Who do you follow for marketing advice?

[Kung Fu Steve]

Who do you follow for marketing advice these days?

 

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[Empires]

Hmmm I guess I need to be more specific somehow.

"Which friends in your industry? Where did they pick up their tricks? Experience? Or did they learn it from somewhere?

I have to give a lot of credit to @Andy Black. I scaled my business from 0-$13,000/month from his Google Ads course alone.

It taught me how to get infront of the people already looking for me.

His posts here on the forum and his course taught me from knowing just the basics on Google Ads and spreadsheets to now having 50 campaigns targeting different locations by zip codes so that the headlines can be hyper targeted and having complicated spreadsheets to track everything and create the campaigns.

Every business's needs are obviously different but he taught me the skills to be able to learn by trial and error.

Now i know how to analyze my data to make informed decisions.

Not sure if I ever said it formally but thank you @Andy Black . Your courses and posts have been a life changer for me.

 

[eliquid]

@Kung Fu Steve -

I think it depends on why you want to know which marketers we follow when it comes to beginners and advanced marketers.

I went through a period of time where I was constantly seeking out marketing info, even when making millions a year from FB ads, Google Ads, etc.

We're talking terabytes of data ( courses ) and dedicated email boxes for newsletters I was sub'd to.

Then, I personally started writing/podcasting/coaching advanced marketing tactics myself to others because all of those courses and newsletters ( no matter who it was) weren't advanced stuff. I thought there was a gap in the market.

Out of all of that, here is what I found:

1. Everyone caters to noobs because that is where the money is at. People at the beginning of the journey. It's the easiest content to produce, the kind of content everyone can understand, and there will always be plenty of noobs willing to dish out money.

2. Almost no one is showing advanced-level marketing. Meaning, shit that only a 10 year+ vet would know. The topics can be hard to understand, hard to write/talk about, you put it out there on blogs and podcasts and none of the noobs get it so they don't clap or upvote or share... etc.

So are you looking to learn marketing? If that is your why, you will find a ton of beginner stuff and hardly any advanced stuff.

Are you looking to emulate what advanced marketers are doing to make money? If so, follow the ones teaching the noobs.

It comes down to your why. If you want to learn the marketing tactics, you wont learn any advanced stuff unless you are doing.

If you are wanting to emulate what they do so you can cash out like them, then I could name a few.. but the end game is they are squeezing all they can from the noobs.

As far as myself, I stopped seeking out people/courses/newsletters and my marketing has improved. You learn no one is helping the advanced marketers for multiple reasons. Some of which I learned when I did advanced content.

Most of the truly advanced marketers, have no popularity or following. I could name several I know personally and none of them want to be on youtube or have an email list. They are just straight crushing it instead.

Personally, some of the stuff I am doing is truly groundbreaking and searching online provides no results of anyone else doing the same methods/tactics.. and no one evens knows who I am. You'd have a hard time ever knowing though unless I told you directly as my name doesn't really come up for anything but I could guarantee you I'm doing things Gary V or others who have a million followers wouldn't even know about.

Again, it comes back to your why.

Are you wanting to learn advanced marketing tactics, or just learn what successfull marketing gurus do to earn more from their list?

If it's to actually learn marketing tactics that are advanced, all the "well known" people aren't going to have that info.

 

[David Fitz]

Dan Kennedy is by far the best I've came across.

You can buy a lot of books he wrote and he also has Business Advantage TV where you can watch his seminars.

 

[BizyDad]

And if the advanced folks have stopped looking and learning

I don't think this is the case at all.

Look at the people who responded here who we would consider to be advanced. I don't believe any of them have stopped learning.

As an example, Andy has said he's stopped actively learning marketing, but he'll be the first one to say he's "making a nuisance of himself on Twitter". He's still learning. It's a newish marketing medium for him. So is podcasting, so is YouTube. I can't keep up with how much this guy is learning. Lex is learning game marketing, Seoguy has to keep learning the latest SEO updates.

I think a big difference between a beginner and advanced marketer / entrepreneur is that the advanced person knows how to seek out the answers they want and that is often through practical means as opposed to following a guru's advice. All those guys are doing instead of reading.

I got to a point in my knowledge journey, where it just seemed like nobody had anything new to say. The marketers today are repackaging stuff that the guys in the late '90s were selling, and those guys were repackaging guys from the early '80s, who were repackaging guys that were at their height in the '60s, and on and on.

There's perhaps some new bells and whistles with every decade, but once you realize that a fax machine or social media is just another marketing medium for delivering messages, you start applying direct mail principles to it. Or maybe mass market principles to it, depending on your experience and belief structure.

Marketing is constantly evolving, but the base DNA of it remains unchanged. When a beginner begins to see that, that's when they've advanced to a new level. Everything old is new again. Armed with the fundamentals, the advanced marketer doesn't need to seek out gurus, they just roll up their sleeves and learn the new tool.

 

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[BizyDad]

I have to give a lot of credit to @Andy Black. I scaled my business from 0-$13,000/month from his Google Ads course alone.

It taught me how to get infront of the people already looking for me.

His posts here on the forum and his course taught me from knowing just the basics on Google Ads and spreadsheets to now having 50 campaigns targeting different locations by zip codes so that the headlines can be hyper targeted and having complicated spreadsheets to track everything and create the campaigns.

Every business's needs are obviously different but he taught me the skills to be able to learn by trial and error.

Now i know how to analyze my data to make informed decisions.

Not sure if I ever said it formally but thank you @Andy Black . Your courses and posts have been a life changer for me.

If Andy is still selling his course, you should copy this onto that thread. That's great to hear.

And kudos to you for growing to $13k. Andy didn't do that for you and a lot of people take courses and don't act or give up. Keep going Empires.

 

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[Andy Black]

I have to give a lot of credit to @Andy Black. I scaled my business from 0-$13,000/month from his Google Ads course alone.

It taught me how to get infront of the people already looking for me.

His posts here on the forum and his course taught me from knowing just the basics on Google Ads and spreadsheets to now having 50 campaigns targeting different locations by zip codes so that the headlines can be hyper targeted and having complicated spreadsheets to track everything and create the campaigns.

Every business's needs are obviously different but he taught me the skills to be able to learn by trial and error.

Now i know how to analyze my data to make informed decisions.

Not sure if I ever said it formally but thank you @Andy Black . Your courses and posts have been a life changer for me.

Wow. I didn’t know that. Thanks for the feedback.

I agree with @BizyDad … my course was just the Jumpstart to get you going. I threw the ball out there, but you caught it and ran with it.

he taught me the skills to be able to learn by trial and error.

This is music to my ears. The goal of the course was to help people figure it out themselves.

The latest incarnation of the course is linked to in my signature. I’d love it if you could drop a note into there so I can find it again. One day I’ll get all the testimonials and put them onto a sales page.

 

[Lex DeVille]

No one.

 

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[MTF]

I've learned that instead of following marketing "experts" it's best to learn from those who do. In my case, I simply try to analyze what the top authors in my genre are doing or if they have their own resources for authors, listen to that. I'm wary of self-publishing "gurus" who aren't recognized authors or whose book rankings indicate low sales.

In business in general, I'd say the same is probably true. If you want to build, say, a successful newsletter, find a similar newsletter in your niche and copy what they did in the beginning (or if possible, pay the owner to coach you).

 

[MattL]

Similar experience. I love old school copy books from the 1920s and 30s. They really cut through the fluff.

Which newsletters do you read?

More than I can remember. They all go to the promo section in Gmail anyway so I don't mind the extra emails.

Went through my inbox and these are the names I found (mostly email copywriters):

Email marketers/copywriters
- Chris Orzechowski
- Robert Allen
- Ben Settle
- Daniel Throssell
- John McIntyre
- Alex Garcia (Marketing Examined)

SEO/Content/General Business
- @lludwig's list
- A couple of newsletters I found via this site Learning SEO: A Roadmap to Learn SEO with Free Guides & Tools (in the "keep updated" tab).

Before signing up for them I'd recommend investing in some books that teach big-picture marketing concepts.
Newsletters and YouTube videos can't do that.

For books (not that anyone asked ha):
- Hopkins's Scientific Advertising
- Cialdini's Influence
- Schwartz's Breakthrough Advertising
- Sugarman's Adweek Copywriting Handbook
- 1 academic marketing book, think Kotler's Marketing Management is still popular.

These books are obviously more copy-related. It's been my experience that general marketing books are too wordy, vague, and abstract. That's why I only added one of them. Should be enough.

And before I forget...
If anyone on this forum has a newsletter I'd love to sign up!

 

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[Fox]

Some people I have learned from over the last year with Marketing:

- Seth Godin
- Alex Hormozi
- Dan Kennedy
- Rusell Brunson
- The Futur
- Gary Halbert
- Robert Cialdini
- Donald Miller
- Malcolm Gladwell
- Ryan Holiday
- Perry Marshall
- Andy Frisella

It's kinda your classic top list of well known marketers but still plenty to pick up from them.

 

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[Andy Black]

Who do you follow for marketing advice these days?

Laurel Portie, Dan Wardrope, and Rachel Miller. Not religiously. I like their content and how they create it.

 

[BizyDad]

Or did they learn it from somewhere?

Trial and error.

The ones I trust do this. Only reason I go to friends for advice is when I'm not sure of what the data I see is telling me, so I go to them and look for correlation or corroboration and draw better inferences. Or if I need advice in an arena I don't have competency in, but there's so much schlock online about any marketing field that I just surround myself with a small handful of people I trust to be at least approaching subject matter expertise and I'll ask them to shoot it to me quick and straight.

But back when I was still hungry for marketing knowledge, I read blogs like conversionxl, psyblog, SEO by the Sea. The last two I'm sure are still solid sources of info, psyblog isn't just marketing - marketing is a small piece of their articles, and I don't know if CXL is or isn't any good these days.

Maybe you just need some newer marketers to respond...

 

[SEBASTlAN]

the data

 

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[Andy Black]

"When it comes to marketing and advertising your business specifically... Whose advice do you take regularly?"

I’m like @BizyDad. I don’t really read or follow folks much now.

I figured out years ago a few things that work for me. I’m constantly figuring out new things (which I document in here), and much prefer to do it myself.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks for the meaningful responses!

If we were having an in-person conversation I'd pepper you all looking for other examples "who do you follow for motivation, who do you follow for entertainment, who do you follow for fitness advice"

So far it's pretty inconclusive but there doesn't seem to be a standout name. I was expecting someone to say Gary V (but he really doesn't teach marketing besides "post more"), I'm happy to see Dan Kennedy's name. I'm a fan, too.

I'm curious where the beginners go and where the advanced folks go... And if the advanced folks have stopped looking and learning... I'm curious if that's effecting business growth? (Honest question, not a judgement)

 

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[Andy Black]

In business in general, I'd say the same is probably true. If you want to build, say, a successful newsletter, find a similar newsletter in your niche and copy what they did in the beginning (or if possible, pay the owner to coach you).

^^^ This.

I follow and subscribe to Laurel Portié’s membership at www.adcoachingfor7.com because:

1) Her business model is already similar to mine, but she’s further along the path I’d like to travel.

2) So I can watch how she does things in her membership. (I learn way more watching what she does than consuming her content.)

3) Because her content is good (if too lengthy in her membership compared to her free content on her podcast / YouTube channel).

I ranked the above in order of importance to me.

First and foremost is that I like her values, business model, ethics, and goals.

Another reason I stopped following Gary V is that he’s building a business I have no desire to run.

I prefer to follow people slightly further along the path I’d like to travel, and who move in the manner and speed I’d like to travel.

 

[MattL]

I used to read a ton of copywriting & marketing books. Stopped when they all started sounding the same.

Nowadays I'm subscribed to all kinds of newsletters. Mostly for inspiration.

 

[David Fitz]

^^^ This.

I follow and subscribe to Laurel Portié’s membership at www.adcoachingfor7.com because:

1) Her business model is already similar to mine, but she’s further along the path I’d like to travel.

2) So I can watch how she does things in her membership. (I learn way more watching what she does than consuming her content.)

3) Because her content is good (if too lengthy in her membership compared to her free content on her podcast / YouTube channel).

I ranked the above in order of importance to me.

First and foremost is that I like her values, business model, ethics, and goals.

Another reason I stopped following Gary V is that he’s building a business I have no desire to run.

I prefer to follow people slightly further along the path I’d like to travel, and who move in the manner and speed I’d like to travel.

I see her ads all the time.

 

[Kevin88660]

I personally happen to know a thing or two about marketing.

MY why is a little bit of research. I have some theories that seem to be getting confirmed. I was trying to be vague so it didn't skew things but I posted this question several places. Rarely are any names repeated. Which leads me to believe that most people who are looking for marketing advice are either A.) not doing it at all, or B.) follow a specific person for best practices in their industry.

Still inconclusive.

But, again, if I asked everyone "who do you follow for motivation" -- I'm willing to bet the same 5 names pop up for just about everyone.

I'll be teaching the basics, of course. There has to be an entry point. But the advanced stuff is what I'm looking to really teach -- and you're right -- very few people would grasp the concepts... which is why my role is figuring out how to take advanced concepts and make them simple... OR just do it for them

I've been writing out some classes that covers the basics and teases at the advanced. Was looking for comparisons as to what's out there in the market currently but man... it's all over the place!

I ll try to be more specific.

It is usually revolves about an old concept that is getting more popular, or someone who came out with the new strategy.

But the exact implementation of the tactics and knowhow we have to refer to other people/influenzer/interviewee who have experience operating much smaller projects. Thought leaders usually developed ideas from managing much larger enterprise that you have to look elsewhere for much smaller application.

Loss Leader Pricing (Very old strategy)
-Amazon, loses money on retail but make it back on subscription
-Local Food Business outlet, loses money on fries promotion but make it back on higher margin beverage.
-Content creator: provide free content but have paid subscription

Insights: Success decides on precision. How relevant and effective are the two offers in leading conversion? Some sort of market insights and data is need.


Private Traffic Reservoir
The idea is a book in Chinese language written by CMO from Luckin Coffee in 2016. The idea is on the long run paid advertising already has and will continue decline in cost effectiveness. More money is competing for a fixed pool of attention and not growing.

Solution: Develop and engage existing customers/ leads to have continual needs discovery, referral and repurchase opportunity. Develop long term perspective on lead nurturing and conversion. Invest in your existing customers. If paid leads are like water flowing to you from major rivers then it is important to have your reservoir.

Areas of implementation for SmAll business and project owner: develop whatsapp/wechat group management skills.

 

[BizyDad]

Joe Polish is a good marketer too, especially if you're a carpet cleaner. That's how he started out. He has a podcast I Love Marketing.

For those in Phoenix, he also started a I love marketing meetup. He doesn't attend regularly, but it's still a good meetup. (To be fair, last time I attended was pre-covid). Good content, and I usually meet at least one other interesting business owner.

I'm just curious: Anyone tried successfully or maybe not successfully a "Launch", the concept of Jeff Walker? This is his book, maybe someone of you read that, too? Launch: An Internet Millionaire's Secret Formula To Sell Almost Anything Online, Build A Business You Love, And Live The Life Of Your Dreams: Walker, Jeff: 0001630470171: Amazon.com: Books

In a nutshell it's a concept of e-mail-marketing for mostly educational products, but can get - according to him - applied to any form of business. I read it and also attended a free course and I need to say, that lots of his explanations, ideas and concepts are resonating with TMF:
- he focuses on real value and perceived value;
- repeats again and again, that it's not a get-rich-quick process is and that it takes lots of effort to set his concept in place;
- emphasizes to start rather than waiting and dying in perfection;
- getting out of the building and TALKING to people to receive feedback/create value
- and I could go on.

Meaning: For me he seems legit and I'm currently implementing his concept and will give it a try. Anyways I'll learn from it and in worst case it's an additional check on my "doesn't work list" and in best case I make some revenue and go one step further in my journey.

So ... experiences with Jeff Walker? Anyone?

Jeff Walker is legit. I don't know about this book in particular. It sounds like an update / rehash of his whole product launch formula.

Like any other guru type, take the good and apply it, ignore the bad or the irrelevant.

missed you bro

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Hmmm I guess I need to be more specific somehow.

"When it comes to marketing and advertising your business specifically... Whose advice do you take regularly?"

The data, sure. But who taught you to read that data? Google? YouTube?

Which friends in your industry? Where did they pick up their tricks? Experience? Or did they learn it from somewhere?

 

[Andy Black]

And before I forget...
If anyone on this forum has a newsletter I'd love to sign up!

I intermittently send emails to folks subscribed to my Follow-Along at www.StartSellScale.com

 

[David Fitz]

Yeah, retargeting is a big part of her paid strategy.

I just signed up to her group. Can't go wrong with $7 a month.

 

[David Fitz]

Joe Polish is a good marketer too, especially if you're a carpet cleaner. That's how he started out. He has a podcast I Love Marketing.

 

[Andy Black]

Yes it's a nice little income stream. A price of an expensive coffee a month, you won't even feel that coming out of your bank account every month.

She has about 1500 members in her group. 1500 x 7 = $10500. A nice little 6 figure income every year plus the extra services she offers to those members.

Were you thinking of doing anything like that with your $15 Google Ads group?

Her model is:

1) Agency clients. I think paying $1k/mth plus a % of revenue.

2) Group coaching where they pay about $200/mth for weekly Zooms where she explains what’s working for her clients, and helps them with their accounts.

3) The $7/mth group where you can ask her questions twice a week that she answers with a video, and where you can access some of the recordings of her group coaching sessions.

Most of her revenue is from agency clients.


Yes, I was implementing something similar when I found her, and I followed to see how she was doing it.

My main difference in implementation is that I like my courses to consist of super short videos.

I picked $15/mth as that’s about the price of Netflix or Masterclass, and I felt $7/mth looked a bit too low.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

I got to a point in my knowledge journey, where it just seemed like nobody had anything new to say. The marketers today are repackaging stuff that the guys in the late '90s were selling, and those guys were repackaging guys from the early '80s, who were repackaging guys that were at their height in the '60s, and on and on.

There's perhaps some new bells and whistles with every decade, but once you realize that a fax machine or social media is just another marketing medium for delivering messages, you start applying direct mail principles to it. Or maybe mass market principles to it, depending on your experience and belief structure.

Marketing is constantly evolving, but the base DNA of it remains unchanged. When a beginner begins to see that, that's when they've advanced to a new level. Everything old is new again.

Ain't that the truth

 

[Andy Black]

As an example, Andy has said he's stopped actively learning marketing, but he'll be the first one to say he's "making a nuisance of himself on Twitter". He's still learning. It's a newish marketing medium for him. So is podcasting, so is YouTube. I can't keep up with how much this guy is learning. Lex is learning game marketing, Seoguy has to keep learning the latest SEO updates.

You’re right, I’m still learning but by doing rather than following people or reading/listening/watching courses/books/etc. That’s what I meant but didn’t phrase it correctly. Thanks for picking up on that @BizyDad.

Learning from a book is nowhere near the same as doing it and getting real life results.

I’ve a load of “Figuring out XYZ” threads in the forum. I’m not necessarily trying to turn YouTube, LinkedIn, Twitter, Podcasting, etc into a new marketing channel for me or my clients.

I like figuring out each marketing channel by getting stuck in rather than taking a course. I also find I get clarity quicker by documenting what I’m doing… often in a progress thread.

(Notice how I try not to use the word “learn”. My goal isn’t to “learn” per se, more to figure it out.)

Once I feel I’ve broke the back of something I often stop and turn my attention to another channel. It’s like I do a 90 day immersion in something then come up for air and pick something new.

For one, I’m insationably curious.

Another benefit is I can legitimately chat to someone and be able to advise them on lots of different channels - because I’ve been at the coal-face for a little while, even if I’ve not got massive results.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

And before I forget...
If anyone on this forum has a newsletter I'd love to sign up!

If marketing is what you're after, you can check my podcast - I focus on creating quite unique content, stuff that you won't usually find around. I've got a thread about it here: EXECUTION - Starting The Best Marketing Podcast in The World

 

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[Andy Black]

@Kung Fu Steve -

I think it depends on why you want to know which marketers we follow when it comes to beginners and advanced marketers.

I went through a period of time where I was constantly seeking out marketing info, even when making millions a year from FB ads, Google Ads, etc.

We're talking terabytes of data ( courses ) and dedicated email boxes for newsletters I was sub'd to.

Then, I personally started writing/podcasting/coaching advanced marketing tactics myself to others because all of those courses and newsletters ( no matter who it was) weren't advanced stuff. I thought there was a gap in the market.

Out of all of that, here is what I found:

1. Everyone caters to noobs because that is where the money is at. People at the beginning of the journey. It's the easiest content to produce, the kind of content everyone can understand, and there will always be plenty of noobs willing to dish out money.

2. Almost no one is showing advanced-level marketing. Meaning, shit that only a 10 year+ vet would know. The topics can be hard to understand, hard to write/talk about, you put it out there on blogs and podcasts and none of the noobs get it so they don't clap or upvote or share... etc.

So are you looking to learn marketing? If that is your why, you will find a ton of beginner stuff and hardly any advanced stuff.

Are you looking to emulate what advanced marketers are doing to make money? If so, follow the ones teaching the noobs.

It comes down to your why. If you want to learn the marketing tactics, you wont learn any advanced stuff unless you are doing.

If you are wanting to emulate what they do so you can cash out like them, then I could name a few.. but the end game is they are squeezing all they can from the noobs.

As far as myself, I stopped seeking out people/courses/newsletters and my marketing has improved. You learn no one is helping the advanced marketers for multiple reasons. Some of which I learned when I did advanced content.

Most of the truly advanced marketers, have no popularity or following. I could name several I know personally and none of them want to be on youtube or have an email list. They are just straight crushing it instead.

Personally, some of the stuff I am doing is truly groundbreaking and searching online provides no results of anyone else doing the same methods/tactics.. and no one evens knows who I am. You'd have a hard time ever knowing though unless I told you directly as my name doesn't really come up for anything but I could guarantee you I'm doing things Gary V or others who have a million followers wouldn't even know about.

Again, it comes back to your why.

Are you wanting to learn advanced marketing tactics, or just learn what successfull marketing gurus do to earn more from their list?

If it's to actually learn marketing tactics that are advanced, all the "well known" people aren't going to have that info.

I’d rep you if I could. So much of this resonates.