The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

Thoelt53 · Mar 9, 2020

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnew...C0VlD-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312

“Kids and adults have done extremely well in terms of recovery so far,” said Dr. Jeremy Faust, an emergency medicine doctor at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston. “It’s so critical that we do not waste resources among the young and healthy and that we really focus on the areas where this might really get out of control.”

Dr. William Schaffner, professor of preventive medicine and infectious diseases at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, says our understanding of the disease is still developing and the statistics are preliminary.

“They’re all estimates," he said. "What are you counting as a case in your particular country? ... That case definition has varied a lot.”

“What I was able to find by looking at a few other data sources, rather than just the big flashy numbers, was that there’s actually a lot of reason to be reassured that the numbers are a lot lower,” said Faust.

“Because only the sickest people are showing up at hospitals, this group is likely over-represented among the full population of people who have C0VlD-19, according to Faust. Most C0VlD-19 cases are mild, and many individuals will never even see a health care provider to be tested.”

BellaPippin · Mar 9, 2020

If you watch something today, watch this

View attachment DelightfulUnhappyAracari-mobile.mp4

Vigilante · Mar 9, 2020

BellaPippin said:
Spat my coffee

The answer is no for all of the questions. Just like you could get a cold you could get anything else. It doesn't differ from using public transportation or being pretty much anywhere along with a group of people either. Unless you go sanitizing yourself like a freak and make sure you don't touch your face and nobody coughs near you, they can only mitigate the risk. I get sick just from being exposed to the dry air conditioner of the plane, everytime I visit homeland I get there with some kind of sore throat that lasts me a couple days. A couple years ago I decided to forego the flu shot (not 100% if it was that or not) but that year I got strep throat like 3 times in two months, compared to no flu pretty much never since I've been in middle school

I was sitting in church on Sunday in the usual row, with my wife and kid in tow. Along comes 90 year old Martha, who (despite the row being otherwise empty and the church being moderately full) decided it would be a good idea to sit on my wife's lap. It was impossible to notice her snorting, hacking, and phlegm flying. While everyone else was warming up with a lovely worship hymn, I was searching for the closest available exit and wishing I had a mask I could force-strap on her cheeks. Suddenly those 3M prices on eBay seemed more reasonable.

During song #2, I made the move. I motioned to my wife we were leaving, and she did a small silent protest before I took my kid in hand and headed towards the back of the sanctuary. My wife followed, and we sought solace in the back (empty) row. By that point, thoughts of worship had yielded to thoughts of self preservation.

Thank goodness they stream the services now, with (of course) the ability to give electronically.

Vigilante · Mar 9, 2020

BellaPippin said:
If you watch something today, watch this

View attachment 30921

Would be funny if it wasn't so not funny. Seriously?!?!? This is like an SNL skit.

BellaPippin · Mar 9, 2020

Vigilante said:
I was sitting in church on Sunday in the usual row, with my wife and kid in tow. Along comes 90 year old Martha, who (despite the row being otherwise empty and the church being moderately full) decided it would be a good idea to sit on my wife's lap. It was impossible to notice her snorting, hacking, and phlegm flying. While everyone else was warming up with a lovely worship hymn, I was searching for the closest available exit and wishing I had a mask I could force-strap on her cheeks.

During song #2, I made the move. I motioned to my wife we were leaving, and she did a small silent protest before I took my kid in hand and headed towards the back of the sanctuary. My wife followed, and we sought solace in the back (empty) row. By that point, thoughts of worship had yielded to thoughts of self preservation.

Thank goodness they stream the services now, with (of course) the ability to give electronically.

A homeless lady was asking for water on the train a few days ago. Not even money just water. I felt horrible because she was probably thirsty and there I was holding my full water bottle. I couldn't get myself to say yes. I wish she had had her own cup I would have poured her some, but I knew it was a health hazard (not for coronavirus ofc, but anything, flu, cold, etc). Didn't have anything to give the bottle a quick swipe or anthing. I still feel bad about it but do not want to get sick.

Ernman · Mar 9, 2020

Thoelt53 said:
Government is notoriously slow and inefficient. You could give the CDC, or any federal agency, an unlimited budget and they would figure out how to spend every last penny in the least efficient manner.

A common antigovernmental trope. Only trouble is, I've seen the same happen in industry. Wasting money, spending one's entire budget - needed or not - is not confined to the government.

Notice I said a properly funded CDC - not an unlimited budget. Most government employees take their responsibilities very seriously and overall try to do the right thing. Is there waste and inefficiency - absolutely. But there is also very good, often unseen and unappreciated, work going on all the time to our collective advantage.

It is an entirely appropriate investment of tax dollars to have agencies like the CDC who are paying attention to the what ifs and potential dangers. That frees industry to concentrate on filling the known needs. Unfortunately, when budgets get gutted, priorities get shifted and we - all of us - end up behind the power curve.

Ernman · Mar 9, 2020

Vigilante said:
Would be funny if it wasn't so not funny. Seriously?!?!? This is like an SNL skit.

See how dangerous our habits can be? Most of the time we aren't even aware of what we are doing that is unsafe/unhealthy.

Let's all go make fun of well meaning people who are trying to help us, but are still human and subject to the same failings as all of us - cause that's going to accomplish what?

Thoelt53 · Mar 9, 2020

Ernman said:
A common antigovernmental trope. Only trouble is, I've seen the same happen in industry. Wasting money, spending one's entire budget - needed or not - is not confined to the government.

Notice I said a properly funded CDC - not an unlimited budget. Most government employees take their responsibilities very seriously and overall try to do the right thing. Is there waste and inefficiency - absolutely. But there is also very good, often unseen and unappreciated, work going on all the time to our collective advantage.

It is an entirely appropriate investment of tax dollars to have agencies like the CDC who are paying attention to the what ifs and potential dangers. That frees industry to concentrate on filling the known needs. Unfortunately, when budgets get gutted, priorities get shifted and we - all of us - end up behind the power curve.

When a corporation behaves the same it eventually goes bankrupt.

Government doesn’t have that “problem.” It will just tax (steal), borrow and print money to kick the can down the road.

The only thing the government will do in this outbreak is lock you in your house while the private sector actually produces results.

For the record, being against an overreaching bureaucracy isn’t the same as being antigovernment.

Thoelt53 · Mar 9, 2020

Ernman said:
Let's all go make fun of well meaning people who are trying to help us, but are still human and subject to the same failings as all of us - cause that's going to accomplish what?

A laugh.

Ernman · Mar 9, 2020

Thoelt53 said:
When a corporation behaves the same it eventually goes bankrupt.

Government doesn’t have that “problem.” It will just tax (steal), borrow and print money to kick the can down the road.

The only thing the government will do in this outbreak is lock you in your house while the private sector actually produces results.

For the record, being against an overreaching bureaucracy isn’t the same as being antigovernment.

OMG, I'm LMAO. Here I am engaging in a back and forth -when clearly we're not going to change each other's mind - when I should be focused on my biz. Talk about wasting time! It was fun, but I have work to do.

Kak · Mar 9, 2020

Vigilante said:
7. Why did the United States government recommend against traveling on cruise ships, but NOT issue the same warning for air travel which is infected with the same inherent risks?

We can get real about the airlines... You are breathing in the exact same air as everyone else on the plane. That is why airplanes have a distinct smell to them. You are breathing a cocktail of fresh air mixed with a$$ gas, bad breath and body odor. They all use the same 3 toilets and eat off of uncleaned tray tables. I have had crumbs on mine more times than I can count.

I have carried disinfectant wipes in my briefcase for years. I scrub my area down on airplanes. Probably to no avail. I am NOT some big germaphobe either. Commercial flying is legitimately gross.

Air filteration... LOL.

Another reason to fly privately.

Kak · Mar 9, 2020

Ernman said:
OMG, I'm LMAO. Here I am engaging in a back and forth -when clearly we're not going to change each other's mind - when I should be focused on my biz. Talk about wasting time! It was fun, but I have work to do.

Your dismissive stance and smug attitude on our legitimate concerns and well thought out arguments is pretty telling.

Do you have anything of substance to add? Or are you just going to belittle us as mental midgets in comparison to your vast intellectual horsepower and act like you don't have time for intelligent discourse?

Please @Ernman enlighten us with your statist propaganda.

lowtek · Mar 9, 2020

The degree of normalcy bias among my friends and family is staggering.

We have 10s of millions of people on lockdown around the globe and an exponential curve in the number of detected cases. The #2 economy in the world is still operating at a crawl. No steps taken by the government in the States to even slow down the spread of the virus, indeed they are actually doing the opposite. What more evidence is needed that this is an impending disaster?

Yet, when I suggest they stock out their pantry I get met with "I'll go to the mountains" (this from someone in Ohio, and no you won't.), "I'm not a prepper" (as if being self sufficient and ready to take care of your family is a bad thing).

I think I'm done trying to warn people. They have access to the same information I do an they can make their own decisions. If the above facts don't motivate them to take action, there's nothing I can say.

biggeemac · Mar 9, 2020

lowtek said:
The degree of normalcy bias among my friends and family is staggering.

We have 10s of millions of people on lockdown around the globe and an exponential curve in the number of detected cases. The #2 economy in the world is still operating at a crawl. No steps taken by the government in the States to even slow down the spread of the virus, indeed they are actually doing the opposite. What more evidence is needed that this is an impending disaster?

Yet, when I suggest they stock out their pantry I get met with "I'll go to the mountains" (this from someone in Ohio, and no you won't.), "I'm not a prepper" (as if being self sufficient and ready to take care of your family is a bad thing).

I think I'm done trying to warn people. They have access to the same information I do an they can make their own decisions. If the above facts don't motivate them to take action, there's nothing I can say.

Yep, I spent about $3k stocking up. I'm switching to online only orders going forward because people were nasty BEFORE this epidemic, and they aren't stopping from what I am observing. I am already trying to practice social distancing and I am sanitizing the house daily going forward.

LightningHelix · Mar 9, 2020

nowap said:
Warnings of an Italian doctor...

‘Get ready’: Italian doctors warn Europe of coronavirus impact on hospitals

‘It will be tough’, British doctor admits after Italian experts warn one in 10 of those infected need intensive care

www.independent.co.uk

(the video is not the doctor. I cant find a video of his message with English subtitles).

He warns all countries in Europe to get ready for the virus.

- IC beds are overflowing
- Extra beds are overflowing
- 10% of patients need IC
- Age of severe cases are dropping - between 46 and 80 something.

He says what is going on in the hospitals is similar to a war, or an earthquake, etc.

They are looking to transfer patients to other parts of the country.

Soon, they must prioritize which patients get an IC unit... (those that have a chance of surviving and carry on having a life afterwards).

This is a first hand WARNING from a top doctor in Northern Italy working on the front lines..

Funny how Brexit might've actually helped UK stymie the virus a bit. Talk about good timing.

Here · Mar 9, 2020

lowtek said:
Yet, when I suggest they stock out their pantry I get met with "I'll go to the mountains" (this from someone in Ohio, and no you won't.),

There are plenty of mountains in Ohio. I'm not sure how that'll get them through the virus, but there are nice places to vacation over there.

BellaPippin · Mar 9, 2020

lowtek said:
"I'll go to the mountains"

That is my strategy, but for the zombie apocalypse.

Rivoli · Mar 9, 2020

lowtek said:
The degree of normalcy bias among my friends and family is staggering.

We have 10s of millions of people on lockdown around the globe and an exponential curve in the number of detected cases. The #2 economy in the world is still operating at a crawl. No steps taken by the government in the States to even slow down the spread of the virus, indeed they are actually doing the opposite. What more evidence is needed that this is an impending disaster?

Yet, when I suggest they stock out their pantry I get met with "I'll go to the mountains" (this from someone in Ohio, and no you won't.), "I'm not a prepper" (as if being self sufficient and ready to take care of your family is a bad thing).

I think I'm done trying to warn people. They have access to the same information I do an they can make their own decisions. If the above facts don't motivate them to take action, there's nothing I can say.

hows that exponential climb going on china?

Bekit · Mar 9, 2020

Here said:
There are plenty of mountains in Ohio.

Coloradan over here, squinting at this.

Campbell Hill (Ohio) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Campbell Hill is, at 1,550 feet (470 m), the highest point in elevation in the U.S. state of Ohio.

The highest point in Ohio looks ... uh... flat as a pancake.

Here · Mar 9, 2020

LOL my parents live an hour from the Ohio border and there are loads of mountains there. I assumed they extended into Ohio but clearly not. Ohioans can hop over into PA though, there's enough to go around.

Here · Mar 9, 2020

Someone's gonna tell me that my parents don't live anywhere near the Ohio border. I need a nap.

Here · Mar 9, 2020

I mean, I need a map

Bekit · Mar 9, 2020

Here said:
I mean, I need a map

:hug:
You're fine! I'm not trying to pick on you!

Here · Mar 9, 2020

Bekit said:
:hug:
You're fine! I'm not trying to pick on you!

I know I'm just losing my mind here (tmi warning) my 7 year old got pierced ears a few months ago, she keeps touching them and so they keep getting infected. Last night she pulled one of them out, I was too tired to put it back in. Today the hole was already closing so I disinfected a needle and tried to open it again. Went through the other side in the wrong place, she was screaming and it was just ... ugly. I probably should take a nap.

Ernman · Mar 9, 2020

Kak said:
Your dismissive stance and smug attitude on our legitimate concerns and well thought out arguments is pretty telling.

Do you have anything of substance to add? Or are you just going to belittle us as mental midgets in comparison to your vast intellectual horsepower and act like you don't have time for intelligent discourse?

Please @Ernman enlighten us with your statist propaganda.

An interesting and unexpected response to be sure. It was not my intention to be dismissive or smug. I was merely observing that @Thoelt53 and I have different positions, specifically on the impact of under funding the CDC and the balance between government and industry in a crisis, and continuing the back and forth wasn't going to get us anywhere. And yes, I did laugh at myself for going down that rabbit hole when I should have been working on other things.

Clearly this touched a nerve @Kak. I believe you misinterpreted and over reacted to my post.

Ernman · Mar 9, 2020

lowtek said:
I think I'm done trying to warn people. They have access to the same information I do an they can make their own decisions. If the above facts don't motivate them to take action, there's nothing I can say.

It's a hard place to be @lowtek. We deal with it all the time in FL when it comes to hurricanes. Unfortunately, with C0VlD-19 the impact is on a much larger scale.

LightningHelix · Mar 9, 2020

BellaPippin said:
That is my strategy, but for the zombie apocalypse.

Wait putting "the" before Zombie Apocalypse implies it will happen...

Do you know something we don't?? :wideyed:

MJ DeMarco · Mar 9, 2020

Well there are now two cases in my city. Last month, it was in my county.

Also, assuming this data is correct, it is encouraging. If the data isn't, well, disregard.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236995910141390848

View: https://twitter.com/RyanGirdusky/status/1236995910141390848

SkyLake · Mar 9, 2020

The entirety of Italy, 60+ million people, was just put on lockdown.

You can only go out to work or buy supplies. If you travel you get criminally prosecuted.

Serie A (soccer league) was suspended. The last time it happened was during WW2.

lowtek · Mar 9, 2020

MJ DeMarco said:
Well there are now two cases in my city. Last month, it was in my county.

Also, assuming this data is correct, it is encouraging. If the data isn't, well, disregard.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236995910141390848
View: https://twitter.com/RyanGirdusky/status/1236995910141390848

I believe that their data is correct, but unfortunately that isn't our fate. They have been aggressively testing since day 1. I believe they have conducted 140,000 tests already. They have been rather aggressively tracing contacts and notifying people of potential exposure via text message when cases are discovered in their area. They even have drive through testing, for crying out loud.

That could have been us, but we have a corrupt and incompetent government that chose to try to goose the stock market instead of protecting the public.

Our situation will be closer to Italy than S. Korea.

In the other thread I made some predictions around case #s. We're on track for 1 million known cases worldwide by the end of the month. From there it doesn't take long to get to 1 billion (of course we don't have that many test kits so the number will plateau at some point).

As far as our #s are concerned, our healthcare system is on track to be overwhelmed by the end of May, perhaps a bit sooner, perhaps a bit later. Summer may buy us some breathing room, but I'm not counting on it.

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The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

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