The Worldwide C0VlD-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

[Vigilante]

Non-preppers angry at preppers because non-preppers called preppers panicked until non-preppers panicked and tried to prep but they were too late.

People who normally buy 1 week of toilet paper who bought 3 weeks worth last week weren’t greedy or panicked, they were smart. People who mocked them then are fighting in Costco parking lots now.

Remind me who the dumb ones are?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

@GIlman I consider this to be a very good job of explaining, but, at this point, I think it would be easier to to talk through and not be taken out of context with heavy straw if we have a phone discussion.

As you know and have probably observed, the more pro government side of the argument seems to have the monopoly on straw.

If you really want to have a discussion, let’s chat on the phone.

@GIlman and I are going to be on his podcast together on Monday. We plan to have an open dialogue about the policy response to coronavirus.

I look forward to it...

Sometimes actual words are just so much better.

 

[Kak]

 

[GIlman]

 

[BellaPippin]

If you watch something today, watch this

View attachment DelightfulUnhappyAracari-mobile.mp4

 

[Kak]

 

[Kak]

I’m sure you are going to see lots of lawsuits after this is over challenging the legality of a lot of what happened. Not that I put a lot of faith in the courts in today’s world. It’s largely a crapshoot based on the political ideology of the judge.

A similar example of this type of behavior was police seizing guns from citizens after hurricane Katrina in violation of the second amendment.

Agreed! This needs to happen. There will, as usual, be a lot of this still left in place unnecessarily. Especially since a lot of it is unnecessary now.

So I was on the phone with @Vigilante yesterday... He said he was at a park with his young daughter, kicking the soccer ball around, not hurting anyone, minding their own business. A cop literally drove up and forced them to leave. The question is why? Vig said they were 400 yards from the nearest person. Way to go... Protect and serve? Nope. Traumatizing little girls... Yep.

There are also curfews at night in many places across the country... Including where I live. Why exactly does that help? I can't be in my car, alone, after midnight? Why?

@GPM is talking about not being able to go camping in the wilderness. Alone. Why?

@UnrealCreative mentioned not being able to go on a walk. Alone. Why?

The remedy stopped fitting the problem and a lot of this is terrifying. Our rights don't come from government. Freedom is a human right. Many forget that. If you have to beg for your freedoms, you aren't free. Even if you have to ask nicely, you aren't free.

That meme I posted about how the government wants everyone to stay home so they can change the batteries in the birds... While funny, it is starting to look like some alternative agendas and unnecessary seizing of power are going on.

 

[ChrisV]

This thread lol:

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

 

[NovaAria]

@ChrisV I agree with you on a lot of what you said, but let me one up you on a couple of points.

First off, before reading TFM and quitting my day job, I was working in Pharmaceutical Biotechs and Bioengineering and, believe me, there is 0 good will in that field. I have talked about vaccine patents a lot in this thread as this is my field of study and I would have loved to dabble in it again if I smelled a good opportunity.
Vaccines are not free and they are not made to eradicate diseases. They are products a company pours millions in research and development to make, they protect them with continually renewed IP patents, and the greatest joy of a vaccine manufacturer is to see a government add his product to the list of mandatory vaccines.
There is a reason why investing in Pharmaceutical companies is one of the safest investments ever. People can stop using their cars, can eat less if the money is tight... But if the doctor prescribes you something and tells you that you will go blind if you don't buy it, will you really skip that?
The heart behind mandatory vaccination is good, we need that for certain diseases. But when you start asking which vaccines should be added to the list, who pays for them and who gets that money... suddenly its a whole new discussion where ethics go out the window.

As for Bill Gates, he is no angel either. If you're a bit of an internet geek, read up on Microsoft's EEE strategy and you will start seeing how much they strangle the competition by pretending to help it. Billie himself used to sell operating systems for computers, but now his business is in selling the data he acquires through operating systems. The running joke right now is that the worst malware you could get on Windows 10, is Windows 10 itself.
So when you think of him as a data salesman, does it surprise you that he's a pioneer in skin-chips and vaccines that can be tracked with computers? Is that really what African children who can barely get enough food really need?

And my final point is, yes, Africa is the testing ground for all manners of vaccines and drugs. And this is not an anecdote. I personally worked with the US government on research done for curing the Leishmania disease in North Africa. We benefited from the research and got drugs and equipment as aid but the goal was never to help cure a disease that hit the people there, that was a secondary benefit. The goal for the US government was to have a cure for something a soldier could catch when deployed in the middle east or elsewhere.

There are no angels when money is involved, so don't ask if there will be a Corona vaccine, but ask who will pay for it, and who will get that money. The worldwide panic is literally a money printing machine waiting for someone to start it.

 

[biophase]

I shared what I shared because this thread had me legit panicked for about 4 hours a few days ago. Some people have shared some seemingly credible scary stuff on here.

The unknown nature of this gave my brain fits, especially when I asked myself, "What if my kids got the possibly weaponized never seen before world infecting killer virus for which we have no cure?"

Brain. Stopped. Working.

My fear felt irrational.

So I started seeking out the counterpoints. I had to know to what level of fear was rational.

And if I struggled with this kind of emotion, then others probably are/have.

That said, I personally stocked up because it is better to have and not need than need and not have.

This leads to an interesting question. As business owners, we deal with the unknown all the time. In fact, the unknown is pretty much the only truth that we know.

So maybe this is why some of us act differently than others to this virus. I know for me, my first reaction was to read the data, come to my own conclusions, make my own predictions and then do something about it.

This is why I stocked up a few weeks ago. That was for me personally. For my business, I ordered additional supplies that we needed for inventory and took steps to make sure we had enough inventory for the next 6-8 months.

When talking to others who work a regular job, they seemed to downplay everything. They didn't like to think about "what if scenarios." Maybe that is because "what if scenarios" to them are all doom and gloom. If you think about it, 9 to 5 workers worry about alot of things, like the economy, whether or not they will get laid off, and they can't do anything about them.

Maybe as entrepreneurs we see things from a different lens. We are used running scenarios in our heads and developing plans and solving problems.

 

[Vigilante]

Below are some key highlights/takeaways from a Goldman Sachs investor call that was held yesterday (Saturday) re C0VlD-19 and its economic implications where 1,500 companies dialed in.
Key Takeaways:
---------------------

(1) Projection that 50% of Americans will contract the virus (150MM people) as it is very communicable. This is on a par with the common cold (Rhinovirus) of which there are about 200 strains and of which the majority of Americans will get 2-3 times per year.

(2) Expectation that 70% of Germany (58MM people) will contract the virus. As you know, Chancellor Angela Merkel projects this same figure. This is the next most relevant industrial economy to be effected - watch carefully.

(3) Peak - virus expected over the next 8 weeks, declining thereafter.

(4) The virus appears to be concentrated in a band between 30-50 degrees North latitude, meaning that like the common cold and flu, this virus prefers cold weather. It is expected that the coming summer in the Northern hemisphere should help. This is to say that the virus is likely seasonal.

(5) Of those impacted, 80% will be early-stage, 15% mid-stage and 5% critical-stage. Early-stage symptoms are like the common cold and mid-stage symptoms are like the flu. These are stay at home for 2 weeks and rest. 5% will be critical and highly-weighted toward the elderly.

(6) Mortality rate, on average, up to 2%, heavily weighted toward the elderly and immunocompromised; meaning possibly up to 3MM (150MM x 2%) people. In the U.S. about 3MM/year die mostly due to old age and disease, those two being highly correlated. There will be significant overlap, so this does not mean 3MM new deaths from this virus. It means elderly people dying sooner due to respiratory issues. C0VlD-19 may, however, stress the healthcare system.

(7) There is a debate as to how to address the virus pre-vaccine. The U.S. is tending towards quarantine. The UK is tending toward allowing it to spread, so that the population can develop a natural immunity. Quarantine is likely to be ineffective and result in significant economic damage, but will slow the rate of transmission giving the healthcare system more time to deal with the case load.

(8) China’s economy has been significantly impacted, which has affected raw materials and the global supply chain. It may take up to 6 months for it to recover.

(9) Global GDP growth rate will be the lowest in 30 years at around 2%.

(10) S&P 500 companies likely to see a negative growth rate of -15% to -20% for 2020 overall.

(11) There will be economic damage from the virus itself, but the real damage is driven mostly by market psychology. Viruses have been with us forever. Goldman believes stock markets should fully recover in the 2nd half of the year.

(12) In the past week there has been a conflating of the impact of the virus with the developing oil price war between the KSA and Russia. While reduced energy prices are generally good for industrial economies the U.S., now a large energy exporter, is feeling a significant negative impact on the valuation of its domestic energy sector. This will continue for some time as the Russians are attempting to economically squeeze the American shale producers and the Saudi’s are caught in the middle and do not want to further cede market share to Russia or the U.S.

(13) Technically, the market generally has been looking for a reason to reset after the longest bull market in history.

(14) There is NO systemic risk. No one is even talking about that as the private banking sector is very well capitalized. Governments are intervening in the markets to stabilize them. Goldman did not address non-bank banks and their respective balance sheets, which are not as healthy as the regulated banking sector.

(15) Goldman: This feels more like 9/11 than 2008…

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Andy Black]

Amen brother. We are combining the 2 on a daily basis.

View attachment 31189View attachment 31190View attachment 31191

Ditto.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ChrisV]

I found this 'good news' list on Snopes, who says the list is true:

A viral list notes numerous "good news" items related to the fight against the C0VlD-19 coronavirus disease pandemic.


How about some good news?

– China has closed down its last coronavirus hospital. Not enough new cases to support them.

– Doctors in India have been successful in treating Coronavirus. Combination of drugs used: Lopinavir, Retonovir, Oseltamivir along with Chlorphenamine. They are going to suggest same medicine, globally.

– Researchers of the Erasmus Medical Center claim to have found an antibody against coronavirus.

– A 103-year-old Chinese grandmother has made a full recovery from C0VlD-19 after being treated for 6 days in Wuhan, China.

– Apple reopens all 42 china stores,

– Cleveland Clinic developed a C0VlD-19 test that gives results in hours, not days.

– Good news from South Korea, where the number of new cases is declining.

– Italy is hit hard, experts say, only because they have the oldest population in Europe.

– Scientists in Israel likely to announce the development of a coronavirus vaccine.

– 3 Maryland coronavirus patients fully recovered; able to return to everyday life.

– A network of Canadian scientists are making excellent progress in C0VlD-19 research.

– A San Diego biotech company is developing a C0VlD-19 vaccine in collaboration with Duke University and National University of Singapore.

– Tulsa County’s first positive C0VlD-19 case has recovered. This individual has had two negative tests, which is the indicator of recovery.

– All 7 patients who were getting treated for at Safdarjung hospital in New Delhi have recovered.

– Plasma from newly recovered patients from Covid -19 can treat others infected by C0VlD-19.

 

[biophase]

I was talking to my friend and she was saying that she couldn't find hand sanitizer and thought it was dumb that people are hording it. She doesn't think much of the virus situation.

What I explained to her was that it doesn't matter what she thinks. She said all those people are stupid for buying up all the sanitizer, but the fact is that she is out of sanitizer and other people have alot of it.

So who is the dumb one in this situation?

This is much like when @MJ DeMarco says, the market doesn't care what you think. Just because you don't believe the corona virus is dangerous doesn't mean that you shouldn't do anything about it. If you know that there will be a run on XXXXX product, and you use that product, why not buy more? Why not go to the store today, instead of next week?

So when you are out of toilet paper and you have wipe your a$$ with your hand, think about who the idiot is.

 

[BizyDad]

THANK YOU EVERYONE.

Sincerely, so many of you have spent serious time this thread typing out pages of in-depth pages of thoughts and positions and theories and advice.

It is a really amazing to behold. I have learned so much more than I possibly could have accumulated on my own .

And I for one just want to take a moment and thank you for caring enough about this community and your fellow man to be this invested in this thread (and forum).

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Trevor Kuntz]

"Please spell 'Nothing burger'"

"Hmm, could you please use it in a sentence?"

"Yes. 'After ignoring repeated warnings to prepare for community outbreak, Rivoli's only food source during quarantine was a nothing burger.'"

 

[Fox]

I knew it! Secret plan to get rid of extroverts!

As a web designer, I have been unknowingly been preparing for the last few years

- work from home and isolate

- no human contact with anyone

- eat from your house

- prepare to be indoors from the next few months

Introverts have a good head start on this lol.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Vigilante]

I don’t mean to pry vigilante but I have a lot of respect for you and am curious on your views on helping those who haven’t prepared. I am a Christian and on one hand feel an obligation to lend a hand whenever I can, on the other hand I have my own family to look after and not knowing how long this is going to last don’t want to jeopardize them to help those who simply ignored this.

We'll be OK. My kids are OK. My immediate family is OK. I don't see this as apocalyptic (and if it was, so be it). We have a circle of immediate friends, and what I have they're welcome to. We will figure out the next chapters if needed.

My viewpoint is perfectly summed up by this old writing from C.S. Lewis, far more eloquent than I could ever be. It was written in 1948 after the dawn of the atomic age.

In one way we think a great deal too much of the atomic bomb. “How are we to live in an atomic age?” I am tempted to reply: “Why, as you would have lived in the sixteenth century when the plague visited London almost every year, or as you would have lived in a Viking age when raiders from Scandinavia might land and cut your throat any night; or indeed, as you are already living in an age of cancer, an age of syphilis, an age of paralysis, an age of air raids, an age of railway accidents, an age of motor accidents.”

In other words, do not let us begin by exaggerating the novelty of our situation. Believe me, dear sir or madam, you and all whom you love were already sentenced to death before the atomic bomb was invented: and quite a high percentage of us were going to die in unpleasant ways. We had, indeed, one very great advantage over our ancestors—anesthetics; but we have that still. It is perfectly ridiculous to go about whimpering and drawing long faces because the scientists have added one more chance of painful and premature death to a world which already bristled with such chances and in which death itself was not a chance at all, but a certainty.

This is the first point to be made: and the first action to be taken is to pull ourselves together. If we are all going to be destroyed by an atomic bomb, let that bomb when it comes find us doing sensible and human things—praying, working, teaching, reading, listening to music, bathing the children, playing tennis, chatting to our friends over a pint and a game of darts—not huddled together like frightened sheep and thinking about bombs. They may break our bodies (a microbe can do that) but they need not dominate our minds.

— “On Living in an Atomic Age” (1948)

 

[Andy Black]

View attachment 31155

So we have the plague to blame for calculus? It’s brought misery long after it’s gone...

 

[MTEE1985]

In non-Covid19 news, let’s welcome the forum’s newest Legendary Contributor @ChrisV

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Primeperiwinkle]

Anyone else noticing a reset in dopamine levels/feeling way more gratitude?

Not to sound cheesy but I catch myself really enjoying simple things and just feeling really good. Last night I was thinking how comfy my couch was for like 5 minutes haha.

I know there is a lot wrong right now but there is so much to be happy and grateful about also - we might be all stuck inside but we still live better than 99.99% of people who ever lived.

I think the last year before this I had been kinda rushing around and not really taking in a lot of stuff. Slowing down and having to focus on the day to day has been really helpful and enjoyable. I have been sleeping some of my best sleeps ever also.

I'd be interested to see if anyone else is feeling similar.

A few of my friends and church members around the globe and I have been praying the hours. Last night I spent nearly two hours just thanking God for stuff.. little things.. big things.. past things.. future things.

Right before I went to bed I got an email saying that a stupid piece of paper which I’ve been waiting on for FIVE weeks had arrived at my local post office. Today, I got it in the mail.

I’m playing worship music around the clock and moving forward with stuff in amazing ways.. and it is Good. I’m definitely feeling grateful today.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ChrisV]

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

I've clearly upset you. And for that, I apologize. It honestly wasn't my intent.

I am sorry.

I have been wrong more times than I can count on all the fingers in the world. Not only do I have no problem admitting that, but I'm very proud of it. I attribute much of my success to the fact that I'm not ashamed to screw up -- and it's something I've probably done more than most people.

If it makes you feel better to hear me admit that I've been wrong LOTS of times on this forum, I will happily admit it! And if it will make you feel better to hear me admit it again tomorrow and the next day and the day after that, all you have to do is remind me and I'll happily do it. I'm certainly never going to be ashamed about making a mistake or being wrong. And I thank every single person here who has corrected me and helped ensure that the information I provide is accurate and valuable. Because that's good for everyone.

I wish you the best, and I hope you find success one day.

With all sincerity, if there's ever anything I can ever help you with, don't hesitate to reach out to me.

Honestly, no worries man. I appreciate that.

My apologies for getting bent out of shape more than I should have. These are emotional times unfortunately. Stuck in our homes and pissed off... We are all in this together in a strange way.

Let’s move forward. Clean slate.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

What's going on in parts of the country, and that fact that is it implemented and enforced, and the citizens are allowing it, is insane.

You can't buy seeds to grow your own food?
You can't use your motorboat on the lake?
You can't fish?
You can't visit your second home?
You can play ball with your kid in a park?
You can't do a drive thru worship?

How this country comes out the other side of this will be quite telling... because from these actions, what comes out is either 1) a carcass, 2) something unrecognizable, or 3) a renewed spirit of liberty.

Unfortunately my bet is not on the latter as my faith in the "average American" these days has reached new lows.

 

[Kak]

 

[biophase]

Wow, just wow. I'm going to say this as nicely as I can being someone that has gained a lot of value from this forum over the last few years. I can see that people with TDS are not the only ones starting to suffer from a bit of political derangement over this crisis. I'm starting to see views like this expressed from both sides where people are starting to view this virus as a political weapon that has been sent to attack "their side". I know we are in an election year, but this is not a red vs blue issue imo. I hope people can focus on encouraging their leaders to remain united and do what is right for the health and economic wellbeing of the public and we can get this under control. After that happens would be the best time to go back to worrying about the election imo. I don't think whoever released this virus in China (accidentally or otherwise) cared much whether a D or R wins the next election in the USA.

I consider myself a pretty informed person that can see both sides of arguments, read and interpret data, come to logical conclusions and have empathy towards all. But I just want to say that I have no F*cking clue what you guys are arguing about in this thread anymore. Seriously many of these posts make no sense to me at all. There’s no knowledge being exchanged and this is just a shit show.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[PapaGang]

This comparison doesn't really make sense, since car accidents don't spread from person to person in the grocery line.

You haven't been to my grocery store.

 

[Ninjakid]