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RANT Watching a Trainwreck

Strategery

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At my family's business/my slowlane job, (I've discussed this in another thread) we have an employee who I'll call Roy. I've known Roy for a very long time. He's 56. He works hard. He's a good dude. And he's a drunk.

He took last Saturday off, and stayed drunk from Friday until Monday. He walked over (he lives on the property) to the office Monday morning to tell my dad that he was too drunk to work. Yesterday his wife texted me and said they were in the ER. His blood pressure was 200/110. Big surprise, he had stayed drunk on Monday, too.

I spoke with him this morning. He said he thought that he was going to die yesterday...he was sure of it. He took a long drag from his cigarette and said, "I'm done drinking. Never again." I smiled and encouraged him. It was hard to listen to his bullshit.

He called my brother to tell him about something going on at the business a while ago. My brother said he was drunk again.

I fear the next few years are going to be very unpleasant for him. He simply refuses to make any positive change for himself. I'm not sure how to go about helping him, especially if he can't even make an effort. I feel like I'm just going to helplessly watch until he just doesn't show up for work one morning, and never does again.

Sorry if this bums anyone out, I just really don't know how to help him, and don't feel like I have anyone to talk to about it.
 

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msufan

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Could it be almost a sort of enabling to allow him to keep his job? Could the ultimate kindness be your family firing him but keeping a spot open for him if he could get some help for his alcoholism?
 
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Strategery

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Could it be almost a sort of enabling to allow him to keep his job? Could the ultimate kindness be your family firing him but keeping a spot open for him if he could get some help for his alcoholism?
I like the proactivity of this strategy.

Edit: I worry that maybe this would push him into a deeper depression? He's considered suicide many years ago.
 

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Could it be almost a sort of enabling to allow him to keep his job? Could the ultimate kindness be your family firing him but keeping a spot open for him if he could get some help for his alcoholism?
Seems to me like the fastest way to accelerate the train wreck.
Would probably exacerbate his BP and drinking issues.
Isn't there a way for his family to check him into some rehab of some sort, and keep him attending till he's gotten some improvement?
A slight hint of a threat at firing him may provide them the impetus to seek for help (like telling him/them it would be affecting his job too much for the business to cope with if he keeps drinking unabatedly), but I don't think firing him right now would help his condition.
 
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Strategery

Strategery

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Isn't there a way for his family to check him into some rehab of some sort, and keep him attending till he's gotten some improvement?
His family consists of a son who lives several hours away (I've never met him), and his girlfriend who lives with him. His gf drives him around while he's drunk, I feel like she is nothing but an enabler.
 

Sandholdt

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You can't help a drunk if he's not ready to let go himself. Simple as that.

It is a sickness, and if he himself is ready to get over it, he need help from professionals. The only way you can be of real help is, if he's ready, to help him into rehab.

I won't say you're enabling him, as drunks will always find a way to get the alcohol. Either through money earned from work, or through money "earned" someway else - Begging, robbing etc.

If I were in your position I'd help him if he's ready or simply cut the ties if he isn't.
 

Primeperiwinkle

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Could it be almost a sort of enabling to allow him to keep his job? Could the ultimate kindness be your family firing him but keeping a spot open for him if he could get some help for his alcoholism?
This is a very kind post. Ultimately he has to hit rock bottom or he won’t decide to change. At this point if he goes w/o alcohol he’ll probably become very ill.

@Strategery you gotta do what you will feel peace with. It’s frustrating not being able to help someone.
 
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Strategery

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You can't help a drunk if he's not ready to let go himself. Simple as that.

It is a sickness, and if he himself is ready to get over it, he need help from professionals. The only way you can be of real help is, if he's ready, to help him into rehab.

I won't say you're enabling him, as drunks will always find a way to get the alcohol. Either through money earned from work, or through money "earned" someway else - Begging, robbing etc.

If I were in your position I'd help him if he's ready or simply cut the ties if he isn't.
I completely agree with you. I just can't stand the helplessness I feel though. Maybe it's a little selfish of me to expect anything from him. I just can't imagine doing that to myself. Just say F*ck it and give up.
 

Thoelt53

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An alcoholic has to want to get sober in order to stop drinking. It’s a monumental process that will involve detox and some form of rehab or AA/SMART program. He could look into the Sinclair Method as well.

Does he drink every day? During the day? Liquor or beer?
 
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Strategery

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Does he drink every day? During the day? Liquor or beer?
He doesn't drink during the day, but he's hungover often. He came in to work drunk once when I was in charge, and I sent him home. He didn't try that again, thankfully. He drinks liquor and beer.
 

Genius01

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His family consists of a son who lives several hours away (I've never met him), and his girlfriend who lives with him. His gf drives him around while he's drunk, I feel like she is nothing but an enabler.
Hmmm.....difficult scenario.
Well I suggest you try and have a talk with him and his gf, in one of his sober moments, on the need to seek professional help ASAP, and hint at the significant possibility of him losing his job if he doesn't do so. And if you can reach his son on phone too, fantastic. They may be able to put enough pressure/encouragement on him to get him to seek help.
The possibility of losing his job may provide the impetus for them to seek help, (though I'm not too optimistic about that).
If after that, he still doesn't seek help or change, you may have to let him go, knowing you've tried to help him and it didn't work out.
There's only so much you can do for another person who's not motivated to help himself.
 

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Bertram

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Seems to me like the fastest way to accelerate the train wreck.
Would probably exacerbate his BP and drinking issues.
Isn't there a way for his family to check him into some rehab of some sort, and keep him attending till he's gotten some improvement?
A slight hint of a threat at firing him may provide them the impetus to seek for help (like telling him/them it would be affecting his job too much for the business to cope with if he keeps drinking unabatedly), but I don't think firing him right now would help his condition.
No, his behavior is far too serious and malevolant to be affected by warnings of disaster ahead. The only way to change someone heading straight for the wall is to continue to set an example.
The ideas of Jordan Peterson would really help the guy, but there's nothing that can be done if he is adamant about destroying himself.
Some content for those who find themselves in a corner and give up and are ready to experience tragedy:

What do you say to people who don't pursue their dreams?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN49uORrZIw


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OmC6LyO5QI
 
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Thoelt53

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Have a talk with him. He may in fact want to get sober, but doesn’t know where to turn for help, or is reluctant to face his demons. The path of least resistance for him is to just continue drinking. To get sober means he will have to confront the addict inside him. This addict part of him will put up a monumental fight and raise every excuse imaginable. Getting sober will be the hardest thing he will ever do in his life.

The safest bet for him is to detox in a facility as alcohol withdrawal can be fatal in severe cases without medication. Some ERs will also detox, but usually only if the patient is already well into withdrawal. He will need to follow up detox with some sort of program. He may have to try a few to find out what works for him. Tenacity is key here, just like in everything else.

All that being said, I must caution you: alcoholics are huge energy vampires and if you aren’t careful to keep your emotions in check, they can take you down with them. Unless you care about this man like a father, brother, or great friend I wouldn’t waste your time. Even then be leery as the odds are that he WILL slip, he WILL relapse, and he WILL let you down; it isn’t a matter of if, but when. Sobriety is a war he will fight every waking moment of every single day for the rest of his life.

But remember this is his war, not yours.
I had to let go of both parents due to alcoholism because they would have drowned me in the bottle with them otherwise.

Hats off to you for wanting to help this man. If you succeed in helping him it will be one of the best things you ever do.

Good luck.
 
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Bertram

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Have a talk with him. He may in fact want to get sober, but doesn’t know where to turn for help, or is reluctant to face his demons. The path of least resistance for him is to just continue drinking. To get sober means he will have to confront the addict inside him. This addict part of him will put up a monumental fight and raise every excuse imaginable. Getting sober will be the hardest thing he will ever do in his life.

The safest bet for him is to detox in a facility as alcohol withdrawal can be fatal in severe cases without medication. Some ERs will also detox, but usually only if the patient is already well into withdrawal. He will need to follow up detox with some sort of program. He may have to try a few to find out what works for him. Tenacity is key here, just like in everything else.

All that being said, I must caution you: alcoholics are huge energy vampires and if you aren’t careful to keep your emotions in check, they can take you down with them. Unless you care about this man like a father, brother, or great friend I wouldn’t waste your time. Even then be leery as the odds are that he WILL slip, he WILL relapse, and he WILL let you down; it isn’t a matter of if, but when. Sobriety is a war he will fight every waking moment of every single day for the rest of his life.

But remember this is his war, not yours.
I’ve had to let go of both parents due to alcoholism because they would drown me in the bottle with them otherwise.
This is excellent advice and more helpful for the guy than my previous suggestions.

These points would seriously help:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qszCTyK9tHk


Self-destruction ruins the lives of his loved ones. He has an ethical responsibility to stop being weak. Tell him he's not allowed to be weak.

Good luck to you.
 

Thoelt53

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No, his behavior is far too serious and malevolant to be affected by warnings of disaster ahead. The only way to change someone heading straight for the wall is to continue to set an example.
The ideas of Jordan Peterson would really help the guy, but there's nothing that can be done if he is adamant about destroying himself.
Some content for those who find themselves in a corner and give up and are ready to tragedy:

What do you say to people who don't pursue their dreams?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN49uORrZIw


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OmC6LyO5QI
He has a long ways to go to get to this point. But this part is critical.

At the root of his alcoholism is emptiness and unfulfillment which manifests, among other things, depression and eventually alcohol abuse. Depression and alcohol abuse is a perpetual downward cycle.

In order to become sober long term, alcoholics need to give their lives to something bigger than themselves whether that be God or a movement/cause of some sort.
 

MHP368

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Tell him about SMART recovery and REBT, like this

He won't get sober til he's good and ready but statistically speaking on any given year no matter what he does he has a 1 in 20 chance of quitting.

We've come a long ways with addiction recovery since the olden times of aa in 1936
 
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Strategery

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What do you say to people who don't pursue their dreams?
What do you say to people who don't even have a dream?

I'll talk with him today.
 
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Strategery

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This is excellent advice and more helpful for the guy than my previous suggestions.

These points would seriously help:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qszCTyK9tHk


Self-destruction ruins the lives of his loved ones. He has an ethical responsibility to stop being weak. Tell him he's not allowed to be weak.

Good luck to you.
Holy F*ck. That video hit me really hard!

Thanks everyone for your advice and the time you took to give it. Hopefully something will come of this, maybe he'll change. But my hopes aren't high.

He started his self-destruction long before I was even born.
 

Never1

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All good points above. Depending on labour laws in your state/province you need to be careful.

Firing someone due to an affliction/disability/addiction can get you into very big trouble. You need to take proper actions and accommodate and only after you’ve exhausted and properly documented all attempts to help them, you can pursue dismissal. Lawyer yo if you have such labour laws in your area
 
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Strategery

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All good points above. Depending on labour laws in your state/province you need to be careful.

Firing someone due to an affliction/disability/addiction can get you into very big trouble. You need to take proper actions and accommodate and only after you’ve exhausted and properly documented all attempts to help them, you can pursue dismissal. Lawyer yo if you have such labour laws in your area
While I'm influential in this business, the final decision for firing doesn't come down to me. But if the decision were to fire him, we'd only need to point to his previous absences (he's had quite a few) as the reasons for firing. I don't really want it to come to that though.
 

Never1

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While I'm influential in this business, the final decision for firing doesn't come down to me. But if the decision were to fire him, we'd only need to point to his previous absences (he's had quite a few) as the reasons for firing. I don't really want it to come to that though.
If the absences were caused by his addiction then there could be a huge legal issue on the part of the employer. I’ve had to deal with something similar at my prior business . It was a mess that I couldn’t get out of.
Of course it depends on the laws in your area
 

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SamRussell

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Sounds like he needs to ditch his girlfriend and live in your basement for 3 months so he can have some military style discipline to rewire his habits
 

broswoodwork

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As stated above, in almost all cases an alcoholic (or whatever term they ultimately settle on) isn't going to stop as a result of external social pressures short of jail, or death. Something needs to click internally. There has to be a bigger transformative "why?".

...

Speaking of problem drinking and since we're all here...

Any other former over-consumers of alcohol heading to the summit that want to maybe keep a friendly eye on each other?

There we go! For the first time in my forum history, I overshared. :D
 
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Strategery

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Something needs to click internally.
I know this is true, but I can't stop myself from wanting to "fix" him.

Any other former over-consumers of alcohol heading to the summit that want to maybe keep a friendly eye on each other?
I was a frat boy once upon a time lol... Not a problem for me now but I'll be happy to
 

Bertram

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He has a long ways to go to get to this point. But this part is critical.

At the root of his alcoholism is emptiness and unfulfillment which manifests, among other things, depression and eventually alcohol abuse. Depression and alcohol abuse is a perpetual downward cycle.
Holy F*ck. That video hit me really hard!

Thanks everyone for your advice and the time you took to give it. Hopefully something will come of this, maybe he'll change. But my hopes aren't high.

He started his self-destruction long before I was even born.
Every child dreams about the outcome of growing up. Not everyone thinks they deserve it.
Peterson says that everyone experiences not liking themselves and not quite liking life or knowing what the make of the fact that you have this life to live and it starts from very early years. The question is answered by the paths we choose. Or the dream is buried by poor decisions.
But many people simply don't choose and just hide the question from themselves for years and decades. That's when the impact can effectively destroy hope.

Very glad you liked the film.

These points seriously help:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qszCTyK9tHk
 
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Rabby

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Try not to let things that are outside your control deplete your energy. If you can't change it, don't let it affect you.

If there's anything at all you can do, maybe it's offering benefits to employees that include addiction help/counseling. However, you can't make them go, or even want to go.
 

Bertram

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Speaking of problem drinking and since we're all here...

Any other former over-consumers of alcohol heading to the summit that want to maybe keep a friendly eye on each other?

As stated above, in almost all cases an alcoholic (or whatever term they ultimately settle on) isn't going to stop as a result of external social pressures short of jail, or death. Something needs to click internally. There has to be a bigger transformative "why?".

...

Speaking of problem drinking and since we're all here...

Any other former over-consumers of alcohol heading to the summit that want to maybe keep a friendly eye on each other?

There we go! For the first time in my forum history, I overshared. :D
Yep.
Thanks for this. Will do.
As I'm most likely to be 25 years older than the average age of the Summit goers, my experience of "paying for it" following two evenings with Mr. Jim Beam will be a hard, hard lesson.
So I look forward to over-sharing Peterson-style as much as possible instead and make every drop of humanity count.
 

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Hypnotherapy

Get to the root cause of his problem and fix that.
 

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@Strategery Consider very seriously if you want to be responsible for him and take on the load that will likely be required to truly help him.

Everyone has a dream, even if they've forgotten it. Go back far enough into their past, even if to when they were children if necessary, to find it.

Serious alcoholics are full of pain. You will need to find the roots of his pain and help him address it. He doesn't drink because he wants to. He drinks so he doesn't kill himself. Probably.

Is he willing to endure the pain required to heal? If he isn't, then what can you really do?
 

QFP

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This you tube channel is interesting .
Fit Recovery
Some very good content the guy it belongs to had a very bad problem with drink and goes into plenty of depth about the subject.
I realise the are plenty of channels out there but this one impressed.
I wish your friend all the best of luck.
 

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