is no need develop a whole new school system for that.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I am trying to convince her not to go to college and instead start her own fastlane business. I am not forcing ANYTHING on my daughter. She has told me that she appreciates me letting her make her own decisions. I know she is only 17.

But M_e - the stuff you describe - is it really worth several $100 thou? There are all kinds of ways to do that without going crazy monetarily. I hear a lot of college kids say their internships really helped prepare them for the real world. Couldn't she get an internship with someone out of high school and learn valuable skills, network, learn time constraints etc. on her own?

I showed her someone's post about hiring affiliates for their new business and she was EXTREMELY excited about doing that (INSIDERS will know what I am talking about). She applied for it, and was ready to ditch college in a heartbeat to join his group. I did not pressure her in any way. I just showed it to her and let her read it. Don't you think this would have brought her all sorts of networking opportunities and chances to live on her own? And she would have come out of it, if successful, with a couple hundred grand in her bank account instead of the college's.

I really love my daughter. This is not a rant in any way about her. This is a rant about colleges. Sure there are some good things about colleges, but I just don't think the ROI for my investment is worthwhile.

 

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[Windsurfer]

I know plenty of people who only went to college for the experience. On the bright-side she isn't trying to go to the party colleges(Frostberg, etc...)

Ha - I wish. Her top choice is Arizona State..

Playboy ranks ASU in the top 10 of party schools!

 

[Rickson9]

Just to answer the title of this thread: The people who are successful at copyrighting wouldn't be wasting their time teaching in college. Unless they were dead bored.

 

[m_e]

Sure there are some good things about colleges, but I just don't think the ROI for my investment is worthwhile.

I always forget that you have to pay a lot for college in america. (In my country its all free. So the worst thing that can happen is that you lose some time.)

So what you are effectively buying with your money is some nice time for you daughter, a bit of general education and a backup plan if she can't make it or decides not to go the fastlane route later. If that's worth it... I don't know...

Edit:
But then again, if its only about the ROI, no college education would be worth it because you will learn everything even entrepreneurial stuff much faster if you just learn it by your own.

 

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[Olympus]

It seems like they are great at copywriting. The list you provided is the answer. The topics on why people decide to go to college are what they should be pushing. Beautiful campus - yes please, great sports - of course! new dorms - I'm not going to be living in a dump. They know exactly how they are advertising and why. It's not a 1 size fits all solution - especially for us. Remember, we are in the minority here. People are looking for entertainment value more than anything. The list proves it.

Just like m_e and mike mentioned, its about the experience. Only a very small percentage actually know what they want to do and fewer know how to get there. I was one of them. I wanted to be an engineer. I had no idea what that actually meant, but I sure as hell knew I wanted to be in Allen Fieldhouse watching the Jayhawks smash everyone in the Big 12. That's one of the main reason I chose KU. Costs were another big deciding factor for me. Another one on the list.

So it seems, in my eyes at least, that the universities are advertising the best way to get a students in the door.

As for your daughter, I think you need to be supportive of what she decides. If you end up sticking her in a situation she really doesn't want then you are already fighting a losing battle.

 

[Mike Kavanagh]

I just don't think the ROI for my investment is worthwhile.

It's because you don't subscribe to the mentality of normal people. Not that is a bad thing.

Normal people want their kids to go to outstanding colleges to get into some prestigious career and live a better life then they personally had.
Entrepreneurs want their kids to be successful enough to not need a career, ever.

I respect you. My parents...well lets not go there. I could of gone to college, if I felt like working my a$$ off. There was no one to back me financially. Not even the government was going to touch me. $9/hr is to much money for financial aid.

I personally hate traditional education methods. They bore me. That is why I chose not to go that route.

Why not make this a challenge to her. Tell her to learn copywriting or sales to present to you why SHE wants to go to college. I would see her learning either of those two as positive ROI.

Tell your family to back off a little. They need to let her in on the decision making and make her own conclusions of why she wants to go. This is her first big adult decision that could shape the rest of her life.

Everyone one has the best interests for their children. Sometimes the best interest is letting them chose and understand why they chose that outcome.