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O/T: HEALTH Thinking about going Vegan for moral issues...

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Brian Suh

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Just saw a youtube video about people eating lobster sashimi. Basically eating lobster while the head is still alive. They were eating the lobster INFRONT OF THE LOBSTER WHILE IT IS STILL ALIVE AND CAN SEE IT. Something about it irked me. This is even after eating over 220 grams of protein for over 6 years because I workout only from animal product. Something in my moral compass just tells me this....is wrong. I think that says something. That little inner voice. That voice when you see someone getting picked on and you want to step in...but dont. I used to think that going vegan was silly as they were already dead so it would be a waste if i didnt eat it but change happens slowly and one person at at a time. And i think im going to make that shift.
 

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James Klymus

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I can totally understand why people see going vegan as a solution to ending animal cruelty. In fact, I think factory farming is really effed up and I don't like it at all. We should treat animals, especially those that give us sustenance, with respect, because at the end of the day they give their life so we can continue ours.

But one misconception that I see constantly is that veganism is a totally ethical, death free way to sustain your self.

Think about it like this. In order to clear fields to farm, huge farm equipment has to be used. That farm equipment is indiscriminate, it will till the soil, while also killing insects, and any ground animals that are in the way. It will also destroy the habitat of the animals and insects that were living there in the first place. Plus pesticides are used even in organic farming.

How many animals would die on a pasture that cows graze on, Besides the cows?

Not to mention the fact that people are still undecided on wether plants are conscious and feel pain.

And the lobster that you talked about, sure thats messed up too. I wouldn't do that morally either. But there are plenty of animals, like bears, that eat their prey alive. Usually big cats kill their prey then eat it, but bears will eat you a$$ hole first and make you watch it. They dont give a F.

Since vegans believe humans and animals are morally equal, why does no one care that bears eat prey alive? Are they not held to the same standard?

I'm not against people choosing to only eat vegetables. If you want to make that decision thats totally fine! The problem is, most people will watch one extremely biased documentary on Netflix, then make a huge life decision based solely on it, and go around criticizing people who decide to eat meat.

Do your research and figure out how to truly be ethical with your food, if thats what you want to do!
 

Primeperiwinkle

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It was wrong. That sounds cruel and bizarre.

#validation
#movingon
#buyavegancookbook
#itwillbeok
#bethechange
 

jon.M

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Since vegans believe humans and animals are morally equal, why does no one care that bears eat prey alive? Are they not held to the same standard?
Because bears are not concious to the point you would claim a human is. You don't hold a baby to the same standards as a grown adult. It doesn't know better. But that doesn't mean you kill and eat it.
 

Xeon

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But one misconception that I see constantly is that veganism is a totally ethical, death free way to sustain your self.
Veganism is just a way for people to feel more noble, that they're above the rest of the people who aren't. Similar to how royalty works. When the playing field is level, a portion of humankind has to come up with something to elevate themselves and stand apart from "the rest".

I even suspect the whole vegan fad could also have first originated from 1st-world people's subconsciousness to atone for crimes their ancestors did.

Think about it like this. In order to clear fields to farm, huge farm equipment has to be used. That farm equipment is indiscriminate, it will till the soil, while also killing insects, and any ground animals that are in the way. It will also destroy the habitat of the animals and insects that were living there in the first place. Plus pesticides are used even in organic farming. How many animals would die on a pasture that cows graze on, Besides the cows?
On a larger scale, think about what happens if just 30% of the world's population goes vegan.
Entire landmasses and forests, jungles would have to be removed, to make way for land to grow vegan food (ie: plants). If there's not enough, sea will need to be reclaimed (ie: reclaimed land) to get more space to plant crops.

All these will rob and upset the natural living habitats of those animals who were originally living there.
How is that saving any animals? IMO, that's far worse than eating meat.
In fact, this will even make their species go endangered, then extinct.

Not to mention the fact that people are still undecided on wether plants are conscious and feel pain.
Plants have feelings, plants have life, plants are sentient beings.
The vegan movement conveniently label plants as eatable because they "don't feel pain".
Ok, what if they do??! Are these "vegans" going to cry, vomit out every plant they ate, then start eating concrete next?

And the lobster that you talked about, sure thats messed up too. I wouldn't do that morally either. But there are plenty of animals, like bears, that eat their prey alive. Usually big cats kill their prey then eat it, but bears will eat you a$$ hole first and make you watch it. They dont give a F.
I don't agree with eating food while it's alive (it's gross btw). But then again, this is Nature, and Nature IS cruel. Hyenas always start by eating the bellies of the animals they kill, while it's alive. Now, if you use a gun to chase the hyenas away to save the baby buffalo, you'll starve and kill many hyenas. What then?

You know those people who go vegan? I'm concerned about their mental health.

Why?

Because everytime when meal time comes, they ask things like:

"Is this dish vegan"?
"Is that safe for vegans"?
"Is the truffles vegan-friendly?"
"Is the knife used to cut that spinach stem vegan-certified?"

Check the labels. Google for details. Research all the way right down to the source. All before they eat each meal.

Check out this site: 37 Foods and Ingredients to Avoid on a Vegan Diet

Look at the list of food that vegans can't eat.

Oh boy, what a way to live!

Oh my GGAAAWWWDDD.

Look. Even if the dish in the plate is 100% vegan-guaranteed, what about the plate?
Perhaps those plates came from a previous restaurant selling steak, which closed down and sold their assets, and now the new owner of the vegan restaurant overlooked that, buys these plates and uses the same plates to serve the vegan meals?

What about the chef preparing the vegan meal for you?
Perhaps the vegan restaurant got too busy and they had no choice but to hire Tom Lard, who loves eating lamb chops, to assist in the kitchen to prepare the vegan meals. Would vegans eat meals from Tom Lard? Would they even know?

Madness.

There is no such thing as a "vegan". To be a vegan would mean the inability to co-exist with Nature and the greater world. Humankind was created by Nature to be an Omnivore, not a herbivore.
Let's not perverse the course of Nature.

The way I see all these vegan shit and new-age nonsense (radical feminism included) going on in some countries, it seems to be a sign of societal decay.

Oohhh mama-mia!!!!!!

 

MJ DeMarco

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Something in my moral compass just tells me this....is wrong. I think that says something. That little inner voice. That voice when you see someone getting picked on and you want to step in...but dont. I used to think that going vegan was silly as they were already dead so it would be a waste if i didnt eat it but change happens slowly and one person at at a time. And i think im going to make that shift.
Congrats on listening to your inner voice.

What you felt was real and worth listening to.

Just because culture (or a majority) engages in some activity, or approves of some type of lifestyle, doesn't make it the right thing to do for your life. Sound familiar? Just because society wants you to work 9-5 for 50 years doesn't make it the right decision for your life.

There are cultural scripts in life that go beyond work and money.

28628

What you experienced is similar to what contributed to me going vegan, not the entire reason, but part of it.

I simply refuse to finance factory farming, the meat trade, and the corporations that profit from it.

Likewise, if you hate Trump, you ain't staying at his hotel.

If you hate Christians, you probably ain't tithing at church or shopping at Hobby Lobby.

In short, vegans who go vegan for the moral standpoint see it as this type of decision:

IMG_0967.jpg

I simply ain't gonna finance what I find atrocious.

then make a huge life decision based solely on it, and go around criticizing people who decide to eat meat.
The vegans I know don't criticize anyone for eating meat. I don't volunteer anything unless asked. In fact, your premise is exactly the opposite and this thread is a prime example.

The subject of veganism rarely draws comments from vegans themselves (like me) but from militant meat-eaters looking to defend their position.

Case in point: The salty comments in this thread aren't from vegans, but from triggered meat-eaters who don't like the idea that another person sees what most people refuse to see.

But if anyone wants to be enlightened, take a peek:


Spend a few hours there and you will discover why I refuse to finance such atrocities.

But one misconception that I see constantly is that veganism is a totally ethical, death free way to sustain your self.
A common argument, but a strawman. Most vegans who are vegan from the moral standpoint look at it from the point of view of not wanting to finance the meat-trade (factory farming) and the explicit incarceration and cruelty of other animals.

Of course I can't speak for them, but I don't think any of them expect a bear to stop eating fish, a tiger to stop eating zebra, much less an Alaskan bushman to stop hunting deer. These entities do so due to survival and biology.

A fat-a$$ human who wants a bacon double cheeseburger to quench his appetite ain't doing so for survival and/or biology, but as a matter of convenience and the satisfaction of a craving, as if their 40 BMI needed any more satisfaction.

The Pavlovian, defensive responses from carnivores when confronted with a vegan related topic is actually quite hilarious.

Why the F*ck does anyone care that Brian Suh doesn't want to eat meat?

The real question is, why do YOU feel threatened?


This is why this topic is such a hot-button topic; people will virulently defend their addiction, defend their religion, and defend their political bias...

Veganism is just a way for people to feel more noble, that they're above the rest of the people who aren't. Similar to how royalty works. When the playing field is level, a portion of humankind has to come up with something to elevate themselves and stand apart from "the rest".

I even suspect the whole vegan fad could also have first originated from 1st-world people's subconsciousness to atone for crimes their ancestors did.

On a larger scale, think about what happens if just 30% of the world's population goes vegan.
Entire landmasses and forests, jungles would have to be removed, to make way for land to grow vegan food (ie: plants). If there's not enough, sea will need to be reclaimed (ie: reclaimed land) to get more space to plant crops.

All these will rob and upset the natural living habitats of those animals who were originally living there.
How is that saving any animals? IMO, that's far worse than eating meat.
In fact, this will even make their species go endangered, then extinct.



Plants have feelings, plants have life, plants are sentient beings.
The vegan movement conveniently label plants as eatable because they "don't feel pain".
Ok, what if they do??! Are these "vegans" going to cry, vomit out every plant they ate, then start eating concrete next?



I don't agree with eating food while it's alive (it's gross btw). But then again, this is Nature, and Nature IS cruel. Hyenas always start by eating the bellies of the animals they kill, while it's alive. Now, if you use a gun to chase the hyenas away to save the baby buffalo, you'll starve and kill many hyenas. What then?

You know those people who go vegan? I'm concerned about their mental health.

Why?

Because everytime when meal time comes, they ask things like:

"Is this dish vegan"?
"Is that safe for vegans"?
"Is the truffles vegan-friendly?"
"Is the knife used to cut that spinach stem vegan-certified?"

Check the labels. Google for details. Research all the way right down to the source. All before they eat each meal.

Check out this site: 37 Foods and Ingredients to Avoid on a Vegan Diet

Look at the list of food that vegans can't eat.

Oh boy, what a way to live!

Oh my GGAAAWWWDDD.

Look. Even if the dish in the plate is 100% vegan-guaranteed, what about the plate?
Perhaps those plates came from a previous restaurant selling steak, which closed down and sold their assets, and now the new owner of the vegan restaurant overlooked that, buys these plates and uses the same plates to serve the vegan meals?

What about the chef preparing the vegan meal for you?
Perhaps the vegan restaurant got too busy and they had no choice but to hire Tom Lard, who loves eating lamb chops, to assist in the kitchen to prepare the vegan meals. Would vegans eat meals from Tom Lard? Would they even know?

Madness.

There is no such thing as a "vegan". To be a vegan would mean the inability to co-exist with Nature and the greater world. Humankind was created by Nature to be an Omnivore, not a herbivore.
Let's not perverse the course of Nature.

The way I see all these vegan shit and new-age nonsense (radical feminism included) going on in some countries, it seems to be a sign of societal decay.

Oohhh mama-mia!!!!!!

Your ignorance is astounding. As is your use of logical fallacies. I could teach a class on it.

Your post reflects exactly what I mentioned above. The people replying in this thread wouldn't be vegans sharing their experience (someone like me) but from triggered meat-eaters who want to propagate the status quo and its propaganda, while simultaneously protecting their dissonance (and their cravings) rather than face a reality.

Why do you care what another man chooses to eat? How he delineates his morality?

So much so that you would waste 20 minutes of your life writing a wall of text?

Why do YOU feel threatened?

Like religion and politics, your reply clearly indicates that this forum is incapable of having an adult conversation about it. This topic is as polarizing so it fits in that box. It's no different than arguing with a devout religious fanatic that his God in the sky isn't real or that Noah had penguins in his ark, or that putting a 90% tax on billionaires is a good idea.

I don't use this forum to promote a vegan agenda and I have no plans to do so in the future.

However, I also won't sit by idly and watch people use the forum to promote their snarky ignorance on a topic where the extent of their knowledge is not evidentiary or experiential, but from tradition and culture.

My advice to the OP...

If you need validation from others to go vegan, you won't find it -- you won't find it as much as you wont find validation in society for you to quit your job and start a business.

Do the research, seek out the truth (and what goes on behind closed doors) and do what works for you. I don't believe a plant-based diet is for everyone and harbor no ill-will at someone who can't find it agreeable. You have to do what works for you -- both for morality sake and for your health. Be led by those objectives and you will make the right decisions.

Good luck.
 
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