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HOT TOPIC The Worldwide Covid-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

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Dusty_19

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A vendor who visited my work last week just tested positive for COVID-19.

They’re telling employees “it’s ok, his contact was only between one or two people and it was isolated in an office. Don’t worry, we’re all fine here.”
 

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Dusty_19

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A vendor who visited my work last week just tested positive for COVID-19.

They’re telling employees “it’s ok, his contact was only between one or two people and it was isolated in an office. Don’t worry, we’re all fine here.”
Now they just announced this vendor who tested positive went to lunch with a CSR who has been here all week and frequently makes contact with all employees in the warehouse. He is currently sitting at his desk working as if nothing is wrong.

But they’re trying not to let everyone know as not to start a panic....

I can’t believe this is how a multi million dollar company is running their largest operation right now. Unreal.
 
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Suzanne Bazemore

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My wife gave birth 4 weeks ago.

We are super thankful that we gave birth before all of this started, but now we are at the point where we are questioning if we need to go in for all these appointments.

We had to bring the little one into the children's hospital to check his jaundice levels a couple of nights ago. They would only let one adult in the hospital and never gave any updates or indication of how long it would be. So the 18 month and me stayed in the car.

Hospital was nearly empty, online tools said it was a 30 min wait time. My wife and baby ended up being there for 6 (six!!!) hours. Kinda freaky. Signs everywhere about COVID. I am glad we were there so late so that it was not busy.

Now we have all these other routine checkups. We will probably skip half of them and only go to the important ones (vaccines) as we don't really want to hang out where all the sick people are. My wife does not have her licence, so the whole family goes to all of them. If possible now it is just me and the baby, or I drop my wife off with whoever needs to go in order to limit our time in clinics and hospitals.
Maybe you could ask the pediatrician about the possibility of immunizing later. If you are not going anywhere or taking the baby to any places, and the rest of you are vaccinated, then it seems like the greater danger would be to walk into a health facility.
 

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“It is obnoxious to presume that Americans must be FORCED to protect themselves.”
@Kak I'm curious why you feel this way. I'd like to believe we'd do the right thing, but what I'm experiencing from different groups of our society leads me to question this. I don't want to read the wrong thing into your statement, so would you please expand?
Thanks
 

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Prince Charles tested positive.

Wish him well.
Timmy, I'm sorry but this is going to sound more harsh than I intend... in this battle we are all equal. I'm wishing every infected person well, even the politicians.
 

Kak

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@Kak I'm curious why you feel this way. I'd like to believe we'd do the right thing, but what I'm experiencing from different groups of our society leads me to question this. I don't want to read the wrong thing into your statement, so would you please expand?
Thanks
Check out the article. Very thought provoking. I pretty much agree with the whole thing.

Basically what you are saying here is that you are ALREADY experiencing FORCE not working... Just like gun control, drug laws, and murder laws don't keep psychos from killing people and junkies from getting high. I am a laissez faire individual. I believe individuals can make the best decisions for themselves or live with the consequences.

Those of us that want to take this seriously are allowed to. Shouldn't be forced to.

Those of us that want to take calculated risk and enter society should be allowed to. <-ME

Those of us that want to be complete retards, take no precaution, and contract this should be allowed to.

The fact of the matter is that problems get solved faster while the economy is functioning. The ECONOMY solves problems, not government.

Printing trillions is a band aid. Not a solution.

Making people hide out in their homes is a band aid. Not a solution.

We currently have an argument going on in this country about whether the economy is worth a ton of deaths.... As if it is FACT that letting people work and take calculated risk is going to make more people die. It isn't fact and it isn't proven.

With the rate this thing spreads it is only a matter of time before everyone gets it. I would feel safer with the economy functioning well and companies and hospitals having a profit motive to cure people. Until then people will undoubtedly error more on the side of caution when they live in densely populated areas than they will in the exurbs where I live because the risk is higher.

Putting the economy on its knees and shooting it in the head does nothing to save lives and it will have significantly negative health effects later anyway when the private sector isn't allowed to solve problems.

I hope that answers your question...
 
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WillHurtDontCare

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I can’t believe this is how a multi million dollar company is running their largest operation right now. Unreal.
Everyone here who is nervous about competition or who worries whether they're qualified to run a business should take heed. This kind of shit is way to prevalent.
 

sparechange

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Dam italy is getting wiped out hard
 

Mike Partee

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Does anyone know of countries that are NOT locked down?

One of my buddies flew out to Singapore last week from PR. Said there's no lockdowns because everyone takes relative caution, but hospitals were prepared for this (because of the SARS outbreak in 2003) and they aggressively attack every case.

Sounds like a dream :(
 

GIlman

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Check out the article. Very thought provoking. I pretty much agree with the whole thing.

Basically what you are saying here is that you are ALREADY experiencing FORCE not working... Just like gun control, drug laws, and murder laws don't keep psychos from killing people and junkies from getting high. I am a laissez faire individual. I believe individuals can make the best decisions for themselves or live with the consequences.

Those of us that want to take this seriously are allowed to. Shouldn't be forced to.

Those of us that want to take calculated risk and enter society should be allowed to. <-ME

Those of us that want to be complete retards, take no precaution, and contract this should be allowed to.

The fact of the matter is that problems get solved faster while the economy is functioning. The ECONOMY solves problems, not government.

Printing trillions is a band aid. Not a solution.

Making people hide out in their homes is a band aid. Not a solution.

We currently have an argument going on in this country about whether the economy is worth a ton of deaths.... As if it is FACT that letting people work and take calculated risk is going to make more people die. It isn't fact and it isn't proven.

With the rate this thing spreads it is only a matter of time before everyone gets it. I would feel safer with the economy functioning well and companies and hospitals having a profit motive to cure people. Until then people will undoubtedly error more on the side of caution when they live in densely populated areas than they will in the ex-burbs where I live because the risk is higher.

Putting the economy on its knees and shooting it in the head does nothing to save lives and it will have significantly negative health effects later anyway when the private sector isn't allowed to solve problems.

I hope that answers your question...
I fully support your argument from all sides. so long as those who leave work are not propped up by the gov financially and those that get sick, have huge hospital bills, and permanent disability don’t come back asking for money because they can’t work. I believe in taking personal responsibility, but none of this “stimulus” or policies are aimed at that. So there is the rub, if governments fingers are all over society, then what one person does directly impacts another. It should have never gotten to this point, it has been the demise of many many many empires in the last.
 

Kak

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I fully support your argument from all sides. so long as those who leave work are not propped up by the gov financially and those that get sick, have huge hospital bills, and permanent disability don’t come back asking for money because they can’t work. I believe in taking personal responsibility, but none of this “stimulus” or policies are aimed at that. So there is the rub, if governments fingers are all over society, then what one person does directly impacts another. It should have never gotten to this point, it has been the demise of many many many empires in the last.
Yes! Agreed wholeheartedly.

We get so used to the damn half-measures that we assume that our own desires for policy (or lack there of) needs to consider the half-measures already in place.

The article walks it back to the beginning... Where a free society should have placed freedom over a perceived, yet unproven and unenforceable, safety measure. A free society where we would look to the best and brightest to come up with treatments and solutions.

I know there are people that want their hand held... Too bad if you ask me. There are so many measures in place to eliminate the need for people to take personal responsibility it isn't even funny. I guess when push comes to shove... Even the people that claim, and run for office on, a belief in the individual over the collective... Don't really believe what they preach.
 

r6203

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Does anyone know of countries that are NOT locked down?

One of my buddies flew out to Singapore last week from PR. Said there's no lockdowns because everyone takes relative caution, but hospitals were prepared for this (because of the SARS outbreak in 2003) and they aggressively attack every case.

Sounds like a dream :(
Depends on your definition of a lockdown. But the Netherlands are quite lax.
 

sparechange

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Yes! Agreed wholeheartedly.

We get so used to the damn half-measures that we assume that our own desires for policy (or lack there of) needs to consider the half-measures already in place.

The article walks it back to the beginning... Where a free society should have placed freedom over a perceived, yet unproven and unenforceable, safety measure. A free society where we would look to the best and brightest to come up with treatments and solutions.

I know there are people that want their hand held... Too bad if you ask me. There are so many measures in place to eliminate the need for people to take personal responsibility it isn't even funny. I guess when push comes to shove... Even the people that claim, and run for office on, a belief in the individual over the collective... Don't really believe what they preach.

What's more terrifying than this little flu is the fact that government is swooping in and controlling everything, Vancouver has bylaws to be 2 meters apart from people, failure to abide to these bylaws you can be slapped in the face with a fine of $1,000.

$50,000 if you are an employer not enforcing this bylaw, what does this mean for our freedom?

Recently a story in the local news showcased some entrepeneurs selling face masks, which then got shutdown by our Mayor for ''exploiting people for profit'' REALLY!!?!? Did someone put a gun to the customers head and force them to buy the product?

What's next? What is the agenda of government? Do they care about us? If so how about banning smoking? Shutting down fast food places (which are responsible for hundreds of thousaunds of deaths) Helping out the vets that think they fought for their country that are living in homeless shelters suffering PTSD after watching someone getting blown up?

Uh oh, I see black helicopters in the sky. I gotta go..
 

GPM

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Maybe you could ask the pediatrician about the possibility of immunizing later. If you are not going anywhere or taking the baby to any places, and the rest of you are vaccinated, then it seems like the greater danger would be to walk into a health facility.
Already asked in regards to our first baby. I guess these are very time sensitive and so need to meet a specific schedule.
 

EVMaso

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Recently a story in the local news showcased some entrepeneurs selling face masks, which then got shutdown by our Mayor for ''exploiting people for profit'' REALLY!!?!? Did someone put a gun to the customers head and force them to buy the product?
I made a post in another thread about the selling "life or death" items.


Basically, there's something repulsive about profiting off of something that puts the fear of life or death into someone. It's not 100% black and white for everything, but facemasks definitely fall into this category.

Edit: I assume you mean these schmucks: Coronavirus: Family fined after selling medical masks in Port Coquitlam at steep prices
 

Ernman

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Check out the article. Very thought provoking. I pretty much agree with the whole thing.

Basically what you are saying here is that you are ALREADY experiencing FORCE not working... Just like gun control, drug laws, and murder laws don't keep psychos from killing people and junkies from getting high. I am a laissez faire individual. I believe individuals can make the best decisions for themselves or live with the consequences.

Those of us that want to take this seriously are allowed to. Shouldn't be forced to.

Those of us that want to take calculated risk and enter society should be allowed to. <-ME

Those of us that want to be complete retards, take no precaution, and contract this should be allowed to.

The fact of the matter is that problems get solved faster while the economy is functioning. The ECONOMY solves problems, not government.

Printing trillions is a band aid. Not a solution.

Making people hide out in their homes is a band aid. Not a solution.

We currently have an argument going on in this country about whether the economy is worth a ton of deaths.... As if it is FACT that letting people work and take calculated risk is going to make more people die. It isn't fact and it isn't proven.

With the rate this thing spreads it is only a matter of time before everyone gets it. I would feel safer with the economy functioning well and companies and hospitals having a profit motive to cure people. Until then people will undoubtedly error more on the side of caution when they live in densely populated areas than they will in the exurbs where I live because the risk is higher.

Putting the economy on its knees and shooting it in the head does nothing to save lives and it will have significantly negative health effects later anyway when the private sector isn't allowed to solve problems.

I hope that answers your question...
Thank you - that is a very thought provoking answer indeed. I'm serious, not being a smart a$$ in my response. You've set me to some deep dive internal thinking.
 
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PizzaOnTheRoof

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Check out the article. Very thought provoking. I pretty much agree with the whole thing.

Basically what you are saying here is that you are ALREADY experiencing FORCE not working... Just like gun control, drug laws, and murder laws don't keep psychos from killing people and junkies from getting high. I am a laissez faire individual. I believe individuals can make the best decisions for themselves or live with the consequences.

Those of us that want to take this seriously are allowed to. Shouldn't be forced to.

Those of us that want to take calculated risk and enter society should be allowed to. <-ME

Those of us that want to be complete retards, take no precaution, and contract this should be allowed to.

The fact of the matter is that problems get solved faster while the economy is functioning. The ECONOMY solves problems, not government.

Printing trillions is a band aid. Not a solution.

Making people hide out in their homes is a band aid. Not a solution.

We currently have an argument going on in this country about whether the economy is worth a ton of deaths.... As if it is FACT that letting people work and take calculated risk is going to make more people die. It isn't fact and it isn't proven.

With the rate this thing spreads it is only a matter of time before everyone gets it. I would feel safer with the economy functioning well and companies and hospitals having a profit motive to cure people. Until then people will undoubtedly error more on the side of caution when they live in densely populated areas than they will in the exurbs where I live because the risk is higher.

Putting the economy on its knees and shooting it in the head does nothing to save lives and it will have significantly negative health effects later anyway when the private sector isn't allowed to solve problems.

I hope that answers your question...
The government has one job: Protect the people.

So when a global pandemic washed on our shore in which we are wholly unprepared for, and has the ability to kill millions of citizens, the government should take appropriate action.

The problem isn't just how many people will get it, it's how FAST they will get it. We cannot, CAN NOT afford to have millions of people infected within weeks. Our hospitals are unable to cope with that demand. It would cripple our entire healthcare system and I'd bet many more would die.

That's fine if you want to put you and your loved ones in danger. Go for it.

this little flu
I'd like to hear you say that in front of your parents and grandparents.

"Sure you'll probably know someone who will die from this but it's ok just roll the dice folks."
 

lowtek

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The government has one job: Protect the people.
The government exists to protect the rights of its citizens.

Your safety and security is your own responsibility.
 

kgf

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too early to say, but apparently the first wave of lockdown legislation seems to be working (see the red arrow on the right)
it is a war, today more than 600 people passed away.




31521
 
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Kak

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The government has one job: Protect the people.

So when a global pandemic washed on our shore in which we are wholly unprepared for, and has the ability to kill millions of citizens, the government should take appropriate action.

The problem isn't just how many people will get it, it's how FAST they will get it. We cannot, CAN NOT afford to have millions of people infected within weeks. Our hospitals are unable to cope with that demand. It would cripple our entire healthcare system and I'd bet many more would die.

That's fine if you want to put you and your loved ones in danger. Go for it.


I'd like to hear you say that in front of your parents and grandparents.

"Sure you'll probably know someone who will die from this but it's ok just roll the dice folks."
This is the same type of response I would expect from most. Most have an appetite for collectivism.

It is such linear thinking. Good economy somehow has to equal everyone dies. That is not the case. I have given several examples of how untrue that is.

These government lockdowns only “help” save lives to the extent that they prevent hospitals from turning dying, but save-able people away. The hospitals in this country aren’t turning people away. So the efforts thus far have saved no one.

If you took my comments to mean anything other than what I said... That’s not my problem.

The government’s job is not to protect us. It is to uphold and enforce our freedoms. Despite them taking other roles upon themselves.

If you like FAKE safety better than a thriving economy... Enjoy holing up and eating rice and beans for months on end to avoid a cough you are going to probably get anyway. Don’t force it on the rest of us at gunpoint. Many of us are the types that might just point back.
 

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Kak

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Thank you - that is a very thought provoking answer indeed. I'm serious, not being a smart a$$ in my response. You've set me to some deep dive internal thinking.
Of course, any time! I know you weren’t and there was no sarcasm intended in my response either.
 

PizzaOnTheRoof

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The government exists to protect the rights of its citizens.

Your safety and security is your own responsibility.
This is the same type of response I would expect from most. Most have an appetite for collectivism.

It is such linear thinking. Good economy somehow has to equal everyone dies. That is not the case. I have given several examples of how untrue that is.

If you took my comments to mean anything other than what I said... That’s not my problem.

The government’s job is not to protect us. It is to uphold and enforce our freedoms. Despite them taking other roles upon themselves.

If you like FAKE safety better than a thriving economy... Enjoy holing up and eating rice and beans for months on end to avoid a cough you are going to probably get anyway. Don’t force it on the rest of us at gunpoint. Many of us are the types that might just point back.
You guys are right. My bad. I’m the type that’ll point back too.

I just think too many people give F*ck all about others to take responsible action.

I really wish people would stop saying it just kills old people and immunodeficiency people.

As if they aren’t worth saving.
 

Ernman

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Your safety and security is your own responsibility.
I've always viewed this as a team effort. Yes, I have that responsibility - but as one person there's only so much I can do. However, as a member of a society - we can collectively provide greater safety and security. Our government is how that is done...or at least, should be done. I have never surrendered my responsibility to the government. In fact, spent 25 years doing my part for our collective defense. But I do expect my government to do their job increasing our safety and security beyond that which we can achieve as individuals.
 

MHP368

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perceived, yet unproven and unenforceable, safety measure.
We've been using quarantine against disease for literally thousands of years, and it nerfed the infection curve in all the countries that did it so "unproven" is, well a lie not just the truth being bent.

You won't have much of an economy with people dropping like flies and a full collapse of the healthcare system either. What the government should have done was actual containment like singapore , they coulda beefed up homeland security and CDC back in mid to late january and actually screened travellers / shut down flights from hot zones and then we wouldn't have community spread in the entire country

I also don't think its "collectivist vs libertarian" to enforce quarantine, the ability of the government to forcibly quarantine people in western liberal democracies goes back hundreds of years, typhoid mary ring a bell?

I'm pretty sure you're right to go about your business and possibly be an asymptomatic carrier stops right about where my lungs start breathing the same air as you.

Now if you want to look at the diamond princess numbers and discuss if the hospitalization rate is only representative of "cases sick enough to show up at a hospital" instead of "% of people infected total" , thats an entirely different (and optimistic) conversation , but if you're reasoning is that older people have fewer good years left and therefor you're willing to roll the dice then just say that, don't hide behind ayn rand (i'm not saying you're doing that on purpose, maybe your world view is just painted by those value systems)

Like , talking about just letting 10% of 80 year olds die is morbid but at least thats a real argument we can have (trillions spent divided by number of dead per age group etc) , if we're going to have that conversation (and it is a covnersation being had in some quarters, I believe the slatestarcodex subreddit had a discussion thread about it last week) then lets have THAT CONVERSATION and not couch it in terms of "the fountainhead"

Again, no disrespect at all to you but its laughable to me that you think you have the "right" to just ignore the pandemic and quarantine laws (well not even enforced quarantine, just asking for social distancing at this point)...because? , lets be brutal real here, you have whatever rights the guys with all the guns tell you you have and right now we're still well within the established bounds of what a free society can force its citizens to do.

Its like people think they're being drafted for war instead of asked to watch a lot of netflix. I'm a nurse, I have to go walk into this shitstorm , the least you could do for me is stay F*cking still long enough for us to catch our breathe and maybe find a god damn medicine or two to throw at the thing.
 

lowtek

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You guys are right. My bad. I’m the type that’ll point back too.

I just think too many people give F*ck all about others to take responsible action.

I really wish people would stop saying it just kills old people and immunodeficiency people.

As if they aren’t worth saving.
I definitely get where you're coming from. I think when people point that out, they aren't trying to diminish the value of those lives, rather they are trying to assuage their own fear. Since they're not old or immunocomprimised, they feel it won't affect them. The volume of people saying this leads me to believe that; I don't think there are that many people who are so heartless that they don't care if their own parents or grandparents die.
 

Kak

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We've been using quarantine against disease for literally thousands of years, and it nerfed the infection curve in all the countries that did it so "unproven" is, well a lie not just the truth being bent.

You won't have much of an economy with people dropping like flies and a full collapse of the healthcare system either. What the government should have done was actual containment like singapore , they coulda beefed up homeland security and CDC back in mid to late january and actually screened travellers / shut down flights from hot zones and then we wouldn't have community spread in the entire country

I also don't think its "collectivist vs libertarian" to enforce quarantine, the ability of the government to forcibly quarantine people in western liberal democracies goes back hundreds of years, typhoid mary ring a bell?

I'm pretty sure you're right to go about your business and possibly be an asymptomatic carrier stops right about where my lungs start breathing the same air as you.

Now if you want to look at the diamond princess numbers and discuss if the hospitalization rate is only representative of "cases sick enough to show up at a hospital" instead of "% of people infected total" , thats an entirely different (and optimistic) conversation , but if you're reasoning is that older people have fewer good years left and therefor you're willing to roll the dice then just say that, don't hide behind ayn rand (i'm not saying you're doing that on purpose, maybe your world view is just painted by those value systems)

Like , talking about just letting 10% of 80 year olds die is morbid but at least thats a real argument we can have (trillions spent divided by number of dead per age group etc) , if we're going to have that conversation (and it is a covnersation being had in some quarters, I believe the slatestarcodex subreddit had a discussion thread about it last week) then lets have THAT CONVERSATION and not couch it in terms of "the fountainhead"

Again, no disrespect at all to you but its laughable to me that you think you have the "right" to just ignore the pandemic and quarantine laws (well not even enforced quarantine, just asking for social distancing at this point)...because? , lets be brutal real here, you have whatever rights the guys with all the guns tell you you have and right now we're still well within the established bounds of what a free society can force its citizens to do.

Its like people think they're being drafted for war instead of asked to watch a lot of netflix. I'm a nurse, I have to go walk into this shitstorm , the least you could do for me is stay F*cking still long enough for us to catch our breathe and maybe find a god damn medicine or two to throw at the thing.
Don’t call this quarantine; because it isn't. The outbreak is already here. You can’t control this anymore with a quarantine because all it takes is one infected person to infect three more and this goat rope starts all over again.

As I have already defended my position ad nauseam I’ll just copy and paste my previous statement.

These government lockdowns only “help” save lives to the extent that they prevent hospitals from turning dying, but save-able people away. The hospitals in this country aren’t turning people away. So the efforts thus far have saved no one. All of this at a massive expense to the economy.

Wow! Does that sound like just letting people die? No. It doesn’t.

Of course at the end of your straw filled nutcase rant, where you shame me with words you put in my mouth; you need to play the nurse card just like everyone else and their grandparents card for your appeal to emotion fallacy.

I shouldn’t have looked at ignored replies I guess. Younger me had you pegged. Enjoy your continued stay on my ignore list.
 

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Does anyone know of countries that are NOT locked down?

One of my buddies flew out to Singapore last week from PR. Said there's no lockdowns because everyone takes relative caution, but hospitals were prepared for this (because of the SARS outbreak in 2003) and they aggressively attack every case.

Sounds like a dream :(
Iceland
 

Vigilante

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Italy update
too early to say, but apparently the first wave of lockdown legislation seems to be working (see the red arrow on the right)
it is a war, today more than 600 people passed away.




View attachment 31521
Is it the lockdown, or is it possible that the virus is just running it’s course.
 
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