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Vegan / Vegetarians Only (Chat about lifestyle, opportunities, food, whatever...)

ZF Lee

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The SO makes a creamy potato, mushroom, and broccoli soup. I couldn't believe there was no dairy in it and she used some type of cashew thing. Naturally she didn't tell me what it was because I'm a finicky eater (gooey cashew mix just sounds plain gross) but it was better than the real thing. I ended up eating an entire vat of the stuff. Even better, I wasn't put into a dairy coma 30 minutes later.

EDIT: I moved some posts out of the Opportunity thread into here since this is more of a discussion of eating vegan or vegetarian.
I have found corn to be a great sweetener for soup as well. Even better than carrots.
You get that bright flavour for even a simple stew.

Speaking of dairy, can you take soy milk, @MJ DeMarco? If you can, I might recommend boiling sugar-free soy milk with a little water, plus chopped yam and sweet potato. Makes for a nice dessert or breakfast.
 
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Tommo

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South African family owned business Frys make great vegan pies, I swear they even put plant based gristle in them to make them more "real". I don't miss meat or even need meat replacements but if I am hungover (a rarity)I get an urge for non vegan food and the Frys brand does the trick.
 

biophase

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Was talking to a friend about college... I told him I'd look at volunteering instead. I came across this opportunity. To me, things like this are a no brainer. Work for 2 weeks including room and board for $1000. Imagine what you would learn here and what businesses you could start after you got back.

GoEco - Volunteer in Israel - Vegan Bakery Internship in Tel Aviv
 

amp0193

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Imagine what you would learn here and what businesses you could start after you got back.

When you're living the day to day routine, opportunities are hard to spot. Nothing pops out.

When you get out of your comfort zone, travel, and experience new things... this is what gets the creative juices flowing.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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Speaking of dairy, can you take soy milk, @MJ DeMarco? I

Yes but I try to avoid soy altogether. I prefer oat and coconut milk, maybe sometimes almond. But even that I use sparingly as someone mentioned above, most of these dairy alts are just a lot of thickeners and few plants.

When you get out of your comfort zone, travel, and experience new things... this is what gets the creative juices flowing.

You mean I'm not going to see opportunities sitting in my basement playing video games all day?
 

Jello

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The SO makes a creamy potato, mushroom, and broccoli soup. I couldn't believe there was no dairy in it and she used some type of cashew thing. Naturally she didn't tell me what it was because I'm a finicky eater (gooey cashew mix just sounds plain gross) but it was better than the real thing. I ended up eating an entire vat of the stuff. Even better, I wasn't put into a dairy coma 30 minutes later.

Can you explain a bit more about this dairy coma? I eat a lot of dairy products and need the protein cause I do a lot of muscle buildup in the gym. But also I'm switching my diet to only eat meat two times a week and eat more fish and vegetarian food. To be honest I feel better but still suffer energy drops several times a day.
 

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@MJ DeMarco - I know you lift so I was curious how shifting to the vegan lifestyle impacted your ability to retain/gain muscle.

I've considered the shift but it seems incredibly difficult to get 140-200 grams of protein a day especially when I typically don't have the time to do extensive meal prep. From my understanding most athletes that make the shift switch back to meat for the same reason.

Are there certain foods you load up on to hit your macros?
 
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rogue synthetic

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@MJ DeMarco - I know you lift so I was curious how shifting to the vegan lifestyle impacted your ability to retain/gain muscle.

I've considered the shift but it seems incredibly difficult to get 140-200 grams of protein a day especially when I typically don't have the time to do extensive meal prep. From my understanding most athletes that make the shift switch back to meat for the same reason.

Are there certain foods you load up on to hit your macros?

This is what has kept me from going full vegan. I've had to keep eggs, protein powder and cottage cheese in my diet because I haven't found any economical plant-based solutions -- economical as in cost and economical as in what can I reasonably shove down my throat.

I'd be interested in any solutions others have found.
 

MJ DeMarco

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I know you lift so I was curious how shifting to the vegan lifestyle impacted your ability to retain/gain muscle.

It's hard to say because I haven't been able to lift weights and exercise like I've wanted to in close to 3 years. This started a few years before I went vegan (was Paleo then) so my gym life has never been the same. Three years ago I had to undergo a variety of orthopedic procedures (2 shoulder surgeries and 1 elbow surgery, plus two knees that need work) I've never been able to return to form at the gym. At this point it's pretty much impossible for me to put in a "muscle-building" workout that doesn't strain my surgical sites.

So with that said, I know I have gained body fat but I'm not sure on the muscle. I'm still pretty strong relative to years ago but struggle testing those limits. IMO, this is less about the vegan lifestyle and more about not being able to go to the gym and not exercising like I'd like. Hard to follow "macros" and be perfectly engaged when every trip to the gym is fine balancing act between structural pain and fitness. Let's just say this is a very sore (no pun intended) subject for me and probably the biggest source of angst in my life right now.

And then typically when I don't go to the gym (or have poor workouts, have to quit early) run, play softball, remain active, etc., I follow that up by eating like shit. And vegan junk food is a plenty.

Can you explain a bit more about this dairy coma?

After I eating anything dairy (especially cheese) I feel like I've been given a big sedative along the lines of propofol. It can knock me out for hours. I stopped eating dairy and that went away. We all react differently to different foods, a lot of folks I know including myself, get knocked out consuming dairy.

I'd be interested in any solutions others have found.

There are plenty of plant-based protein powders, Vega, MRM and whole bunch of smaller companies. There's never been more of a selection. Vega also makes a quick plant-based protein shake which I drink whenever I can get to the gym.
 

The Germinator

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It's hard to say because I haven't been able to lift weights and exercise like I've wanted to in close to 3 years. This started a few years before I went vegan (was Paleo then) so my gym life has never been the same. Three years ago I had to undergo a variety of orthopedic procedures (2 shoulder surgeries and 1 elbow surgery, plus two knees that need work) I've never been able to return to form at the gym. At this point it's pretty much impossible for me to put in a "muscle-building" workout that doesn't strain my surgical sites.

So with that said, I know I have gained body fat but I'm not sure on the muscle. I'm still pretty strong relative to years ago but struggle testing those limits. IMO, this is less about the vegan lifestyle and more about not being able to go to the gym and not exercising like I'd like. Hard to follow "macros" and be perfectly engaged when every trip to the gym is fine balancing act between structural pain and fitness. Let's just say this is a very sore (no pun intended) subject for me and probably the biggest source of angst in my life right now.

And then typically when I don't go to the gym (or have poor workouts, have to quit early) run, play softball, remain active, etc., I follow that up by eating like shit. And vegan junk food is a plenty.



After I eating anything dairy (especially cheese) I feel like I've been given a big sedative along the lines of propofol. It can knock me out for hours. I stopped eating dairy and that went away. We all react differently to different foods, a lot of folks I know including myself, get knocked out consuming dairy.



There are plenty of plant-based protein powders, Vega, MRM and whole bunch of smaller companies. There's never been more of a selection. Vega also makes a quick plant-based protein shake which I drink whenever I can get to the gym.

Hey @MJ DeMarco , I'm new to this forum but I'm not new to lifting.

I just wantet to show you these guys, because those would be the people I would go to, if I wanted to lift weights in case I would be injured, needed a rehab or have any type of pain. I guess they should be able to help you: https://www.barbellmedicine.com/consults-and-contact/ (See injury and rehab).

I'm currently coached by one of their staff members too and it is working really well (but I just have normal powerlifting/bodybuilding coaching, nothing pain related).

They also have a YT-Channel, blog, podcast, etc. with free information about training, nutrition and pain management in training.

Hope that might help you!
 
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Ninjakid

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Devilery

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@MJ DeMarco - I know you lift so I was curious how shifting to the vegan lifestyle impacted your ability to retain/gain muscle.

I've considered the shift but it seems incredibly difficult to get 140-200 grams of protein a day especially when I typically don't have the time to do extensive meal prep. From my understanding most athletes that make the shift switch back to meat for the same reason.

Are there certain foods you load up on to hit your macros?
Not @MJ DeMarco but I am amateur level triathlete training 6-9 times per week with pretty much full effort every single training. I go to gym 3 times a week, run twice a week, cycle twice a week and swim twice a week. I have been vegan for year and a half, training for less than a year (so started as vegan).
Started struggling a lot with the diet because calorie intake is huge (4000+). I could not handle eating fancy cooked meals, it was way too much volume and hard to hit my needs, so what I did was - switched to lots of smoothies. But not the regular fruity ones -1500 calorie smoothies with 50g of protein in each. That helps massively - no need to cook, very cheap, takes little time to prepare and easy for stomach. Of course I also eat "normal food".
Protein? Get the cheapest pea protein isolate and rice protein (combined has all amino acids making it as quality as animal protein sources).
Does it work? Well muscle gains are fairly slow (currently gaining around 2kg per month), but with my training routine I can't expect more as I'm not primarly bodybuilding.
On the other side my strength, endurance and speed is increasing surpisingly fast. For example, 3 months ago I couldn't swim 50 meters, for real, I ran out of breath and had zero strength (and miserable technique), now 1500 meters is pretty chill.
If you have any more specific questions let me know.
 

AgainstAllOdds

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Not @MJ DeMarco but I am amateur level triathlete training 6-9 times per week with pretty much full effort every single training. I go to gym 3 times a week, run twice a week, cycle twice a week and swim twice a week. I have been vegan for year and a half, training for less than a year (so started as vegan).
Started struggling a lot with the diet because calorie intake is huge (4000+). I could not handle eating fancy cooked meals, it was way too much volume and hard to hit my needs, so what I did was - switched to lots of smoothies. But not the regular fruity ones -1500 calorie smoothies with 50g of protein in each. That helps massively - no need to cook, very cheap, takes little time to prepare and easy for stomach. Of course I also eat "normal food".
Protein? Get the cheapest pea protein isolate and rice protein (combined has all amino acids making it as quality as animal protein sources).
Does it work? Well muscle gains are fairly slow (currently gaining around 2kg per month), but with my training routine I can't expect more as I'm not primarly bodybuilding.
On the other side my strength, endurance and speed is increasing surpisingly fast. For example, 3 months ago I couldn't swim 50 meters, for real, I ran out of breath and had zero strength (and miserable technique), now 1500 meters is pretty chill.
If you have any more specific questions let me know.

That's really cool.

Do you think your improvements have been because of diet or your training regiment? Were you training the same way before three months ago?
 
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MTF

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Well muscle gains are fairly slow (currently gaining around 2kg per month)

Man is this what you consider slow? If it's 2 kilos of real muscle a month, you're doing incredibly well.
 

jon.M

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Man is this what you consider slow? If it's 2 kilos of real muscle a month, you're doing incredibly well.
It's practically impossible. After a typical workout, your body might be able to syntethize a few grams of additional muscle protein.

People tend to vastly overestimate the amount of real muscle they gain, and underestimate their body fat levels. A lot of perceived muscularity is due to muscular swelling, more glycogen thanks to a high calorie diet etc
 

Devilery

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It's practically impossible. After a typical workout, your body might be able to syntethize a few grams of additional muscle protein.

People tend to vastly overestimate the amount of real muscle they gain, and underestimate their body fat levels. A lot of perceived muscularity is due to muscular swelling, more glycogen thanks to a high calorie diet etc

You're right. I guarantee that no more than half of that is muscle weight. I have like 1000 calorie surplus so I'm dirty bulking - gaining fat too (my abs look the same luckily) :D
 
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Devilery

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That's really cool.

Do you think your improvements have been because of diet or your training regiment? Were you training the same way before three months ago?

I have never trained like this, therefore I can't really compare with omnivore diet. I would love to say that vegan diet makes me faster, stronger etc., but that might not be true. I believe results would be similar on omnivore diet, but I choose this as I'm definitely thriving this way and can sustain heavy trainings. Feeling great, being sure my health is taken care off and the ethical aspect makes it totally worth it for me.
I saw you asking about muscle building. It depends on your height, weight, but for me to get enough calories, the easiest way is adding huge smoothies (oatmeal, protein powder, peanut butter, olive oil and fruits). And yes, I do suggest protein powders. Not because it's impossible to get enough from regular meals, but it's just crazy amount of food (I don't easy traditional soy and gluten proteins). Huge amount would sky-rocket fiber intake, that way causing bloating and just messing up digestion in general.
 

Dameron

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Male baby chicken are shredded en masse, because they aren´t needed.
Still eat eggs, but feeling bad about it. I´m trying to get away from it as much as possible.
Chicken are enslaved to produce eggs, and killed when they don´t produce results. It´s still wrong ethically.
 

Dameron

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The lack if information among people who actually consume foods on a daily basis - as to how it is produced - never ceases to amaze me...

First off, if you eat honey, you are not a "pure" vegan/vegetarian. (Insectarian?)

I raise bees & harvest honey. It is INEVITABLE that microscopic bee parts (legs, wing fragments, parasitic mite parts, and hive beetle parts are GONNA be in the bottled honey. This applies to "pasteurized", "filtered" or "raw", commercial or "organic". Some particles are always gonna get past the filters...

The only way to maybe get around this - is to buy very CLEAN honeycomb, wash it again carefully and then suck the honey directly out of each chamber - after examining each chamber with a magnifying glass. Messy, inconvenient... and still not 100%. Maybe 99.5%?

Then this post about grinding up male chicks. This is absolutely true - of the factory breeders and farms. Better yet is the fact that they often get fed right back to the other chickens.

They can be neutered (capons) and the meat is every bit as good as any hen, but in the USA, with the McDonalds mentality of getting it NOW - that practice seems to take too much time? (Like 3 minutes max for someone experienced)

If you only keep a few hens around - as I do for their eggs - those eggs are non-fertile. No rooster, result is no baby chicks possible - so you ain't committing some kinda chicken infanticide...

Wait 'till I get around to doing my rant on commercially farmed "organic" fruit & vegetables! It's a long rant. No time tonight. Suffice it to say, that it's mostly buyer beware...
 
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Dameron

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I've been a vegetarian (lacto-ovo) for 10-11 years or so. My question for fellow vegetarians and vegans: how do you approach the fact that it's close to impossible to avoid animal-derived products in your everyday life?

You can avoid certain things, for example you don't have to buy leather shoes, but there are plenty of things that almost always have something derived from animals. If you want to buy a new car, even if the seats aren't leather, the steering wheel will probably be. If not the steering wheel, then gear stick or something else.

Another issue: if you're investing in public companies, unless they're a 100% vegan company (are there any?) it's impossible to know how much of your invested money is spent on products made from animals. Or even if you invest in, say, Facebook, a company with digital assets, they still buy non-vegan stuff for their offices (like leather chairs) and if they have cafeterias, non-vegan food (and there's also the fact that unethical companies make a lot of money thanks to Facebook's advertising platform).

You can quickly go crazy when you consider that no matter what you do, you still support killing animals in one way or another. I just tell myself that perfection is impossible. I can only minimize my impact as I'm not going to withdraw from the modern world.
 

Dameron

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The simple answer is NOT to become a fanatic/purist... about anything.

If you go down the road you are describing, you won't be able to wear synthetics or use plastics either. There might actually be some dissolved baby dinosaur in the petroleum that those products are made from... c'mon! Be reasonable!

Recently, politics, EATING HABITS, the clothes you wear, the car you drive, and the brand of phone you carry have become worse than religions in the way that they split and divide people up!

For example, if you eat ANY prepared/packaged foods, frozen, canned, dried, pickled or whatever - standard commercial products or the fairly new (overpriced for the most part) "certified organic" foods - go and look up the USDA requirements.

Bugs & bug parts, eggs & larvae, rodent hairs, mouse turds, and unidentifiable detritus are allowed in relatively small amounts ;) to be in your packaged food. As are traces of the soil they were grown in... and pay attention to the traces of insecticides allowed.

(Particularly in regards to "organic" produce. Yes, there ARE organically approved pesticides. And there is a potentially HUGE problem with those pesticides. I will cover those in a later rant...)

Humans have been eating microscopically "contaminated' foods - without harm - since we evolved to the point at which we had mouths to stick it in. It's no big deal. You are NEVER gonna get absolutely clean foods - not even cloned & raised in a laboratory on a spaceship! Some kinda microbe will be in there...
 
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jon.M

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You're right. I guarantee that no more than half of that is muscle weight. I have like 1000 calorie surplus so I'm dirty bulking - gaining fat too (my abs look the same luckily) :D
Yeah I understood what you were saying, didn't call you out on anything BTW. Was just thinking out loud.

I like dirty bulking. Years ago I did a bulk where I went from 134 to 210 lbs in two years. Every single person called me stupid but I managed to end up with some significant mass and abs still visible.

The effect it has on your performance and endurance to high training volume... damn. A good caloric surplus does wonders.

Even to the extent you don't really need to worry that much about your protein intake, as long as you eat decent food in enough qualities.

It's on a cut, or perhaps when going on balance, you're more likely to struggle hitting alright macros. More so on a vegan diet.
 
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amp0193

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Wait 'till I get around to doing my rant on commercially farmed "organic" fruit & vegetables! It's a long rant. No time tonight. Suffice it to say, that it's mostly buyer beware...

I want to hear it. I know @Scot has a thing or two to say about organic...
 

Sanj Modha

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BTW - some vegans consider Figs and Honey as non-vegan.

Discuss?
 
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Scot

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I want to hear it. I know @Scot has a thing or two to say about organic...

Mines a long rant too...

But I refuse to get my products USDA Organic Certified of Non-GMO Certified.

They’re marketing scams, based on pseudo science, and are not sustainable for the environment.
 

Dameron

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BTW - some vegans consider Figs and Honey as non-vegan.

Discuss?
Figs? I do not understand why? We have 3 fig trees on the place. "White" and Mission varieties. They are definitely fruit. Never seen an insect on mine. Birds, yes. Lots of birds come when they get ripe. If you pick them just before they are ripe enough to attract the birds it's not a problem. Bird mangled fruit is not generally offered for sale at your local market...

We've never required pest control or fertilizers of any kind to produce bumper crops of figs and pomegranates. (We are in northern California, USA - so it may be different in other parts of the world? Different pests or agricultural practices?)

What would be the reasoning behind considering figs "non-vegan" any more than any other fruit? And who are the "Vegan police" that made this decision?

Honey, I can kinda understand.

True religious/fanatic/purist vegans might even have problems with a snail, worm or insect having traveled over the surface of a tomato, eggplant or whatever. It happens. Happens a LOT if you have organic vegetable gardens.

I've had bees for 20 years. The process of ingesting the nectar from the flower and then "vomiting" it back up into the cell may disturb some snowflakes? And the fact that it is impossible to bottle it with getting some some microscopic bits of insect parts into the finished product... even with filtration. Most commercial processors also pasteurize honey for the reason below. Don't take the risk if you have a baby.

Although honey seems like a wholesome and natural food to give your infant, don't do it until after he/she's at least 12 months old. Honey can contain spores of a bacterium called Clostridium botulinum, which can germinate in a baby's immature digestive system and cause infant botulism.

Raw "organic" honey is not normally filtered or pasteurized. I have seen relatively large chunks of bees in a few jars offered for sale... not common, in the USA - but I'm sure it could happen. ie. bottling while inebriated or in the dark. ;)

How many "vegans" refuse to drink the tequila with the worm in the bottle?

Also go look up the treatment of burn victims with honey... Microbes do not do very well passing through a barrier of honey.
 
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Sanj Modha

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It's not a religious decision - I have vegan atheists in my family who don't eat Figs.

The reason is that the Fig plant will consume insects during its growth. I'm told Bees excrete (vomit) a chemical during the honey making process. And, Shellac isn't vegan since its secreted by bugs (they use it in nail bars).

I personally don't think it's possible to be 100% vegan unless you live on a commune, grow your own veggies and do not eat anything processed or commercially made.
 
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It's not a religious decision - I have vegan atheists in my family who don't eat Figs.

The reason is that the Fig plant will consume insects during its growth. I'm told Bees excrete (vomit) a chemical during the honey making process. And, Shellac isn't vegan since its secreted by bugs (they use it in nail bars).

I personally don't think it's possible to be 100% vegan unless you live on a commune, grow your own veggies and do not eat anything processed or commercially made.
 

Dameron

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Thanks, Sanj Modha! I DID learn some things I did not know about figs - due to what YOU posted... quite probably more than anyone on this forum has any use for!

If not, don't waste your time reading further...


Amazing, walking past these trees every damn day for 17 years - how ignorant one can be!

First - I am in California, USA. Only commenting on plants & trees in my area.

Never paid much attention to whether our bees actually visit our fig trees? - and it's not gonna be that season again 'till late summer. I WILL be watching carefully this year. Having read what I found below, I kinda doubt that bees will have any reason to go near the figs?

Bees do "vomit" the nectar they collect, but NOT into the flower. It is released into the honey cell when they return to the hive.

No common fruit or vegetable bearing plant that I knew of "consumes" insects - until I read what I posted below?

Apparently figs do. And according to what the stage of the fruit is - there may be a dead female wasp or live larvae in there... I assume that both are gone - the wasp digested and her progeny have left by the time the fruit is ripe? I happen to have a surgical microscope used in my daily employment and late this summer I will be dissecting our figs to see what is really going on in there..

There ARE carnivorous plants that do digest insects - ie Venus Flytrap, Sundew, Pitcher plants, Butterwort and the like - but I have not heard of anyone eating them?

Can't find anything on lac bugs making shellac on FIG trees? But that shiny waxy polish that you see on apples and citrus fruit sold at your local market used to contain shellac. Dunno if it still does?

Here's what I learned about figs:

<"There is typically only one species of wasp capable of fertilizing the flowers of each species of fig, and therefore plantings of fig species outside of their native range results in effectively sterile individuals. For example, in Hawaii, some 60 species of figs have been introduced, but only four of the wasps that fertilize them have been introduced, so only four species of figs produce viable seeds there. This is an example of mutualism, in which each organism (fig plant and fig wasp) benefit each other, in this case reproductively.">

<"Fig trees are totally dependent on fig wasps for pollination and have been for the past 60 million years, this shows that this process of pollinating is efficient and sustainable creating equilibrium between the two populations. Fig wasps also benefit from this unaware pollination as they only breed in the figs.">

<"There are 900 species of fig wasp, and each is responsible for pollinating one or two species of fig plant. Without fig wasps, there would be no figs - and vice versa.">

Is it true there are dead wasps in figs?

Are there really dead wasps in your figs?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DQTjv_u3Vc


Is there any fig wasps in North Cali? - Ourfigs.com

List of crop plants pollinated by bees - Wikipedia
 
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