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The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

MTF

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Found a video of how India is enforcing its lockdown.

I’m sorry but lmfao

It might not be this "funny" soon:

“If people do not listen and stay indoors, we will be forced to implement a 24-hour curfew,” said K Chandrashekar Rao. “If people continue to be on the streets, then the army has to be called out and shoot on sight orders may be issued.

That's from Chief Minister of India’s Telangana state. Classy. Way to save lives by killing others.

source: ‘Shoot violators on sight’: India creaks under strain of total nationwide coronavirus lockdown
 
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MattR82

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Pretty messed up in India
I did joke to my friend that just returned from there in time that he narrowly avoided a lathis stick beating, but felt bad for saying it after reading into it a bit more.
 

Kak

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I've clearly upset you. And for that, I apologize. It honestly wasn't my intent.

I am sorry.

I have been wrong more times than I can count on all the fingers in the world. Not only do I have no problem admitting that, but I'm very proud of it. I attribute much of my success to the fact that I'm not ashamed to screw up -- and it's something I've probably done more than most people.

If it makes you feel better to hear me admit that I've been wrong LOTS of times on this forum, I will happily admit it! And if it will make you feel better to hear me admit it again tomorrow and the next day and the day after that, all you have to do is remind me and I'll happily do it. I'm certainly never going to be ashamed about making a mistake or being wrong. And I thank every single person here who has corrected me and helped ensure that the information I provide is accurate and valuable. Because that's good for everyone.

I wish you the best, and I hope you find success one day.

With all sincerity, if there's ever anything I can ever help you with, don't hesitate to reach out to me.

Honestly, no worries man. I appreciate that.

My apologies for getting bent out of shape more than I should have. These are emotional times unfortunately. Stuck in our homes and pissed off... We are all in this together in a strange way.

Let’s move forward. Clean slate.
 

biggeemac

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Honestly, no worries man. I appreciate that.

My apologies for getting bent out of shape more than I should have. These are emotional times unfortunately. Stuck in our homes and pissed off... We are all in this together in a strange way.

Let’s move forward. Clean slate.
Wow, a socially distanced bro hug. Gotta love TMF in the middle of Corona winter.
 
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Ernman

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I rather liked this mindset and how to apply it towards our current predicament.

It's funny how the important stuff recirculates. I quoted ADM Stockdale somewhere around pages 80ish. Here it is again. This is such an important mind set. We can't stress this enough!
 

Bekit

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I'm scratching my head over the immense discrepancy we're seeing between the DATA about this virus and the RESPONSE.

The way the virus has exploded has made complete sense to me as things have unfolded. Based on the data, the virus's worldwide explosion has been perfectly consistent with what I have expected ever since late January.

What hasn't made one trace of sense to me is the worldwide response. It's as if all the world leaders (other than in a very small handful of countries, e.g. South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, etc.) are operating out of the same flawed playbook. And it's a response that seems to have absolutely nothing to do with the facts that we know about biology or epidemiology.

Whenever there's a mismatch between the facts and the response, it triggers a lot of unanswered questions for me.

Here's an illustration.

The data:
31635

Expected Response:
:eek::eek::eek:
Oh my goodness! What happened to your dog? I am so sorry! Is it ok? What happened?

Actual Response:
:rofl::rofl::hilarious: People are laughing.

***Discrepancy detected between expected response and actual response.***

***Searches for explanation***

Option 1: The data is wrong
Option 2: The response is wrong. People are cruel, heartless monsters to laugh at this.

Turns out that in this case, it was option 1. Specifically, my interpretation of the data was wrong.

Missing Puzzle Piece: The corgi got into the jam jar.

*whew!* All is well.

31636

So let's apply that to this virus situation .

Option 1: Are leaders responding this way because the data is wrong? Do they know something we don't?
Option 2: Or is the data real and this mismatch of a response is due to some other agenda? I mean, obviously, for the people who are making these decisions, this response seems to make sense to them.

I've been cycling through various hypotheses in my head, looking for the missing puzzle piece that would explain this discrepancy. So far, I'm coming up empty.

  1. The data is wrong.
    1. Maybe this was the world's biggest social proof experiment. Because China reacted so dramatically, everyone believesthe disease is worse than it is. What if China just made a big deal of a mere 3,000 deaths on purpose, just to watch the rest of the world scramble?
      • But then, wouldn't this already have become apparent by this time? Seems like we have ample proof from Italy, New York, etc. that the virus is indeed serious and warrants aggressive counter measures.
    2. Maybe the symptoms aren't as serious as the medical journals, autopsy reports, and patient anecdotes suggest, and it really is "just like the flu."
      • So do we throw out science in order to declare the data wrong? We'd essentially have to assume a huge conspiracy involving all the doctors and researchers and peer reviewers and other established, reputable scientific voices, as well as compliance by supposed "patients" who tell their stories. That seems about as far-fetched as what the flat earthers do.

  2. The response is wrong.
    1. Are all the politicians clueless, and their "too-little-too-late" response is because this just snuck up on them and caught them unaware?
      • Doesn't make sense. Congress was briefed on this back in early to mid January. Same thing for Canadian politicians. MJ reported on January 21 that the virus moved the market. I'm guessing this was probably when all the "INSIDERS" pulled out their money after being briefed on the seriousness of the situation. And then many of those same people went on to downplay the severity of the virus to the general public. We see they weren't putting their money where their mouth was. Why?
    2. Are all these countries responding this way because China has everybody over a barrel and is requiring nations to do what China says?
      1. This seems consistent with the fact that the WHO was basically China's puppet in the early stages of this outbreak, rather than an organization that communicates serious information consistent with science.
      2. But it's not at all consistent with the fact that the US closed down flights from China at a very early date.
      3. It stretches credulity on many levels to think that China has achieved this level of clout.
    3. Is this response something that was decided on in some "smoke-filled-back-room" where world leaders decided this would be a great way to address overpopulation and pop a precarious economic bubble at the same time?
      1. There's a whole bunch of chatter online about "Event 201" and "Agenda 21" and so forth. I haven't made this a subject of much investigation because I don't like to get sucked into discussions like that, plus I don't know how much insight I would get from it.
      2. If some "smoke-filled-back-room" decision is playing into the response we're seeing, it's not like it will be easy to find out. Someone would have to snitch. Short of some kind of Watergate-style investigative reporting, regular people like me probably won't ever know this one. So I've decided not to pursue it because what's the point.
      3. But if it is the case, I would find it to be justifiably infuriating.
    4. Do world leaders have access to data models that no one else is seeing, which indicate that their actions should be just what we've seen them do?
      1. I doubt that a model like this could survive being leaked.
      2. It's hard to conceive of a model with ANY merit that would suggest actions like "withhold tests from most people, delay acting until it's too late, put health care workers in danger of their lives by failing to prepare adequate equipment for them, and spend a long time telling the public the exact opposite of the truth."
    5. So is this just what naturally happens when you have too many politicians who are liars and narcissists and people who won't take responsibility?

Just one illustration of the way that this nonsensical response has played out: The way that doctors and nurses are being treated by health care administrators (so it's not just politicians).


Quotes from this article:
Attending Physician, WA: "I was in the middle of doing an exam on a patient when an administrator from my hospital interrupted the visit to speak to me. He asked if the patient was at high risk for COVID infection. When I explained that he was not, he told me to immediately take off my mask. When I refused, he ripped it off my face, stating: 'You are giving patients the impression that COVID is far worse than it is.'"

Physician Assistant, VT: “I work in a community hospital. I was wearing an N-95 mask I brought from home since our hospital was out of stock. A hospital administrator told me I could not wear one because unless I had enough with me to give to everyone, no one could wear them. He put a written complaint in my file when my response was, ‘I have heard of share-day in preschool— but must have missed the It's share-day in the ER memo.'"

Attending Physician, NY: “I was just placed on administrative leave indefinitely because I sent an email to the entire administrative team of the health system where I work, questioning (firmly) why they had yet to create an operationalized system that hospital staff and physicians could follow so positive COVID patients in our hospital could be separated from those who did not have it."

Medical Assistant, CA: “After a Zoom meeting where we were told we no longer needed to wear PPE if we were not within two feet of an ill patient, I asked the director of health services in our healthcare system running the meeting if exceptions could be made for those individuals who were immune-compromised like myself, since I had just returned to work after a short leave due to treatment for breast cancer. His response: 'Do you think having cancer makes you special? If you don’t agree with these recommendations then you can self-elect to use PTO and stay at home.'”

Critical Care Physician, AZ: "As a critical care physician, I asked our hospital administration what they expected me and my colleagues to do if we were faced with a situation where our need for ventilators exceeded what we had available. His response: 'Do the best you can.' I questioned this by requesting something more procedural and in writing that physicians could follow but was told, 'We don’t have time to put together a protocol for a situation that will likely never happen. However, if this time comes, we can discuss it then.' Apparently being proactive is outside the scope of healthcare administrators capabilities.”

Registered Nurse, CA: “Our administrators said they would be working from home and would not be coming into the hospital. I inquired as to why. They told us that their contributions to the work flows at this time were not as important as ours as healthcare employees, and they didn’t want to risk increasing the numbers of those infected. Another nurse sitting next to me in the same on-line meeting asked, ‘If you aren’t as important as those of us coming in to work every day amidst this COVID crisis then why do you get paid four times more than what physicians do?’ The administrator ended the meeting without responding.”

Attending Physician, WA: “The administrators called an emergency meeting to discuss PPE. As an Infectious Disease specialist, I requested to be in attendance. I was told this would not be necessary, however, I was assured that no formal decisions as they pertained to PPE would be made without administration first gathering my input. Not more than an hour after the meeting was due to start, a mass email was sent to the entire hospital system workforce of nearly 10,000 people stating that masks would be given out on a case-by-case basis determined only by those on the administrative team. In other words, it wouldn’t be those with a medical or nursing degree determining who needed a mask and who did not, but instead those with a business one. Smart.”

Central Supply Director, KY: “There are approximately 20,000 masks sitting in our central supply storage with an expiration date of January 2020. Despite this, I made a recommendation that we redistribute them to other hospitals in our system who needed them. The next day at work, all the masks were off the inventory list and I was later told by my boss that I should not ask questions about system recommendations that are outside of my pay grade.”

Medical Clinic Manager, CA: “In the healthcare system I belong to, we currently have two CEO’s each making nearly $10 million dollars a year. They run the largest healthcare corporation in the nation, yet when I asked in January if we could be proactive about COVID, I was told by hospital administration that funds were tight and we wouldn’t be able to order excess PPE in preparation. As I was walking away from the administrator he said, ‘Take my advice, if you have stocks, start selling them.’ I didn’t understand what he meant by this until now. They knew this was coming yet did nothing to prepare.”

Attending Physician, PA: “I and my other surgeon colleagues each received a phone call from our hospital CEO that despite recommendations from the Surgeon General, under no circumstances were we to take it upon ourselves to reschedule elective surgeries. If we did, we would risk losing our jobs.”

Attending Physician, TX: “I overheard the CFO from our hospital system tell our hospital president that they were allocating insurance reimbursement money as a potential bonus opportunity to hospital administrators who were able to stay on budget without costing them more amid this COVID (and I quote) 'shit-show.'”

Attending Physician, SC: “I recently came down with a low-grade fever and chills. I emailed my clinic manager suggesting I be tested for COVID. I was told not to test due to the need for me in the clinic and to wait until I was showing signs of shortness of breath. I didn’t realize that the administrators running the show had in their spare time, obtained a degree to practice medicine.”

=============

I'm sure books will eventually be written that uncover some of these missing puzzle pieces. For now, though, I'm just scratching my head.
 
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Ernman

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The people who disagree with each other should be pointing fingers at each other's sources, not at each other.
@JAJT - for the record, I'm 100% onboard with NOT letting this thread degrade into name calling. Overall, we've done a good job of that - with some exceptions - and folks have even apologized and admitted they let their emotions get in the way.

So please don't take this wrong, but I remember this quote from somebody,
"Numbers don't lie, But liars use numbers." Even the best stats can be twisted to support one's position if they're good at it.
 

Primeperiwinkle

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I'm scratching my head over the immense discrepancy we're seeing between the DATA about this virus and the RESPONSE.

The way the virus has exploded has made complete sense to me as things have unfolded. Based on the data, the virus's worldwide explosion has been perfectly consistent with what I have expected ever since late January.

What hasn't made one trace of sense to me is the worldwide response. It's as if all the world leaders (other than in a very small handful of countries, e.g. South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, etc.) are operating out of the same flawed playbook. And it's a response that seems to have absolutely nothing to do with the facts that we know about biology or epidemiology.

Whenever there's a mismatch between the facts and the response, it triggers a lot of unanswered questions for me.

Here's an illustration.

The data:
View attachment 31635

Expected Response:
:eek::eek::eek:
Oh my goodness! What happened to your dog? I am so sorry! Is it ok? What happened?

Actual Response:
:rofl::rofl::hilarious: People are laughing.

***Discrepancy detected between expected response and actual response.***

***Searches for explanation***

Option 1: The data is wrong
Option 2: The response is wrong. People are cruel, heartless monsters to laugh at this.

Turns out that in this case, it was option 1. Specifically, my interpretation of the data was wrong.

Missing Puzzle Piece: The corgi got into the jam jar.

*whew!* All is well.

View attachment 31636

So let's apply that to this virus situation .

Option 1: Are leaders responding this way because the data is wrong? Do they know something we don't?
Option 2: Or is the data real and this mismatch of a response is due to some other agenda? I mean, obviously, for the people who are making these decisions, this response seems to make sense to them.

I've been cycling through various hypotheses in my head, looking for the missing puzzle piece that would explain this discrepancy. So far, I'm coming up empty.

  1. The data is wrong.
    1. Maybe this was the world's biggest social proof experiment. Because China reacted so dramatically, everyone believesthe disease is worse than it is. What if China just made a big deal of a mere 3,000 deaths on purpose, just to watch the rest of the world scramble?
      • But then, wouldn't this already have become apparent by this time? Seems like we have ample proof from Italy, New York, etc. that the virus is indeed serious and warrants aggressive counter measures.
    2. Maybe the symptoms aren't as serious as the medical journals, autopsy reports, and patient anecdotes suggest, and it really is "just like the flu."
      • So do we throw out science in order to declare the data wrong? We'd essentially have to assume a huge conspiracy involving all the doctors and researchers and peer reviewers and other established, reputable scientific voices, as well as compliance by supposed "patients" who tell their stories. That seems about as far-fetched as what the flat earthers do.
  2. The response is wrong.
    1. Are all the politicians clueless, and their "too-little-too-late" response is because this just snuck up on them and caught them unaware?
      • Doesn't make sense. Congress was briefed on this back in early to mid January. Same thing for Canadian politicians. MJ reported on January 21 that the virus moved the market. I'm guessing this was probably when all the "INSIDERS" pulled out their money after being briefed on the seriousness of the situation. And then many of those same people went on to downplay the severity of the virus to the general public. We see they weren't putting their money where their mouth was. Why?
    2. Are all these countries responding this way because China has everybody over a barrel and is requiring nations to do what China says?
      1. This seems consistent with the fact that the WHO was basically China's puppet in the early stages of this outbreak, rather than an organization that communicates serious information consistent with science.
      2. But it's not at all consistent with the fact that the US closed down flights from China at a very early date.
      3. It stretches credulity on many levels to think that China has achieved this level of clout.
    3. Is this response something that was decided on in some "smoke-filled-back-room" where world leaders decided this would be a great way to address overpopulation and pop a precarious economic bubble at the same time?
      1. There's a whole bunch of chatter online about "Event 201" and "Agenda 21" and so forth. I haven't made this a subject of much investigation because I don't like to get sucked into discussions like that, plus I don't know how much insight I would get from it.
      2. If some "smoke-filled-back-room" decision is playing into the response we're seeing, it's not like it will be easy to find out. Someone would have to snitch. Short of some kind of Watergate-style investigative reporting, regular people like me probably won't ever know this one. So I've decided not to pursue it because what's the point.
      3. But if it is the case, I would find it to be justifiably infuriating.
    4. Do world leaders have access to data models that no one else is seeing, which indicate that their actions should be just what we've seen them do?
      1. I doubt that a model like this could survive being leaked.
      2. It's hard to conceive of a model with ANY merit that would suggest actions like "withhold tests from most people, delay acting until it's too late, put health care workers in danger of their lives by failing to prepare adequate equipment for them, and spend a long time telling the public the exact opposite of the truth."
    5. So is this just what naturally happens when you have too many politicians who are liars and narcissists and people who won't take responsibility?

Just one illustration of the way that this nonsensical response has played out: The way that doctors and nurses are being treated by health care administrators (so it's not just politicians).


Quotes from this article:
Attending Physician, WA: "I was in the middle of doing an exam on a patient when an administrator from my hospital interrupted the visit to speak to me. He asked if the patient was at high risk for COVID infection. When I explained that he was not, he told me to immediately take off my mask. When I refused, he ripped it off my face, stating: 'You are giving patients the impression that COVID is far worse than it is.'"

Physician Assistant, VT: “I work in a community hospital. I was wearing an N-95 mask I brought from home since our hospital was out of stock. A hospital administrator told me I could not wear one because unless I had enough with me to give to everyone, no one could wear them. He put a written complaint in my file when my response was, ‘I have heard of share-day in preschool— but must have missed the It's share-day in the ER memo.'"

Attending Physician, NY: “I was just placed on administrative leave indefinitely because I sent an email to the entire administrative team of the health system where I work, questioning (firmly) why they had yet to create an operationalized system that hospital staff and physicians could follow so positive COVID patients in our hospital could be separated from those who did not have it."

Medical Assistant, CA: “After a Zoom meeting where we were told we no longer needed to wear PPE if we were not within two feet of an ill patient, I asked the director of health services in our healthcare system running the meeting if exceptions could be made for those individuals who were immune-compromised like myself, since I had just returned to work after a short leave due to treatment for breast cancer. His response: 'Do you think having cancer makes you special? If you don’t agree with these recommendations then you can self-elect to use PTO and stay at home.'”

Critical Care Physician, AZ: "As a critical care physician, I asked our hospital administration what they expected me and my colleagues to do if we were faced with a situation where our need for ventilators exceeded what we had available. His response: 'Do the best you can.' I questioned this by requesting something more procedural and in writing that physicians could follow but was told, 'We don’t have time to put together a protocol for a situation that will likely never happen. However, if this time comes, we can discuss it then.' Apparently being proactive is outside the scope of healthcare administrators capabilities.”

Registered Nurse, CA: “Our administrators said they would be working from home and would not be coming into the hospital. I inquired as to why. They told us that their contributions to the work flows at this time were not as important as ours as healthcare employees, and they didn’t want to risk increasing the numbers of those infected. Another nurse sitting next to me in the same on-line meeting asked, ‘If you aren’t as important as those of us coming in to work every day amidst this COVID crisis then why do you get paid four times more than what physicians do?’ The administrator ended the meeting without responding.”

Attending Physician, WA: “The administrators called an emergency meeting to discuss PPE. As an Infectious Disease specialist, I requested to be in attendance. I was told this would not be necessary, however, I was assured that no formal decisions as they pertained to PPE would be made without administration first gathering my input. Not more than an hour after the meeting was due to start, a mass email was sent to the entire hospital system workforce of nearly 10,000 people stating that masks would be given out on a case-by-case basis determined only by those on the administrative team. In other words, it wouldn’t be those with a medical or nursing degree determining who needed a mask and who did not, but instead those with a business one. Smart.”

Central Supply Director, KY: “There are approximately 20,000 masks sitting in our central supply storage with an expiration date of January 2020. Despite this, I made a recommendation that we redistribute them to other hospitals in our system who needed them. The next day at work, all the masks were off the inventory list and I was later told by my boss that I should not ask questions about system recommendations that are outside of my pay grade.”

Medical Clinic Manager, CA: “In the healthcare system I belong to, we currently have two CEO’s each making nearly $10 million dollars a year. They run the largest healthcare corporation in the nation, yet when I asked in January if we could be proactive about COVID, I was told by hospital administration that funds were tight and we wouldn’t be able to order excess PPE in preparation. As I was walking away from the administrator he said, ‘Take my advice, if you have stocks, start selling them.’ I didn’t understand what he meant by this until now. They knew this was coming yet did nothing to prepare.”

Attending Physician, PA: “I and my other surgeon colleagues each received a phone call from our hospital CEO that despite recommendations from the Surgeon General, under no circumstances were we to take it upon ourselves to reschedule elective surgeries. If we did, we would risk losing our jobs.”

Attending Physician, TX: “I overheard the CFO from our hospital system tell our hospital president that they were allocating insurance reimbursement money as a potential bonus opportunity to hospital administrators who were able to stay on budget without costing them more amid this COVID (and I quote) 'shit-show.'”

Attending Physician, SC: “I recently came down with a low-grade fever and chills. I emailed my clinic manager suggesting I be tested for COVID. I was told not to test due to the need for me in the clinic and to wait until I was showing signs of shortness of breath. I didn’t realize that the administrators running the show had in their spare time, obtained a degree to practice medicine.”

=============

I'm sure books will eventually be written that uncover some of these missing puzzle pieces. For now, though, I'm just scratching my head.

I love you because you take the time to put this stuff down clearly and concisely.

I think people in power DID know and saved themselves first as much as they could while keeping other ppl in the dark because explaining the truth takes courage AND creates responsibility for the person telling it. If a leader stands up and declares that such and such a thing will happen.. they will be attacked. They don’t want to help the people. They want to keep their death grip of control on a system that is not communist enough to shoot the sick and not capitalist enough to trust in its citizens.

Bekit I thought you had gone off the deep end into crazy town when you first started posting. I didn’t mock you because I just don’t do that.. but if someone else had I would have nodded and laughed. I didn’t take it seriously. You were taking it seriously. Very, very seriously.

If ANY person starts acting (instead of reacting) and doing common sense things in the real world about this virus they MUST be shut up because it would mean people would have to wake up and face the music.

The world doesn’t want truth. They don’t want to suffer or sacrifice or change, not for real.

They want to be “alarmed” and “panicky” or “excitable” but only the way you are on a rollercoaster that will be over soon. So last week it was toilet paper and this week it’s stimulus checks and the week after that will be some other random way to excite the public, distract them from what’s really happening, and keep them under control.

World leaders know this. They’ve gotten where they are by kowtowing to the crowd. They know how to walk the line between culpability and denial.

In the last three weeks I ended all manner of things.. financial obligations. I packed up my kids and put all my stuff in storage, got the heck out of multiple leases (while it’s still legal to do so) stocked up on essentials before anyone else did and left my entire life behind.

Because you and other ppl like you, changed my mind. I now firmly believe that I made the best choice at the right time but it was done with terror and panic attacks and crying. And I’m used to stress!! I’m totally capable in a crisis situation ffs.

If everybody does what I just did there WILL be anarchy. Because you can’t have entire cities of ppl up and moving. The government would lose control. They would lose their tax money. They would lose their order. They would lose consumers.

Governments and every administrative a**hole in power loves control. They will try to keep it at all costs.
 

GIlman

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I'm scratching my head over the immense discrepancy we're seeing between the DATA about this virus and the RESPONSE.

The way the virus has exploded has made complete sense to me as things have unfolded. Based on the data, the virus's worldwide explosion has been perfectly consistent with what I have expected ever since late January.

What hasn't made one trace of sense to me is the worldwide response. It's as if all the world leaders (other than in a very small handful of countries, e.g. South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, etc.) are operating out of the same flawed playbook. And it's a response that seems to have absolutely nothing to do with the facts that we know about biology or epidemiology.

Whenever there's a mismatch between the facts and the response, it triggers a lot of unanswered questions for me.

Here's an illustration.

The data:
View attachment 31635

Expected Response:
:eek::eek::eek:
Oh my goodness! What happened to your dog? I am so sorry! Is it ok? What happened?

Actual Response:
:rofl::rofl::hilarious: People are laughing.

***Discrepancy detected between expected response and actual response.***

***Searches for explanation***

Option 1: The data is wrong
Option 2: The response is wrong. People are cruel, heartless monsters to laugh at this.

Turns out that in this case, it was option 1. Specifically, my interpretation of the data was wrong.

Missing Puzzle Piece: The corgi got into the jam jar.

*whew!* All is well.

View attachment 31636

So let's apply that to this virus situation .

Option 1: Are leaders responding this way because the data is wrong? Do they know something we don't?
Option 2: Or is the data real and this mismatch of a response is due to some other agenda? I mean, obviously, for the people who are making these decisions, this response seems to make sense to them.

I've been cycling through various hypotheses in my head, looking for the missing puzzle piece that would explain this discrepancy. So far, I'm coming up empty.

  1. The data is wrong.
    1. Maybe this was the world's biggest social proof experiment. Because China reacted so dramatically, everyone believesthe disease is worse than it is. What if China just made a big deal of a mere 3,000 deaths on purpose, just to watch the rest of the world scramble?
      • But then, wouldn't this already have become apparent by this time? Seems like we have ample proof from Italy, New York, etc. that the virus is indeed serious and warrants aggressive counter measures.
    2. Maybe the symptoms aren't as serious as the medical journals, autopsy reports, and patient anecdotes suggest, and it really is "just like the flu."
      • So do we throw out science in order to declare the data wrong? We'd essentially have to assume a huge conspiracy involving all the doctors and researchers and peer reviewers and other established, reputable scientific voices, as well as compliance by supposed "patients" who tell their stories. That seems about as far-fetched as what the flat earthers do.
  2. The response is wrong.
    1. Are all the politicians clueless, and their "too-little-too-late" response is because this just snuck up on them and caught them unaware?
      • Doesn't make sense. Congress was briefed on this back in early to mid January. Same thing for Canadian politicians. MJ reported on January 21 that the virus moved the market. I'm guessing this was probably when all the "INSIDERS" pulled out their money after being briefed on the seriousness of the situation. And then many of those same people went on to downplay the severity of the virus to the general public. We see they weren't putting their money where their mouth was. Why?
    2. Are all these countries responding this way because China has everybody over a barrel and is requiring nations to do what China says?
      1. This seems consistent with the fact that the WHO was basically China's puppet in the early stages of this outbreak, rather than an organization that communicates serious information consistent with science.
      2. But it's not at all consistent with the fact that the US closed down flights from China at a very early date.
      3. It stretches credulity on many levels to think that China has achieved this level of clout.
    3. Is this response something that was decided on in some "smoke-filled-back-room" where world leaders decided this would be a great way to address overpopulation and pop a precarious economic bubble at the same time?
      1. There's a whole bunch of chatter online about "Event 201" and "Agenda 21" and so forth. I haven't made this a subject of much investigation because I don't like to get sucked into discussions like that, plus I don't know how much insight I would get from it.
      2. If some "smoke-filled-back-room" decision is playing into the response we're seeing, it's not like it will be easy to find out. Someone would have to snitch. Short of some kind of Watergate-style investigative reporting, regular people like me probably won't ever know this one. So I've decided not to pursue it because what's the point.
      3. But if it is the case, I would find it to be justifiably infuriating.
    4. Do world leaders have access to data models that no one else is seeing, which indicate that their actions should be just what we've seen them do?
      1. I doubt that a model like this could survive being leaked.
      2. It's hard to conceive of a model with ANY merit that would suggest actions like "withhold tests from most people, delay acting until it's too late, put health care workers in danger of their lives by failing to prepare adequate equipment for them, and spend a long time telling the public the exact opposite of the truth."
    5. So is this just what naturally happens when you have too many politicians who are liars and narcissists and people who won't take responsibility?

Just one illustration of the way that this nonsensical response has played out: The way that doctors and nurses are being treated by health care administrators (so it's not just politicians).


Quotes from this article:
Attending Physician, WA: "I was in the middle of doing an exam on a patient when an administrator from my hospital interrupted the visit to speak to me. He asked if the patient was at high risk for COVID infection. When I explained that he was not, he told me to immediately take off my mask. When I refused, he ripped it off my face, stating: 'You are giving patients the impression that COVID is far worse than it is.'"

Physician Assistant, VT: “I work in a community hospital. I was wearing an N-95 mask I brought from home since our hospital was out of stock. A hospital administrator told me I could not wear one because unless I had enough with me to give to everyone, no one could wear them. He put a written complaint in my file when my response was, ‘I have heard of share-day in preschool— but must have missed the It's share-day in the ER memo.'"

Attending Physician, NY: “I was just placed on administrative leave indefinitely because I sent an email to the entire administrative team of the health system where I work, questioning (firmly) why they had yet to create an operationalized system that hospital staff and physicians could follow so positive COVID patients in our hospital could be separated from those who did not have it."

Medical Assistant, CA: “After a Zoom meeting where we were told we no longer needed to wear PPE if we were not within two feet of an ill patient, I asked the director of health services in our healthcare system running the meeting if exceptions could be made for those individuals who were immune-compromised like myself, since I had just returned to work after a short leave due to treatment for breast cancer. His response: 'Do you think having cancer makes you special? If you don’t agree with these recommendations then you can self-elect to use PTO and stay at home.'”

Critical Care Physician, AZ: "As a critical care physician, I asked our hospital administration what they expected me and my colleagues to do if we were faced with a situation where our need for ventilators exceeded what we had available. His response: 'Do the best you can.' I questioned this by requesting something more procedural and in writing that physicians could follow but was told, 'We don’t have time to put together a protocol for a situation that will likely never happen. However, if this time comes, we can discuss it then.' Apparently being proactive is outside the scope of healthcare administrators capabilities.”

Registered Nurse, CA: “Our administrators said they would be working from home and would not be coming into the hospital. I inquired as to why. They told us that their contributions to the work flows at this time were not as important as ours as healthcare employees, and they didn’t want to risk increasing the numbers of those infected. Another nurse sitting next to me in the same on-line meeting asked, ‘If you aren’t as important as those of us coming in to work every day amidst this COVID crisis then why do you get paid four times more than what physicians do?’ The administrator ended the meeting without responding.”

Attending Physician, WA: “The administrators called an emergency meeting to discuss PPE. As an Infectious Disease specialist, I requested to be in attendance. I was told this would not be necessary, however, I was assured that no formal decisions as they pertained to PPE would be made without administration first gathering my input. Not more than an hour after the meeting was due to start, a mass email was sent to the entire hospital system workforce of nearly 10,000 people stating that masks would be given out on a case-by-case basis determined only by those on the administrative team. In other words, it wouldn’t be those with a medical or nursing degree determining who needed a mask and who did not, but instead those with a business one. Smart.”

Central Supply Director, KY: “There are approximately 20,000 masks sitting in our central supply storage with an expiration date of January 2020. Despite this, I made a recommendation that we redistribute them to other hospitals in our system who needed them. The next day at work, all the masks were off the inventory list and I was later told by my boss that I should not ask questions about system recommendations that are outside of my pay grade.”

Medical Clinic Manager, CA: “In the healthcare system I belong to, we currently have two CEO’s each making nearly $10 million dollars a year. They run the largest healthcare corporation in the nation, yet when I asked in January if we could be proactive about COVID, I was told by hospital administration that funds were tight and we wouldn’t be able to order excess PPE in preparation. As I was walking away from the administrator he said, ‘Take my advice, if you have stocks, start selling them.’ I didn’t understand what he meant by this until now. They knew this was coming yet did nothing to prepare.”

Attending Physician, PA: “I and my other surgeon colleagues each received a phone call from our hospital CEO that despite recommendations from the Surgeon General, under no circumstances were we to take it upon ourselves to reschedule elective surgeries. If we did, we would risk losing our jobs.”

Attending Physician, TX: “I overheard the CFO from our hospital system tell our hospital president that they were allocating insurance reimbursement money as a potential bonus opportunity to hospital administrators who were able to stay on budget without costing them more amid this COVID (and I quote) 'shit-show.'”

Attending Physician, SC: “I recently came down with a low-grade fever and chills. I emailed my clinic manager suggesting I be tested for COVID. I was told not to test due to the need for me in the clinic and to wait until I was showing signs of shortness of breath. I didn’t realize that the administrators running the show had in their spare time, obtained a degree to practice medicine.”

=============

I'm sure books will eventually be written that uncover some of these missing puzzle pieces. For now, though, I'm just scratching my head.

This reminds me of a quote we use to hear all the time when we were in medical school and residency, “those who can do, those who can’t teach”. Ask nearly any doctor and I’m sure nearly all would have heard this.

The “teacher” type doctors so often become administrators and other advisor type people. From my experience the least competent physicians from a clinical perspective all to often are the ones that for what ever reason climb the administrative and political ladders.

Unless I needed some very rare procedure not commonly performed, I personally would not go to the big name hospital doing research. They collect incompetence at an astounding rate. These places put huge emphasis on pedegree and little emphasis on competence.

As opposed to your typical community hospital. Private medical groups will tolerate some nonsense, but much less. These groups greatly value competence and efficiency because it impacts the bottom line of the group. These groups see far more patients, have far more clinical and procedural experience, and from my own personal assessment all these leads to far out more competence.

I am very Leary of the “professionals” I hear on TV, even from the a top levels of the government. Their talk and response run counter to the data. It makes me believe they are smart political climbers not smart effective clinicians.
 
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ChickenHawk

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Medical Clinic Manager, CA: “In the healthcare system I belong to, we currently have two CEO’s each making nearly $10 million dollars a year. They run the largest healthcare corporation in the nation, yet when I asked in January if we could be proactive about COVID, I was told by hospital administration that funds were tight and we wouldn’t be able to order excess PPE in preparation. As I was walking away from the administrator he said, ‘Take my advice, if you have stocks, start selling them.’ I didn’t understand what he meant by this until now. They knew this was coming yet did nothing to prepare.”

All of those stories really made my blood boil, and I really enjoyed your analysis of the situation. IMO, a lot of this stems from the fact that we're ruled by selfish, pompous idiots on nearly every level.

In times of peace and plenty, their idiocy can be ignored and dismissed, whether it's an overpaid hospital administrator or a CDC leader who believes that trendy social issues are more important than disease prevention. It's all fun and games until a pandemic hits.
 

GIlman

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Flu pandemic 1830, flu pandemic 1918, CV 2020. Maybe this is simply how the simulation reboots.


B83D4E98-DFDC-4E1A-86A5-9D185FB181E9.png
 

Jon L

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For those of you that really want to dig into the data, Tableau has published C0VlD-19 statistics that are updated daily. Now, you can analyze to your heart's content:

C0VlD-19 (Coronavirus) Data Resource Hub

They do ask that you read through the following before you publish your resulting charts:

https://www.tableau.com/about/blog/2020/3/ten-considerations-you-create-another-chart-about-C0VlD-19

(visualize data responsibly)
 
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GIlman

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Unfortunately there was a study published 3/18 that casts serious doubt on the HIV drugs working.

This was not double blinded but it was a case controlled study, which is infinitely better than the previous case report which are essentially the equivalent of anecdotal medical stories. The results of this study are not promising at all for these drugs unfortunately.

 

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Unfortunately there was a study published 3/18 that casts serious doubt on the HIV drugs working.

This was not double blinded but it was a case controlled study, which is infinitely better than the previous case report which are essentially the equivalent of anecdotal medical stories. The results of this study are not promising at all for these drugs unfortunately.

What's the latest on some of the other drugs? (The malaria drug, the one from giliad and the one from Japan)
 

GIlman

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What's the latest on some of the other drugs? (The malaria drug, the one from giliad and the one from Japan)

The Gilead drug is remdesivir. A randomized controlled clinical trial was started in February by the NIH inNebraska. Realize that this is a new drug, they have to prove both safety and effectiveness. Either could be problems for this drug. I’ve heard rumors of possible liver issues with this drug, but this is just rumors. But it’s somewhat of a long road to do the studies. This drug is being used as compassionate use indication, I.e. you are experimenting on humans.

This is different than the existing HIV (lopinivir and ritonivir), flu (oseltimivir), antibiotics (azithromycin), and malaria (chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine) drugs that are being evaluated. All these drugs have extensive use and known safety profiles. It’s a matter of demonstrating any effectiveness. These drugs are being used off label, which we do all the time with lots of drugs. We do off label because they are approved for use in humans, just not specifically for coronavirus.

I’m constantly scanning the literature on all these drugs. Specifically I’m interested in hdroxychloroquine because initial case reports were hopeful. But when you do a proper study hopeful things often don’t work out. Most patients get better, so just because you have a patient a drug and the got better the question becomes whether the drug was responsible at all or if they just got better.

To date I’ve seen no proper study of hydroxychloroquine, but I’ll keep looking. The rate at which new articles and studies are being published is crazy, they are pushing stuff out as quickly as possible.
 
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The Gilead drug is remdesivir. A randomized controlled clinical trial was started in February by the NIH inNebraska. Realize that this is a new drug, they have to prove both safety and effectiveness. Either could be problems for this drug. I’ve heard rumors of possible liver issues with this drug, but this is just rumors. But it’s somewhat of a long road to do the studies. This drug is being used as compassionate use indication, I.e. you are experimenting on humans.

This is different than the existing HIV (lopinivir and ritonivir), flu (oseltimivir), antibiotics (azithromycin), and malaria (chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine) drugs that are being evaluated. All these drugs have extensive use and known safety profiles. It’s a matter of demonstrating any effectiveness. These drugs are being used off label, which we do all the time with lots of drugs. We do off label because they are approved for use in humans, just not specifically for coronavirus.

I’m constantly scanning the literature on all these drugs. Specifically I’m interested in hdroxychloroquine because initial case reports were hopeful. But when you do a proper study hopeful things often don’t work out. Most patients get better, so just because you have a patient a drug and the got better the question becomes whether the drug was responsible at all or if they just got better.

To date I’ve seen no proper study of hydroxychloroquine, but I’ll keep looking. The rate at which new articles and studies are being published is crazy, they are pushing stuff out as quickly as possible.
crossing my fingers.

The Japanese drug I was talking about was Favipiravir. Looks like its promising ... for now anyway

 

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Found a video of how India is enforcing its lockdown.

All public spots lock down. Local public transports have been closed. Police beating whoever roaming outside.

Being an Indian, I will say that these were the necessary steps. Indian have the tendency to not follow the laws. We don't follow much hygienic protocols.

If these drastic steps were not taken, i would say that India would have ranked top in the affective case and death in a month or two.

Even though the sudden lockdown is creating panic and many daily wagers/labor are suffering, but it's still a necessary step to take.

We don't have a good health system. And We live in crowded places. You all may know that most of us live in Joint family and our houses are very close to each other and we love to visit at other houses in society on a frequent basis. Which indirectly is very dangerous in spreading Covid.

So this lockdown and using force to keep people stay at home is the crucial and best step our government took.

As for panic situation... Well, true humanity is being shown here.

People are doing their best. Helping drivers, watchmen, beggars with the daily necessities like food, water, clothes etc.

Donating food in the society. Creating medical kits and necessities and distributing to those needy.

All of these from their own pockets.

Local Groups are creating a support fund and donating.

I don't know about other places, but here, I am seeing the spirit of human being and positive vibe of helping each other.

I pray for all of us to be safe. May we pass through this crisis soon.

God Bless Everyone.
 

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I'm scratching my head over the immense discrepancy we're seeing between the DATA about this virus and the RESPONSE.

The way the virus has exploded has made complete sense to me as things have unfolded. Based on the data, the virus's worldwide explosion has been perfectly consistent with what I have expected ever since late January.

What hasn't made one trace of sense to me is the worldwide response. It's as if all the world leaders (other than in a very small handful of countries, e.g. South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, etc.) are operating out of the same flawed playbook. And it's a response that seems to have absolutely nothing to do with the facts that we know about biology or epidemiology.

Whenever there's a mismatch between the facts and the response, it triggers a lot of unanswered questions for me.

Here's an illustration.

The data:
View attachment 31635

Expected Response:
:eek::eek::eek:
Oh my goodness! What happened to your dog? I am so sorry! Is it ok? What happened?

Actual Response:
:rofl::rofl::hilarious: People are laughing.

***Discrepancy detected between expected response and actual response.***

***Searches for explanation***

Option 1: The data is wrong
Option 2: The response is wrong. People are cruel, heartless monsters to laugh at this.

Turns out that in this case, it was option 1. Specifically, my interpretation of the data was wrong.

Missing Puzzle Piece: The corgi got into the jam jar.

*whew!* All is well.

View attachment 31636

So let's apply that to this virus situation .

Option 1: Are leaders responding this way because the data is wrong? Do they know something we don't?
Option 2: Or is the data real and this mismatch of a response is due to some other agenda? I mean, obviously, for the people who are making these decisions, this response seems to make sense to them.

I've been cycling through various hypotheses in my head, looking for the missing puzzle piece that would explain this discrepancy. So far, I'm coming up empty.

  1. The data is wrong.
    1. Maybe this was the world's biggest social proof experiment. Because China reacted so dramatically, everyone believesthe disease is worse than it is. What if China just made a big deal of a mere 3,000 deaths on purpose, just to watch the rest of the world scramble?
      • But then, wouldn't this already have become apparent by this time? Seems like we have ample proof from Italy, New York, etc. that the virus is indeed serious and warrants aggressive counter measures.
    2. Maybe the symptoms aren't as serious as the medical journals, autopsy reports, and patient anecdotes suggest, and it really is "just like the flu."
      • So do we throw out science in order to declare the data wrong? We'd essentially have to assume a huge conspiracy involving all the doctors and researchers and peer reviewers and other established, reputable scientific voices, as well as compliance by supposed "patients" who tell their stories. That seems about as far-fetched as what the flat earthers do.
  2. The response is wrong.
    1. Are all the politicians clueless, and their "too-little-too-late" response is because this just snuck up on them and caught them unaware?
      • Doesn't make sense. Congress was briefed on this back in early to mid January. Same thing for Canadian politicians. MJ reported on January 21 that the virus moved the market. I'm guessing this was probably when all the "INSIDERS" pulled out their money after being briefed on the seriousness of the situation. And then many of those same people went on to downplay the severity of the virus to the general public. We see they weren't putting their money where their mouth was. Why?
    2. Are all these countries responding this way because China has everybody over a barrel and is requiring nations to do what China says?
      1. This seems consistent with the fact that the WHO was basically China's puppet in the early stages of this outbreak, rather than an organization that communicates serious information consistent with science.
      2. But it's not at all consistent with the fact that the US closed down flights from China at a very early date.
      3. It stretches credulity on many levels to think that China has achieved this level of clout.
    3. Is this response something that was decided on in some "smoke-filled-back-room" where world leaders decided this would be a great way to address overpopulation and pop a precarious economic bubble at the same time?
      1. There's a whole bunch of chatter online about "Event 201" and "Agenda 21" and so forth. I haven't made this a subject of much investigation because I don't like to get sucked into discussions like that, plus I don't know how much insight I would get from it.
      2. If some "smoke-filled-back-room" decision is playing into the response we're seeing, it's not like it will be easy to find out. Someone would have to snitch. Short of some kind of Watergate-style investigative reporting, regular people like me probably won't ever know this one. So I've decided not to pursue it because what's the point.
      3. But if it is the case, I would find it to be justifiably infuriating.
    4. Do world leaders have access to data models that no one else is seeing, which indicate that their actions should be just what we've seen them do?
      1. I doubt that a model like this could survive being leaked.
      2. It's hard to conceive of a model with ANY merit that would suggest actions like "withhold tests from most people, delay acting until it's too late, put health care workers in danger of their lives by failing to prepare adequate equipment for them, and spend a long time telling the public the exact opposite of the truth."
    5. So is this just what naturally happens when you have too many politicians who are liars and narcissists and people who won't take responsibility?

Just one illustration of the way that this nonsensical response has played out: The way that doctors and nurses are being treated by health care administrators (so it's not just politicians).


Quotes from this article:
Attending Physician, WA: "I was in the middle of doing an exam on a patient when an administrator from my hospital interrupted the visit to speak to me. He asked if the patient was at high risk for COVID infection. When I explained that he was not, he told me to immediately take off my mask. When I refused, he ripped it off my face, stating: 'You are giving patients the impression that COVID is far worse than it is.'"

Physician Assistant, VT: “I work in a community hospital. I was wearing an N-95 mask I brought from home since our hospital was out of stock. A hospital administrator told me I could not wear one because unless I had enough with me to give to everyone, no one could wear them. He put a written complaint in my file when my response was, ‘I have heard of share-day in preschool— but must have missed the It's share-day in the ER memo.'"

Attending Physician, NY: “I was just placed on administrative leave indefinitely because I sent an email to the entire administrative team of the health system where I work, questioning (firmly) why they had yet to create an operationalized system that hospital staff and physicians could follow so positive COVID patients in our hospital could be separated from those who did not have it."

Medical Assistant, CA: “After a Zoom meeting where we were told we no longer needed to wear PPE if we were not within two feet of an ill patient, I asked the director of health services in our healthcare system running the meeting if exceptions could be made for those individuals who were immune-compromised like myself, since I had just returned to work after a short leave due to treatment for breast cancer. His response: 'Do you think having cancer makes you special? If you don’t agree with these recommendations then you can self-elect to use PTO and stay at home.'”

Critical Care Physician, AZ: "As a critical care physician, I asked our hospital administration what they expected me and my colleagues to do if we were faced with a situation where our need for ventilators exceeded what we had available. His response: 'Do the best you can.' I questioned this by requesting something more procedural and in writing that physicians could follow but was told, 'We don’t have time to put together a protocol for a situation that will likely never happen. However, if this time comes, we can discuss it then.' Apparently being proactive is outside the scope of healthcare administrators capabilities.”

Registered Nurse, CA: “Our administrators said they would be working from home and would not be coming into the hospital. I inquired as to why. They told us that their contributions to the work flows at this time were not as important as ours as healthcare employees, and they didn’t want to risk increasing the numbers of those infected. Another nurse sitting next to me in the same on-line meeting asked, ‘If you aren’t as important as those of us coming in to work every day amidst this COVID crisis then why do you get paid four times more than what physicians do?’ The administrator ended the meeting without responding.”

Attending Physician, WA: “The administrators called an emergency meeting to discuss PPE. As an Infectious Disease specialist, I requested to be in attendance. I was told this would not be necessary, however, I was assured that no formal decisions as they pertained to PPE would be made without administration first gathering my input. Not more than an hour after the meeting was due to start, a mass email was sent to the entire hospital system workforce of nearly 10,000 people stating that masks would be given out on a case-by-case basis determined only by those on the administrative team. In other words, it wouldn’t be those with a medical or nursing degree determining who needed a mask and who did not, but instead those with a business one. Smart.”

Central Supply Director, KY: “There are approximately 20,000 masks sitting in our central supply storage with an expiration date of January 2020. Despite this, I made a recommendation that we redistribute them to other hospitals in our system who needed them. The next day at work, all the masks were off the inventory list and I was later told by my boss that I should not ask questions about system recommendations that are outside of my pay grade.”

Medical Clinic Manager, CA: “In the healthcare system I belong to, we currently have two CEO’s each making nearly $10 million dollars a year. They run the largest healthcare corporation in the nation, yet when I asked in January if we could be proactive about COVID, I was told by hospital administration that funds were tight and we wouldn’t be able to order excess PPE in preparation. As I was walking away from the administrator he said, ‘Take my advice, if you have stocks, start selling them.’ I didn’t understand what he meant by this until now. They knew this was coming yet did nothing to prepare.”

Attending Physician, PA: “I and my other surgeon colleagues each received a phone call from our hospital CEO that despite recommendations from the Surgeon General, under no circumstances were we to take it upon ourselves to reschedule elective surgeries. If we did, we would risk losing our jobs.”

Attending Physician, TX: “I overheard the CFO from our hospital system tell our hospital president that they were allocating insurance reimbursement money as a potential bonus opportunity to hospital administrators who were able to stay on budget without costing them more amid this COVID (and I quote) 'shit-show.'”

Attending Physician, SC: “I recently came down with a low-grade fever and chills. I emailed my clinic manager suggesting I be tested for COVID. I was told not to test due to the need for me in the clinic and to wait until I was showing signs of shortness of breath. I didn’t realize that the administrators running the show had in their spare time, obtained a degree to practice medicine.”

=============

I'm sure books will eventually be written that uncover some of these missing puzzle pieces. For now, though, I'm just scratching my head.
I think the graduated response every country seems to follow is on purpose. The plan is to flatten the curve not zero it out. If everyone would have gone on immediate lock down and no new folks came in contact with the virus and the numbers leveled off and began to drop after 2 weeks what would happen?
They would drop or relax the restrictions and the numbers would just spiral out of control and we would gain nothing but a couple weeks for our quarantine.
This is probably something they all learned at pandemic camp.
 

Madame Peccato

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Italy crossed the 10.000 deaths yesterday, and the virus is spreading in nursing homes now.

It has been killing roughly around 600-700 people daily (consider that on average around 1.600-1.700 people die in Italy every day) for the past 10 days, and we've been on lockdown for a while.
 

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Found a video of how India is enforcing its lockdown.

Looks like they've got a new strategy now:

 

Ernman

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Yesterday an Amber Alert was sent out in NE Florida advising anyone over 65 to remain indoors. This was very odd, as if some wave of flu virus was about to pass over the city. Making it even more odd, other than no "in" dining, large crowds and social events, we are not under some of the strict isolation measures (shut down) that many cities and counties are under. My 77 year old neighbor was confused as all get out.
 

MTF

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What if some of those 20 people need to resort to crime just to put some food on the table?

I hate to be right about this...


Some concerning stories (the parts in bold by me):

Police descend on a supermarket after reports people have stolen food to feed themselves, as patience turns to desperation.

Another video has been shared around the country showing a father with his young daughter addressing the Italian prime minister, saying: "It's already 15-20 days that we've been inside and we're at our limit."

He gestures to his little girl who is eating a piece of bread and says: "Like my daughter, other children in a few days won't be able to eat this bit of bread. Rest assured, you will regret this because we're going to have a revolution."

Images have also emerged of police descending on supermarkets in Palermo in Sicily after reports people have started stealing to feed themselves. And groups have been set up in the last few days on social media to organise raids of supermarkets.

"Discomfort and malaise are growing and we are recording worrying reports of protest and anger that is being exploited by criminals who want to destabilise the system," said Leoluca Orlando.

"The more time passes, the more resources are exhausted. The few savings people have are running out. This tells us socio-economic issues will erupt."

Granted, at the moment it seems this is mostly limited to Italy, and particularly Southern Italy where organized crime is pretty much a part of society.

But still, civil unrest is eventually expected if you're taking away so many freedoms (and coupling it with a never-ending barrage of bad news, no hope, panic, fear, etc.).

A couple of weeks might be manageable, but after that people will get so tired of the restrictions that the situations cited above will become more and more common around the world.
 

EVMaso

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Looks like they've got a new strategy now:


I guess that's better than physical beatings?
 

Jon L

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In other "news"...

 
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1milclub

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Light at the end ... ?

NY Doctor Successfully Treats Patients: Zero Deaths, Zero Hospitalizations, Zero Intubations

He sent the letter to the president and the medical community around the world.
--------
Excerpt:
"My out-patient treatment regimen is as follows:

Hydroxychloroquine 200mg twice a day for 5 days
Azithromycin 500mg once a day for 5 days
Zinc sulfate 220mg once a day for 5 days

The rationale for my treatment plan is as follows. I combined the data available from China and South Korea with the recent study published from France (sites available on request). We know that hydroxychloroquine helps Zinc enter the cell. We know that Zinc slows viral replication within the cell. Regarding the use of azithromycin, I postulate it prevents secondary bacterial infections. These three drugs are well known and usually well tolerated, hence the risk to the patient is low.

Since last Thursday, my team has treated approximately 350 patients in Kiryas Joel and another 150 patients in other areas of New York with the above regimen.

Of this group and the information provided to me by affiliated medical teams, we have had ZERO deaths, ZERO hospitalizations, and ZERO intubations. In addition, I have not heard of any negative side effects other than approximately 10% of patients with temporary nausea and diarrhea.

In sum, my urgent recommendation is to initiate treatment in the outpatient setting as soon as possible in accordance with the above. Based on my direct experience, it prevents acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), prevents the need for hospitalization and saves lives.

With much respect,

Dr. Zev Zelenko

Board Certified Family Practitioner

cc: President Donald J. Trump; Mr. Mark Meadows, Chief of Staff"
 
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