We are all KINGS!!! (Reclaiming Masculinity in the Modern Day)

[ChickenHawk]

For at least 20 years, probably more, men have been undervalued, ridiculed, and seriously taken for granted in just about every way. Today, they're the only people you can mock with impunity, stereotype, and blame for all the world's ills without recognizing the incredible contributions they've made to our safety, our comfort, our medical advancements, and so much more. When is the last time anyone told a guy to be proud of who he is? Of his masculinity? Or of his heritage, especially if there isn't any diversity in his family tree?

I do think men need to reclaim their masculinity. But women (and society) need to do a better job of appreciating men for the many wonderful things they bring to the table.

IMO, we as a society should be ashamed of the messages we're sending our young men in particular -- that they're not important, that they're somehow worth less than women, that they're somehow the root of all the problems in this world. Guys are seriously awesome, and I think it's time for them to receive a lot more appreciation for all the things they've done to make this world a wonderful place.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Vigilante]

@ChickenHawk arent you like... a lady? Although, pretty sure I've heard my mom get on this same soapbox

She's (@ChickenHawk) a traditional southern belle (regardless of her location). Her husband is fortunate to have her, and I would imagine the opposite is also true.

Southern belles are women who like to be women, and love men who like to be men. They find value in people, and don't buy into what Hollywood likes to pretend women should be. The hard core feminists have really distorted the strength, beauty, and honor that traditional women hold. Walking around with a vagina hat on your head while screaming about equality and baby killing doesn't make you a lady... it makes you a monster. Therein it becomes predictable that the people most attracted to those types of people are... other people walking around with vagina hats and nonsensical signs.

My wife and I have raised a girl, and are in mid stream of raising another. My oldest is beautiful, strong, smart, confident, tough, tender, kind, intelligent, self secure, and traditional. She married a guy that is a knight, who holds the door open for her because he should, and has encouraged her to chase her dreams.

I feel sorry for the screwed up kids of screwed up parents who convey messages from a distorted world view. That great social experiment has yet to fully reveal what warping an entire generations mind regarding sexual identity, gender strengths, and traditional values will mean towards the degradation of society. Take a look around you at the f*cked up world we now live in, and trace it towards the evolution of thought regarding traditional families and faith.

To most real men, there is nothing more attractive (not physically, but intellectually or intrinsically) than the values, worth, and character of a traditional southern belle. I know because I am married to one.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ChickenHawk]

@ChickenHawk arent you like... a lady? Although, pretty sure I've heard my mom get on this same soapbox

Yup. But I have a husband, brothers, and a son, and it angers me to see them disparaged due to their gender. Plus, IMO, the current imbalance isn't good for anyone, not even women for too many reasons to count. A related thought: The pendulum has swung so far anti-male that we're almost at risk for an over-correction, which would leave women worse off in the long run. It's kind of surprising to me that rabid man-haters can't see this.

 

[ChickenHawk]

For what it's worth, I think we've reached the peak (or near-peak) of male-bashing. As a gen-Xer, I was raised to be a feminist, and embraced that ideology, back when I thought it meant seeking compromises and equal opportunity for both genders. For example, when my husband and I had our child, it was my husband, not me, who quit his job to stay home, because my job was more secure and thus, offered more stability for our family. We were partners, looked at our resources, and allocated them the best we could, even if it defied traditional gender roles.

But honestly, seeing all the misery that "feminism" has wrought, especially over the last few years, I'd never call myself a feminist today, even though I still support compromises and equal opportunities (not to be confused with guaranteed equal results.)

Here's my theory: I think that Baby Boomer women, in general (not all of them, of course), don't like or appreciate men very much. These women still hold a large sway over our culture. The next generation, Gen-X (women like me) were raised to be feminists, told that we didn't need men, and often informed that we were probably better off without men at all. But we've seen firsthand the dysfunction that results. Our brothers have been abused, our sons are in danger, and women are working harder than ever for a lifestyle that leaves us emptier and more frazzled than our WW2 Grandparents.

A few months ago, my sister said to me, "Why did mom teach us to hate men so much? Why didn't she teach us love and appreciate them?" Eh, maybe it was just society back then. But if you look at trends, we're seeing signs that the pendulum could be swinging back in the other direction. Today, fewer women identify as feminists. More women are choosing to stay home with their kids. College-educated gen-Xers have a lower divorce rate than their boomer counterparts. And speaking for my Gen-X peers, I just don't see the same male-bashing that I saw as a child when my boomer aunts got together.

A good sign? I sure hope so, because it seems to me that male-bashing couldn't get much worse.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MidwestLandlord]

Many men are afraid to show too much emotions because they are afraid of being seen as weak.

I actually see the exact opposite of this more often than not. I've seen tons of guys follow women around like lost puppies and beg for affection, show too much emotion, and just generally being a whiny bitch.

"Maybe if I'm her personal taxi, pay for all her food, hold her when she's upset, and like all her posts on facebook she'll one day go out with me!"

"I gave her my heart, soul, everything! and she still won't go out with me! Wah!!"

Bleh.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Besides, I find it hilarious you think people would look out for each other while promoting a wild west economic model where everyone is out for themselves.

Watch this.

And after you're done watching and you start to type a response, STOP. And then watch it again.

And BTW, you are NOT charitable by being charitable with other people's money. It's theft -- so please, get off your damn high horse.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

Share some experiences some fastlaners may have with growing up without a father or (GOOD) father figure in the house.

I personally had an absent father and my mother would make me feel ashamed for expressing my natural state in a way.

I've said about as much as I will about my mother on an open forum, earlier in this thread. My father wasn't absent BTW.

But since this epic thread is about reclaiming masculinity, I'll chime in on that I suppose (good job on the thread topic @Spicymemer45 )

I think the key to "reclaiming masculinity" is to see through the bullshit. After that, you can decide what being a man means to you.

But, you have to see through societies version of "being a man" first, realize the falsehoods that are fed to you since birth, and move past them.

Just off the top of my head:

"Be a nice guy"
"Be a player"
"Slowlane"
"Don't be selfish"
"Get married or you'll be a lonely old man"
"ADHD"
"Toxic masculinity"

From mainstream media saying women love nice guys, to PUA websites saying if you aren't banging 100 women a year you're a loser, to doctor's putting little boys on Ritalin, to men being told to "settle down, stop being selfish, and get married or you'll be lonely", and of course, "get a stable job!"...

...it's all complete and utter bullshit.

MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICES.

Be responsible for those choices, and hold yourself accountable to making choices that allow you to live the life YOU WANT.

Not what some faceless shmuck said on some website somewhere, or your mother whom I'm sure means well, or your sister, or whomever.

We all have our pasts. We all have our story. But none of us can change the past.

But we all have our futures too, and that future is made up of our choices. Some of us will allow society to choose for us, and then play victim when things go wrong. Some of us will take control, make our own choices, and then own those choices.

This topic pushes some serious buttons for me, sorry for the rant. But the TL;DR is:

MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICES.

Don't allow society to make your choices for you.
Don't allow your past to make your choices for you.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

If someone is unable to work, becomes disabled and has no value to offer, what then? According to capitalism that person is worthless and might aswell be dead because they have nothing to give to the market.

That's where I have a problem with what you're talking about.

Being gifted simply means being born into better circumstances, or being more talented, having certain strengths and weaknesses that fits what society is looking for etc.

I wasn't complaining about that, I'm just pointing out that although life will never be fair, that shouldn't stop us from making society as fair as possible.

In your view, we should go the opposite direction and create a bigger gap between people because "I'm here to win".

There you go again spinning the argument like a good alinskyite. You seriously just accused capitalists of believing that people who can't work should just be dead. You can't honestly believe that my capitalist views mean I wish death on disabled people... Can you? Your argument is assinine.

Of course the market isn't the only thing that matters. If someone needs to be taken care of, a capitalist business environment let's those who do work keep more of what they work so hard for. You, me and everyone else that works would have a much better ability to take care of our loved ones, friends and church family when they physically can't take care of themselves.

Would things get worse for the lazy, yes, and I believe it should. We shouldn't be subsidizing laziness in this country. You subsidize something so that you get more of it. Laziness is not something I want more of. Personal responsibility would have a much higher level of importance.

To also call my argument "backwards" is also back handed and ridiculous. That I want to somehow widen a gap between rich and poor as if that is my unitary goal. That also implies that "forwards" is a governmentally controlled flatter pay range. If you look far enough back, your way is actually backwards. I want to let the market decide the value for a good or service. Where a good is worth what someone will pay for it. Your labor is worth what someone will pay for it. That is bad for people that don't deserve what they are paid and good for people who deserve more.

If you are going to get another response from me you need to drop the Bernie Sanders angry arm flailing that works on the college campuses and put forth a compelling argument and a debatable response.

You didn't answer my question...

Giving an outright advantage to minorities and women... What do you think about that? Do you think that is fair? To who?

 

[MidwestLandlord]

Yup. But I have a husband, brothers, and a son, and it angers me to see them disparaged due to their gender.

I hope you have a daughter as well, or other young women in your life that can learn from you. There are many women that think the way you do, buy y'all are definitely the minority.

Thank you for your words in this thread, very refreshing to read.

@ChickenHawk arent you like... a lady? Although, pretty sure I've heard my mom get on this same soapbox

She's the exact opposite of my mother haha.

"I can't believe I brought another evil man into this world" <---exact words from my mother starting when I was about 5 years old.



I bought her a house and car, cause again...evil.

 

[Kak]

When we did the premarital counseling thing at Church before we got married, the pastor brought up a very valuable and interesting point to us.

-Women seek security above most else.
-Men seek respect.

We both looked at each other and said he nailed it.

This has been something that has been very helpful to us in better understanding each other.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

I changed my avatar in the spirit of this discussion.

 

[Vigilante]

The american society is a farce nowadays and we can thank the advent of extreme feminism (which is entirely hypocritical to begin with) and the unforunate power of the "p" to the demise of the modern day heterosexual american red blooded man. He has to deal not only with work pressure, financial pressure and physical stresses but also that of the opposite sex, status, etc etc he cannot focus; how many worthy men have lost it all due to divorce or due to failed relationships or how many attempted to become an entrepreneur only to be curtailed by a gf or spouse that did not approve? If its always been about control then women have completely controlled men for the best 15-20 years or so... Part of me is grateful trump has grabbed em by the "labia major" because god knows what would have happened if hil-dog won.... sheeeshh

This is the direction I knew you overly testosterone laced sexually repressed misogenic children would take this thread.

The forum has rules and the last page of posts violated several. This interesting topic is now relegated to the dust heap of forum history with footnotes of those incapable of posting without wrecking it.

The value of opinions exchanged was good, especially from the OP and @ChickenHawk specifically, and in their defense I am halting the juvenile direction you frat boys and women haters are headed in.

You've lived up to my expectations, unfortunately.

Thread closed unless one of the other mods wants to take the time to clean it up.

 

[Brian C.]

@Ayanle Farah You've done nothing but derail two positive (inevitably Gold) threads on the forum today here today.

Arguing over which fallacy is which is rooted in your need to be "right" instead of being constructive.

I thought you might've gotten the point after SL asked you to withdraw from posting on his progress thread, but you clearly didn't.

I don't give a shit which "fallacy" you're trying to explain. Every post you continue to make here departs further and further from the OP, and it's about time you stop.

Some would argue the only reason men alone were able to make contributions to safety, comfort and advancement is because women were oppressed and never given a chance to.

And it's not even your dissenting view! We welcome a variety of opinions (even if rooted in the victim mentality).

Let's get back on track, quit bickering, and be constructive.

 

[Spicymemer45]

(Before I begin, this is in the form of a book called "The 4 Archetypes of Man" - By Carl Jung

Throughout all of human existence, a king watches his domain as it grows over the Earth.

(What a business Clichè)

I have struggled with the aspect of who I am as a man throughout my young life due to the absence of my father, a event many men can relate to in this day.

My mother did her best but it's difficult to teach something that's simply natural when it isn't natural to someone. The "Mentoring" aspect applies to this as well, a father raises up his son to be a man (or not), as we also seek assistance in TFLF.

We all see the problem. How to fix it with the 4 Archetypes of Man

1.) The KING

- The king in his fullness orders and blesses. Lording over his Kingdom, the King works for the prosperity of himself and his people, blessing those who have earned such and punishing/ignoring the cowards and plotters.

2.) The Lover
- Emotions are a scale between passive bliss and indulgent destruction, a balance of full presence does a man well. To fully be engaged in life and his surroundings and to savor the present, the now. The now is all we are guaranteed. This is applicable in all areas of life (Sex, Romance, Work)

3.) The WARRIOR
- Men have the "nose to the grind" mentality when it comes to work that they're passionate about. We turn off the emotions and get in the dirt, we have the ability to become killers, relentless in action and pursuit.

4.) The Magician
Like MJ said in his book, an idea is the speedometer, you are the accelerator. The Magician uses his specialized knowledge in combine with the Warrior to accomplish his goals and bless the populace with his knowledge and his works!

I hope this post helped alot

Cheers!- Grayson. J

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Fox]

For at least 20 years, probably more, men have been undervalued, ridiculed, and seriously taken for granted in just about every way. Today, they're the only people you can mock with impunity, stereotype, and blame for all the world's ills without recognizing the incredible contributions they've made to our safety, our comfort, our medical advancements, and so much more. When is the last time anyone told a guy to be proud of who he is? Of his masculinity? Or of his heritage, especially if there isn't any diversity in his family tree?

I do think men need to reclaim their masculinity. But women (and society) need to do a better job of appreciating men for the many wonderful things they bring to the table.

IMO, we as a society should be ashamed of the messages we're sending our young men in particular -- that they're not important, that they're somehow worth less than women, that they're somehow the root of all the problems in this world. Guys are seriously awesome, and I think it's time for them to receive a lot more appreciation for all the things they've done to make this world a wonderful place.

Should be a featured post in my opinion. This is a great message for the younger guys on here.

@Andy Black @MJ DeMarco @Vigilante

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Thread reopened, try keeping it in line with the spirit of the original thread starter, who BTW, is a woman.

Thanks ...

And please, don't make me use the "banned from thread" function.

 

[Fox]

According to capitalism that person is worthless and might aswell be dead

 

[MJ DeMarco]

but there is no point if you can't hold a debate.

You didn't engage in a debate. I notice you didn't comment on my video. You ignore arguments, use strawman fallacies, generalization, and conjecture. I'm sure if it continued it would degrade into name calling using one of any of the "-ists" (racist, sexist, misogynist) -- you're a typical SJW and I'm not sure why you are even here.

My guess is your idea of "fair" is YOUR view, or whatever bureaucrat you elect.

..I guess I better leave then.

You're welcome to stay and possibly learn something. Like possibly, learn how to build a business so impactful, you feel compelled to give away everything you earn, beyond the 39.6% + 10% that was already taken.

Or, you can leave --- the victimology BS you learned in college doesn't fly here.

My apologies for the thread hijack.

We are all kings! And each of us should be entitled to basic pay, free college, unlimited healthcare, and a shiny unicorn on Christmas. We kings!

Back on topic.

 

[G-Man]

My son has an internship with my company right now, and he is the fastest study I have ever seen. He understands business strategy concepts that are hard to teach.

I never really thought of it until you posted that but yeah... I guess he does have an innate advantage.

One of the things I love about the fastlane worldview is the emphasis on not blaming others for your situation. That said, some of us have advantages others don't, and it's an important part of the human experience to be mindful of and grateful for those things.

I'm truly blessed that I had two parents at home and their relationship was functional and respectful. It gave me a leg up in life that I can't really take credit for.

 

[Kak]

I was talking about this thread with my wife. She brought up a point I had never considered before...

When women are the "first" to do something or when women do something really amazing or notable, this rabid feminism has created an environment that honors them for being a woman that did those things and not just honoring the achievement. She is annoyed by it. She says you either achieved something or you didn't.

Then we went on to discuss the race division in this country as well. The first Hispanic to do X, black businessman of the year... This kind of crap does a disservice to the very people who achieved something. The funny thing is, the so called minority is actually the majority and it's a super majority of you count the white guilt folks.

If someone achieves something after being handed an advantage to begin with via things like hiring quotas or affirmative action did they really achieve anything notable anyway?

Just an interesting post I thought would add to the conversation.

 

[G-Man]

A delivery guy holding a can of bear mace walking towards ground zero?

This is the fedex driver that got a burning flag away from protestors, I think. Basically the most manly thing to happen this week.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ChickenHawk]

Some would argue the only reason men alone were able to make contributions to safety, comfort and advancement is because women were oppressed and never given a chance to.

Maybe. Maybe not. But why does it matter? It doesn't change the fact that men have contributed greatly to many wonderful things that we now take for granted, and that mocking, vilifying, or undervaluing people for their gender does everyone a disservice.

As far as women being oppressed, very few women (in Western countries, at least) have experienced any real oppression during their lifetimes. Isn't it time to work together rather than tearing each other down? See, IMO, this is part of the problem. I say, "men deserve some credit," and someone chimes in to imply that these achievements somehow don't count, because women didn't have the opportunity.

To that, I say "So what?" It doesn't change the fact that men have achieved some pretty amazing things and deserve encouragement and inspiration, too.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Fox]

I have been fortunate enough to live in a few different cultures and I have been a lot happier where there was a strong polar difference between masculinity and femininity. I currently live in Colombia and really appreciate the women for how they are - beautiful, attentive and caring. They are also super emotional and usually very ambitious. I don't need or want my women to be the exact same as me but that doesn't make them any less of a person.

It is a better deal for both parties - having a truly feminine woman in my life pushes me more as a man. I want to protect them, treat them and enjoy them for who they are. I work harder and feel more focused. They get to enjoy me as a man too. I allow them the freedom and security to fully express themselves too. Time together is great and the relationships are amazing.

I find it hard to have the same connect with girls in North America. There might be attraction but the connection is not as strong. Usually in the "west" I end up dating girls who are a 1st or 2nd generation immigrant from a more traditional country. This isn't about education or equal rights - I have dated many girls who are more educated, successful and wealth than me (and less) - it is about balance. Just like how you would do better with a business partner who has strengths in different areas I want a relationship where both people compliment each other rather than compete.

 

[G-Man]

"I can't believe I brought another evil man into this world" <---exact words from my mother starting when I was about 5 years old.

Wow. Rough. My mom is old school. I still remember her lecturing one of the young stay at home moms at our church about how disrespectful it was to her husband not to keep a clean house, and how she needed to take being a mother seriously, like a 24 hr a day job.

I got very lucky and married a woman that thinks the same way.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

Wow. Rough.

Haha, yeah.

I spent enough of my life looking in that rear-view mirror though, it's windshield all the way now!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Vigilante]

I'm married to a traditional Louisiana girl myself. I definitely understand the appeal. I honestly think if I went all progressive and started changing the diapers and doing the housework, she wouldn't even think of me as a man anymore

I still consider myself lucky, though, because my parents marriage is very traditional and stable so I knew what to look for. It's just like the advantage a kid would have if he grew up with parents that have the fast lane mindset.

My son has an internship with my company right now, and he is the fastest study I have ever seen. He understands business strategy concepts that are hard to teach.

I never really thought of it until you posted that but yeah... I guess he does have an innate advantage.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

It's all opinion so there is no objective fairness, It depends on how you look at it. However, I think everyone would agree that fairness comes down to keeping societal promises and giving everyone a chance to make something of themselves.

It's quite simple in theory.

Agreed.

My point to all of this and so that @KLaw doesn't die of anxiousness, is that fairness is totally objective, as you have said.

Countries all over the world have established their own version of fair. My version would look a lot like laissez-faire capitalism, where no matter what your race or gender you can prove your competence and value to the market in exchange for wealth. You can also prove your worthlessness and therefore end up worse off than a CEO. So what? That doesn't bother me at all. The more we try to create fairness, the less fair I believe it gets.

Women and minorities currently have more access to resources and opportunities that make them valuable in the United States. That deviates from my laissez-faire views. That is not how I would have it. In other words, yes this country is unfair in my opinion. But not in the ways the femminists or the race groups want to portray it.

Do I care? No. Life isn't fair. I'm not here to bitch. I'm here to win.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ChickenHawk]

Feminism has so many different connotations. In the end it is all about respect.

True. But respect should go both ways. Also, before anyone can (or should) respect you, you need to be worthy of respect. Respect should't be a participation trophy, where everyone gets it just because they're a gal, or a guy for that matter.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MidwestLandlord]

The only role I care about is mine. -And my only role is progressing my life in the direction I want to take it. I get called selfish for that.

That's the only way to live IMO. I'm selfish and I make no apologies for it.

For some that includes a spouse, for others it doesn't...it's all good.

Society confuses me on a daily basis.

You and me both.

 

[Mattie]

Do you believe women are oppressed in the US today? Just wondering.

I believe women have freedom in the U.S., and as a woman, I don't feel I have any less opportunities as a man in America. Women have freedom to speak their voice, wear whatever they choose to wear, believe what they choose to believe, be educated, marry who they would like, and from working with non-profits in the community, I can say they get more help then men do. Such as programs like parenting, domestic abuse, medical care, psychological assistance, clothing, financial assistance, and food. They are much better off than a man is in our society. Men are more left to fend for themselves if they get in trouble. That was just my experience working in social services and non-profits.

I believe the U.S. doesn't really care whether you are a female, male, or a child. It's survival of the fittest, and women wanted equality, they have it by all means. They just might not like having to work and carry the full load. I mean if you want to be a liberated women, and complain then it's just like Entrepreneurship, get rid of your scarcity mindset, victimhood, and take personal responsibility for your actions. I believe women speak their voice all the time in America. It's more about dominance, power, control, and manipulation. It doesn't really make sense to me to listen to women complaining about the things they do, because they have more freedom in America, than other countries.

If they're in domestic violence or in poverty, it's simply because they haven't self-actualized and taken their personal power back, and still caught up in the ego thinking they're more special then men because they're a women. These are more personal self-worth, self-esteem issues, versus in actuality of what rights and freedoms they have. They may be uneducated, and ignorant of facts and the big-picture, or swinging to much into ridiculous statements about being a women and how it's all unfair. Women can't complain about being exploited, if they're choosing to participate in certain communities, cultures, and lifestyles. That's just common sense, to understand they're creating the experience, and learning whatever it is they hope to gain from the experience at the time. Women have choices, so they can't blame any man in the U.S. why they think, feel, and act the way they do.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.