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Thoughts on Cars (subtitle... why you should not buy a Lamborghini)

Vigilante

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When I first came to the forum, I made a declaration about wanting to buy a Panoz Esparante as a badge of accomplishment for hitting certain milestones.

The gal that manages our office drives a brand new Mercedes. I know more than I would care to know about her finances, and I can tell you that she's in no position to pay for the car that she drives. She's flashy but car poor. A significant percentage of her disposable income goes into her depreciating asset. Actually, it's not even her asset as it is leased. She gets a new one every three years, and at this rate will be paying for it forever. She literally can't afford it, but she does it anyway.

At one point, I had $2,000 in car payments per month excluding insurance and maintenance. I didn't care, because I had the income to support it. Or so I thought... until the economy changed, and my W2 income changed. All the sudden, I didn't have the income to support it. Almost overnight. But I still had the cars and the debt. The lender who was super friendly when I was rolling with money falling out of my pockets wasn't as friendly when the money dried up. Boy, was I proud of those vehicles when I had no money to make the $2,000 in car payments. (?)

Fast forward several years. I now buy cars with cash. I still own the cars that were the subject of the $2,000 noose around my neck. I probably keep them around more as a memory of how NOT to live life. I still remember the calls from the creditors. I still remember not wanting to go to the mail box. I remember the down side of what everyone from the outside never saw. All they saw was me rolling fat in the vehicles they couldn't afford. They didn't know that I couldn't really afford them either.

So today. I bought my approaching adult age kids each a used car. Paid cash. That's it for them. They're on their own (vehicle wise) from there. As I said, I still own the cars that at one point almost took me completely under. They've been paid off for many years. A few of you have ridden in one or two of them.

Look at yourself in the mirror. Who are you trying to impress with your car? I could right now buy that Panoz I dreamed about. I don't need it any more. If cars make you happy, and you have money, buy a car. If you have enough money, buy a Jay Leno fleet of cars.

But... please learn from me. When you are younger and/or you don't have cash, no car is worth the downside if the downside is financial ruin. You can get the car later. If you need a reliable car and financing is the only way to get one, then get something modest so if your world falls in around you, you can still swim. Cars are temporary, and depreciate. Buy used. Pay cash.

In a poorly phrased reiteration of a quote from MJ, be willing to do today what nobody else will do so that you can live some day like nobody else can live. If I could go back and tell my younger self what to do, avoiding unnecessary/voluntary slavery through debt is one correction I could have made to make my life much easier.

End of sermon.
 
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MoneyDoc

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When I first came to the forum, I made a declaration about wanting to buy a Panoz Esparante as a badge of accomplishment for hitting certain milestones.

The gal that manages our office drives a brand new Mercedes. I know more than I would care to know about her finances, and I can tell you that she's in no position to pay for the car that she drives. She's flashy but car poor. A significant percentage of her disposable income goes into her depreciating asset. Actually, it's not even her asset as it is leased. She gets a new one every three years, and at this rate will be paying for it forever. She literally can't afford it, but she does it anyway.

At one point, I had $2,000 in car payments per month excluding insurance and maintenance. I didn't care, because I had the income to support it. Or so I thought... until the economy changed, and my W2 income changed. All the sudden, I didn't have the income to support it. Almost overnight. But I still had the cars and the debt. The lender who was super friendly when I was rolling with money falling out of my pockets wasn't as friendly when the money dried up. Boy, was I proud of those vehicles when I had no money to make the $2,000 in car payments. (?)

Fast forward several years. I now buy cars with cash. I still own the cars that were the subject of the $2,000 noose around my neck. I probably keep them around more as a memory of how NOT to live life. I still remember the calls from the creditors. I still remember not wanting to go to the mail box. I remember the down side of what everyone from the outside never saw. All they saw was me rolling fat in the vehicles they couldn't afford. They didn't know that I couldn't really afford them either.

So today. I bought my approaching adult age kids each a used car. Paid cash. That's it for them. They're on their own (vehicle wise) from there. As I said, I still own the cars that at one point almost took me completely under. They've been paid off for many years. A few of you have ridden in one or two of them.

Look at yourself in the mirror. Who are you trying to impress with your car? I could right now buy that Panoz I dreamed about. I don't need it any more. If cars make you happy, and you have money, buy a car. If you have enough money, buy a Jay Leno fleet of cars.

But... please learn from me. When you are younger and/or you don't have cash, no car is worth the downside if the downside is financial ruin. You can get the car later. If you need a reliable car and financing is the only way to get one, then get something modest so if your world falls in around you, you can still swim. Cars are temporary, and depreciate. Buy used. Pay cash.

In a poorly phrased reiteration of a quote from MJ, be willing to do today what nobody else will do so that you can live some day like nobody else can live. If I could go back and tell my younger self what to do, avoiding unnecessary/voluntary slavery through debt is one correction I could have made to make my life much easier.

End of sermon.
Man do I know a bunch of young people (early-mid 20s) that all bought 0km cars that they can barely make the payments on. They make $1200 bi-weekly, $400-600 gone immediately to their car/insurance payments. Then they complain about not having enough money at the end of the month.

Also, clothes are another big issue. You see young guys with $200 belts, $300 shoes, $150 shirts, and yet they complain about shortage of money... Here's a picture reiterating my statement:
 

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Vigilante

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Man do I know a bunch of young people (early-mid 20s) that all bought 0km cars that they can barely make the payments on. They make $1200 bi-weekly, $400-600 gone immediately to their car/insurance payments. Then they complain about not having enough money at the end of the month.

Also, clothes are another big issue. You see young guys with $200 belts, $300 shoes, $150 shirts, and yet they complain about shortage of money... Here's a picture reiterating my statement:

I was sitting on a remote beach one time in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific Islands, when the only billionaire I know walked up.

He was wearing flip flops, a raggy tee shirt, and a pair of Billibong shorts. On a Thursday morning. Because he could. That to me... was rich.
 
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theag

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My car cost 500€, bought it a year ago. It starts to fall apart now. Hope it survives until the next summer when the next inspection is due and it will probably be wrecked :)
 

sQri

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Well, thank your for your inspirational post!

This fits very well to my situation right now. My car broke down just yesterday and it costs about 600€ to repair it.
I was thinking of getting another car anyway, but only, if I have the money, which I dont have right now.

But now, my girlfriend asks me, if I could lend money from my parents to buy a new car.
I'd really like to, but this is way against the principle I'm gonna live after.

So I think, I'm gonna repair it and drive it, until its wrecked and then, I only buy a car which I can afford.
 

SteveO

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Great post!

I have not had a car payment for 10 years or so. For some reason I always justify buying new cars and keeping them for a while.

I don't usually get nice cars. Our household has a Tundra and Camry. At one point we had an Infinity with all the bells and whistles. We just don't get a kick out of having those things.
 
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Shades

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Ill probably keep leasing Kias honestly. Look good to me, comfortable and have been reliable. Not expensive. And I always have a car thats under warranty.

I just know that im not personally one that can buy a car and keep it til its dead which seems to be the only way buying comes out on top.

Ive always liked the Cadillac CTS-V. But then I think, after the first week of wow factor wears off what is really the point to spending a ton of money on a car? Im not a enthusiast. Better leather used on the trim? More power? Just came to the conclusion I dont care. Not when it comes to spending out the nose for something that only loses value. Comfort and reliability is all I need. And that can be found for not a ton of money.
 
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jockinbox

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Great post Vig
Recently I've been avoiding driving just because of the reckless/uninsured drivers here in FL

However if any of you guys are interested on getting better deals:
I've always purchased my cars from CoPart
You can get very steep discount on cars, & have a trusted mechanic fix it up for you
After that take it to your local DMV and they will inspect it and give you a new tag

Also you guys looking to spend a ton of money on a car should read this
http://foreverjobless.com/how-to-buy-a-ferrari-for-20k/
 

Mike Kavanagh

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VEAiE7d.jpg


I bought a similar car almost two years ago for $700. I put a couple bills in it so it was safe to drive.
Still have the rust bucket.

Only one major problem since I've bought and it only cost $20 to fix.
I've also learned that mechanic skills are genetic.


Also on Billy's ( @snowbank ) site there was a podcast with him and someone else talking about how cheap their first cars were
Here it is

Wear your cheap car as a badge of honor. You are ahead of everyone else because you don't have a huge monthly payment for your transportation.
 
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RHL

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D11FYY

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This relates to alot of people local to where I live all young guys 19-25 driving $30-40k+ cars new Audi A5s Mercedes etc.
They are working normal 9-5 jobs so its all to be flash. Its not going to be flash in 3 years time when they hand the cars back and have nothing to show except a bank balance that has been well and truly hit.
Craziness if you ask me but best of luck at least their lining someone wiser's pockets.
 

twdavis

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Sometimes I wish I woulda bought something cheaper than what I did. I bought my used Pontiac G6 a year and a half ago when I was still working (slaving) as a manager at McDonalds, thought I was super cool cause the car looked cool.

My payment is nothing compared to some, I only pay $220/mo and $120 for insurance (includes my one wreck and one traffic ticket).

She cost me $9000.

pontiac-g6-gt-01.jpg
 
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Andy Black

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Vig. Great post man. Also, everyone else who chimed in.

Personally, I've owned an Audi A4, Porche Boxster, Suzuki GXR600, Kawasaki ZX7R, and a BMW R1200 GS.

All at the same time.

All sold (miss having a bike mind), and now have a 2006 Toyota Corrola (black with nice wheels of course).

All paid for.

I am much happier.

Great story. I hope more people "get it".

The saying goes something like this:

"Too many people spend too much of their lives doing something they hate to buy stuff they don't need to impress people they don't know."

Young guns... take pleasure in doing the opposite.

:)
 
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RHL

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People do sometimes buy cars because they enjoy driving, not just to looking at them or being looked at. When I was young I was able to take a lot of the free exotic trips to Europe and Asia that people here pine for because I was a finalist in a bunch of international science fairs. Having already stayed in a $2,000/night hotel on another continent, I'd still rather have a supercar than travel or go to the beach, all things being equal. Just something I've learned about myself.

I agree with the premise, don't spend money on what enslaves you, but don't think that that's limited to cars. I have a friend who went $14K over his standard debt in student loans by repeatedly studying abroad abroad, and another sidewalker acquaintance who spends every penny he saves on $700 cruises and bare-bones trips to the UK and Central/South America. He can never afford his (old Toyota) repairs and is always asking people to pray about his rent every other month. I know young people who bought $380,000 houses when they should have kept renting or gotten a $180,000 house. Same deal.

Cars aren't the problem, buy-now-pay-later depreciating assets are the problem, and liabilities exceeding income or that risk exceeding income are the problem. Financing should be a tool that frees money you already have to be invested more wisely, not to foot bills you couldn't handle if they were called today in the hope that you'll have that money tomorrow. Vig is right to target cars specifically, because these tend to be a huge cause for this, especially here.

That said, I still whole-heatedly agree with the premise of this thread. As I said before, I wish I'd gotten my Honda hybrid before (and instead of) my Corvette; despite the extreme reliability, very cheap parts, and my mechanical knowledge, the amount I saved commuting the same distance in the Honda every year was over $4,500 once repairs and gas in the Vette were factored in. I've never financed a car, and unless you really know what you're doing, I agree that it's always better to buy cheap, buy outright, and own. That way, if you get in trouble, you have something you can get rid of for cash, not something that continues to get rid of your cash.
 
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Rinzler

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As a kid who had to work for everything I wanted, I made the mistake of tossing my first "big" check into a Mitsubishi Eclipse when I was 18... Cash, but had I spent that $6k elsewhere who knows where I would be today. Three years later I'm now in a better vehicle I'm paying for just because I thought I "deserved" it.

Learned the lesson the hard way, and now my car payment serves as a great motivator for me to pursue my Fastlane Venture.

Going to share this thread with some of my friends and hope they'll "get it" as well!
 
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This exact lesson you guys are talking about is what I learned the hard way. And I didn't even buy a great car! I cooked a head and blew a high pressure tranny line in the dead of winter. Not wanting to wrench on my my car in -40 weather,Technically broke.I Band aid'd it all back together. Drove into a dealership on a payday looking for a full sized truck. Because I'm a carpenter it would only make sense. They broke my spirit and sold me a 4 door KIA for 16K. The wake up call was when I showed my roommate at the time the paperwork. And she seen %28 Interest. and realized I'm actually paiying like 28k in the end. I've always paid cash. and $2000 being the most I've ever paid for a car. I'm still paying for this "new" car. And I put a new motor in last winter for $2600. I drag raced my old car every weekend and drove it to work all week. All it asked me for was a head and a rubber hose. One of my biggest financial mistakes.

I've bought many cars since the age of 16. Some of the highlights 83 mustang hatch back v6,83 Trans-am 350 fI. Effin Rocket! Never could Afford to insure it at 18 yrs old. But My all time Favorite, The one that got Away a Black 95 Mercury Cougar fully loaded. leather interior. Did a Head swap, Tune and walker exhaust front to back.
 

socaldude

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As someone who owns a luxury car I can tell you that it gets old quick.

The first few weeks its awesome, but after a while you realize that the car has actually done very little to better your life, yourself or your business. Just gives you an ego boost.

They're expensive to maintain, the full coverage insurance, the gas guzzling 12mpg etc.

Once you start to make lots of money you find that you don't want all of that attention you wanted when you didn't have that kind of money.

Its funny how it tends to work that way, at least for me. When you are broke you have a huge appetite to impress. When you have money you have a huge appetite to stay out of the spotlight.

Plus when you are building and growing a business, its just stupid to throw the cash into a brand new BMW instead of the business asset.

The business will change your life not the BMW.

Fastlane= Freedom from jobs, debt, etc. Control. Cash. Value. Ownership.

The Fastlane creed:

I loan not borrow.
I am an employer not an employee.
I own free and clear.
I am in control, I am not controlled by some external institution or entity.
I actively learn not passively live.
I create value not money.

Cheers for the Fastlane! And for a happy, healthy and financially healthy life!
 
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twdavis

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Anyone ever have a car repo'd? If you don't want to share something like that you don't have to but I'm just curious. It seems like a really unpleasant thing to go through
 
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Mike Kavanagh

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I'm apart of a mentor-ship program (paid entry)

The guy who runs the show is a philosophical guy. He reads a lot and talks about happiness. One of the keys to happiness is having control.

2. Giving Up Control

A middle-aged business man sits slumped in one of the subway seats looking dejected. His boss just demoted him because of a project gone bad due to the slumping economy. He needs the job to pay his rent so he had no choice but to stay with the firm.

It’s hard to be happy when the world is conspiring against you. People who take on the role of a victim, are never happy. This is because they don’t have any control. They believe that their unhappiness has been caused by an external factor and it can only be taken away by the external factor. They live in the miserable land of “if only”.

Read more

I feel as if you sign up for anything
Mortgage, car payment, loan, etc...
You feel a loss of control.

If I get another car, it will be paid in full. I personally don't think buying a house suits me. When I can, I'll live in term apartments, the terms being that I can leave when I feel like it. Of course I'll be ethical about it and fill the void with someone else before I go.

I a sort of control freak or something
 
D

DeletedUser394

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I have a freaking transit pass that I get for free. lol.

Although I see how a car is necessary in places with low population density.

My yearly transportation cost is currently $0. I could buy anything short of a ferrari with cash right now.. but businesses are cooler yo.
 

Shades

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This exact lesson you guys are talking about is what I learned the hard way. And I didn't even buy a great car! I cooked a head and blew a high pressure tranny line in the dead of winter. Not wanting to wrench on my my car in -40 weather,Technically broke.I Band aid'd it all back together. Drove into a dealership on a payday looking for a full sized truck. Because I'm a carpenter it would only make sense. They broke my spirit and sold me a 4 door KIA for 16K. The wake up call was when I showed my roommate at the time the paperwork. And she seen %28 Interest. and realized I'm actually paiying like 28k in the end. I've always paid cash. and $2000 being the most I've ever paid for a car. I'm still paying for this "new" car. And I put a new motor in last winter for $2600. I drag raced my old car every weekend and drove it to work all week. All it asked me for was a head and a rubber hose. One of my biggest financial mistakes.

I've bought many cars since the age of 16. Some of the highlights 83 mustang hatch back v6,83 Trans-am 350 fI. Effin Rocket! Never could Afford to insure it at 18 yrs old. But My all time Favorite, The one that got Away a Black 95 Mercury Cougar fully loaded. leather interior. Did a Head swap, Tune and walker exhaust front to back.


I bet you will read every word of every contract you sign from here on out because of that car deal. 28% wow.
 
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SBS.95

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I think it comes down to why you are buying a car. I love cars. I could care less what anyone thinks about them, or the reputation they have. Some assclown on this forum once called me gay for having the username "Boxster" because it's a chick car. Don't care.

What's stupid is buying cars you can't afford. I've never had a car loan, and never will. Buying a Porsche Boxster- that will be done with cash. I'm in that young 20s age group where people from high school or college students will show off their new car. I know a guy who bought a $30,000 car with $0 down, paying $300 A MONTH for insurance. That will never be me. I'd rather be seen in a $900 Ford Escort before a car I can't afford.

I don't think it's bad to want exotic cars. That's what I'm into. My idea of a fun time is listening to music in the garage with pizza and beer and friends. For some people it's about vacations to the south of France, or a week in Vegas. That's fine by me, if you can pay for these kinds of ventures with cash and not put financial strain on yourself, I don't think it matters what kind of "money pit" hobbies you have. Personally I can't envision spending hours and hundreds of dollars in sleazy, dimly lit clubs. I'd much rather be covered in gear oil, working on my car, and trying that new Pizza Hut Bacon Stuffed Crust.
 

Shdreams

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I bet you will read every word of every contract you sign from here on out because of that car deal. 28% wow.
Oh hell yes! My KIA is a money sucker and I hate the thing. I learned a big lesson that day. I didn't have bad credit. I had No credit. Which is equally as terrible. I Mistook a lot of Inventory as an honest business. And a friendly salesmen for an honest man.
 

Shdreams

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I'd much rather be covered in gear oil, working on my car, and trying that new Pizza Hut Bacon Stuffed Crust.
amen to that! And Porsche are Bad A$$ I've been lucky enough to drive one. It was awesome, And felt as exotic as any other car I'm sure.
67 mustang fastback Eleanor That's where it's at for me.
 
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Shades

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Oh hell yes! My KIA is a money sucker and I hate the thing. I learned a big lesson that day. I didn't have bad credit. I had No credit. Which is equally as terrible. I Mistook a lot of Inventory as an honest business. And a friendly salesmen for an honest man.

Surprised to hear youve had so many problems with the Kia. What year?
 

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I don't want to sound rude, but isn't this common sense? why would you use debt to buy a depreciating asset, to serve nothing but your ego
 

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