The Entrepreneur Forum | Financial Freedom | Starting a Business | Motivation | Money | Success

Welcome to the only entrepreneur forum dedicated to building life-changing wealth.

Build a Fastlane business. Earn real financial freedom. Join free.

Join over 80,000 entrepreneurs who have rejected the paradigm of mediocrity and said "NO!" to underpaid jobs, ascetic frugality, and suffocating savings rituals— learn how to build a Fastlane business that pays both freedom and lifestyle affluence.

Free registration at the forum removes this block.

The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

Kak

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
492%
Jan 23, 2011
9,678
47,664
34
Texas
I think his argument was that anyone currently out in public today is aware of the risk of getting it from everyone else who is in public. If you do not want to catch it, then you practice social distance and keep yourself quarantined. Your argument of drunk driving doesn't compare at all. You are able to drink in public, you are able to freely go from state to state per federal law as long as you have passed a driver's education. However, when you drink and drive you put others UNKNOWINGLY at risk of harm. That is the difference. If I am driving I cannot know the risk of you being drunk on the same road. If I go out to hang with a group of friends this afternoon I am fully aware of the risk and so does everyone else.

@GIlman I consider this to be a very good job of explaining, but, at this point, I think it would be easier to to talk through and not be taken out of context with heavy straw if we have a phone discussion.

As you know and have probably observed, the more pro government side of the argument seems to have the monopoly on straw.

If you really want to have a discussion, let’s chat on the phone.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Xeon

All Cars Kneel Before Pagani.
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
191%
Sep 3, 2017
2,427
4,628
Singapore
Some Good news !! may be we are near to finding a vaccine . Finger crossed !!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTCCqWzkr48

Tbh, I treat all these as rubbish until I personally and physically see the vaccine being used.

Since early Feb, almost every 1 - 2 days, I see all these "news" about some "promising" vaccines, or cure, or how some "vaccines" are already undergoing human trials....it's Apr, and where are the F*cking vaccines?! I realize the word "vaccine" could actually be used as a marketing tool. Maybe just spam that word in ad titles or sales copy letters.

WHO says the vaccines will take at least 18 months, and I think that's excluding the logistical / distribution / additional red tape time, so it may be 24 months before the first person actually gets one.....
 

Kak

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
492%
Jan 23, 2011
9,678
47,664
34
Texas
@GIlman I consider this to be a very good job of explaining, but, at this point, I think it would be easier to to talk through and not be taken out of context with heavy straw if we have a phone discussion.

As you know and have probably observed, the more pro government side of the argument seems to have the monopoly on straw.

If you really want to have a discussion, let’s chat on the phone.
@GIlman and I are going to be on his podcast together on Monday. We plan to have an open dialogue about the policy response to coronavirus.

I look forward to it...

Sometimes actual words are just so much better.
 
Last edited:

Trevor Kuntz

Professional Dog Owner
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
274%
Feb 5, 2012
655
1,794
Arizona
THEY DO GET PROSECUTED.


Criminalisation of HIV Non-Disclosure

I'm sorry... i have to back out of this thread for a while. I literally have friends who have family members in the ICU due to this and we're talking about this all this dumb shit like guys right to knowingly spread a deadly disease (criminal negligence.)

View attachment 31863
View attachment 31859
View attachment 31860
View attachment 31861
View attachment 31862

If you're not in NY, you'll fully understand all this in a few weeks; because you're next.

Sorry to hear about your friends and hope they are doing better.

I was listening to this podcast today talking about C0VlD-19 and distance bias.

Synopsis:
Husband and wife in Connecticut, both work in finance and have 2 kids.
Wife is from Wuhan, so she was panicking in mid-January, staying up until 3am trying to organize aid shipments to her family. Husband wasn’t affected, so didn’t understand the wife’s obsessive behavior. However, the husband’s family lives in (shit you not) Lombardy, Italy. So not much later, he realizes why his wife was freaking out so much and begins to follow the outbreak very closely.

The rest of the podcast discusses distance bias, a bias our brains can have that minimizes the effects of something we perceive to be far away. In fact, in virtual meetings with people on conference calls, our brains frequently perceive people who we think are “farther away” to be dumber and less valuable than people in the room with us, even if that is not at all the reality.

In the end, the conclusion was that in a world where a virus can travel thousands of miles in a few hours, we have to actively counteract our innate biases in order to be better prepared.

 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Bearcorp

Gold Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
237%
Jul 2, 2012
711
1,684
39
Australia
I looks like @GIlman and I are going to be on his podcast together on Monday. We plan to have an open dialogue about the policy response to coronavirus.

I look forward to it...

Sometimes actual words are just so much better.
Looking forward to this! Nice one @GIlman @Kak
 

MTF

Never give up
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
455%
May 1, 2011
7,560
34,430

Key points:
  • The city-state has announced it is closing all schools and non-essential workplaces to curb the rise of a second wave of the pandemic.
  • Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong announced on Friday: “We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections.” The restrictions are from April 7 to May 4.
  • The “circuit breaker” measures are not as strict as lockdowns activated in Italy, Spain, the U.K. and China. While schools, gyms, museums, casinos and workplaces are closed, grocery stores and clinics will stay open, as well as transport and banking services.
  • The measures are the strictest yet to be imposed in the financial hub, which has until now managed to avoid activating sweeping lockdowns. But it comes as new confirmed infections jumped to 1,114.
  • Singapore’s government will hand out facemasks to all households this weekend, in a turnaround on its previous stance that only ill people needed to wear protective equipment.
That sucks so badly...

If Singapore couldn't manage the situation with their swift (and allowing people to live normal lives) response that was applauded and set as an example in countless articles (just one example here) then how are other countries whose initial response sucked (and sucks to this day) supposed to deal with it?
 

Mattie

Platinum Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
129%
May 28, 2014
3,485
4,490
53
U.S.
Why aren't you saying the Influenza falls under the same problem? Not everyone gets a vaccine. There's still 3-5 million cases worldwide per year. To me, it looks like the same problem, no?

Not as aggressive as COVID? Doesn't matter. There's still deaths.

And I don't see how its economy vs death. No economy = no food = death. We're taking a lot of stuff for granted. How about we cut government programs and then shutdown the economy? You're still up for it? It's easy to say "they're choosing economy over people's lives" when you're getting ANY amount of FREE money from the government.

And by the way, I don't believe it is an economy vs people situation. That's exaggerating it quite a bit.
While Sweden seems to agree with you, I don't think it's stopping the death ranks. While everyone may be working and going on as usual, it's just a matter of time. I think in Europe it's more of reality since you have Italy, Spain, France with high numbers. In U.S. you're detached from what's happening in other areas of the world other then the internet and what people report. New York is one example of the outbreak.

If you have people moving around in groups working on trams, buses, car pools, flights, etc. You're spreading it fast. Which obviously, if you're an Entrepreneur moving around in transportation "Money" or "Health". Really, I can see the point "Money" is the objective, but fortunately, the "Money" doesn't come without your "Health". So you can have a big fat bank account, but if your dead, you're not going to spend it, enjoy it, or even be able to count it.

Economy is already screwed everywhere. May is probably where things will chill out because of warmer weather, but really can come back just as fast in October. I'm sure you will have a lot of people work through the Virus, but people walk off the job as well because you don't have all the robes, masks, gloves, and protecting your employees like a Hospital. That's what they have in their mind. Their personal safety.

Nurses are walking off because they can't protect themselves and their children and families.

While you have lots of Entrepreneurs who might say get to work, convince your employees why they should work for you and get the job done. Do you have 100% guarantee your employees won't die. They want to know. It's common sense. You can't force people to risk their lives and families lives for the sake of making someone wealthy.
While you might have the warrior mentality with police, military, firefighters, doctors, nurses, not everyone has that mentality to risk their lives to save others. So even in those ranks you have those warriors falling because they are risking their lives.

This too shall pass. Of course, the rules will change because you have people like the person in New York who just got busted by the F.B.I. for hoarding masks and trying to price gouge. Fortunately, I think it's weeding out the entrepreneurs who have what it takes to be a real entrepreneur and build real wealth and those who take advantage of people in all the wrong ways.

I'm not sure there's a perfect solution for a few months until this Virus gets through the population and people get immune or a vaccine is in action.

It's sad, but really the damage is already done. It's just cleaning up the mess in the aftermath hopefully in a few months to a year. It's not forever.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Mattie

Platinum Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
129%
May 28, 2014
3,485
4,490
53
U.S.
It’s egregious because these people haven’t been convicted of a crime, yet the state has given itself the power to lock a tracking device to their ankle.

You want to arrest these repeat offenders and give them a fair trial? By all means, the judge could even hold them without bail.

The bottom line is there needs to be due process. A crisis cannot be allowed to dissolve the fabric of our legal system.

Historically, in times of crisis, people BEG the government to expand its power to come and “save” them. The problem is that the government can’t save you, or me, and will only abuse that power in the future. There are thousands of years of precedent here, and the modern world/USA are not immune.

The US was ranked as being the most apt nation to handle a pandemic. There are areas that we now know can be improved on for the next one. Forfeiting liberties and expanding government powers WILL NOT solve this pandemic or any future pandemics.
Ah...ankle bracelet or $1,000 dollar fine. I guess we can give options and let people choose the consequences. Michigan health department sets fines at $1,000 for not complying with executive orders
 

WillHurtDontCare

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
305%
May 28, 2017
1,986
6,051
32
USA

WillHurtDontCare

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
305%
May 28, 2017
1,986
6,051
32
USA
Regardless of what you think the future holds, here's a worthwhile thought from Seneca:

"Remember that all we have is 'on loan' from Fortune, which can reclaim it without our permission—indeed, without even advance notice. Thus, we should love all our dear ones, but always with the thought that we have no promise that we may keep them forever—nay, no promise even that we may keep them for long."
 

MTF

Never give up
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
455%
May 1, 2011
7,560
34,430
Some good news from Italy:
  • 4805 new cases and 681 new deaths in Italy. The number of patients hospitalized in intensive care has declined for the first time since the beginning of the epidemic in Italy

    The target of bringing down the reproductive number (R0) to 1 has been reached. Now the goal is to bring it below 1. Earlier in the epidemic, it was as high as 3. This value represents the average number of people to which a single infected person will transmit the virus. An epidemic with a reproductive number below 1 will gradually disappear

    An estimated 30,000 lives have been saved as an effect of the lockdown measures, according to Istituto Superiore di Sanità (ISS) [source] [source]
 

Mckenzie

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
151%
Aug 25, 2013
139
210
Here we go, finally.......:
"....China should be sued under international law for trillions of dollars for its initial cover-up of the coronavirus pandemic which has caused more than 60,000 deaths and trillions of dollars in economic damage, a new report says....The Henry Jackson Society said China had done the opposite, by covering up data and punishing doctors who sought to tell the truth....":
https://www.theage.com.au/world/eur...s-says-top-uk-think-tank-20200405-p54h5b.html
 

James Klymus

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
353%
Dec 28, 2018
474
1,672
28
Chicago, Illinois
Ill add yet another video for anyone who's interested. It questions the "conventional wisdom" that everyone is hearing from officials and news outlets.

https://www.hoover.org/research/questioning-conventional-wisdom-C0VlD-19-crisis-dr-jay-bhattacharya

Never take things at face value, even if they are from an authority. Think for your self, and do your own research.
 

GIlman

Still Gilman
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
604%
Oct 16, 2014
801
4,842
Something I ran across, and will help greatly in battling this disease. We all know of the rapid CV test by abbot, this is the one the president was showing off the machine for. This test looks for actual material of the virus.

But...there is another test that is extremely useful. It can test to see if you have been previously exposed. It looks for two types of molecules (immunoglobulins) produces by your immune system. Note that this does not tell you if you have an active infection per se. It tells you if you have developed an immune response.

Using the two tests together you can find asymptomatic people that recovered, or identify people that got sick and recovered but didn’t know they had covid.

This is important on a couple different fronts.

1) knowing you previously had the infection and have immune molecules, you should have immunity to future infection. This is useful in getting the country back to work.
2) convalescent plasma therapy for the sick. Basically, if you have these immune molecules in your blood, you can do a plasma donation which is very similar to a blood donation. The doctors can then inject your plasma into an infected patient. Basically this is the equivalent of someone who has recovered sharing their immunity with another person by sharing a component of their blood.

this new test is very simple too. Basically a finger prick of blood, like diabetics do. Then you put the drop on a test strip that looks like a pregnancy test. The results come up just like a basic pregnancy test with 15 min. There is no fancy equipment to process or read the test.

I know a lot of people are speculating that they have had covid already, this will tell you if you have or have not.

https://www.biomedomics.com/products/infectious-disease/C0VlD-19-rt/
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

MTF

Never give up
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
455%
May 1, 2011
7,560
34,430


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPRkZbGvRsg



What can go wrong, right?
 

QDF

Gold Contributor
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
401%
Jan 1, 2014
363
1,454
Something I ran across, and will help greatly in battling this disease. We all know of the rapid CV test by abbot, this is the one the president was showing off the machine for. This test looks for actual material of the virus.

But...there is another test that is extremely useful. It can test to see if you have been previously exposed. It looks for two types of molecules (immunoglobulins) produces by your immune system. Note that this does not tell you if you have an active infection per se. It tells you if you have developed an immune response.

Using the two tests together you can find asymptomatic people that recovered, or identify people that got sick and recovered but didn’t know they had covid.

This is important on a couple different fronts.

1) knowing you previously had the infection and have immune molecules, you should have immunity to future infection. This is useful in getting the country back to work.
2) convalescent plasma therapy for the sick. Basically, if you have these immune molecules in your blood, you can do a plasma donation which is very similar to a blood donation. The doctors can then inject your plasma into an infected patient. Basically this is the equivalent of someone who has recovered sharing their immunity with another person by sharing a component of their blood.

this new test is very simple too. Basically a finger prick of blood, like diabetics do. Then you put the drop on a test strip that looks like a pregnancy test. The results come up just like a basic pregnancy test with 15 min. There is no fancy equipment to process or read the test.

I know a lot of people are speculating that they have had covid already, this will tell you if you have or have not.

https://www.biomedomics.com/products/infectious-disease/C0VlD-19-rt/

A bit of a deep dive into the convalescent plasma therapy here....

The people that receive the plasma donation can then also donate their own plasma as well if/when they recover, correct?

Would a recovered patient be able to donate plasma multiple times? Or does the effect become diluted at some point?

Also, if you have not had the disease yet, can you still receive plasma and then be immune? And if so, can you then donate your own plasma to help spread immunity even though you've never had the disease?

If this is possible, I'd imagine this could lead to exponential growth of immunity -- basically herd immunity without everyone getting sick.

For example, 1 recovered patient donates plasma multiple times --> only people who are capable of donating plasma frequently (ideally 2 times per week) and agree to do so receive the donation to keep the chain going (at least to start).

Of course, before allowing plasma donations to those who aren't actually sick, we would likely need to first reach a point where we have enough people who have recovered to provide plasma for those are are currently sick, which may not be anytime soon.

If this route is even possible, some quick back-of-the-envelope math shows that we could likely reach herd immunity this way much faster than a vaccine can be rolled out.
 

Rivoli

Silver Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
185%
Jun 4, 2018
427
790
Orange County, California
***BREAKING***

REAL REASON FOR HIGH DEATHS IN ITALY: Lombardy gov. Early in outbreak decided to send mild symptom C0VlD-19 patients to nursing homes which spread the disease to the weakest population similar to what happened in WA.

SOURCE:

 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Rivoli

Silver Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
185%
Jun 4, 2018
427
790
Orange County, California


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPRkZbGvRsg



What can go wrong, right?
The best thing about this virus is it’s red pilled the world on the CCP. These guys are NAZI’s. If you figure that North Korea is its vassal state, and all those prison torture camps are on the hands of the Chinese, China is worse than NAZI Germany.

The war to come with China is going to end their evil regime for good.
 

GIlman

Still Gilman
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
604%
Oct 16, 2014
801
4,842
A bit of a deep dive into the convalescent plasma therapy here....

The people that receive the plasma donation can then also donate their own plasma as well if/when they recover, correct?

Yes, they have to test negative for the virus itself and be symptom free 14 days before they can donate. Also in the past we also had body weight restrictions, I don’t remember what it is, but in the USA few people’s body weight is low enough for this to be an issue

Would a recovered patient be able to donate plasma multiple times? Or does the effect become diluted at some point?

Yes, your body is constantly cranking out antibodies and other elements of plasma. I do not know the frequency that you could harvest plasma and still maintain effective antibody levels and also not take too much other blood elements from the person. They need these things too, and just like a blood donation need time to regenerate.

Also, if you have not had the disease yet, can you still receive plasma and then be immune? And if so, can you then donate your own plasma to help spread immunity even though you've never had the disease?

Yes and no. If you had not been infected you would receive some immune effect, but it is temporary and limited in supply as it where. Antibodies break down and are lost from your body in other ways over time.

Since you are borrowing these antibody molecules from a donor, your body has no knowledge how to make new ones. Kinda like your neighbor who is a baker giving you a loaf of bread because you don’t know how to bake, it will feed you and be gone, but just having been given that loaf of bread doesn’t give you any new ability to make your own loaf of bread. You have to get educated to make bread or antibodies.

The way your immune system gets that education is being exposed to the virus itself through random exposure infection, intentional low dose infection through variolation (not really done at this time), or exposure to a very weakened version of the virus (live attenuated vaccine), dead virus (deactivated vaccine), or small chunks of the virus (recombinant vaccine).

If this is possible, I'd imagine this could lead to exponential growth of immunity -- basically herd immunity without everyone getting sick.

For example, 1 recovered patient donates plasma multiple times --> only people who are capable of donating plasma frequently (ideally 2 times per week) and agree to do so receive the donation to keep the chain going (at least to start).

Of course, before allowing plasma donations to those who aren't actually sick, we would likely need to first reach a point where we have enough people who have recovered to provide plasma for those are are currently sick, which may not be anytime soon.

If this route is even possible, some quick back-of-the-envelope math shows that we could likely reach herd immunity this way much faster than a vaccine can be rolled out.

I think I addressed these all in responses above. Certainly the bigger the pool of donors, the more plasma we can harvest. As stated above you have to have had the infection or vaccine to donate plasma.

There is another therapy that does much of the same thing, but skips the plasma collection thing. They are called monoclonal antibody therapy. These are basically lab grown antibodies. Historically these have been extremely expensive though. So some sort of innovation for mass production to bring price down would be required.

At the end of the day, everyone needs to be infected or receive vaccine themselves. There is no shortcut. The plasma or monoclonal antibody therapy is useful to all people that get sick to not get as sick and survive the illness.
 

GIlman

Still Gilman
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
604%
Oct 16, 2014
801
4,842
***BREAKING***

REAL REASON FOR HIGH DEATHS IN ITALY: Lombardy gov. Early in outbreak decided to send mild symptom C0VlD-19 patients to nursing homes which spread the disease to the weakest population similar to what happened in WA.

SOURCE:


It’s in Italian so I can’t read it, but the claim itself that the high death rate is because of that is nonsense.

Being exposed intentionally or unintentionally does not specifically increase your risk of death, it increases the risk of contracting the infection to begin with. Risk of death is the same regardless of how you acquired it more or less. I say more or less because there is some evidence that the “dose” of exposure is related to death rate, so in theory the risk of death is greater for people with someone sick in their home and health care workers, both because of high dose and constant exposure. If you acquire the infection randomly in the community, it’s almost always a small dose infection.

If they did intentionally infect nursing homes, they it would have accelerated the rate of spread only. Now I can see someone making the argument that this overwhelmed the hospitals, and that lead to increased death. This could be true but not accurate. The high number of aged get sicker and overwhelmed the hospitals earlier, but they would have gotten overwhelmed anyway. We know this because these hospitals have not been accepting people over 65. So they have plenty of people to fill them without the nursing home population. They in fact are turning that population away.

If intentional infection of nursing homes occurred, it just accelerated the inevitable over run at the hospitals. The amount and rate of people who died then becomes a function of when the quarantine was put in place and how well it was adhered to.
 

MJ DeMarco

I followed the science; all I found was money.
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
445%
Jul 23, 2007
38,076
169,488
Utah
31922
31923

The plastic water jug looks funny but I'm thinking it's the most effective defense against the virus and touching your face.
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

tpf

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
222%
Apr 8, 2016
46
102
43
UK (Lesta) & 日本
G

GuestUser4aMPs1

Guest

Interesting article about states w/o shelter-in-place orders yet. @Kak

"The reality is a complicated and even conflicted mix of respect for a deadly pathogen, concern over its economic implications, and a desire to maintain a sense of American independence in the face of a collective tragedy."

Many people are no longer shaking hands or crowding into stores, but they are still going shopping, buying cars and some are even heading out to work each day.

“We’re doing what we would do for the flu, with older people sheltering in place and the rest of us taking the best care we can,” says Brian Joens, whose Iowa City eatery, Joensy’s, is doing a brisk take-out business of its fabled pork tenderloin.

“But let’s be honest, what country do we live in?” says Joens. “It’s the USA, which is freedom, freedom to choose. When we get notes from the government saying do this or do that, it feels like that’s not what this country is built on. People should be smart, and you live with your choices.”
 

Rivoli

Silver Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
185%
Jun 4, 2018
427
790
Orange County, California
It’s in Italian so I can’t read it, but the claim itself that the high death rate is because of that is nonsense.

Being exposed intentionally or unintentionally does not specifically increase your risk of death, it increases the risk of contracting the infection to begin with. Risk of death is the same regardless of how you acquired it more or less. I say more or less because there is some evidence that the “dose” of exposure is related to death rate, so in theory the risk of death is greater for people with someone sick in their home and health care workers, both because of high dose and constant exposure. If you acquire the infection randomly in the community, it’s almost always a small dose infection.

If they did intentionally infect nursing homes, they it would have accelerated the rate of spread only. Now I can see someone making the argument that this overwhelmed the hospitals, and that lead to increased death. This could be true but not accurate. The high number of aged get sicker and overwhelmed the hospitals earlier, but they would have gotten overwhelmed anyway. We know this because these hospitals have not been accepting people over 65. So they have plenty of people to fill them without the nursing home population. They in fact are turning that population away.

If intentional infection of nursing homes occurred, it just accelerated the inevitable over run at the hospitals. The amount and rate of people who died then becomes a function of when the quarantine was put in place and how well it was adhered to.

It was more likely incompetence. And if you don’t think seeding vulnerable sick communities with a extremely high CFR with this virus doesn’t increase the death rate....
 
Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

Rivoli

Silver Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
185%
Jun 4, 2018
427
790
Orange County, California

Interesting article about states w/o shelter-in-place orders yet. @Kak

"The reality is a complicated and even conflicted mix of respect for a deadly pathogen, concern over its economic implications, and a desire to maintain a sense of American independence in the face of a collective tragedy."

Many people are no longer shaking hands or crowding into stores, but they are still going shopping, buying cars and some are even heading out to work each day.

“We’re doing what we would do for the flu, with older people sheltering in place and the rest of us taking the best care we can,” says Brian Joens, whose Iowa City eatery, Joensy’s, is doing a brisk take-out business of its fabled pork tenderloin.

“But let’s be honest, what country do we live in?” says Joens. “It’s the USA, which is freedom, freedom to choose. When we get notes from the government saying do this or do that, it feels like that’s not what this country is built on. People should be smart, and you live with your choices.”

I really agree with this.

I don’t understand why people want states like Wyoming or Montana to lock down. People already live isolated there it’s like the least population density in the country.
 

Timmy C

I Will Not Stop!
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
User Power
Value/Post Ratio
230%
Jun 12, 2018
2,921
6,727
Melbourne, Australia
Here is another perspective that my good friend explained to me.

The perspective of his grandfather who is 80 years old.

He said

''look i haven't got long left at all, i would much prefer still seeing you all and enjoying my life with the family while i can. Having dinner with everyone, going fishing etc.

I would rather take the risk of dying than being locked up in my house for god knows how long.''
 

Post New Topic

Please SEARCH before posting.
Please select the BEST category.

Post new topic

Guest post submissions offered HERE.

Latest Posts

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top