Where Did They All Go?

[MJ DeMarco]

I actually inquired with some folks who disappear and I hear a variety of things. One of my favorite posters who I haven't seen post in while, mentioned a nasty divorce when I asked. When people leave the forum, it's usually an FTE type of event.

Here's what I generally heard over the years about why people disappear...

In no particular order and the % (a pure speculation) on the why

1. They have a baby or experience family drama) (see # 7)
2. They get divorced (or married) (see # 7)
3. Their business grows like a weed and don't have time to post any longer (25%)
4. They use the forum to connect then go IRL or offload to FB (5%)
5. They fail once or twice and give up, or their business fails (10%)
6. They get a job (25%)
7. Life gets in the way: sickness, job loss, family dramas, divorce, marriage, children ... (25%)
8. Other times its just that something spoken (or not spoken/moderated) at the forum causes the FTE and abandonment; a forum user says shit, flame wars, someone copying shit, a mod or myself upsets them (10%)
9. Other times they just forget we exist. It doesn't help that the forum software still doesn't have push-to-iPhone connectivity. It improved recently (android) but still is much to be desired. (unknown %)

The forum has a lot of competition and I'm not talking about Facebook.

It's life itself.

Just for example, I know firsthand (via private email) that this forum lost several women due to the anti-feminist talk that happened here earlier in the year (maybe late 2018). When one member says ridiculous things it often gets projected to the forum as a whole. Because mods (and me) don't read every post, every thread, there's a lot of stuff that hangs around the periphery, and sometimes that's enough to get someone to say, "Meh, not for me."

For many of us, this forum is our "work environment" -- the water cooler of sorts. Entrepreneurship can be lonely. If I felt the water cooler and the work environment was hostile, or unsupportive, I wouldn't stay. That's actually what happened a decade ago in my daily participation the the RD Forums. It ceased to be supportive.

Then this place was born.

 

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[BizyDad]

Hey @PizzaOnTheRoof we'll just have to lead that next generation of 2020 posters bringing the value and building a fam.

Apparently it only takes a few years to blow up so big you just don't post anymore. Gotta take daily action though. 1000 miles ain't that far bro. In 2025 people will be like where did pizzaontheroof and bizydad go?

TFF Fam forever.

 

[Runum]

In the 12 years of the forum we have gone through various cycles. Some were very productive and helpful. Some were destructive.

One of the cycles was a hot period where there was a lot of energy. Importing and online businesses were the rage. The big questions were what product do you sell, where do you source it from, and where do you sell it? Several experienced members mentored some newbies. A couple of newbies literally copied the HTML code from websites and totally copied their mentor's business item for item. This could potentially devalue the original business and hurt the mentor. The result has been less overt help for newbies.

We also have had several periods where members were shady and dealing behind the scenes. The result was less trust on the forum. This hurt MJ and the forum overall and drove members to trust only their inner circle. Again newbies lose out.

Kak, biophase, SteveO, and others do come here to help but even they have a limit as to how much they will share and how much they will help.

All of us, legendary or not, successful or not, have to measure how much we engage on a public forum. There are nefarious people lurking out there in and amoungst the authentically inquisitive newbies.

 

[Runum]

Many are still around, reading, lurking, looking for opportunities to help. Others are busy executing. Some have made contact with each other off forum after doing meetups. Some have moved on. There are very talented and experienced members present.

Sometimes it gets tiring having to prove yourself to every newbie that creates a new profile and is here to set us all straight.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Here are the usual reasons I don't post as much:

1. Don't feel like I have something I really want to share.
When I first joined I made a pact with myself to not waste anybody's time and to try to make every post as valuable as possible. It was the kind of mentality I hoped to receive in return.

2. Increasing number of low-value contributions
A lot of times when I click into a post that looks interesting it turns out to be something really stupid not worth reading or responding to and violates my expectations based on the pact from above.

3. Expectation of future free value based on past free value
Sometimes I wonder why past high-value contributors are expected to show up and provide more free value in the future. It's not like there's a box you check at sign up for "Legendary." We all start the same place with "Parked" and zero posts. Sometimes new people make GOLD posts. So why is a burden of expectation placed on people who've already contributed value that continues to hold value to this day?

4. It sucks when you share something and people don't use it
Whether it's a value-post or a response, it all takes time and energy and when people repeatedly disregard advice they asked for, or get hyped and praise suggestions from a post and then disappear, it's kind of draining. It's also disheartening to watch some who are so motivated go through their failures, especially those who throw in the towel.

5. Misalignment of values
Sometimes I don't feel like my values align with the forum. A lot of people see Fastlane as the creation of a multi-million dollar business with an exit plan. I mainly enjoy the process of creating passive systems that cover my expenses and free my time while I do what I want.

Also, I'm a *figure it out on my own* kind of guy and there's a lot of whiny, needy people who show up and want their hand held.

 

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[PizzaOnTheRoof]

I've been reading through some old threads from around 2014. Multi-page GOLD and NOTABLE threads with people posting every day like maniacs dropping value bombs like nobody's business.

Every now and then I check the user's profile and see that they haven't logged on in months or even years. It's like they just stopped coming here or gave up on the Fastlane dream altogether. Maybe life just got in the way, had kids, or found a job they were happy with?

Even gold contributors, people who showed up daily, took action, hustled and gave back to the community like a family...it's just...a bummer...

I would've liked to talk to these guys and gals back in the day!

 

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[BellaPippin]

Hey @PizzaOnTheRoof we'll just have to lead that next generation of 2020 posters bringing the value and building a fam.

Apparently it only takes a few years to blow up so big you just don't post anymore. Gotta take daily action though. 1000 miles ain't that far bro. In 2025 people will be like where did pizzaontheroof and bizydad go?

TFF Fam forever.

One of my goals is to make a gold post some day.

 

[SteveO]

Come to the meetups. Everyone comes out of the cracks for those. I still see many of my forum friends throughout the year at different events but the majority come to the meetups.

Some of us have been friends longer than the forum has been in place.

 

[Andy Black]

Sometimes it gets tiring having to prove yourself to every newbie that creates a new profile and is here to set us all straight.

Lol. Indeed.


I try to leverage that. When I find I'm repeating myself, I create threads and point people to them. Over time the thread/post /thought gets polished. I also *know* it’s something that will help many people.

 

[csalvato]

This situation is beyond ironic.

The exact situation being described is exactly what's happening:

People who are, by definition, less experienced posters (i.e. new to the forum – @BizyDad, you joined the forum 2 months ago) coming in and creating an annoying argument where there was none before.

For what reason? To be right about something?

Imagine how this scene would have played out if we were all in a bar (something I actually do with people from this forum):
...
JS: I sometimes don't come to this bar because when I come here, it's inevitable that I get into a debate or argument that annoys me. It's because my views don't line up with some people here.
1S: Oh? What views are those? I'd be interested to hear them.
JS: Nah. I don't want to because it always causes an argument.
CS: For what it's worth, I'm also interested in your opinion.
1S: Your opinion is really valuable.
BD: What you are doing is rubbing me the wrong way. Back off!
...

If this happened in person, there'd be a lot of side eye going around...

So the topic of this thread is "Where did they all go?" That is, "Why do people not stick around?"

As someone who has been here for 5 years, attended 4 in-person meetups, and gave 2 presentations at the Summit, this is a reason I often need to step away.

PS - @JScott, now I get it. This thread is a case-in-point. No need to expand further. I'm still interested in your opinions, but I'll find another way to have this discussion one day.

 

[biophase]

One of the big reasons I don't post as much is that I'm finding that -- as I get older -- my views are tending to diverge from a lot of the younger and less experienced posters. I'm not saying that either side is "right" or "wrong," just that as I get more experience (business and life), I see the world differently than I used to, and differently than a lot of people here.

My views on education, what leads to success, what defines success, the value of money, the value of time, the role of family and personal life, obligations to society, etc., is different than it was when I was younger and is different than a lot of people here. When it comes to political and social discussions, it's easy or me to get annoyed (and to annoy others).

I know a couple other "old timers" from the site who have the same issue... But, as long as I feel like I can provide some value, I'll continue coming back...

I'm going to jump in here with my opinion. So I am now 48, and I think about what my thoughts were back when I was 25, 35 and even 45. And my views have drastically changed every 5-7 years. As you grow older, what you value changes.

For example, at 25 you may value a nice car, at 35 you may value a nice house, at 45 you may value your health, at 55 you may value your time. Imagine 4 different people with the above values trying to agree on how to spend $100k. It will never happen.

This change comes with age and no amount of data or debating is going to convince anyone that is in a different mindset or situation that your viewpoint is better. So I've basically stopped trying to do so, like Jscott. And like Jscott, I've said to myself, why am I even bothering with this argument.

I was literally thinking this while talking to that MLM kid in the bookstore a few months ago. It was a no win situation, not worth my time.

So where have the old timers gone? I bet some hang around, but they feel it's not worth the keystrokes to reply to many of the messages here.

 

[SteveO]

Maybe I'm not on the list then. I don't recall seeing you trying to contact me. Nor do I recall a bunch of fastlaners I talk to on a regular basis saying 'wow, @PizzaOnTheRoof has been very persistent in wanting to talk to me!'. It is just a general callout for you. Just busting your balls. You lamented, yet I am guessing did not take the next step to do something about it. That is an excuse and something within your power to change. For me, if there is a forum member I want to talk to, I contact them!


This too. Or tag people in a post. Or DM. Just quit making excuses that you cannot talk to people. You can. It takes about 30 seconds to find most members outside of the forum.

Summary: @PizzaOnTheRoof says he wants to talk to forum members. If @PizzaOnTheRoof was serious, he would find them and contact them.

@ZCP... aka ball buster. @PizzaOnTheRoof . If you ever come to a meetup, don't tell Zane what you are working on. Unless you are ready for a rabid dog on your tail.

 

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[broswoodwork]

It is an interesting phenomenon, isn't it?

I've wondered if it's easier/ more compelling to contribute when you're starting and in the E-Myth stages, and proportionally more difficult when you cash out your chips, or the longer you get stuck building the system?

There's guys like Kak and biophase who just keep building bigger and more exciting things successfully, who become an eternal spring of exciting new adventure in capitalism content, and there's guys like MJ who are on a philosophical mission to save as many people as possible from a life of mediocrity, but maybe the guys simply managing their money pots on a private island just don't feel like what they do is action oriented enough to post?

 

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[SteveO]

And THAT'S my biggest tip! Just take action!!!

Amazing how many people don't take that most important step...

And that is exactly how I started. I kept asking this guy "what do I do first? How do I start?". He just kept repeating "just buy one", "just do it". I finally got the message and bought an apartment building. He just looked at me and said "was it that hard? "

 

[James Klymus]

I've noticed this too. Posts from 5-10 years ago and the members seemingly haven't interacted in years. It's always interesting, and kind of sad to see the intros from years ago, talking about how they're going to make this change and go a certain direction. Then under their user name years and years later it still reads "PARKED"

You're right, maybe life got in the way. Maybe it was a phase they went through. Maybe they have their own business that's generating them a good income and helping others. Maybe they became an intrapreneur at a company.

All I know is that for me personally, I will always try my best to come back here and contribute, no matter what happens in life. This is like the home base I always come back to no matter what.

 

[BizyDad]

Here are the usual reasons I don't post as much:

1. Don't feel like I have something I really want to share.
When I first joined I made a pact with myself to not waste anybody's time and to try to make every post as valuable as possible. It was the kind of mentality I hoped to receive in return.

2. Increasing number of low-value contributions
A lot of times when I click into a post that looks interesting it turns out to be something really stupid not worth reading or responding to and violates my expectations based on the pact from above.

3. Expectation of future free value based on past free value
Sometimes I wonder why past high-value contributors are expected to show up and provide more free value in the future. It's not like there's a box you check at sign up for "Legendary." We all start the same place with "Parked" and zero posts. Sometimes new people make GOLD posts. So why is a burden of expectation placed on people who've already contributed value that continues to hold value to this day?

4. It sucks when you share something and people don't use it
Whether it's a value-post or a response, it all takes time and energy and when people repeatedly disregard advice they asked for, or get hyped and praise suggestions from a post and then disappear, it's kind of draining. It's also disheartening to watch some who are so motivated go through their failures, especially those who throw in the towel.

5. Misalignment of values
Sometimes I don't feel like my values align with the forum. A lot of people see Fastlane as the creation of a multi-million dollar business with an exit plan. I mainly enjoy the process of creating passive systems that cover my expenses and free my time while I do what I want.

Also, I'm a *figure it out on my own* kind of guy and there's a lot of whiny, needy people who show up and want their hand held.

Man, I love all of this.

Especially this...

5. Misalignment of values
Sometimes I don't feel like my values align with the forum. A lot of people see Fastlane as the creation of a multi-million dollar business with an exit plan. I mainly enjoy the process of creating passive systems that cover my expenses and free my time while I do what I want.

Also, I'm a *figure it out on my own* kind of guy and there's a lot of whiny, needy people who show up and want their hand held.

I love the passive model you got going. I also don't aspire to big exits, I want monthly recurring as passive as possible.

Hey everybody, look at this @Lex DeVille 's reaction score!!! (yes this merits 3 !'s)

For fun, I've been looking at the ratio of reactions to posts of various commenters, most good posters have a 3/1 ratio. Lex's is MORE THAN TWICE that. Over 6/1. Wow.

When he says he only posts when he has value to add, he ain't joking and he ain't b.s.ing. The numbers don't lie.

Hey Lex, thanks for doing what you do...

 

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[Andy Black]

4. It sucks when you share something and people don't use it
Whether it's a value-post or a response, it all takes time and energy and when people repeatedly disregard advice they asked for, or get hyped and praise suggestions from a post and then disappear, it's kind of draining. It's also disheartening to watch some who are so motivated go through their failures, especially those who throw in the towel.

This doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I try to point people in a/the right direction and move on. If they come back having had an aha moment then I’m pleasantly surprised. If not I’ve actually forgotten about it. I hope that doesn’t sound harsh. I care, but I try not to care more than the people I’m trying to help.

 

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[csalvato]

5. Misalignment of values
Sometimes I don't feel like my values align with the forum. A lot of people see Fastlane as the creation of a multi-million dollar business with an exit plan. I mainly enjoy the process of creating passive systems that cover my expenses and free my time while I do what I want.

I go in and out of contributing here - going from posting every day, down to not posting more than a few times a year and back again. Most of the time, it's because of a misalignment.

But my misalignment is the total opposite of yours. My focus is on building a huge, massive business that has massive impact (and thus scale in the tens or hundreds of millions or more) within a few years. Like @Ravens_Shadow, I want to build an empire with staff.

I feel like most of the forum is looking to build a multi-million dollar business, at most, then have an exit so they can live the dream. Or they are looking to set up smaller passive revenue streams to cover a lifestyle (not too dissimilar from 4HWW).

Funny how we have two very different perspectives on the same thing! Since we both have very different views, we're probably both wrong, and the true answer is in the middle.

The other source of my misalignment tends to come from feeling like many people who are highly regarded are actually harmful. Whenever one group of harmful gurus churns out, another new guard seems to be building up.

I don't want to name names, but I have my predictions on a small group of people who are having posts marked as GOLD and getting Legendary Contributor badges who will soon be exiled. I find this wears on me more than anything else.

 

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[LuckyPup]

I've been reading through some old threads from around 2014. Multi-page GOLD and NOTABLE threads with people posting every day like maniacs dropping value bombs like nobody's business.

Every now and then I check the user's profile and see that they haven't logged on in months or even years. It's like they just stopped coming here or gave up on the Fastlane dream altogether. Maybe life just got in the way, had kids, or found a job they were happy with?

Even gold contributors, people who showed up daily, took action, hustled and gave back to the community like a family...it's just...a bummer...

I would've liked to talk to these guys and gals back in the day!

I can't speak for anyone else, but my activity on here cycles. Like most people, it depends on what's happening irl.

 

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[BizyDad]

One of my goals is to make a gold post some day.

TFF Fam forever. I believe in you @BellaPippin

 

[Andy Black]

5. Misalignment of values
Sometimes I don't feel like my values align with the forum. A lot of people see Fastlane as the creation of a multi-million dollar business with an exit plan. I mainly enjoy the process of creating passive systems that cover my expenses and free my time while I do what I want.

This is what I like doing too. I actually think the majority of people here want to cover expenses working for themselves, free up their time to work on their own clock, and will figure out the rest when they get there. In my case, I’m having too much fun making stuff happen that exits aren’t even in my vocabulary.

 

[Andy Black]

my advice to anyone new here would be to make the most out of the current successful people who help and give advice - reach out to them, don't be upset or hurt if they dont reply, they're probably busy, but if you reach out enough you'll be surprised at the information you get - just use that information.

Try not to reach out to ask questions that are answered already.

On that note, try not to ask questions that have already been answered - without first trying to find the answers yourself.


Here’s a secret tip. (Shhh... don’t tell anyone.)

Take action on posts people have taken time to create. Then come back and thank them, making sure to explain *how* it’s helped you. You’ve no idea how this motivates people who create content to help others.


Some lines to think of:

“Catch them when they’re good.”

“Reward the behaviour you want to see more of.”

“Be the change you want to see in the world.”

“Give thanks.” <—- Bet you never thought of that phrase in that light. You’ve heard of “You need to give to receive” right? Well, “giving thanks” is the easiest thing to give, and it’s what makes the world turn.

 

[broswoodwork]

my views are tending to diverge from a lot of the younger and less experienced posters

Sounds like a common theme.

How can we newer guys get under the seasoned veterans skin less, so we don't miss out on what you guys have to offer?

I think most of us are a bit stubborn and setting our own trajectory to some degree, but it's definitely counterproductive for us to be chasing away folks who actually know what they're talking about.

 

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[GrayCode]

5. Misalignment of values
Sometimes I don't feel like my values align with the forum. A lot of people see Fastlane as the creation of a multi-million dollar business with an exit plan. I mainly enjoy the process of creating passive systems that cover my expenses and free my time while I do what I want.

Also, I'm a *figure it out on my own* kind of guy and there's a lot of whiny, needy people who show up and want their hand held.

I agree with all 4 of your points. This 5th one speaks to me though. I noticed when I first 'drank the kool-aid' of 'The Fastlane' after reading the book. I saw million dollar exits too.

But as I got older (a whopping 28 now), I realized it was the journey and the pursuit of building systems that just keep growing. 2, 3, 4, 10 passive systems over time that contribute into a money-pot that contributes in its own right.

You realize that you don't need a 100m dollar exit or to focus on only things that will be 100m+ dollar companies. You just have to be creative enough to keep increasing that monthly cash-flow stream.

At the end of the day, there isn't much you can't do if you're at $20k per month and growing. Especially if you know yourself and what you want. Ala' that thread @Johnny boy posted the other day.

Edit: Adding thread I mentioned so there is a proper flow of information for other forum users.
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/1-986-words-on-happiness-clarity-speed-introversion-attachment-and-confidence.92126/#post-834292

 

[broswoodwork]

 

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[Vadim26]

Agree with all the reasons @MJ DeMarco mentioned.

To add, I believe some stay here just for the sake of making $$$ and leave the forum to enjoy it.

“Who needs that Fastlane forum if I made it?”

Nope.

Because that would just lead to the very argument and debates that I'm trying to avoid.

Okay, here's one example of a personal belief that's controversial around here (and I'm not looking to expand on it or argue it, as there are plenty of other threads where I've discussed it in more detail):

I'm a big believer that formal education is often worthwhile, and that for many people, the "fastlane" is not an optimal financial path. Some people just don't have the motivation, the work ethic and/or the intellectual capacity. In fact, for many people, I could provide a slowlane plan that is much, much more likely to generate millions dollars than going the entrepreneur route. And even for those who prefer to go the entrepreneur route, I believe you're much more likely to be successful if you're willing to formalize your business education, at least to some extent.

These are very controversial statements around here that have gotten me a lot of hate in the past.

But, as someone who knows literally hundreds of people with 7-, 8- 9-, and 10-figure net worths (and as someone who alternatively knows literally hundreds of people who have have tried to achieve entrepreneurial success and have so-far failed), I've seen what tends to work and what doesn't work. I've seen the commonalities and divergences in the paths these people have taken. I see the differences between those have succeeded and failed. Both in terms of their process and their personalities.

Twenty years ago I could guess at the things that make great entrepreneurs. Today, I actually have some qualitative and empirical data. Based on my experiences and my network, I believe I'm a lot more qualified today to claim I know what leads certain people to entrepreneurial success.

I realize how naive I was 20 years ago, and I see some of that among younger aspiring entrepreneurs on this forum. When I state my views based on my experience, I get a lot of people who argue with me as I would likely have argued with me 20 years ago when I was a lot more naive...

Don’t know about you guys, but I’m personally going to get mentored by @JScott by reading all the messages he left on the forum for the next 50-100 days. That would be reading around 40 to 80 messages a day (average newspaper page).

I’d like to find out what’s his opinion on formal education, why it might the better path than “Fastlane” for some people (despite the sea of information out there). And also what is the criteria that he mentions to figure out if you’ve got the potential OR if you don’t ... how to make it work.


Got me very intrigued there.

 

[Andy Black]

Don’t know how to get in contact with them since they don’t log in anymore.

I think @ZCP meant “Why don’t you chatter with the folks in the forum now that you would wish you’d done so if they left?”.

 

[Andy Black]

Another tip if you want people (anyone!) to not shut up and bugger off:

Stop with the “Yes, but”.

There’s nothing more tiring than someone who finds problems for every solution.

This thread might help:

• Yes, but

 

[broswoodwork]

Here is the absolute minimum I would recommend in terms of accounting and financial education for any business owner (or aspiring business owner):

- Learn to read a Balance Sheet. This is the best long-term measure of your business health and success. I would recommend picking a dozen or so medium and large public companies, and looking at their balance sheets. That will give you a decent idea of what's on them, how they vary, what they tell you about how the company operates and where it's value comes from, etc.

- Learn to create your own Net Worth Statement (Personal Financial Statement). This is basically your personal Balance Sheet. And like the Balance Sheet, it is the best long-term measure of your personal financial health and success. Create yours and update it at least once a quarter (I update mine weekly).

- Learn to read a Profit and Loss Statement (P&L). This is the best indication of the profitability of your company, and will give you an indication of how efficiently your company is being run (and where it's not as efficient as it should be).

- Get your business in QuickBooks. You don't have to be a QB guru -- just hire a decent bookkeeper to set up your books and teach you how to enter the most common transactions you'll encounter in your business (you can "memorize" those transactions to make them very easy to enter). Worst case, spend $100-200/month to get your bookkeeper to enter the tough transactions for you. But, having all your books in QB will allow you to easily see your own Balance Sheet and P&L.

- Learn how to calculate Gross Margins. This is an indication of how efficiently you're creating your product or providing your service. Once your business is in QB, it's easy to calculate your gross margins. Then, figure out what the gross margins are for your leading competitors (or big companies in your space), and compare yours to theirs. If yours are much lower, figure out what you can do to increase your margins (it may just require scale, but this is important to know). If your gross margins are much higher than your competitors, it's worthwhile to ask yourself whether your product/service is meeting the standards your customers will expect.

- Learn how to calculate Operating Margins. This is an indication of how efficiently your business is being run overall. Once your business is in QB, it's easy to calculate your operating margins. Then, figure out what the operating margins are for your leading competitors (or big companies in your space), and compare yours to theirs. If yours are much lower, figure out what your competitors are doing differently in terms of managing their business.

- Understand Cash Flow Management techniques. By far the biggest reason I see entrepreneurs struggle is due to short-term cash flow issues. Understanding how to forecast and manage cash flow will keep your business from hitting situations where it can't grow inventory and it can't grow revenue...or worse yet, where it can't meet its financial obligations.

- (Optional) Read the book Profit First, by Michael Michalowicz. If money and financial management of your business isn't something you're comfortable with, this book will give you a formula for ensuring that you generate profit in your business from day one. More experienced entrepreneurs may not be a fan of some of these techniques, but for new business owners, this book can be a game changer. Btw, Michalowicz is one of my favorite business authors (he has 5 books), and he was on my podcast a couple weeks ago...I think the episode is most definitely worth listening to.

In terms of getting your head around the financial aspects of your business, I would say that the above is the very minimum every entrepreneur or business owner should understand before (or while) jumping into business.

Into Evernote this post goes! Thank you so much.

 

[SteveO]

I've been secretly hoping for a post like this but have been too dumb to know what to ask for... "Umm, Mr. Rich Guy, how do I business?"

Hey, I know that one... you just do business... easy.

 

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