The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[biophase]

Is this not reasonable though?

I don't see how it could be reasonable. If someone has 2 homes, how can the government tell you which one of your homes to stay in? If I live 6 months in each home, then which one can I live in during this time?

The reasons they give for making you leave also don't make any sense. The county should have enough facilities for their residents. If they are going to build more homes and charge me property taxes, I'd assume that they would have the infrastructure to support people actually living in the homes.

 

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[Timmy C]

If I see the word "nothingburger" again in this thread it's a strong possibility I will throw my computer out the window.

 

[Vigilante]

If I see the word "nothingburger" again in this thread it's a strong possibility I will throw my computer out the window.

You're clear for the better part of a week.

 

[ChickenHawk]

Remember early in the thread when we were comparing the virus to other causes of death? It's interesting to see how much has changed since then.*



*A note of clarification: The non-Covid numbers (such as for kidney disease) are annual averages, and thus, do not change between these two charts. C0VlD-19, in contrast, is new and has no average. Once Covid has 12 months of history, it's unlikely to claim the top spot. (Let's hope so, anyway.) But this quick comparison is still pretty interesting. Regardless of how it plays out, the term "nothing burger" should be soundly mocked in relationship to this virus.

 

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[MoneyDoc]

Remember early in the thread when we were comparing the virus to other causes of death? It's interesting to see how much has changed since then.*

View attachment 32094

*A note of clarification: The non-Covid numbers (such as for kidney disease) are annual averages, and thus, do not change between these two charts. C0VlD-19, in contrast, is new and has no average. Once Covid has 12 months of history, it's unlikely to claim the top spot. (Let's hope so, anyway.) But this quick comparison is still pretty interesting. Regardless of how it plays out, the term "nothing burger" should be soundly mocked in relationship to this virus.

Then there’s no point in creating a hysterical chart to feed more negativity.

 

[Vigilante]

Epidemiologist: Coronavirus could be ‘exterminated’ if lockdowns were lifted | The College Fix

‘Going outdoors is what stops every respiratory disease.’…

www.thecollegefix.com

 

[ChrisV]

https://www.tableau.com/C0VlD-19-coronavirus-data-resources

 

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[1step]

Today on Overstepping Government Agents:

Philadelphia man not wearing face mask seen being dragged off bus

A viral video shows police dragging a Philadelphia man off a bus on Friday, seemingly in violation of coronavirus policy at the time.

www.foxnews.com

"Police initially responded to “calls of a disturbance" after the passenger was repeatedly asked to leave the bus but refused. The man was not wearing a mask, violating the Southeastern Philadelphia Transportation Authority’s (SEPTA's) mandate at the time -- which has since been relaxed to "strongly encourage" riders to wear face coverings and gloves, not require it. "

 

[c_morris]

Epidemiologist: Coronavirus could be ‘exterminated’ if lockdowns were lifted | The College Fix

‘Going outdoors is what stops every respiratory disease.’…

www.thecollegefix.com

Best thing I've read since this all started!

“Well, I’m not paid by the government, so I’m entitled to actually do science.”

 

[Thoelt53]

Is this not reasonable though?

Not at all when you supposedly live in a free country.

Our freedoms are self evident and given to us by God, not the government. The Constitution was written to explicitly state that the government has ZERO authority to deny people their basic rights.

Remember early in the thread when we were comparing the virus to other causes of death? It's interesting to see how much has changed since then.*

View attachment 32094

*A note of clarification: The non-Covid numbers (such as for kidney disease) are annual averages, and thus, do not change between these two charts. C0VlD-19, in contrast, is new and has no average. Once Covid has 12 months of history, it's unlikely to claim the top spot. (Let's hope so, anyway.) But this quick comparison is still pretty interesting. Regardless of how it plays out, the term "nothing burger" should be soundly mocked in relationship to this virus.

The problem with that chart is it sensationalizes the issue, creating fear and a situation far more dangerous than the virus itself. This brewing situation is making the virus look like a “nothingburger.”

Of those 1,940 daily C0VlD-19 deaths how many were people with heart disease, cancer and chronic lung disease? Almost of all them!

We’re not distinguishing dying from C0VlD-19 vs dying with C0VlD-19. Further considering that this year’s flu is practically at a pandemic level, how many of those C0VlD-19 deaths concurrently had influenza infections as well?

It’s also fairly well documented at this point that C0VlD-19 death numbers are being fudged to be way higher than in actuality.

We’re being lied to across the board and it’s working. Most people are have bought the farce and will do whatever they’re told. Stand in the “breadline” at the supermarket, don’t leave your house, snitch on your neighbors, don’t wear a mask, do wear a mask, don’t take vitamin D or C because they don’t do anything.... the list goes on and on. These lockdowns are only exacerbating the disease by further weakening people’s immune systems.

I see people walking outdoors, alone, with no one around, wearing masks. Driving in their cars, alone, wearing masks. It’s insanity. They’ve been lied to and fooled. They’re scared.

Fear has been deliberately struck into people to make them malleable. This is the precipice of America and the West as we know it.

Before the morality parade comes through and chastises me for being apathetic, I am not saying that C0VlD-19 isn’t real, nor do I not have sympathy for those suffering from this illness. I have family members infected whom are high risk and I do worry I may lose them without being able to see them again.

My concern is that this virus is being used to influence, control and subvert our nation. And that is the most terrifying thing to happen thus far in our lifetimes. Many of us may lose parents and grandparents to C0VlD-19. That loss pales in comparison to what we will experience going forward if We the People don’t speak up. Should we cower in fear and not think critically, the systemic horrors of the future will stretch beyond our generation and on to the generation of our great-grandchildren. Perhaps beyond.

 

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[Vigilante]

Best thing I've read since this all started!

“Well, I’m not paid by the government, so I’m entitled to actually do science.”

I sent that to a few friends and that is the exact sentence that I pulled out of it also… Beautifully accurate

 

[Vigilante]

Chicago: 30-50% Of Those Tested For #C0VlD-19 Already Have Antibodies #OpenTheCounty

“A phlebotomist working at Roseland Community Hospital said Thursday that 30% to 50% of patients tested for the coronavirus have antibodies while only around 10% to 20% of those tested have the active virus,” Chicago City Wire reported Thursday.

 

[MoneyDoc]

Not at all when you supposedly live in a free country.

Our freedoms are self evident and given to us by God, not the government. The Constitution was written to explicitly state that the government has ZERO authority to deny people their basic rights.


The problem with that chart is it sensationalizes the issue, creating fear and a situation far more dangerous than the virus itself. This brewing situation is making the virus look like a “nothingburger.”

Of those 1,940 daily C0VlD-19 deaths how many were people with heart disease, cancer and chronic lung disease? Almost of all them!

We’re not distinguishing dying from C0VlD-19 vs dying with C0VlD-19. Further considering that this year’s flu is practically at a pandemic level, how many of those C0VlD-19 deaths concurrently had influenza infections as well?

It’s also fairly well documented at this point that C0VlD-19 death numbers are being fudged to be way higher than in actuality.

We’re being lied to across the board and it’s working. Most people are have bought the farce and will do whatever they’re told. Stand in the “breadline” at the supermarket, don’t leave your house, snitch on your neighbors, don’t wear a mask, do wear a mask, don’t take vitamin D or C because they don’t do anything.... the list goes on and on. These lockdowns are only exacerbating the disease by further weakening people’s immune systems.

I see people walking outdoors, alone, with no one around, wearing masks. Driving in their cars, alone, wearing masks. It’s insanity. They’ve been lied to and fooled. They’re scared.

Fear has been deliberately struck into people to make them malleable. This is the precipice of America and the West as we know it.

Before the morality parade comes through and chastises me for being apathetic, I am not saying that C0VlD-19 isn’t real, nor do I not have sympathy for those suffering from this illness. I have family members infected whom are high risk and I do worry I may lose them without being able to see them again.

My concern is that this virus is being used to influence, control and subvert our nation. And that is the most terrifying thing to happen thus far in our lifetimes. Many of us may lose parents and grandparents to C0VlD-19. That loss pales in comparison to what we will experience going forward if We the People don’t speak up. Should we cower in fear and not think critically, the systemic horrors of the future will stretch beyond our generation and on to the generation of our great-grandchildren. Perhaps beyond.

Well said.

 

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[Matt Sun]

Very surprised that a number of folks here dislike / refuse vaccine. I've been praying everyday for one to come ASAP so we can all resume our lives.
Oh, and Gates is definitely involved in this whole thing.

Vaccines are the most mainstream product that nobody cares to look at what it's ingredients are.

These are common vaccine ingredients:
1)Wi - 38 Cells
2) Timerosal
3) Formalehyde

Are those safe?
Well.
Very rarely vaccine injurys are denouced, and even more rarely are they compensated. Yet, the vaccine injury compensation program has given 4 billion to people that got harm by vaccines.

https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccine-compensation/data/monthly-stats-december-2018.pdf

Like money could ever replace being able to walk.
Also, after great lobby, farmaceutical companies can't be sued for vaccine injurys. All the compensation is paid by tax money.

 

[ChickenHawk]

The problem with that chart is it sensationalizes the issue, creating fear and a situation far more dangerous than the virus itself. This brewing situation is making the virus look like a “nothingburger.”

A "nothingburger? Seriously? It's amazing to me to watch the ever-shifting goal posts of what constitutes a "nothingburger." In the beginning, if I had said, "I bet half a million Americans will get it before Easter," most of the people here would've said I was nuts for predicting a crazy "mega-somethingburger." If I had said, "I bet 20,000 Americans will die of this by Easter," I probably would've been laughed at, especially before a single American died of the sickness. And yet, as of today, both of these things are true. As of now, the USA has had 525,000 cases and over 20,000 deaths -- for a sickness that was unheard of just a few months ago.

Regardless of what goalpost-shifters want to think, this is not a nothingburger. Already today alone, nearly 2,000 people have died of it. And that is with quarantines, drastic social distancing measures, people running around in masks and gloves, slathered up with hand-sanitizer while restaurants/bars/shopping centers are closed in much of the country.

We’re not distinguishing dying from C0VlD-19 vs dying with C0VlD-19. Further considering that this year’s flu is practically at a pandemic level, how many of those C0VlD-19 deaths concurrently had influenza infections as well? It’s also fairly well documented at this point that C0VlD-19 death numbers are being fudged to be way higher than in actuality.

And how many people have died of "pneumonia" or "the flu" and were never tested? Number fudging works both ways. You say that the numbers are inflated. I could just as easily say that the numbers are underreported. In particular, China has probably reported only a fraction of their real numbers.

My concern is that this virus is being used to influence, control and subvert our nation. And that is the most terrifying thing to happen thus far in our lifetimes. Many of us may lose parents and grandparents to C0VlD-19. That loss pales in comparison to what we will experience going forward if We the People don’t speak up. Should we cower in fear and not think critically, the systemic horrors of the future will stretch beyond our generation and on to the generation of our great-grandchildren. Perhaps beyond.

Being informed and cowering in fear are not the same thing. I still maintain that the chart is relevant and think enough of the participants here that I don't see them cowering in terror at the sight of a chart that adds some interesting numerical context to what will probably be the biggest worldwide event we will see in our lifetimes .

 

[Vigilante]

A mask you make out of a napkin and a pair of plastic gloves are all you need to prevent transmission of the coronavirus.

Those will keep you safe at the grocery store.

That’s exactly why… Doctors in New York are wearing full blown hazmat suits.

.... question everything.

 

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[ChrisV]

A mask you make out of a napkin and a pair of plastic gloves are all you need to prevent transmission of the coronavirus.

se will keep you safe at the grocery store.

That’s exactly why… Doctors in New York are wearing full blown hazmat suits.

.... question everything.

Well to be fair the amount of coronavirus you'd be exposed to in a supermarket is far less than what'a in a COVID ward.

But yes, those handkerchiefs aren't very effective. They filter about 3% of particles.

 

[Vigilante]

Texas to ease Coronavirus lockdown under executive order to "restore livelihoods," governor says

Gov. Greg Abbott said he plans to issue an executive order to open up the state "strategically" to avoid "another potential closure."

www.newsweek.com

 

[Kak]

Texas to ease Coronavirus lockdown under executive order to "restore livelihoods," governor says

Gov. Greg Abbott said he plans to issue an executive order to open up the state "strategically" to avoid "another potential closure."

www.newsweek.com

One of the 4 best states in the country.

 

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[Vigilante]

One of the 4 best states in the country.

God bless Texas

 

[ChrisV]

Here folks:

Edward Snowden on C0VlD-19 and government.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5OAjnveyJo

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

Very surprised that a number of folks here dislike / refuse vaccine. I've been praying everyday for one to come ASAP so we can all resume our lives.

Vaccines are an interesting topic because the reputation of anti-vaxxers taints otherwise healthy skepticism. All medical products have side effects, with some being downright horrible.

If a vaccine comes out, I'll let other people get it first, to see if anyone grows wings.

 

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[farmer79]

Vaccines are an interesting topic because the reputation of anti-vaxxers taints otherwise healthy skepticism. All medical products have side effects, with some being downright horrible.

If a vaccine comes out, I'll let other people get it first, to see if anyone grows wings.

I was pro vaccine (and still am sort of) but when I saw friends went through when their child had a suspected reaction and it changed me a bit. No one and I mean no one would acknowledge it was even a possibility. My friends weren’t after a big payday they just wanted best advice for treatment and figure out what was wrong with their daughter. Their meetings would practically start with the doctor saying “well we know for sure that it wasn’t the vaccine that caused this.” It definitely makes me think that the vaccine side effects are under reported.

It’s difficult because when you question a vaccine you get lumped in with the crazy anti-vaccers. I just look at a two month old that can’t have honey or cows milk and I am not supposed to give Child Tylenol to, and I don’t think I am stretching to wonder if 6-8 vaccines are the best thing for them.

 

[Thoelt53]

A "nothingburger? Seriously? It's amazing to me to watch the ever-shifting goal posts of what constitutes a "nothingburger." In the beginning, if I had said, "I bet half a million Americans will get it before Easter," most of the people here would've said I was nuts for predicting a crazy "mega-somethingburger." If I had said, "I bet 20,000 Americans will die of this by Easter," I probably would've been laughed at, especially before a single American died of the sickness. And yet, as of today, both of these things are true. As of now, the USA has had 525,000 cases and over 20,000 deaths -- for a sickness that was unheard of just a few months ago.

You’re taking my use of “nothingburger” out of context. I said that the brewing situation created by fear is going to make C0VlD-19 look like a “nothingburger” [in comparison].

Regardless of what goalpost-shifters want to think, this is not a nothingburger. Already today alone, nearly 2,000 people have died of it. And that is with quarantines, drastic social distancing measures, people running around in masks and gloves, slathered up with hand-sanitizer while restaurants/bars/shopping centers are closed in much of the country.

Name-calling doesn’t invalidate my point. Again, my use of “nothingburger” was to draw contrast, not to describe C0VlD-19. Given how late the West was to respond to the virus, it’s possible that the virus went full swing and we are seeing the decline before mitigation efforts could have an impact.

U.S. spies had raw intel hinting at health crisis in China in November

Current and former officials say there was no formal assessment in November but that there was raw intelligence that fueled formal assessments written in December.

www.nbcnews.com

And how many people have died of "pneumonia" or "the flu" and were never tested? Number fudging works both ways. You say that the numbers are inflated. I could just as easily say that the numbers are underreported. In particular, China has probably reported only a fraction of their real numbers.

I didn’t think we were discussing China, however, here in the US the numbers are indeed being inflated. The article below also addresses your concern about flu death inflation (I.e. it doesn’t happen in the same way. Flu death inflation is a data interpretation and definition discrepancy of CDC vs American Lung Association, NOT deliberate fudging via presumption).

https://www.thecentersquare.com/min...cle_7eca1a42-7a94-11ea-97a6-fb0b397c746c.html

Being informed and cowering in fear are not the same thing. I still maintain that the chart is relevant and think enough of the participants here that I don't see them cowering in terror at the sight of a chart that adds some interesting numerical context to what will probably be the biggest worldwide event we will see in our lifetimes .

I agree that the members of the forum are critical thinkers, and most are not cowering in fear. However, the thoughts and views of those on this forum represent a very small portion of this country’s population. The vast majority of people, outside of this forum, are scared and easily influenced at this time. That’s the problem.

 

[GIlman]

This is my opinion piece:

I think covid is serious. I’ve seen the medical evidence and all the evidence shows it to be a highly contagious, and relatively lethal disease. Certainly there are some parameters to the model that change the absolute death rate, but it’s undeniable the overwhelming effect it has on the medical system and the surge of deaths it causes anywhere it takes hold.

I’ve commented a lot in the past what I expected governments to do, or what from a policy standpoint would be required to limit spread and deaths. Certainly some things are more on point than others.

But personally I believe in freedom and the autonomy of individuals to choose how to live their lives themselves.

If someone wants to isolate and quarantine, I support that. If someone wants to go golfing, fishing, or camping I support that. The people quarantining should not shame the people that are going out. Nor should the people going out shame the people quarantining.

Everyone should be responsible for both their actions and their consequences. Freedom is not free. It comes at a cost, and the nature of government is to exchange the illusion of safety for freedom. I reject all such premises. The government cannot protect me or anyone else. All they can do is oppress us to choosing for ourselves how we choose to live or lives. I would rather die free than die safe.

 

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[James Klymus]

Not at all when you supposedly live in a free country.

Our freedoms are self evident and given to us by God, not the government. The Constitution was written to explicitly state that the government has ZERO authority to deny people their basic rights.


The problem with that chart is it sensationalizes the issue, creating fear and a situation far more dangerous than the virus itself. This brewing situation is making the virus look like a “nothingburger.”

Of those 1,940 daily C0VlD-19 deaths how many were people with heart disease, cancer and chronic lung disease? Almost of all them!

We’re not distinguishing dying from C0VlD-19 vs dying with C0VlD-19. Further considering that this year’s flu is practically at a pandemic level, how many of those C0VlD-19 deaths concurrently had influenza infections as well?

It’s also fairly well documented at this point that C0VlD-19 death numbers are being fudged to be way higher than in actuality.

We’re being lied to across the board and it’s working. Most people are have bought the farce and will do whatever they’re told. Stand in the “breadline” at the supermarket, don’t leave your house, snitch on your neighbors, don’t wear a mask, do wear a mask, don’t take vitamin D or C because they don’t do anything.... the list goes on and on. These lockdowns are only exacerbating the disease by further weakening people’s immune systems.

I see people walking outdoors, alone, with no one around, wearing masks. Driving in their cars, alone, wearing masks. It’s insanity. They’ve been lied to and fooled. They’re scared.

Fear has been deliberately struck into people to make them malleable. This is the precipice of America and the West as we know it.

Before the morality parade comes through and chastises me for being apathetic, I am not saying that C0VlD-19 isn’t real, nor do I not have sympathy for those suffering from this illness. I have family members infected whom are high risk and I do worry I may lose them without being able to see them again.

My concern is that this virus is being used to influence, control and subvert our nation. And that is the most terrifying thing to happen thus far in our lifetimes. Many of us may lose parents and grandparents to C0VlD-19. That loss pales in comparison to what we will experience going forward if We the People don’t speak up. Should we cower in fear and not think critically, the systemic horrors of the future will stretch beyond our generation and on to the generation of our great-grandchildren. Perhaps beyond.

This is well said. And speaking on that chart: Maybe more people are dying of corona virus daily right NOW, But it's a virus, and we are building immunity to it. That number will likely not be up there with heart disease and cancer in a few more weeks let alone months or years.

And that's not even taking into consideration how many people died with corona virus AND another chronic illness on that list. There is a whole other controversy emerging that people are fudging the numbers on people that are dying of corona.

More propaganda to coax us into begging the government to continue to step on our freedoms.

God bless Texas

I am considering more and more moving from the Chicago suburbs to Houston or Dallas. Seems more like my kind of place.

Here folks:

Edward Snowden on C0VlD-19 and government.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5OAjnveyJo

Interesting that this is coming from vice. My observation has been that people who lean more to the left of the political spectrum tend to agree with what the government is doing to handle this situation, and people more so on the right side are suspicious of what the media and government are saying. And vice being a news outlet that leans left, it's interesting to see them putting this out.

A phlebotomist working at Roseland Community Hospital said Thursday that 30% to 50% of patients tested for the coronavirus have antibodies while only around 10% to 20% of those tested have the active virus,” Chicago City Wire reported Thursday.

I'm under the impression at this point, that this virus has been in America since the late fall/early winter. And if that's true, and the country was functioning just fine, and didn't even notice anything for months while this ran loose.. Well what was the point in this lockdown experiment?

I personally fear that we just showed the government how quickly we're willing to give up our freedom, when they tell us there's a monster out there that we need to be scared of.

This is eerily similar to how other totalitarian regimes have been implemented through out history.

One thing that makes me feel slightly better: I was talking to one of the associates at my local gun store, and he said that around 80% of people who bought firearms in their store in the month of March were brand new gun buyers.

The big thing we have going for us in America is the second amendment. We as a whole are a heavily armed society, and the government knows that. Why do you think they want to ban firearms?

Alright, I'm taking off my tinfoil hat for the evening.

 

[James Klymus]

This is my opinion piece:

I think covid is serious. I’ve seen the medical evidence and all the evidence shows it to be a highly contagious, and relatively lethal disease. Certainly there are some parameters to the model that change the absolute death rate, but it’s undeniable the overwhelming effect it has on the medical system and the surge of deaths it causes anywhere it takes hold.

I’ve commented a lot in the past what I expected governments to do, or what from a policy standpoint would be required to limit spread and deaths. Certainly some things are more on point than others.

But personally I believe in freedom and the autonomy of individuals to choose how to live their lives themselves.

If someone wants to isolate and quarantine, I support that. If someone wants to go golfing, fishing, or camping I support that. The people quarantining should not shame the people that are going out. Nor should the people going out shame the people quarantining.

Everyone should be responsible for both their actions and their consequences. Freedom is not free. It comes at a cost, and the nature of government is to exchange the illusion of safety for freedom. I reject all such premises. The government cannot protect me or anyone else. All they can do is oppress us to choosing for ourselves how we choose to live or lives. I would rather die free than die safe.

I'm glad to see all of the people who AREN'T blindly listening to orders, and who ARE questioning the decisions of our leaders. More and more I see the tone changing from "pro stay at home" to "wait a minute, isn't this kinda a violation of our rights?"

 

[Andreas Thiel]

Feel like a bum asking this ... but I will do my own research as well and read back into this thread further.
I have only read the latest page so far and am mostly wondering what smart people say about the statistics.

I understand that there are many unknowns and not everybody gets tested etc., but one thing that I can't wrap my head around is how - after that many weeks - we are at more than 20% deaths when we look at the outcomes. There are more than 500,000 closed cases, so that should be a resprectable sample size.
How is that possible (and why is it supposedly obvious) that this number will eventually go to 4% (worst case) or 0,5% (probably)? Okay, there is a lag before an active case joins the "recovered" camp and some people are not known active cases until they are dead (meaning there are people who have recovered and are never counted). That factors in ... but that strongly? I think we went from 24% to 21% in more than one week ... should that decline not happen faster?

Does anybody know interesting articles by people who look at the implications of the statistics?
Anything else that stands out?

 

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[ChrisV]

I have only read the latest page so far and am mostly wondering what smart people say about the statistics.

I understand that there are many unknowns and not everybody gets tested etc., but one thing that I can't wrap my head around is how - after that many weeks - we are at more than 20% deaths when we look at the outcomes. There are more than 500,000 closed cases, so that should be a resprectable sample size.

The original numbers were based on how the virus typically spreads. When people do things like social distancing it changes the curve of the disease, therefore the projected death toll changes.

That's if I'm understanding the question correctly.

Also who are "we." Germans? Humans?

 

[Andreas Thiel]

The original numbers were based on how the virus typically spreads. When people do things like social distancing it changes the curve of the disease, therefore the projected death toll changes.

That's if I'm understanding the question correctly.

Also who are "we." Germans? Humans?

Humans. I am looking at the closed cases there:

Coronavirus Update (Live): 134,528,282 Cases and 2,915,012 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the C0VlD-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

I understand that actions change the outcome to some degree and the rate is affected negatively when the medical system is stressed ... but those projections are only possible if there is a trajectory that we are on.

Just wondering how - given a mortality rate between 0.5 and 4 percent - we can see the numbers we are currently seeing.
Thought about it some more and maybe the facts I listed are sufficient. The lag combined with the exponential nature could mean that the improvements in the deaths to recoveries ratio will speed up soon.