They want to amend the IL constitution to eAT tHE rICH

[James Klymus]

What doesn't help is that the average person has no clue how taxation works at the corporate level.

Your average person, and literally EVERYONE I've talked to about the subject, thinks that companies pay "zero tax" because "loopholes".

They really don't like it when you explain that Amazon has paid literally billions in tax, it just happens to not SPECIFICALLY be "income tax". By the time I start explaining how you can't tax profit if there is none they've already moved onto other arguments, moved the goal posts, or simply said "well it's still not right".

What's worse is that if you google "how much tax does (company) pay", you get 99% of articles explaining that they paid zero, how immoral it is, how much they earned vs the zero they paid, etc... You practically have to look at their damn year end finance report to find the amounts they've paid in other taxes. Nobody is reporting on how much they DID pay, just how much they DIDN'T, despite that being a number that doesn't matter because it didn't apply!

Not to mention that anything the owner, managers, or employees bring home is taxed, every purchase the company makes is taxed, all real estate the company owns is taxed, etc, etc, etc...

Companies pay tax. A lot of it. Just not "income tax". Because you can't pay tax on $0. It's really not hard to grasp.

But all the media and misconception leaves people thinking that rich people and companies pay literally nothing in tax. This makes it easier to support silly "tax the rich" concepts. Education in this area really needs to be increased.

I don't like to get conspiratorial, But I don't think "the system" (School, government) will ever teach the general pop. how taxes work. 1. Because it's boring and convoluted 2. Because if you stay stupid and repeat the "Tax the rich!" bromide, Then politicians can campaign on the basis of increasing taxes on those mean old business owners. Keep people distracted and purposely don't educate them on it.

 

[Cyberthal]

> When these people vote for this shit, Why do they not understand that wealthy people have the means and connections to just pick up and leave, and take their money and tax revenue with them?

They target is the middle class, because they're the system's easy prey. Suckers who can't move. "Tax the rich" is a distraction.

 

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[WJK]

I couldn't care less about public policy concerning "education." My only opinion is that they should be honest and rename it to obedience training and conditioning.

If my kids learn from me, of course, the world will label it "indoctrination." I call what public schools are doing "indoctrination."

Go look up and read the pledge of allegiance. My kids aren't saying that shit. I can't believe I did without thought.

They'll all say it is privilege that my kids got to learn from me. SO WHAT? Parents should be responsible to, and set examples for, their children. We don't have kids to create wards of the state. Identical drones of parroted statism. Why even have kids if this is what parenting is about?

They will be fortunate enough to be born into a home that believes in freedom and self-education. It is part of the legacy I can share. God only knows if my kids will ever be allowed to be my financial beneficiaries. If that is going to be how it goes, they damn sure will benefit from my name.

The question lies with who is right and who is wrong. Freedom, my friends, is right. No argument. You believe in freedom or you're wrong.

All of this said, my kids will never set foot in a public school building, which the mere existence of, churns my stomach.

Stupidity is the reason for the world's problems. Assumed and default education is the reason for stupidity.

Do you have kids? If so, are they school age?

Yes, public schools haven't changed much in many years. And the educational establishment has a vested interest in keeping it going on in the future. The system was built to supply compliant workers to the industrial age. Being on time and finishing assigned tasks, determined by a chain of command, was important to the keeping the production lines moving in Americans. They needed workers who could read instructions and follow them without question. It wasn't stupid -- it was pragmatic. This was in contrast to the archetype of the rough, individualist American who tamed the wilderness. The life skills were completely different.
.
My maternal grandparents each only had about 3 years of school. They prized education because their lives were restricted to doing only physical work due to their lack of education. On the other hand, my dad's family were very educated and were community leaders in their part of the world. (Yes, my mother was stunning blond who was also smart.) My parents spent their lives going to school and improving their lot in life. And so have I. I got the message early. When I was young, higher education was one of the only paths leading to women becoming financially independent.

Now, education and information is available at my finger tips on the net. It's a whole new world. There is home schooling, on-line degrees, blogs, streaming podcasts TED talks, audio books, Indie book writers, and a whole host of ways to gain knowledge. How about a forum where we talk about our business challenges and get immediate feedback from others climbing the same or a similar mountain? For us who love to learn, it's like being a kid in a candy store...

 

[BellaPippin]

So uh.. I just got this as a pamphlet in the mail, they want to change the flat rate income tax in IL to be able to randomly assign a tax rate to "the wealthy" and the arguments "pro-change" they give....... it's like Bernie wrote it. Idk, you be the judge. Somewhere in a deep forest a bald eagle loses a feather (?)
@Kak

https://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/con_amend/ca_english.pdf

​

 

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[BellaPippin]

Move to Indiana. I grew up outside Indianapolis (living in Utah now), you won't have to deal with that there.

Well personally I won't be affected. It starts at 250k/yr income. *cries in poor* but I still think even if they increase their revenue they're just gonna suck it all up in useless government spending. The amendment doesn't even say something like "fine, but this difference HAS go straight to underserved neighborhoods schools". It just gives them the power to put an arbitrary rate for higher earners but no accountability or control for it.

 

[BellaPippin]

He exists, and lots of people on this forum are aspiring to be him (or Hank Rearden, I was always more about his style anyway)

We all have a crush on Hank Rearden, duh. In my mind he looks like Michael Fassbender and Jessica Chastain is Dagny Taggart.

 

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[BellaPippin]

We derailed this thread like a Taggart Continental train. DISPERSE, NOTHING TO SEE HERE

 

[BizyDad]

I see you really absorbed the Dagny Taggart can do spirit.

 

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[StrikingViper69]

Have you watched "The Men Who Built America"? It's a docu-series from The History Channel, from like... 2014 or so? If you haven't you're in for a treat.

I'll have to check this out!

 

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[Saavedra]

Because you (de jure) benefit from the protection and laws of the state. Human beings without government would kill, and steal from each other indiscriminately.

You mean like in a state sanctioned war? or a state sanctioned mass murder? carried out by state sanctioned humans full of social contract powers through the magic of militarism??

you wouldn't steal from your neighbor yourself. just get to an agreement with a bunch of socially contracted people, make up a majority of a random, big enough group of people, and voila, it is fine to steal from your neighbor now.

i didnt sign no social contract

 

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[James Klymus]

This. The U.S school system is so laughably bad; it's a stretch to even call it education at this point. I don't think it's conspiracy, I think it's just incompetence. Socialism inherently appeals to the ignorant, uneducated and lower class.

There's never been a better time for privatized education. We have the technology and teachers. Use the best teachers, videos, graphics, powerpoints, worksheets. Why settle for mediocre and bloated school systems? Anyone with an internet connection should have access to a QUALITY education, irrespective of where they live.

Things started to go downhill when we stopped following the Greek and Roman models and those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Well a lot of people here in America seem to be against school choice and private education. I wonder why? Maybe because it's become an indoctrination not an education.

 

[BellaPippin]

I quoted the Bible and Spiderman, so it not like I was espousing any grand economic theory.

This is even funnier taken out of context

 

[Kevin88660]

The business oligarch that take in billion dollar subsidy, gov contracts, grants I think it is the main issue. You cannot tax your way out of a spending problem.

Apple is going to park its money in Ireland and paying less tax than it should...if not there will would be more money spent on Military contractors blowing up used jeeps to claim reimbursement+profit.

More tax dollar thrown at a corrupt game is not going to solve the problem. The system needs to be cleaned up first.

 

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[abcdefgh]

So uh.. I just got this as a pamphlet in the mail, they want to change the flat rate income tax in IL to be able to randomly assign a tax rate to "the wealthy" and the arguments "pro-change" they give....... it's like Bernie wrote it. Idk, you be the judge. Somewhere in a deep forest a bald eagle loses a feather (?)
@Kak

https://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/con_amend/ca_english.pdf

View attachment 34902​

Move to Indiana. I grew up outside Indianapolis (living in Utah now), you won't have to deal with that there.

 

[Alleghenyman]

Illinois is one of the states most at risk of going bankrupt due to borrowing and pension obligations that it will have trouble refinancing in bond markets.

 

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[Kid]

Funny thing is that,like all idealistic movements, it will end in something worse than most would expect.
How, you may ask.

The direct result of such way of doing is that people want free money from those "evil" businessman. Ok, they will get 'em at first.
Then the magic happens, no one wants to do business anymore. Why should he/she?
He can have handouts from gov and boom! No work ever!
So suddenly there is no workforce.
How would you have your bread and ham on your plate when there is no-one to have a farm?
Well, and here's the magic: you will have to force somebody to do so.
Yes you will have to choose someone, chain him and whip into work.
So in all hate and with righteous ideas
people will become masters and minorities will become slaves.
Slaves will work and majority will benefits.
Does this rings a bell to you?

By fighting monsters they will become one.

So if you want to have a one liner about such topic, then here it is. When you ask them why they do this and they say they fluff, answer them: "No! You want to be as monstrous as those rich!"... maybe except the fact that rich minority is hated by poor majority and they want the opposite - be like by everyone except those who will be forced to work in labor camps.

How about that for a idealistic view of world.

And btw. its also good for you to think that for yourself, it will give you clear mind about what people do.

P.S. You might put on your shades and say it will never happen. Never is a funny word. Wasn't it 1984 when Orwell wrote about Big Brother? Let me explain, that's exactly 36 years ago.
And you know what? There is one little country of 1.5 Billion people that is doing just that.
Never... that's very shortsighted word.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Who is John Galt?

He exists, and lots of people on this forum are aspiring to be him (or Hank Rearden, I was always more about his style anyway)

 

[BellaPippin]

Not with that kind of attitude you won't.

"Well personally I won't be affected, yet."

There I fixed it for you.

Right, when they get to the 50k bracket I'm toast.

Jk I know what u mean

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

You will get there, just like Dagny. Might have to deal with incompetent losers like James, but honestly, she just steam rolled right by them. Takes time and effort, but it’s doable

 

[Kid]

Should I tell him

It was written 35 years earlier

 

[BellaPippin]

I listened to the autobiography of Henry Ford a bit ago, and am now working my way through JD Rockefeller. Its almost as if Atlas Shrugged was written about these various titans of industry back then...

Have you watched "The Men Who Built America"? It's a docu-series from The History Channel, from like... 2014 or so? If you haven't you're in for a treat.

 

[Jon L]

Have you watched "The Men Who Built America"? It's a docu-series from The History Channel, from like... 2014 or so? If you haven't you're in for a treat.

I did...that was awesome. So cool to see the perspective they had. It was like a giant chess board, and they were all thinking 10 steps ahead.

 

[socaldude]

This Prop 208 thing actually has made it quite a possibility.

California expats will vote it in with extreme prejudice.

 

[Kid]

They target is the middle class, because they're the system's easy prey.

And its much more tangible. You've seen someone who rides better car or has bigger house. If they would say "Tax billionaires" everybody would go "Huh?"

 

[Cyberthal]

The interesting thing is that the white working class has moved out the Democrat (inner) party and into the target zone of "middle class", attacked from above and below by the high-low alliance of elites and lower class.

They're certainly rich enough for it, by global and historical standards. Down with the petit bourgeoisie!

I like to think that they've finally achieved the American dream. You know your freedom is truly excessive when the machine of tyranny hunts you down like the former free tribes of North America. Envy is the unstoppable political force; idiocy is the immovable political object.

Despite the technology-adjusted decline in living standards I feel like someone should congratulate these guys for making it into the middle class. And they didn't even have to go to college!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I was considering moving to Arizona. Should I reconsider?

I can't make that decision for you, it's a highly personal one. But that said, I'll take Arizona any day over some big city... it has a lot of pluses, if it didn't, I wouldn't have spent half my life here. I'm almost looking at this potential move as Chapter 3 in my life; Chapter 1 was Chicago, Chapter 2 was Arizona, and Chapter 3, the final phase, is ????

Now, education and information is available at my finger tips on the net. It's a whole new world. There is home schooling, on-line degrees, blogs, streaming podcasts TED talks, audio books, Indie book writers, and a whole host of ways to gain knowledge. How about a forum where we talk about our business challenges and get immediate feedback from others climbing the same or a similar mountain? For us who love to learn, it's like being a kid in a candy store...

Amen!

 

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[Cyberthal]

Rulers should tax the borders. It's their job to watch them and search and hassle people crossing them anyway. Inserting the Fed's proboscis into everyone's business is accepted in the same way that other grossly hierarchical societies were accepted by their subjects.

Border taxes encourage community self-sufficiency, which is good. Subsidiarity works. That's why your body is made of cells and organs, instead of the brain running each mitochondria.

The USA is in the process of rediscovering internal borders. After enough random politically-sanctioned acts of violence by transient strangers, folks will decide that maybe it's best to know thy neighbor from thy invader.

But in order to get from here to there, one needs a dark age first! The fall of the Soviet Union was Very Exciting, but I think the USA's will be even Bigger, especially since there will be No Globo-cop to pick up the pieces this time! I really can't wait to see human nature reassert itself after its stint under the stultifying New York Times. What happens to Mutually Assured Destruction when the guy with his finger on the button goes MAD? The Russians loved their children too, but do the Boomers? One doubts it.

Everyone talks about Soviet Communist insanity, but the worst of that ended with Stalin, pre-nukes. We live in the truly exciting time of the first nuclear superpower entering a terminal Left singularity. This could really accelerate the global decline in wildlife fauna in the short term, but Chernobyl indicates that Nature is better than Man at tolerating the high-rad lifestyle! Stock up on vodka, just in case.

 

[LuckyPup]

So uh.. I just got this as a pamphlet in the mail, they want to change the flat rate income tax in IL to be able to randomly assign a tax rate to "the wealthy" and the arguments "pro-change" they give....... it's like Bernie wrote it. Idk, you be the judge. Somewhere in a deep forest a bald eagle loses a feather (?)
@Kak

https://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/con_amend/ca_english.pdf

View attachment 34902​

I was born and raised in IL. My sister and bother-in-law still do. He recently called IL a "great state." I asked him what was great about it, and his canned reply was something about "Lincoln, breadbasket of America, blah-blah-blah." I asked what makes it great NOW. Crickets.

Dunno why anyone would still live there. Get out now!

 

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[LuckyPup]

Rulers should tax the borders. It's their job to watch them and search and hassle people crossing them anyway. Inserting the Fed's proboscis into everyone's business is accepted in the same way that other grossly hierarchical societies were accepted by their subjects.

Border taxes encourage community self-sufficiency, which is good. Subsidiarity works. That's why your body is made of cells and organs, instead of the brain running each mitochondria.

The USA is in the process of rediscovering internal borders. After enough random politically-sanctioned acts of violence by transient strangers, folks will decide that maybe it's best to know thy neighbor from thy invader.

But in order to get from here to there, one needs a dark age first! The fall of the Soviet Union was Very Exciting, but I think the USA's will be even Bigger, especially since there will be No Globo-cop to pick up the pieces this time! I really can't wait to see human nature reassert itself after its stint under the stultifying New York Times. What happens to Mutually Assured Destruction when the guy with his finger on the button goes MAD? The Russians loved their children too, but do the Boomers? One doubts it.

Everyone talks about Soviet Communist insanity, but the worst of that ended with Stalin, pre-nukes. We live in the truly exciting time of the first nuclear superpower entering a terminal Left singularity. This could really accelerate the global decline in wildlife fauna in the short term, but Chernobyl indicates that Nature is better than Man at tolerating the high-rad lifestyle! Stock up on vodka, just in case.

Proboscis is SUCH an appropriate word!

 

[BellaPippin]

I was born and raised in IL. My sister and bother-in-law still do. He recently called IL a "great state." I asked him what was great about it, and his canned reply was something about "Lincoln, breadbasket of America, blah-blah-blah." I asked what makes it great NOW. Crickets.

Dunno why anyone would still live there. Get out now!

I've just always liked the city since I moved here, I guess since my involvement in this things is less than appropriate that's why I've never given it thought. My knowledge on these matters are pretty limited, not going to lie; it's also kind of difficult to find a "IL for dummies" or pretty much anything that wouldn't be biased. I'm also biased unintentionally because I moved here 10 years ago, and in comparison to my run down country I live like a queen here, modest income and everything.

That said my boyfriend has kids and they live here so moving isn't an option, at least for now. But he does have family in NM and I've asked him if he could pick to move somewhere he'd like to go where his dad is. But it wouldn't be an option until kids are grown up. As for me again I just don't mind. I like where I live.

THIS IS GRAND AND STATE. DOORS OPEN ON THE RIGHT, AT GRAND AND STATE.​