The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[Timmy C]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGbYHJcMbz8&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0aJPJp9xD_bot9WEBHScRtLWZa4FMXGZocsFEavL2N1Np-SPnZ8S1rwKM

Rashid Buttar
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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Rashid Buttar is an American osteopathic physician from Charlotte, North Carolina. He is known for his controversial use of chelation therapy for numerous conditions, including autism and cancer.[1] He has been reprimanded by the North Carolina Board of Medical Examiners for unethical treatment of patients, charging four cancer patients exorbitant fees for unncessary tests and treatments, and mistreating four patients whom he falsely diagnosed with mercury toxicity.[2]. He was sued by the U.S. Justice Department in 1997 for failing to repay a $113,783.59 military scholarship obligation. In 1999, the case was settled with a consent agreement under which he agreed to pay $115,500 [3].
Buttar was born in London in 1966 and immigrated with his parents to the U.S. at the age of 9. He attended Washington University, graduating with a degree in biology and theology, and then earned his degree in osteopathy at Des Moines University. According to his website, he worked as a surgeon with the U.S. Army for several years but did not achieve any medical qualification.[4]
He came to public attention in 2009 when he used chelation therapy on a woman named Desiree Jennings, who claimed to have lost her ability to walk or talk normally after receiving a flu shot.[1][5] He has been criticized for his use of chelation,[1] and for his use of intravenous hydrogen peroxide to treat cancer.[6]
In 2007, Buttar was charged by the North Carolina Board of Medical Examiners with unethical treatment of four cancer patients.[7] The panel recommended that Buttar's "license be suspended indefinitely, but that the suspension be immediately stayed".[8] In 2010 the board, in response to this and other concerns, chose to formally reprimand Buttar but allowed him to continue to practice.[2][9]



Sounds like a credible guy!

Rashid Buttar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

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[MTF]

Are you talking about the one that Stanford conducted to test the local population for antibodies?

Yes. If you read the comments under the study you'll notice there's a lot of criticism, a lot of it valid. I agree with your point of view but only sound science should be employed to prove the point that all of it as an overreaction. A non peer-reviewed preprint with a questionable method of recruiting volunteers is weak evidence.

 

[David Harrison]

Okay, guys, I know the topic is "Corona" but have a look at this vid' and afterwards make a list of all the changes that are going to take effect during and after the "lockdown".

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJTnqbkgmAE

 

[Kak]

I guess it is widely known that if both parties are wearing a mask, the transmission rate of COVID is as low as 2%.

Antibody tests are staggeringly high among folks that are tested. Non-clinical cases are the majority.

The death rate is staggeringly lower than initially anticipated.

It is time to end this F*cking scam.

 

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[Trevor Kuntz]

It is time to end this F*cking scam.

What is the scam?

 

[ChrisV]

His Obituary:



https://www.snyderfuneralhomes.com/obituary/john-w-mcdaniel/

R.I.P. Buddy. This is why this stuff is so upsetting.

 

[Kak]

What is the scam?

This is "The Green New Deal" they did it and the majority cheered.

 

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[WillHurtDontCare]

Rashid Buttar
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to navigationJump to search
Rashid Buttar is an American osteopathic physician from Charlotte, North Carolina. He is known for his controversial use of chelation therapy for numerous conditions, including autism and cancer.[1] He has been reprimanded by the North Carolina Board of Medical Examiners for unethical treatment of patients, charging four cancer patients exorbitant fees for unncessary tests and treatments, and mistreating four patients whom he falsely diagnosed with mercury toxicity.[2]. He was sued by the U.S. Justice Department in 1997 for failing to repay a $113,783.59 military scholarship obligation. In 1999, the case was settled with a consent agreement under which he agreed to pay $115,500 [3].
Buttar was born in London in 1966 and immigrated with his parents to the U.S. at the age of 9. He attended Washington University, graduating with a degree in biology and theology, and then earned his degree in osteopathy at Des Moines University. According to his website, he worked as a surgeon with the U.S. Army for several years but did not achieve any medical qualification.[4]
He came to public attention in 2009 when he used chelation therapy on a woman named Desiree Jennings, who claimed to have lost her ability to walk or talk normally after receiving a flu shot.[1][5] He has been criticized for his use of chelation,[1] and for his use of intravenous hydrogen peroxide to treat cancer.[6]
In 2007, Buttar was charged by the North Carolina Board of Medical Examiners with unethical treatment of four cancer patients.[7] The panel recommended that Buttar's "license be suspended indefinitely, but that the suspension be immediately stayed".[8] In 2010 the board, in response to this and other concerns, chose to formally reprimand Buttar but allowed him to continue to practice.[2][9]



Sounds like a credible guy!

Rashid Buttar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've never heard of Rashid Buttar until now and I have no intention of caring about who he is in the future, but I will say that Wikipedia is hardly an unbiased source and under certain circumstances the flat out deliberately misrepresent people and topics.

When Wikipedia is the source of truth, you build your views on a house of sand.

(Though it is useful for getting ideas to test and for finding sources to evaluate further.)

 

[MTF]

R.I.P. Buddy. This is why this stuff is so upsetting.

With schools closed, tensions over childcare and at-home education can increase, making abusive relationships more dangerous, officials said.

In southeast Michigan’s Oakland County, prosecutors issued 99 domestic violence charges from April 1 to April 15, up from 67 during those two weeks in 2019.

“But of more interest is the fact that this is a county that doesn’t see more than 20 murders a year,” Oakland County Prosecutor Jessica Cooper told Bridge. “In the last two weeks, we have seen five, two of which were domestic.”

In one, a Hazel Park man is accused of strangling his wife after an argument in which she accused him of cheating. In the other, a Southfield man faces charges of shooting his girlfriend after a fight, leaving her daughter to report the crime to the police.

Mandated together time and financial stress can increase domestic violence, but this pandemic “is the granddaddy of them all” Cooper said.

Source: Stay home, don’t stay safe. Domestic violence calls up amid Michigan lockdown

More on the explosion of domestic violence, just one of the countless underreported sources of suffering and death as the world obsesses about the virus: A New C0VlD-19 Crisis: Domestic Abuse Rises Worldwide

R.I.P. poor women. This is why this stuff is so upsetting.

But who cares about the thousands of abused women suffering in silence. They don't make a good headline, just like thousands of people suffering from preventable diseases who will get diagnosed too late, people suffering in great pain waiting for their "elective" surgeries that might actually save their lives, and people dying at homes from cardiac arrests because they don't want to "overburden" the healthcare system.

Nobody matters at the moment except for coronavirus victims, right?

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

Anyone else wonder why a video game, Animal Crossing, is so popular during this time?

"Late one night recently, a barrage of texts blew up my phone. They were from my friend Frank Lantz, the director of the NYU Game Center, who also designs cult games.

“I hate Animal Crossing,” Lantz’s opening message read.
He and his wife and collaborator, Hilary, had sat down to play it, looking for the same low-key, cute coziness that everyone else found comforting. “It is the most boring, long-winded, repetitive, condescending, infantile bullshit we’ve ever seen.” After a few more invectives, he posed a question: “Do people find comfort in tedious, bureaucratic, pandering authoritarianism?”

The answer, which Lantz knew before he asked, is: Of course they do. Americans in particular are addicted to bureaucracy’s directed control even as they cry yaps of independence and self-actualization."

The Quiet Revolution of Animal Crossing

In the midst of a pandemic, it’s delightful to imagine doing whatever you like without worrying about making a living.

www.theatlantic.com

This article was better than I had anticipated it to be. Thank you for posting it.

Civic life, after all, coheres not in abstract fantasies about politician-heroes, but in habitual practices that take place in real communities.

Man, the author hit the nail on the head with that one. I'd say that the worst part about living in screen world is that people end up spending too much time over things that they have no control over (the federal government, foreign wars, Wall Street, the lives of celebrity) and they become completely disconnected from the world that they could have influence over (their local community).

Ideas are supposed to be connected to action.

 

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[ChrisV]

More on the explosion of domestic violence, just one of the countless underreported sources of suffering and death as the world obsesses about the virus: A New C0VlD-19 Crisis: Domestic Abuse Rises Worldwide

That's a very unfortunate report, but violent crime in general is down nationally.



Although regardless yes, that is sad.

 

[MTF]

Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) pollution [learn more] "may be one of the most important contributors to fatality caused by the C0VlD-19" a recent study [source] found after analyzing death cases from 66 administrative regions in Italy, Spain, France, and Germany. "Results show that out of the 4443 fatality cases, 3487 (78%) were in five regions located in north Italy and central Spain. Additionally, the same five regions show the highest NO2 concentrations combined with downwards airflow which prevent an efficient dispersion of air pollution. These results indicate that the long-term exposure to this pollutant may be one of the most important contributors to fatality caused by the C0VlD-19 virus in these regions and maybe across the whole world." [source]

• 83% of all fatalities (3701 cases) occurred in regions where the maximum NO2 concentration was above 100 μmol/m2
• 15.5% (691 cases) occurred in regions where the maximum NO2 concentration was between 50 and 100 μmol/m2
• 1.5% of all fatalities (51 cases) occurred in regions where the maximum NO2 concentration was below 50 μmol/m2

It shall be noted that there are other potentially decisive factors, such as a higher population density or a higher rate of international travel, that are also typical characteristics of urban areas, in addition to higher levels of pollution.

Source: Coronavirus Update (Live): 2,478,947 Cases and 170,337 Deaths from C0VlD-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

 

[becks22]

Agree 100%, although violent crime is down. Domestic Violence is way up in almost every area of the globe. My area shelters are really hurting right because they don't have donations coming in and their money making programs like daycares are closed. The worst kind of side effect from something like this. Hopefully the nonsense gets out of the media and things like this which are more important get some light shined on them.

 

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[ravenspear]

Yes. If you read the comments under the study you'll notice there's a lot of criticism, a lot of it valid. I agree with your point of view but only sound science should be employed to prove the point that all of it as an overreaction. A non peer-reviewed preprint with a questionable method of recruiting volunteers is weak evidence.

I was skeptical of that Santa Clara county study as well because it included self selection, which is not good for making statistical predictions. You want random sampling.

However, we now have another study from LA county that appears to be showing similar results. Notably, this study did not have self selection, but it still wasn't fully random.

Hundreds of thousands in L.A. County may have been infected with coronavirus, study finds

Hundreds of thousands of L.A. County residents may have been infected with the coronavirus by early April, outpacing total of known cases, report says.

www.latimes.com

NYC is just starting a new study that will test 3000 people randomly selected at grocery stores. That should give us the best dataset yet when it is released.

New York begins widespread, random antibody testing, but questions remain about effectiveness and immunity

The testing could be key to restarting the economy, but scientists are not certain how much immunity an antibody test proves.

www.marketwatch.com

 

[ChrisV]

NYC is just starting a new study that will test 3000 people randomly selected at grocery stores. That should give us the best dataset yet when it is released.

We should have been doing randomized testing from the beginning. I don't give shit how limited the supply of tests are. It's impossible to establish any baselines otherwise.

 

[Trevor Kuntz]

Georgia will be the first major state to begin rolling back shelter-in-place restrictions. Gyms and bowling alleys will reopen on Friday followed by restaurants and movie theaters on Monday. All businesses will have to practice social distancing and enhanced cleaning.

Bars, concert venues, and nightclubs will remain closed.

Georgia Beginning To Reopen Its Economy, Lifting Some Coronavirus-Crisis Limits

Gov. Brian Kemp cited favorable data and more testing in his decision to reopen businesses such as gyms, tattoo parlors and hair salons this Friday. Pennsylvania and Tennessee also announced changes.

www.npr.org

 

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[Timmy C]

I've never heard of Rashid Buttar until now and I have no intention of caring about who he is in the future, but I will say that Wikipedia is hardly an unbiased source and under certain circumstances the flat out deliberately misrepresent people and topics.

When Wikipedia is the source of truth, you build your views on a house of sand.

(Though it is useful for getting ideas to test and for finding sources to evaluate further.)

Yeh that's why I pasted the info and where it was from.

And said " sounds like a trustworthy guy"

If I researched everything id never be able to work on my business, but my 2 minutes of research told me enough that I shouldn't believe what he says.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

Yeh that's why I pasted the info and where it was from.

And said " sounds like a trustworthy guy"

If I researched everything id never be able to work on my business, but my 2 minutes of research told me enough that I shouldn't believe what he says.

A little research can be more harmful than no research because when you do no research you know that you know nothing about the topic, whereas if you do a little research you get the impression that you do, even if you found a source that might be garbage.

 

[GIlman]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGbYHJcMbz8&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0aJPJp9xD_bot9WEBHScRtLWZa4FMXGZocsFEavL2N1Np-SPnZ8S1rwKM

The real issue I have with this Dr. and some others that promulgate similar things is that there is a huge logical incoherency with their arguments.

First they state that’s you can’t trust what you are being told, the science is rigged, the system is rigged, and your health is in jeopardy.

Then they tell you they have the real truth and you should believe them, even though there is no sound science to back up what they are saying, and even though their therapies are untested and may very well be unsafe as well as ineffective.

So according to them you should trust their gut, intuition, and scientifically unproven methods. But...you should also dismiss treatments with rigorous studies and data behind them. Makes perfect sense.

For the record, even though I am an MD, I am not a pill pusher. I think many people are way way over medicated. Seeing commercials on TV about drugs being promoted to counter the side effects of other drugs someone is on to me is crazy. But if or when I do take any medication or anyone in my immediate family is put on them, it’s the smallest dose for the shortest time possible. But if I do choose a therapy I’m looking for the treatment with the best studies and science behind it.

 

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[MTF]

NYC is just starting a new study that will test 3000 people randomly selected at grocery stores. That should give us the best dataset yet when it is released.

Do you think that even when a well-designed, trustworthy study confirms that mortality rate is around 0.1% or lower (as it eventually will), there will be a worldwide lifting of restrictions?

The virus has become the best political tool in decades, to push one's agenda or limit freedoms. I'm even seeing regular people on social media begging for the extension of the restrictions, which indicates that Stockholm syndrome for coronavirus lockdowns is now a thing.

 

[Timmy C]

Do you think that even when a well-designed, trustworthy study confirms that mortality rate is around 0.1% or lower (as it eventually will)

What makes you so sure this will be the case?

 

[MTF]

What makes you so sure this will be the case?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY


If you need a quick look into his background, there you go:

Johan Giesecke trained as an infectious disease clinician in Stockholm, Sweden during the 1980’s, and from his work with AIDS patients he became interested in the epidemiology of infectious diseases. He received an MSc in epidemiology from London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine in 1992, and then worked as a Senior Lecturer at the school for a few years. After this he became State Epidemiologist for Sweden (1995 to 2005) and during a one-year sabbatical 1999-2000 he led the group working on the revision of the International Health Regulations at WHO HQ. From 2005 to 2014 he was the first Chief Scientist of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC).

Professor Giesecke has written a textbook on infectious disease epidemiology, and now teaches on this subject as a professor emeritus at the Karolinska Institute Medical University in Stockholm.

source: Members of the Strategic and Technical Advisory Group for Infectious Hazards (STAG-IH)

 

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[100ToOne]

I find this phenomenon very interesting watching it from over here.

The people in the USA, as we can see here on this thread are fighting against governmental lock downs as a way of expressing their freedoms and their rights. And so did the people in Europe, where some governments didn't even dare to force lock downs because they saw that doing so is against the constitution and the people would definitely revolt against them.

It's also weird how Pres. Donald Trump wants to remove the lock downs, but the state mayors are fighting him against that. But what do the people of those states think?

Meanwhile in the Middle East generally and where I reside specifically, the governmental has done super harsh lock downs on everyone that you'll be locked up if you are caught going out to throw the trash, which is 5 meters from your main door.

Now is that right or wrong?

I don't know. I know for sure however, if this virus did spread in our country and we had the same amount of cases like Europe or the US, the country would go bankrupt overnight. Turmoil would run through every sector and every part of the society because they're already poor and corrupt.

Or would it?

Maybe it's just how our brains have been rewired due to long authoritarian rule, therefore that's what we believe will happen.

This is a very hard question.

The only observable thing is that the majority of nations do not trust their governments to allow them to force in more rules and restrictions, and those who don't mind didn't even have the freedom to revolt in the beginning.

In conclusion: REVOLT AGAINST THE LOCK DOWN.

peacefully lol

 

[GoodluckChuck]

Do you think that even when a well-designed, trustworthy study confirms that mortality rate is around 0.1% or lower (as it eventually will), there will be a worldwide lifting of restrictions?

The virus has become the best political tool in decades, to push one's agenda or limit freedoms. I'm even seeing regular people on social media begging for the extension of the restrictions, which indicates that Stockholm syndrome for coronavirus lockdowns is now a thing.

I think a lot of people are enjoying getting paid to watch Netflix all day. They are also scared because they watch the news. Even before this pandemic we had a lot of people in the world that want mama gov to take care of everything. It's not surprising that the majority of us in an entrepreneur forum would rather have the freedom to take care of things ourselves.

 

[NovaAria]

I find this phenomenon very interesting watching it from over here.

The people in the USA, as we can see here on this thread are fighting against governmental lock downs as a way of expressing their freedoms and their rights. And so did the people in Europe, where some governments didn't even dare to force lock downs because they saw that doing so is against the constitution and the people would definitely revolt against them.

It's also weird how Pres. Donald Trump wants to remove the lock downs, but the state mayors are fighting him against that. But what do the people of those states think?

Meanwhile in the Middle East generally and where I reside specifically, the governmental has done super harsh lock downs on everyone that you'll be locked up if you are caught going out to throw the trash, which is 5 meters from your main door.

Now is that right or wrong?

I don't know. I know for sure however, if this virus did spread in our country and we had the same amount of cases like Europe or the US, the country would go bankrupt overnight. Turmoil would run through every sector and every part of the society because they're already poor and corrupt.

Or would it?

Maybe it's just how our brains have been rewired due to long authoritarian rule, therefore that's what we believe will happen.

This is a very hard question.

The only observable thing is that the majority of nations do not trust their governments to allow them to force in more rules and restrictions, and those who don't mind didn't even have the freedom to revolt in the beginning.

In conclusion: REVOLT AGAINST THE LOCK DOWN.

peacefully lol

Each country is a different story, really.
Other than the local pollution, obesity ratios and genetic make up, one factor that differs hugely from one country to the other is hospital bed availability. Some countries had way more than what they expected to need, others can barely handle the normal load.
Of course, no government would waste the opportunity to go full 1984, but third world governments have a... "predisposition" for such behavior anyway.

 

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[Kak]

Beaumont Health offers blood antibody testing to 38,000 employees, inpatients

Southfield, Mich.-based Beaumont Health is offering to test employees' blood as part of a study of C0VlD-19 antibodies.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

More reports of asymptomatic/super mild non-clinical cases... I bet millions upon millions have the antibodies at this point. I seriously am excited to get the test myself.

I feel scammed.

 

[Trevor Kuntz]

Beaumont Health offers blood antibody testing to 38,000 employees, inpatients

Southfield, Mich.-based Beaumont Health is offering to test employees' blood as part of a study of C0VlD-19 antibodies.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

More reports of asymptomatic/super mild non-clinical cases... I bet millions upon millions have the antibodies at this point. I seriously am excited to get the test myself.

I feel scammed.

If only tests were as cheap and as plentiful as barrels of West Texas crude

 

[Kak]

If only tests were as cheap and as plentiful as barrels of West Texas crude

Oh my gosh. No kidding. I’d pay a pretty obscene amount of money for two of them.

 

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[GIlman]

There is an abnormal number of young people (<50) getting seriously sick and dying.

But....the question right now is the denominator. Different studies have suggested the denominator anywhere from 23-83x the known cases. However the issues with all these studies is sampling bias, which is at the root of the variability and also means it could be > 83 and less than 23. Maybe greatly do

But...the real scary thing to me is how some health experts are interpreting this. Here is a direct quote from an article on fox.

“Though the results indicate a lower risk of death among those with infection than was previously thought, the number of COVID-related deaths each day continues to mount, highlighting the need for continued vigorous prevention and control efforts,” said Paul Simon, chief science officer at the L.A. County Department of Public Health and co-lead on the study.

What horsesh$t. Any disease with a death rate > 0 the deaths will continue to mount each day-that’s 100% given. You could for instance make the same claim about death from eating hotdogs, the deaths continue to mount over time (which is true). Some percentage of people die over time from choking on a hotdog. But we pay little attention to the risks of hotdog eating.

The question is what the relative risk to the general population is. What is the percent of the population that dies from the infection (or from choking on a hotdog). Even better stratify it by age group to build meaningful policies. E.g. most parents cut up hotdogs into small pieces for children to reduce the risk of choking on this vulnerable population.

Look, if these studies prove true, the death rate is indeed up to 2 orders of magnitude lower than previously said, then this is NOT evidence to continue on the current course. It IS evidence that you need a course correction and change of policy. Any politician/dr/health expert/etc stupid enough or eager to use the fact that people ARE dying but ignoring the scale and scope of death should be immediately tuned out and ignored. This tells you they have a political bias or agenda and that it’s no longer about the disease - that they are playing a different game than allegedly protecting the safety of the public.

 

[MTF]

Look, if these studies prove true, the death rate is indeed up to 2 orders of magnitude lower than previously said, then this is NOT evidence to continue on the current course. It IS evidence that you need a course correction and change of policy. Any politician/dr/health expert/etc stupid enough or eager to use the fact that people ARE dying but ignoring the scale and scope of death should be immediately tuned out and ignored. This tells you they have a political bias or agenda and that it’s no longer about the disease - that they are playing a different game than allegedly protecting the safety of the public.

This is the most terrifying and frustrating thing about all of this and exactly what I had in mind when I wrote this:

Do you think that even when a well-designed, trustworthy study confirms that mortality rate is around 0.1% or lower (as it eventually will), there will be a worldwide lifting of restrictions?

The virus has become the best political tool in decades, to push one's agenda or limit freedoms. I'm even seeing regular people on social media begging for the extension of the restrictions, which indicates that Stockholm syndrome for coronavirus lockdowns is now a thing.

And this is not just for the USA; the virus is a very convenient tool for governments all around the world. With a brainwashed, scared population, it might be very hard for things to get back to normal—no matter how much solid evidence comes out that a course correction is sorely needed.