The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[Ubu_roi]

And what happens if the quarantine period ends and the cases are still too high or growing?

Its end will most probably be postponed to a later date.

 

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[GIlman]

Is the death rate really comparable to the flu for younger populations? I've never posted here before, but I've been following along on this thread. I'm terrified because I'm in my 30s, somewhat immunocompromised, and I'm currently 29 weeks pregnant. I need to go to the hospital in May for a c-section, and it would be dangerous for me to try to have a natural birth (and would almost certainly fail). I'm most terrified of contracting this in the hospital, not to mention my concerns for my newborn baby.

On top of that, my 5-year-old has asthma that is exacerbated by respiratory sicknesses. She has been hospitalized three times in the past year because of bronchiolitis that started with common colds. I'm scared for what this could do to her, given that she needed oxygen support and steroid injections just for simple infections.

Disclaimer: none of the following is intended as medical advice for any particular patient or as a recommendation for treatment or diagnosis. I am not your physician and anything contained here is not intended as individualized medical advice or should it be construed to be advice for any one person or medical condition in particular. Consult your physician or seek other medical advice from qualified medical providers who know and have access to your or your families complete medical records and history. Never rely on information on the internet to make medical decisions, including this. All medical decisions must be made between you and your doctor, and I am not your doctor.

When my son was younger, he had reactive airway disease. He spent several bouts in the hospital getting treatments. If he was young and still had reactive airway disease/asthma, I would be looking to get and stock up on at home nebulizer treatments, and get extra MDI’s that he used. I might have even tried to get some extra of the oral steroids he took so I was as prepared with the things he typically needed when he had problems.

As much as possible I would have tried to manage what I could at home giving him aggressive treatments, but I realize that there are times he needed oxygen and support he could only get at the hospital. My first line of defense for my son would have been to make sure I had the supplies and resources at home to try and control his attacks if at all possible, but accept that if I couldn’t I would have had to take him in.

Right now we do not have a great picture of a breakdown by age, the limited data we have shows the death rate for 10-40 of 0.2%, 40-49 of 0.4%, and under 10 as 0%. This data thus far is derived from China, and there are reasons this is probably high. But, we have to wait for more reliable data to accumulate before we can make any better analysis.

Extrapolating from other data, it seems likely that the rates are 2-4x lower so 0.05% roughly. This is in the neighborhood of 0.1% risk from most typical flus but for the entire population. Obviously extremely few young people die of flu, so almost all of flu’s 0.1% mortality is people >60.

hopefully in about 4-6 weeks we will have some better days out of South Korea, since they are testing very widely. Then we will have a more accurate picture of risk.

No one knows or can predict with any certainty what is going to happen or what the true numbers will be, we just have hints and trends from other counties.

South Korea it appears this is about 10x worse than the flu, but there are many people sick and until they recover its impossible to say. Italy is confusing because their perceived death rate is so much higher compared to South Korea.

A couple possibilities, the population of old people is much greater in Italy, someone said this, I don’t know if this is true or not. Or the more likely thing I feel is that the prevalence of infection is about 8-10x greater than documented due to low levels of testing. Which would bring their numbers in line with SK.

From all the data thus far it appears the risk of death to anyone less than 50 is significant, but low. Significant because it appears to be around 1/1000, which compared to flu is much higher for this population, but low in number.

My big concern is reports I’m hearing that the virus my be able to cause damage to liver, kidneys, and heart. So although the death rate in young people appears to be significant but low, the risk of long term health issues is unknown but may be significant.

At the end of the day, there are times and reasons we have to go to the hospital. I Work in a hospital, my partner works in a hospital. I am trying to work at home some, but for us being around hospitals is pretty much a requirement. As a patient I plan to keep my kids and us out of the hospital as much as possible, and manage as much as we can on our own. But there are reasons and times we might have to go in, if we do there is some risk to us.

One last thing I want to touch on, because it is true but misleading to people. The CDC is saying masks are not effective, but yet you see medical professionals using them. The truth is masks are not effective ALONE. When we go to see an infected patient we put on shoe covers, paper disposable gowns, gloves, hat, mask, and a face shield. When we leave the room we strip all of it off and throw it away. The reason masks are not really effective in the general population is if you are around a contagion it gets all over your hands and chlothes. You get to where you are going, take off your mask, but the rest of your body can now easily spread it to your face when touching or eating.

If wearing a mask you might be able to duplicate what they do in the hospital somewhat by wearing long sleeve shirt, gloves, and sweatpants. When you get home leave shoes, gloves, sweatpants, and longsleeve shirt outside in the sun. UV typically kills most virus and bacteria. then was your hands immediately once inside from your fingertips to your elbows. its not perfect but possibly the closest we can come to personal protection equipment at home If so desired.

 

[Antifragile]

Reading this thread from the start gives a very interesting perspective on where we are today.

Once we share an opinion, we attach ourselves to it and some people remain entrenched that this is no big deal. No matter how much evidence you provide them to the contrary their belief is cemented.

My issue and worry is with posts like this:

Is the death rate really comparable to the flu for younger populations? I've never posted here before, but I've been following along on this thread. I'm terrified because I'm in my 30s, somewhat immunocompromised, and I'm currently 29 weeks pregnant. I need to go to the hospital in May for a c-section, and it would be dangerous for me to try to have a natural birth (and would almost certainly fail). I'm most terrified of contracting this in the hospital, not to mention my concerns for my newborn baby.

On top of that, my 5-year-old has asthma that is exacerbated by respiratory sicknesses. She has been hospitalized three times in the past year because of bronchiolitis that started with common colds. I'm scared for what this could do to her, given that she needed oxygen support and steroid injections just for simple infections.

Those people who don't take this threat seriously, will continue to interact and potentially continue spreading the virus to others over and over again. Pregnant and immunocompromised friends and family members are at high risk! What are they supposed to do? It hurts to read the post above and think of the fears.

And the biggest problem is simple: humans think in linear progression. We are incapable of imagining exponential (hockey stick curve) results.

 

[BizyDad]

THANK YOU EVERYONE.

Sincerely, so many of you have spent serious time this thread typing out pages of in-depth pages of thoughts and positions and theories and advice.

It is a really amazing to behold. I have learned so much more than I possibly could have accumulated on my own .

And I for one just want to take a moment and thank you for caring enough about this community and your fellow man to be this invested in this thread (and forum).

 

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[LightningHelix]

David N. Fisman, an MD at University of Toronto Dalla Lana School of Public Health made a mathematical model of the potential spread of C0VlD-19 within Canada. His Model proposed that 35%-70% of canadians will be infected with C0VlD-19

Credentials

National Post Article

Sounds a bit extreme, I hope its wrong...

 

[Ernman]

Is the death rate really comparable to the flu for younger populations? I've never posted here before, but I've been following along on this thread. I'm terrified because I'm in my 30s, somewhat immunocompromised, and I'm currently 29 weeks pregnant. I need to go to the hospital in May for a c-section, and it would be dangerous for me to try to have a natural birth (and would almost certainly fail). I'm most terrified of contracting this in the hospital, not to mention my concerns for my newborn baby.

On top of that, my 5-year-old has asthma that is exacerbated by respiratory sicknesses. She has been hospitalized three times in the past year because of bronchiolitis that started with common colds. I'm scared for what this could do to her, given that she needed oxygen support and steroid injections just for simple infections.

You have every legitimate reason to be concerned. You're among that group that needs to be more careful, take extra precautions, etc. I'm sure you're already communicating with your doctor, which is the wisest thing you can do. You also need to be careful that you don't worry yourself into a bad emotional state - that's not healthy either.

I am honestly sympathetic to your situation. Thanks to cancer and war time exposure to some unidentified contaminants, my wife's liver, kidneys and a few other body parts aren't at 100%. We are taking what we believe are appropriate measures in an orderly planned fashion. For instance, we've stocked up on the things we can to reduce time spent at grocery stores and be prepared should an out break in our area force us to close ranks. We've increased our cleaning and handwashing. And we avoid peak hours of activities. No vacations or travel planned any time soon, so that's all good. We're also consciously being more alert to who and what's going on around us - not a bad practice under any circumstance.

 

[Sander]

The Danish national health department's math looks something like this:

They predict around 10% of the Danish population will get infected. That's around 600,000 people.

Of those, 10% will need medical treatment. 60,000 people.

Of those, 1 out of 5 will need ICU. 12,000 people.

Over a three month period.

 

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[Inimitable]

Disclaimer: none of the following is intended as medical advice for any particular patient or as a recommendation for treatment or diagnosis. I am not your physician and anything contained here is not intended as individualized medical advice or should it be construed to be advice for any one person or medical condition in particular. Consult your physician or seek other medical advice from qualified medical providers who know and have access to your or your families complete medical records and history. Never rely on information on the internet to make medical decisions, including this. All medical decisions must be made between you and your doctor, and I am not your doctor.

When my son was younger, he had reactive airway disease. He spent several bouts in the hospital getting treatments. If he was young and still had reactive airway disease/asthma, I would be looking to get and stock up on at home nebulizer treatments, and get extra MDI’s that he used. I might have even tried to get some extra of the oral steroids he took so I was as prepared with the things he typically needed when he had problems.

As much as possible I would have tried to manage what I could at home giving him aggressive treatments, but I realize that there are times he needed oxygen and support he could only get at the hospital. My first line of defense for my son would have been to make sure I had the supplies and resources at home to try and control his attacks if at all possible, but accept that if I couldn’t I would have had to take him in.

Right now we do not have a great picture of a breakdown by age, the limited data we have shows the death rate for 10-40 of 0.2%, 40-49 of 0.4%, and under 10 as 0%. This data thus far is derived from China, and there are reasons this is probably high. But, we have to wait for more reliable data to accumulate before we can make any better analysis.

Extrapolating from other data, it seems likely that the rates are 2-4x lower so 0.05% roughly. This is in the neighborhood of 0.1% risk from most typical flus but for the entire population. Obviously extremely few young people die of flu, so almost all of flu’s 0.1% mortality is people >60.

hopefully in about 4-6 weeks we will have some better days out of South Korea, since they are testing very widely. Then we will have a more accurate picture of risk.

No one knows or can predict with any certainty what is going to happen or what the true numbers will be, we just have hints and trends from other counties.

South Korea it appears this is about 10x worse than the flu, but there are many people sick and until they recover its impossible to say. Italy is confusing because their perceived death rate is so much higher compared to South Korea.

A couple possibilities, the population of old people is much greater in Italy, someone said this, I don’t know if this is true or not. Or the more likely thing I feel is that the prevalence of infection is about 8-10x greater than documented due to low levels of testing. Which would bring their numbers in line with SK.

From all the data thus far it appears the risk of death to anyone less than 50 is significant, but low. Significant because it appears to be around 1/1000, which compared to flu is much higher for this population, but low in number.

My big concern is reports I’m hearing that the virus my be able to cause damage to liver, kidneys, and heart. So although the death rate in young people appears to be significant but low, the risk of long term health issues is unknown but may be significant.

At the end of the day, there are times and reasons we have to go to the hospital. I Work in a hospital, my partner works in a hospital. I am trying to work at home some, but for us being around hospitals is pretty much a requirement. As a patient I plan to keep my kids and us out of the hospital as much as possible, and manage as much as we can on our own. But there are reasons and times we might have to go in, if we do there is some risk to us.

One last thing I want to touch on, because it is true but misleading to people. The CDC is saying masks are not effective, but yet you see medical professionals using them. The truth is masks are not effective ALONE. When we go to see an infected patient we put on shoe covers, paper disposable gowns, gloves, hat, mask, and a face shield. When we leave the room we strip all of it off and throw it away. The reason masks are not really effective in the general population is if you are around a contagion it gets all over your hands and chlothes. You get to where you are going, take off your mask, but the rest of your body can now easily spread it to your face when touching or eating.

If wearing a mask you might be able to duplicate what they do in the hospital somewhat by wearing long sleeve shirt, gloves, and sweatpants. When you get home leave shoes, gloves, sweatpants, and longsleeve shirt outside in the sun. UV typically kills most virus and bacteria. then was your hands immediately once inside from your fingertips to your elbows. its not perfect but possibly the closest we can come to personal protection equipment at home If so desired.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write out this detailed reply! This definitely helps to calm my fears a bit.

I've already filled my daughter's prescriptions so we have extra medication on hand, and we've stocked up on food and supplies.

Also, thank you for providing details about the statistics we have so far. Yours is the most detailed explanation I've seen, and it takes my anxiety down a notch.

 

[Bekit]

Is the death rate really comparable to the flu for younger populations? I've never posted here before, but I've been following along on this thread. I'm terrified because I'm in my 30s, somewhat immunocompromised, and I'm currently 29 weeks pregnant. I need to go to the hospital in May for a c-section, and it would be dangerous for me to try to have a natural birth (and would almost certainly fail). I'm most terrified of contracting this in the hospital, not to mention my concerns for my newborn baby.

On top of that, my 5-year-old has asthma that is exacerbated by respiratory sicknesses. She has been hospitalized three times in the past year because of bronchiolitis that started with common colds. I'm scared for what this could do to her, given that she needed oxygen support and steroid injections just for simple infections.

:hug: I'm sorry to hear you're in that situation. That's a really challenging place to be in.

You might want to review the following video for a data-based look at your risks.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4JtEbrCX4c


This video is related (but it talks about pregnancy complications during SARS and MERS, which are other coronaviruses, but not the same as this one)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPDMW6X5UfE


If I was in your shoes, one of the things I would be concerned about is whether the doctors would have the pharmaceuticals on hand that I would need. Most medications are made in China. Health care workers are concerned about global shortages. Some meds are already unavailable. By May, we may be experiencing more shortages than we are now.

It might be worth asking your doctor if he can prescribe the meds you will need for your C-section, and fill the prescriptions now, and bring them with you in May. It's a long shot if they will cooperate with this, but you don't have anything to lose.

Once we share an opinion, we attach ourselves to it and some people remain entrenched that this is no big deal. No matter how much evidence you provide them to the contrary their belief is cemented.

Not always the case.

Consider my first post in this thread:

Here's my observation, as someone who does not consume mainstream media.

I sense that people have real fear about this, but I can't tell if that fear is justified or just something manufactured by skillful fearmongers.

The media has really heightened and honed their ability to breed real fear of diseases over the past few years.

Fear is naturally contagious, but there will always be those people who shrug it off and say, "Meh, whatever. It's not going to be as bad as they're trying to get you to think."

I'm one of those people. But it seems that we have gotten thinned out by the media's increasing ability to convince a huge number of people that it WILL be as bad or worse than we think.

I remember discussing Ebola a few years back with a co-worker who was genuinely terrified of Ebola. His attitude was the same as the one in this thread title: "Is Ebola going to kill us all?" I realized then, "Wow, people actually believe this!" This guy was not unstable or just a wuss. He was a manly dude, earning very high wages, well liked, extremely good looking, and overall someone who was enjoying life and fun to be around.

I remember SARS being a thing. I went to China in January of 2004, and lots of people were still wearing masks. I've noticed periodically the contrast between how EVERYONE in China seemed to be adopting mask wearing as a normal thing, and how very few people here do so. It seems to me that China has been MORE successful at breeding that fear population-wide, but we are catching up.

I think this fear becomes easier and easier to breed because every successive event taps into the fear that was already aroused in the last round and just layers on top of it. So for instance, all the fear that built up in my coworker who was afraid of Ebola will probably revive in full force, and now coronavirus will just build on that.

Is it possible to experience a worldwide pandemic? Yeah.

Is it likely that this is it? I don't think so.

Will it affect some people? Yes. Will it be heartbreaking for them? Yes.

But car accidents affect people every day, and we're not terrified to drive our cars. In fact, we tend to think, "It won't happen to me."

Car accidents cause about 40,000 deaths per year in the US [source]. Worldwide, there are an estimated 1.24 million car accident deaths per year [source].

I can see us freaking out and feeling like "it might affect me" if the numbers approach car accident numbers.

I can see us progressing to think, "it might kill us all" if the numbers rise to double or triple that.

Until the death toll for this comes closer to car accident numbers, though, I think it's all just a bunch of hype and manipulation.

Then when @ChickenHawk posted this and I saw the video, I started to change my mind.

You know how all those disaster movies open? With panic in a non-Western country? And the movie's main character glances at the TV in passing and says, "Man, look at that. How odd..."

What happens after that? The disaster hits home for the main character. And this is when those of us in the audience smugly say, "Hey, that main character should've realized something was up."

The scenes in this video are not from a movie.

(Edited because I tried to imbed the video and failed miserably.)

You make some good points. That is one crazy video.

Now, I am taking this VERY seriously. Here's a sample of my current thinking.

The Cockroach Fable*

My mother in law mentioned casually the other day that she saw a cockroach run across her kitchen floor.

"I hate cockroaches. But it was just one."

Then I found out that she had called in an exterminator, not just to spray around the perimeter, but to tent her entire house.

I thought, "That's a little weird. Seems like an overreaction."

My mother-in-law justified it by saying that she had seen more cockroaches. She upped the cockroach count to 5.

Then I learned that a day or two later, all the other neighbors on her street also had to have an exterminator tent their houses.

But my mother-in-law insisted that no more than 10 cockroaches had been seen in the entire neighborhood.

By the next week, 7 city blocks of houses were all hiring exterminators and tenting their houses. Photos were being leaked on social media (and then quickly deleted) of swarms and swarms of an unknown, bedbug-like vermin, and lots of people itching a very nasty rash.

I thought, "That's kind of creepy. This is some kind of super insect that's spreading like crazy."

But my mother-in-law (and all the official channels) were all adamant that the fuss was over less than 100 cockroaches total. "Nothing to see here, folks! Move along!"

Moral of the story: Watch what China DOES, not what they SAY.

Right now, there's a massive mismatch. We don't do this for the flu.



*This is only a fable. There are no actual neighborhoods tenting houses. I do not even have a mother-in-law. This is only a creative story written to illustrate a point.

 

[Ernman]

My big concern is reports I’m hearing that the virus my be able to cause damage to liver, kidneys, and heart. So although the death rate in young people appears to be significant but low, the risk of long term health issues is unknown but may be significant.

I read a couple articles on this today as well. One of the articles discussed the increased risk to those with underlying conditions such as heart disease, diabetes, hypertension and immuno-comprised conditions...which kind of sounds like a lot of the U.S. population. C0VlD-19 is really hard on our lungs so it makes sense that would place anyone with pre-existing lung or heart challenges at greater risk.

 

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[Inimitable]

You have every legitimate reason to be concerned. You're among that group that needs to be more careful, take extra precautions, etc. I'm sure you're already communicating with your doctor, which is the wisest thing you can do. You also need to be careful that you don't worry yourself into a bad emotional state - that's not healthy either.

I am honestly sympathetic to your situation. Thanks to cancer and war time exposure to some unidentified contaminants, my wife's liver, kidneys and a few other body parts aren't at 100%. We are taking what we believe are appropriate measures in an orderly planned fashion. For instance, we've stocked up on the things we can to reduce time spent at grocery stores and be prepared should an out break in our area force us to close ranks. We've increased our cleaning and handwashing. And we avoid peak hours of activities. No vacations or travel planned any time soon, so that's all good. We're also consciously being more alert to who and what's going on around us - not a bad practice under any circumstance.

I have an OB appointment tomorrow, so I will be discussing my concerns with them. I really don't expect them to have many answers, and I think they'll most likely try to downplay my worry. This is definitely the most stressful part for me, because I can't control it and I'll be going right to the most infectious area possible. The crazy thing is that I tried to plan this pregnancy so that my daughter would be out of school and less likely to bring sicknesses home to the baby. No one could have ever predicted this, though!

We've also been taking the precautions you're talking about, and I feel confident in our food and supplies. I'm debating taking my daughter out of school, but it's hard to know when to draw that line and make that decision.

 

[Ernman]

It might be worth asking your doctor if he can prescribe the meds you will need for your C-section, and fill the prescriptions now, and bring them with you in May. It's a long shot if they will cooperate with this, but you don't have anything to lose.

What a smart idea.

 

[ChrisV]

As much as I don't want to talk about freelancing right now, I can't help but think about how this might change the landscape of online work/business. Many will probably realize the need for the ability to make money from home and businesses will be forced into a trial work-from-home test run (potentially realizing how much money they save on things like electricity, water etc. and also potential productivity improvements).

This post might be historical. We might be looking at this post a couple year in the future like "holy shit." It's honestly baffled me how many companies are wasting time, energy, gas to have employees drive to essentially the same computer they have at home.

 

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[Inimitable]

:hug: I'm sorry to hear you're in that situation. That's a really challenging place to be in.

You might want to review the following video for a data-based look at your risks.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4JtEbrCX4c


This video is related (but it talks about pregnancy complications during SARS and MERS, which are other coronaviruses, but not the same as this one)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPDMW6X5UfE


If I was in your shoes, one of the things I would be concerned about is whether the doctors would have the pharmaceuticals on hand that I would need. Most medications are made in China. Health care workers are concerned about global shortages. Some meds are already unavailable. By May, we may be experiencing more shortages than we are now.

It might be worth asking your doctor if he can prescribe the meds you will need for your C-section, and fill the prescriptions now, and bring them with you in May. It's a long shot if they will cooperate with this, but you don't have anything to lose.

Thank you for the videos! One of the scariest things about this virus is the unknown, but the limited case studies at least seem positive. I can ask about the medication shortages, but given that there are so many drug-seeking patients, I'm not sure they will comply. I actually still have some of the pain medications left from my first c-section, so worst-case-scenario, I would at least have a little bit on hand. Who knows about all the other needed supplies, though.

 

[Ernman]

I have an OB appointment tomorrow, so I will be discussing my concerns with them. I really don't expect them to have many answers, and I think they'll most likely try to downplay my worry. This is definitely the most stressful part for me, because I can't control it and I'll be going right to the most infectious area possible. The crazy thing is that I tried to plan this pregnancy so that my daughter would be out of school and less likely to bring sicknesses home to the baby. No one could have ever predicted this, though!

We've also been taking the precautions you're talking about, and I feel confident in our food and supplies. I'm debating taking my daughter out of school, but it's hard to know when to draw that line and make that decision.

A BIG hug for you. Being a parent is stressful enough these days without something like C0VlD-19 in the mix. Hang in there. If you're comfortable with it, please share with us what your doctor tells you.

 

[biophase]

If people just wash their hands, cough into elbow, and live as normal according to the cdc, we will be fine.

I can't believe that you actually believe this.

The main problem is not about what you do. It's about what other people do. You can't avoid someone sneezing or coughing in your direction. Are you really ok, what that?

Someone coughs near you, no problem, just wash your hands. WTF?

The only way to 100% avoid that is to not be near other people.

 

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[biophase]

And we are getting crap like this from the House physician.

"The House physician was asked in the Democratic caucus about whether members should be concerned if they see a colleague who was supposed to be self-quarantining at the congressional gym. The doctor responded by describing to lawmakers a spectrum of contact and how concerning it should be, according to two members in the room.

Here are some activities that are not high risks, according to the physician:

• A quick greeting or selfie
• A short five-minute meeting with someone who isn't showing symptoms yet but tests positive"

How the f*ck can a short five-minute meeting be ok? A quick greeting?

This right here tells me that the government is definitely trying to downplay this. Can you imagine your normal doctor telling you that you could not contaminate someone if you meet with them if you have a cold or flu? Every doctor would tell you that you have a chance of getting them sick.

But the white house doctor is like, no big deal. Go out and talk to them.

I'd love to see a video of him talking to someone who tested positive!

 

[AllenCrawley]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZFhjMQrVts

 

[Rivoli]

South Korea’s coronavirus infection rate falls without citywide lockdowns

South Korea has reported a drop in the rate of new C0VlD-19 cases, attributing this to mass testing, better communication and the use of technology.

www.scmp.com

told you guys - nothingburger.

happening canceled

 

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[LightningHelix]

South Korea’s coronavirus infection rate falls without citywide lockdowns

South Korea has reported a drop in the rate of new C0VlD-19 cases, attributing this to mass testing, better communication and the use of technology.

www.scmp.com

told you guys - nothingburger.

happening canceled

It's a good thing you live in South Korea then....

 

[kgf]

And we are getting crap like this from the House physician.

"The House physician was asked in the Democratic caucus about whether members should be concerned if they see a colleague who was supposed to be self-quarantining at the congressional gym. The doctor responded by describing to lawmakers a spectrum of contact and how concerning it should be, according to two members in the room.

Here are some activities that are not high risks, according to the physician:

• A quick greeting or selfie
• A short five-minute meeting with someone who isn't showing symptoms yet but tests positive"

How the f*ck can a short five-minute meeting be ok? A quick greeting?

This right here tells me that the government is definitely trying to downplay this. Can you imagine your normal doctor telling you that you could not contaminate someone if you meet with them if you have a cold or flu? Every doctor would tell you that you have a chance of getting them sick.

But the white house doctor is like, no big deal. Go out and talk to them.

I'd love to see a video of him talking to someone who tested positive!

Here are some activities that are not high risks, according to the physician:

• A quick greeting or selfie
• A short five-minute meeting with someone who isn't showing symptoms yet but tests positive"

That is the best way to quickly go to the exponential phase of the contagion. They must avoid giving that sort of advices. By downplaying the problem they are making things worse.

 

[BellaPippin]

A lady friend of my wife once said, "they're quite blissful." Now what do you suppose she meant by that ?

It's like Poseidon kissing your butt crack and leaving it fresh and clean

 

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[Bearcorp]

Adelaide opens drive-through coronavirus clinic - InDaily

South Australia has recorded no new coronavirus cases, as it launches what the State Government calls the nation's first "drive-through" C0VlD-19 testing centre at an Adelaide hospital.

indaily.com.au

We have drive through testing in my home state.

 

[BellaPippin]

 

[BellaPippin]

Is the death rate really comparable to the flu for younger populations? I've never posted here before, but I've been following along on this thread. I'm terrified because I'm in my 30s, somewhat immunocompromised, and I'm currently 29 weeks pregnant. I need to go to the hospital in May for a c-section, and it would be dangerous for me to try to have a natural birth (and would almost certainly fail). I'm most terrified of contracting this in the hospital, not to mention my concerns for my newborn baby.

On top of that, my 5-year-old has asthma that is exacerbated by respiratory sicknesses. She has been hospitalized three times in the past year because of bronchiolitis that started with common colds. I'm scared for what this could do to her, given that she needed oxygen support and steroid injections just for simple infections.

Not a mom and blessed with a great immune system which is why I'm not worried about myself ...but if I were in your shoes I'd rather 1) Her missing the school she has to miss. It sounds she's really vulnerable, why take the risk. I'm sure you can find some sort of curriculum online and maybe keep up a little, if you feel well enough. Ofc I don't know your whole situation so it's just a suggestion. 2) Try your best within you means to make sure you go to a good hospital. And I say that as someone that went to a very bad one a few months ago having gastritis and they had me there for days and gave me antibiotics without having an infection to confirm I didn't have gallbladder stones, talk about being upset. A good hospital will immediately take all the precautions for you to be as safe as possible, as a pregnant woman and as a person with a vulnerable immune system. Cutting corners is just not worth it.

 

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[inputchip]

told you guys - nothingburger.

happening canceled

As MJ's quote goes, "would you rather be right or be rich"? Same principle applies here, "would you rather be right, or be severely ill (or worse) with the chance of harming your own family members and friends?"

The market doesn't care how badly you want to make money, just like the market doesn't care about your opinions of the virus. You might think the virus is nothing, but millions of others do.

South Korea has been extremely prudent in getting ahead of the virus compared to most countries. They were more prepared than anyone to face a virus of this magnitude. You have to compare apples to apples.

South Korea has ran 740x the amount of C0VlD-19 tests per capita compared to the US. You don't think this stat has anything to do with how "well" Korea is handling this?

 

[GIlman]

I have an OB appointment tomorrow, so I will be discussing my concerns with them. I really don't expect them to have many answers, and I think they'll most likely try to downplay my worry. This is definitely the most stressful part for me, because I can't control it and I'll be going right to the most infectious area possible. The crazy thing is that I tried to plan this pregnancy so that my daughter would be out of school and less likely to bring sicknesses home to the baby. No one could have ever predicted this, though!

We've also been taking the precautions you're talking about, and I feel confident in our food and supplies. I'm debating taking my daughter out of school, but it's hard to know when to draw that line and make that decision.

Thank you for the videos! One of the scariest things about this virus is the unknown, but the limited case studies at least seem positive. I can ask about the medication shortages, but given that there are so many drug-seeking patients, I'm not sure they will comply. I actually still have some of the pain medications left from my first c-section, so worst-case-scenario, I would at least have a little bit on hand. Who knows about all the other needed supplies, though.

Physicians are pretty good at knowing when people are drug seeking. It’s kinda like with your kids, they think they are being sneaky, but your pretty much onto most of them from the get go. You hear typical reasons and excuses, it’s actually comical most the time how obvious it is. Plus there are now databases they can look in and see what controlled substances you have received and from who.

 

[Walter Hay]

Is the death rate really comparable to the flu for younger populations? I've never posted here before, but I've been following along on this thread. I'm terrified because I'm in my 30s, somewhat immunocompromised, and I'm currently 29 weeks pregnant. I need to go to the hospital in May for a c-section, and it would be dangerous for me to try to have a natural birth (and would almost certainly fail). I'm most terrified of contracting this in the hospital, not to mention my concerns for my newborn baby.

On top of that, my 5-year-old has asthma that is exacerbated by respiratory sicknesses. She has been hospitalized three times in the past year because of bronchiolitis that started with common colds. I'm scared for what this could do to her, given that she needed oxygen support and steroid injections just for simple infections.

Thank you for presenting the issue from the perspective of someone who is at considerable risk, and you are not elderly. I empathize with you because I understand the every day trials of a person in your position.

You have emboldened me to present the perspective of someone very seriously at risk. I am 81 years of age, suffering from heart disease, and a respiratory illness known as Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD.) In my case COPD is comprised of 4 serious respiratory diseases.

Despite the outlook expressed by skeptics, and those who will deny its existence until they or a family member contract the illness, Covid19 is a real and present danger to me. I am not a disposable burden on society. I still contribute, leading an active life both mentally and physically. I continue public speaking as a member of my church. I still provide free counseling services to people in distress. I also enjoy providing a lot of help to members of this forum.

My whole life has been a struggle to survive, and being one of those strange people who self medicates on what people love to call Quack Remedies because they are not made by Big Pharma, I have killed off (proven by pathology) a multiple drug resistant bacterium that I picked up in hospital. The treatment I used is also fatal to viruses and will be my first line of defence should some person careless about their personal hygiene, or who doesn't cover their face when coughing or sneezing passes on a virus that they doubt exists.

Walter
P.S. I know from many past experiences that I will encounter strong resistance and ridicule from doctors and nurses. They act in much the same way as religious zealots.

 

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[GIlman]

And we are getting crap like this from the House physician.

"The House physician was asked in the Democratic caucus about whether members should be concerned if they see a colleague who was supposed to be self-quarantining at the congressional gym. The doctor responded by describing to lawmakers a spectrum of contact and how concerning it should be, according to two members in the room.

Here are some activities that are not high risks, according to the physician:

• A quick greeting or selfie
• A short five-minute meeting with someone who isn't showing symptoms yet but tests positive"

How the f*ck can a short five-minute meeting be ok? A quick greeting?

This right here tells me that the government is definitely trying to downplay this. Can you imagine your normal doctor telling you that you could not contaminate someone if you meet with them if you have a cold or flu? Every doctor would tell you that you have a chance of getting them sick.

But the white house doctor is like, no big deal. Go out and talk to them.

I'd love to see a video of him talking to someone who tested positive!

Not all physicians are smart and rational. Actually when I went to medical school it was somewhat depressing how many mediocre and downright stupid people were accepted in. Medical school admissions has become a very touchy feely game. There are lots of soft things that a whole bunch of weight is put on. Lots of political agendas being played out in the admission process. Sometimes weird things like the town you grew up in, because that town had funded 2 spots. Etc.

Working in the fields you definitely develop the who you trust and who you don’t filter really quickly.

 

[Antifragile]

As MJ's quote goes, "would you rather be right or be rich"? Same principle applies here, "would you rather be right, or be severely ill (or worse) with the chance of harming your own family members and friends?"

The market doesn't care how badly you want to make money, just like the market doesn't care about your opinions of the virus. You might think the virus is nothing, but millions of others do.

South Korea has been extremely prudent in getting ahead of the virus compared to most countries. They were more prepared than anyone to face a virus of this magnitude. You have to compare apples to apples.

South Korea has ran 740x the amount of C0VlD-19 tests per capita compared to the US. You don't think this stat has anything to do with how "well" Korea is handling this?

the issue I have with US today is the graph you posted! They don't know what they don't know and testing from what I understand is not always "free" as there are associated costs depending on coverage you have etc. Their government needs to start acting like this is a serious threat instead of focusing on "if they dock the cruise ship, the numbers in US will go up and it is not our fault" speeches.