The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[ChrisV]

Bill Gates is one of my heroes. He spent so much time trying to eradicate and educate people about the consequences of infectious disease.

View: https://youtu.be/A71lfXrQlxU

 

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[Kak]

Opinion | The Real Cure for Coronavirus

Private research and innovation offer promising new leads.

www.wsj.com

Another GOLD article. Private industry, with a profit motive, is working very quickly to solve this problem.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

Another GOLD article. Private industry, with a profit motive, is working very quickly to solve this problem.

I haven't read the article (I don't have a WSJ subscription) so perhaps it already addressed my questions, but I have to ask:

1) What will this cost?
2) Who pays for it?

Healthcare, particularly pharmaceuticals, has been a massive source of contention for years in the US, where treatments are outrageously expensive and tens of millions are uninsured.

While some miracle cures pop up (Hep C drugs), I'm curious what the price tag would be for a coronavirus solution, especially considering that a virus this contagious will hit a lot uninsured people.

They might expect a big lump sum payment from the government if everyone needs it.

And we can ignore the logistical issues and the likelihood of unintended side effects of releasing a drug quickly (which I don't fault them for, these are desperate circumstances).

 

[Bigguns50]

Maybe a little too rosy? I am worried that Ducey is being too reactive in this and given our older population we are in for a disastrous April and May.

Edit: maybe I spoke too soon. Just announced minutes ago: Gov. Ducey ends school year for Arizona students

Ducey is taking a lot of heat for not mandating a stay at home order. (The Mayors can't give the order. ) Here in Sedona, it's Q U I E T. Most businesses are closed by order or voluntarily because there isn't enough traffic to stay open. Something many people are voicing concern (bitching loudly really, and emailing Ducey) about is the amount of weekend traffic from the Phoenix area crowding the popular hiking trails. It's kind of crazy....we tried a couple trails and there were hundreds of people. Many groups of more than 5. Since we know the area, we simply hike where the tourists don't hike.

We went to Prescott and it was like business as usual.

 

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[Rabby]

Pressure Mounts on Insurance Companies to Pay Out for Coronavirus

Lawmakers and regulators are pressuring insurers to go beyond the legal language of policies to get cash to Americans amid the mounting cost of shutdowns from the coronavirus pandemic.

www.wsj.com

View attachment 31685

Pretty ugly policy there. While I agree it sucks for all of these companies to be shut down like this... Insurance companies aren’t some unlimited money factory only there like a piggy bank to smash. They are employers just like the companies the government is trying to force them to pay.

Retroactively forcing insurers to pay claims on something that they never covered is pretty commie.

Well I hope we have not gone full commie to the point where this BS flies. Let's rewrite every contract in the country while were at it. My pet insurance can pay for your unemployment. Your jewelry policy can pay for my business interruption. The warranty on my TV set can pay all the salaries for the idiots in government who are proposing things like this.

This is another example of taking advantage of a disaster to just do whatever the hell you want with other people's money, rights, business, etc., if you're in government. If they get away with something like this, they can take anything they want from the rest of us too.

I will go find the names of the people in that article and see if any of them are in my district. If they are I will be sure to contact them. I'll very likely contact the other ones too. They should know that we know they are being idiots.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

Pressure Mounts on Insurance Companies to Pay Out for Coronavirus

Lawmakers and regulators are pressuring insurers to go beyond the legal language of policies to get cash to Americans amid the mounting cost of shutdowns from the coronavirus pandemic.

www.wsj.com

View attachment 31685

Pretty ugly policy there. While I agree it sucks for all of these companies to be shut down like this... Insurance companies aren’t some unlimited money factory only there like a piggy bank to smash. They are employers just like the companies the government is trying to force them to pay.

Retroactively forcing insurers to pay claims on something that they never covered is pretty commie.

While this particular situation is worrying for the reasons that you outlined, the fact that US politicians are willing to pick fights with insurance companies should scream one thing to entrepreneurs:

They are desperate for solutions. Be bold - things that wouldn't fly in the past are fair game today.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

uhhhhhhh

REPORT: Man Who Licked Toilet For 'Coronavirus Challenge' Has Coronavirus

Social media stuntman was also suspended from Twitter following stomach-churning video

nationalfile.com

 

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[Rabby]

Well I hope we have not gone full commie to the point where this BS flies. Let's rewrite every contract in the country while were at it. My pet insurance can pay for your unemployment. Your jewelry policy can pay for my business interruption. The warranty on my TV set can pay all the salaries for the idiots in government who are proposing things like this.

This is another example of taking advantage of a disaster to just do whatever the hell you want with other people's money, rights, business, etc., if you're in government. If they get away with something like this, they can take anything they want from the rest of us too.

I will go find the names of the people in that article and see if any of them are in my district. If they are I will be sure to contact them. I'll very likely contact the other ones too. They should know that we know they are being idiots.

Well, I sent messages to 22 senators and representatives in OH and MA who are involved in these bills to re-write insurance policies. Also to two local policy think tanks in OH and MA, and one national one. And to a friend who owns a real estate empire in OH and is very libertarian. Maybe someone will notice? I hope this isn't a political statement I'm making, but I can't watch someone burn rule of law right in front of my eyes. We need to keep these people accountable for what they do.

 

[Kak]

Well, I sent messages to 22 senators and representatives in OH and MA who are involved in these bills to re-write insurance policies. Also to two local policy think tanks in OH and MA, and one national one. And to a friend who owns a real estate empire in OH and is very libertarian. Maybe someone will notice? I hope this isn't a political statement I'm making, but I can't watch someone burn rule of law right in front of my eyes. We need to keep these people accountable for what they do.

Well done Rabby!

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
-Thought to be Thomas Jefferson sometimes, but definitely someone cool.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

I hope this isn't a political statement

This seems less like politics in the usual sense, which are heated topics that cause people to fight, and more the cold reality of how the government might try to grab some of your business's funds.

 

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[LightningHelix]

Well I hope we have not gone full commie to the point where this BS flies. Let's rewrite every contract in the country while were at it. My pet insurance can pay for your unemployment. Your jewelry policy can pay for my business interruption. The warranty on my TV set can pay all the salaries for the idiots in government who are proposing things like this.

This is another example of taking advantage of a disaster to just do whatever the hell you want with other people's money, rights, business, etc., if you're in government. If they get away with something like this, they can take anything they want from the rest of us too.

I will go find the names of the people in that article and see if any of them are in my district. If they are I will be sure to contact them. I'll very likely contact the other ones too. They should know that we know they are being idiots.

This combined with what @JScott was talking about in another thread. That the government retains the option to buy out stock terrifies the fricken hell out of me. Like we are at the first step of the end of american capitalism.

 

[Rabby]

Well, if anyone wants an email list, and copies of the legislation, and all the other footwork to write your own campaign, just sent me a message.

If 100s of people criticize them for deleting liberty, they'll probably have to listen.

Just like in business, we choose the world we live in.

Our actions change our circumstances.

 

[LuckyPup]

Anyone else noticing a reset in dopamine levels/feeling way more gratitude?

Not to sound cheesy but I catch myself really enjoying simple things and just feeling really good. Last night I was thinking how comfy my couch was for like 5 minutes haha.

I know there is a lot wrong right now but there is so much to be happy and grateful about also - we might be all stuck inside but we still live better than 99.99% of people who ever lived.

I think the last year before this I had been kinda rushing around and not really taking in a lot of stuff. Slowing down and having to focus on the day to day has been really helpful and enjoyable. I have been sleeping some of my best sleeps ever also.

I'd be interested to see if anyone else is feeling similar.

I've noticed this, too. It's interesting to see that social distancing has actually brought us closer together in important ways. I think we've also had a chance to slow down a bit; to step off the hamster wheel and contemplate what's truly important. Times like this galvanize us and make us strip away much of the debris that clutters our lives. At least that's been my and my family's experience.

 

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[Rivoli]

I have some inside sources in NYC - hydroxychloroquine is working amazing.

This is going to be the biggest nothing burger in the history of the world, death rate with meds will drop to 0.1% screenshot this and by Mylan shares while they’re still under $150

 

[Ernman]

Retroactively forcing insurers to pay claims on something that they never covered is pretty commie.

Not to mention short sighted and stupid. The insurance companies will simply turn around and raise premiums/rates and likely spread the pain across all types of policies moving forward. If the government regulators try to push back, the insurance lobby kings will swoop in and say - hey we did our part, now you do yours.

It also hurts those who did their due diligence and followed the rules on getting proper insurance up front. I know some will call those folks fools for following "the rules." But they aren't the ones crying to their politicians to bail them out and come to their rescue.

I hate when people take short cuts, try to get away with crap and then complain, whine and cry, "oh whoa is me - somebody help me, " when it back fires. Grow up and take responsibility for your actions.

Sorry - got on a little rant there.

 

[Ernman]

I have some inside sources in NYC - hydroxychloroquine is working amazing.

This is going to be the biggest nothing burger in the history of the world, death rate with meds will drop to 0.1% screenshot this and by Mylan shares while they’re still under $150

I hope you're right about the reduction in death rate Rivoli. But this is far from a "nothing burger." Even if it ended today and there were no more deaths, this would still be far from a nothing burger. Of course, if you really feel it is a nothing burger - you can go tell those who have lost loved ones there was nothing to this virus, it was over blown and we over reacted.

 

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[Ernman]

Maybe a little too rosy? I am worried that Ducey is being too reactive in this and given our older population we are in for a disastrous April and May.

Edit: maybe I spoke too soon. Just announced minutes ago: Gov. Ducey ends school year for Arizona students

Meanwhile in Florida, Gov DeSantis is putting up check points to control people coming from hotspots and may refuse to let a cruise ship offload US citizens who have been stuck at sea for an extended period with 4 dead and many sick. This is the same governor who wasn't worried about leaving the beaches open so we could soak up all those "spring break" dollars. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

This is going to be the biggest nothing burger in the history of the world

Has it ever occurred to you that CV might become a "nothing burger" because of the world's swift action? Social distancing? Quarantines? Putting the issue at the forefront of the world psyche? There has been a massive industrial and scientific mobilization, there's been radical social disruption, and worldwide public awareness is at a peak-- you will NEVER quantify how these measures could have turned a huge problem into a smaller one.

In the end, these drastic measures -- the very ones you impugn -- might be the ones that allow you to gloat about your perceived version of the truth.

In other words, because we don't have insight into the OUTCOMES of doing nothing, business-as-usual (the kind of non-response you advocate) you will NEVER be able to prove yourself right, something I know you very much want.

 

[Jon L]

Has it ever occurred to you that CV might become a "nothing burger" because of the world's swift action? Social distancing? Quarantines? Putting the issue at the forefront of the world psyche? There has been a massive industrial and scientific mobilization, there's been radical social disruption, and worldwide public awareness is at a peak-- you will NEVER quantify how these measures could have turned a huge problem into a smaller one.

In the end, these drastic measures -- the very ones you impugn -- might be the ones that allow you to gloat about your perceived version of the truth.

In other words, because we don't have insight into the OUTCOMES of doing nothing, business-as-usual (the kind of non-response you advocate) you will NEVER be able to prove yourself right, something I know you very much want.

This reminds me of the common trope about Y2K. "Everyone said it was going to be the end of the world, but then Y2K happened, and we were all fine."

Yeah. Everything was fine because billions of dollars were spent and many programmers worked for several years to make sure everything worked come Jan 1, 2000.

Same exact thing here. Countless people across the globe are working the problem. If it becomes a 'nothing burger,' like you said, it will be because of all that effort.

Still...37,000 dead (and counting) isn't nothing.

 

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[GIlman]

I have some inside sources in NYC - hydroxychloroquine is working amazing.

This is going to be the biggest nothing burger in the history of the world, death rate with meds will drop to 0.1% screenshot this and by Mylan shares while they’re still under $150

Well although we all hope you are right, your analysis on this thread has historically been premature and down right wrong. Remember when you posted the graph from Italy like 2 weeks ago because there was 1 or two days of a slight drop, that then shot up and continued to go up. Several people, myself included, have pointed out the problems with your interpretations. You jump immediately to conclusions that are not founded in the evidence, which for me has trashed your credibility as a source of any reliable information.

Other people here are posting data or sources for other people to evaluate and verify for themselves. When you have posted articles, even a quick reading of them has shown them to actually debunk not support your position. This is what many of your posts are missing, you make statements then no data to reasonably support your position. Please post something so people can evaluate your “analysis” on their own.

Hydroxychloroquine has been used around the world, and it seems the virus is still spreading, which for me raises questions if HC is effective - hopefully this is not true. So I’m going to reserve judgement on HC effectiveness until I see a good credible study.

 

[Rivoli]

Has it ever occurred to you that CV might become a "nothing burger" because of the world's swift action? Social distancing? Quarantines? Putting the issue at the forefront of the world psyche? There has been a massive industrial and scientific mobilization, there's been radical social disruption, and worldwide public awareness is at a peak-- you will NEVER quantify how these measures could have turned a huge problem into a smaller one.

In the end, these drastic measures -- the very ones you impugn -- might be the ones that allow you to gloat about your perceived version of the truth.

In other words, because we don't have insight into the OUTCOMES of doing nothing, business-as-usual (the kind of non-response you advocate) you will NEVER be able to prove yourself right, something I know you very much want.

Death rate with MEDS. If HCQ is as effective my early data points are telling me, deathrate without mitigation will be similar to the 2017-2018 flu outbreak.

 

[ChrisV]

Death rate with MEDS. If HCQ is as effective my early data points are telling me, deathrate without mitigation will be similar to the 2017-2018 flu outbreak.

Your data points? lol

 

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[TheCj]

Today was the first day we had less infected cases in the province of Ontario than the day before. Yet the way the media is reporting things all people hear is 350 new cases and the total has now "grown" 1706. When if look at the break down the cases of overall "Infected" has dropped by 82 and the cases of recovered has increased by 432. Since they are reporting "Total" Cases as a sum of infected, recovered and dead. :|

So this would make 2 days in a row now that the net number (Newly Discovered minus Recovered) of "Infected" Cases in Canada has dropped day over day.

Mar-28 was 683
Mar-29 was 510
Today is 202

So of course the question is why wouldn't this be more News worthy???
Of course this is believing that the numbers being reported are true (I have my doubts). Or maybe I'm reading the numbers wrong... I've reached out to the content editor for there thoughts.

 

[Rabby]

I have some inside sources in NYC - hydroxychloroquine is working amazing.

This is going to be the biggest nothing burger in the history of the world, death rate with meds will drop to 0.1% screenshot this and by Mylan shares while they’re still under $150

What's killing me is that we've known this is effective against multiple strains of influenza and coronavirus for over 100 years and we just can't seem to make use of it in a timely manner. Perhaps it should have been the first course of action in Italy.

 

[Rabby]

I got one of my backup orders today for quinine, the plain old tree bark kind. All the way from Indonesia, go figure... now to figure out a reasonable purity test. Amazon failed to deliver, and I have a second backup on the way, also plain old tree bark quinine. Last line of defense if the hospitals fail to help. Everyone here's healthy so far though.

 

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[Jon L]

What's killing me is that we've known this is effective against multiple strains of influenza and coronavirus for over 100 years and we just can't seem to make use of it in a timely manner. Perhaps it should have been the first course of action in Italy.

It kills a certain small percentage of people that take it. Looking at the prescribing information for it, they don't list the percent of people that it kills, and I wasn't able to find a death rate online quickly. I can understand why they would be hesitant about just 'tossing this stuff in the water supply' unless they can clearly show that it works.

 

[James Klymus]

Former Virginia Governor Ralph Northam - March

Governor Ralph Northam, 73rd Governor of Virginia

www.governor.virginia.gov

Virginia decided to issue a shelter in place until June 10.

What I'd like to know is how the hourly workers, who will have 0 income for 2 months, are going to cope with this.

Is this really necessary, to shut down the state for 2 months? Cant you play it by ear, and see if this situation levels off in a few weeks time?

And the economic implications from this.. This is starting to look like a race to see who can be the most "proactive" and "woke" governor.

At some point we have to understand that people are going to die either way. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. People will die from the flu, Pneumonia, accidents, heart attacks, Tuberculosis, and cancer.

And that begs the moral question: Is it worth impacting hundreds of millions of people's lives just to save a few thousand?

We need to prevent people from dying, but we need to also prevent a crippled economy, which will impact far, FAR, many more people than this disease will, By orders of magnitude. Not to bring in to question the psychological effects brought on by being isolated for months.

https://www.who.int/gard/publications/The_Global_Impact_of_Respiratory_Disease.pdf

"Respiratory tract infections caused by influenza kill between 250,000 and 500,000 people and cost between US$71 and 167 billion annually [7]."

"A total of 9 million children under 5 years old die annually, and pneumonia is the world’s leading killer of these children [1]."

Why don't we approach influenza and pneumonia with the same haste and restrictive measures as we do COVID 19? Have we all collectively agreed that "hey as many as 500,000 people just have to die every year of complications caused by the flu. That's just the way it is."

My point is this: How can we be as minimally invasive on the general population, while still protecting at risk people? Does that require EVERYBODY to be locked down?

 

[Rabby]

It kills a certain small percentage of people that take it. Looking at the prescribing information for it, they don't list the percent of people that it kills, and I wasn't able to find a death rate online quickly. I can understand why they would be hesitant about just 'tossing this stuff in the water supply' unless they can clearly show that it works.

There are definitely potential dosing issues. Then again, the same can be said of paracetamol. And there are probably people who have some kind of sensitivity. My dad got malaria in the Korea conflict, so I have some familiarity with quinine (malaria can be like an old friend that keeps coming back to visit).

Someone offered me lab grade powder of the synthetic form and I said I didn't want it in the house. Unlike most people, I actually have accurate lab scales here, but I still don't want something around that might kill me in relatively small doses if measured incorrectly.

With the tree bark form, it's there in the case of emergency (where normal medical help is unavailable), and there is a reduced likelihood that in my fevered state I would hork down enough powdered tree bark to end myself.

I do have friends who are older than me and with medical conditions, whose doctors proactively sent them hydroxyquinone capsules. Instructions to take only in emergency. I think that's a wise course of action for them, and good sense on the part of their doctors.

 

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[Rivoli]

Your data points? lol

I’m in contact with 3 nurses in the NYC area and they said HCQ is working really really well. The usually administer it before putting someone on a vent and in every case the day after the start proscribing there’s a huge improvement.

Got to give him credit... Statistically, the chances of him being wrong about every single thing he's written in this thread is astronomical, but he's managed to do it.

That's actually pretty impressive!

Laugh all you want but I’ve been right about everything. You’ll see.

 

[ChrisV]

I’m in contact with 3 nurses in the NYC area and they said HCQ is working really really well. The usually administer it before putting someone on a vent and in every case the day after the start proscribing there’s a huge improvement.

Ah, I see the issue. We were defining the word 'data' differently. I've always called those "anecdotes," but regardless - I genuinely hope you're right. I hope this turns out to be the world's biggest 'nothing-burger.' I mean if it does, it will be due to our quick action but regardless of how or why I do hope things turn out that way.