The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success

The True Purpose of University Education - Jordan Peterson

Remove ads while supporting the Unscripted philosophy...become an INSIDER.

Envision

Platinum Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
May 5, 2014
677
4,015
1,005
25
I put this in Slowlane as many people with the university education mindset go down that path despite some of the points being fastlane.

I know there are alot of people that are against university education, myself included (as it is generally accepted). But I've been going deep on Jordan Peterson's lectures and talks (he's brilliant). And I thought this was one of the best explanations of the purpose and value of a university education. Seriously, made me consider going back and the points he makes are fastlane

I think it'd be a good thing to consider for all those people that come here asking that question as well.


Full talk:

-Yes, he's speaking to Harvard students, but it's not limited to Harvard Students.
- His background: Jordan Peterson - Wikipedia
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

JWelch

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Aug 12, 2016
161
388
185
Arizona
This guy does produce some great ideology on what higher education can and should be used for. Ideally without the six-figure price tag.

Hands down the biggest thing I've learned from this man just by watching these videos is how captivating someone can be when they are able to articulate what they want to say in a way that you can see their passionate interest in their expressions.

I think this is why it's necessary in business to have passion in whatever it is that you're doing. Even if your passion is simply to feel like you're adding value to another's life. You command attention when people see your passion for whatever product you're offering.
 

splok

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 20, 2012
647
1,089
388
I thought this was one of the best explanations of the purpose and value of a university education. Seriously, made me consider going back
I've only watched the short clip, but how can you watch that and want to go to college? He says great things about what college should be for and then basically says that it has turned worthless because it's not doing that at all!

Sadly, being articulate beyond comprehension hasn't helped him in his fight against his own university or legal system (at least in the short term). Hopefully it does enable him to spread his work to a much larger audience than he would have ever reached as a traditional academic though, which could turn into a victory in the long-term.
 

SquatchMan

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 27, 2016
453
1,657
468
Nowhere
Seriously, made me consider going back and the points he makes are fastlane
He literally says, "Go to trade school, at least you'll learn something useful."

I will contest Peterson on that point. I majored in a liberal arts major (laugh all you want; I learned a lot) and my views are/were similar to Peterson's.

I got really, really, really good at articulating/stating my position on a topic because every position I took was opposed to the group ideology. Oftentimes I would be defending my position from 20 opponents, including the professor. I even converted a few people to my position.

You know how many soft skills one learns from defending their ideology from 20 opponents?

Those debates in liberal arts classes taught me more about sales, persuasion, and soft business skills than any business class I took... and I took a bunch.

Now if you were just one of the mindless drones rehashing the groupthink, then any non-STEM degree (besides Accounting and a few others) is useless.

And Peterson is probably telling the mindless drone not to go to college, which I'd hope most people on FLF are not mindless drones.
 

MitchM

Act. Then Adapt.
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Nov 15, 2016
411
808
322
24
Atlanta, GA
I really like Jordan Peterson but this talk is about what university education should be... not about what it is. Right now, in order to achieve what he is talking about "articulation beyond comprehension"... you'd be better off just hitting the books on your own. You don't need a university library. I just use a kindle. Then, if you want to hone your skills, debate with your friends and whoever else you come across. Even on forums.
 

splok

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 20, 2012
647
1,089
388
you'd be better off just hitting the books on your own. You don't need a university library.
Exactly, I mean, his leading point was that college is good because it gives you a socially acceptable excuse to do nothing but read for 4 years. I'm pretty sure I've argued here before that the best use of college is to spend 4 years working on your business, though I guess the point would really be to spend your time getting really good at something, anything... (and ignoring the actual college as much as possible of course).
 

Real Deal Denver

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jan 13, 2018
861
2,022
547
65
Denver, Colorado
I know I'd be one pissed guy if I paid the bucks to go to Harvard and had to sit through this drivel. I never thought of myself as more intelligent than a Harvard grad - but this video is going a LONG ways to validate that belief!

Everything he says is drawn out ad nauseam, and he says things that everyone agrees with. Yeah, we GET it already. He should be three times LESS intellectual, four times more interesting, and seven times more motivating. But I guess we have enough people like that already. I know: I buy their books.

You know what profession extols those attributes, besides being a professor?

Politician.

And that speaks volumes (pun intended). Impressive, not. Two words - how's that for being articulate?

boring to death.gif
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

ChrisV

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 10, 2015
2,474
4,672
1,152
Islands of Calleja
I really like Jordan Peterson but this talk is about what university education should be... not about what it is. Right now, in order to achieve what he is talking about "articulation beyond comprehension"... you'd be better off just hitting the books on your own. You don't need a university library. I just use a kindle. Then, if you want to hone your skills, debate with your friends and whoever else you come across. Even on forums.
Meh, I think the best is to do both. The problem with ‘hitting the books’ is that most books suck. "The Secret,” “The Science of Getting Rich”... I mean when you do both, you know which books are legitimate and which aren’t.
 

Walterbl

Contributor
Sep 23, 2018
47
42
44
College is good if your parents can pay for it or if the government provides it for free. But I would be very careful about getting into heavy debt for a degree. Specially something in a non-high paying field.
 

Veloman

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Feb 10, 2018
76
102
127
Austin
So reading is suppose to give you the ability to articulate yourself?

I don't buy it.

Experience, conversing in person with others, and writing builds an articulate person.

Reading without action can only go so far.

IMO, college should be about gaining as many new experiences as possible.

Every time I go to a library and scan through the titles of books, I think to myself how much knowledge is there, but also on how much time can be wasted if you are not focused. And as someone else stated, there are tons of books that are not worth reading.

Knowledge is learned through experience not just reading.
 

Real Deal Denver

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jan 13, 2018
861
2,022
547
65
Denver, Colorado
So reading is suppose to give you the ability to articulate yourself?

I don't buy it.

Experience, conversing in person with others, and writing builds an articulate person.

Reading without action can only go so far.

IMO, college should be about gaining as many new experiences as possible.

Every time I go to a library and scan through the titles of books, I think to myself how much knowledge is there, but also on how much time can be wasted if you are not focused. And as someone else stated, there are tons of books that are not worth reading.

Knowledge is learned through experience not just reading.
Ahhhhhhhhh. The refreshing breeze of someone who actually gets it. I had to read that three times, and I bet you never went to Harvard even! Hung on. Every. Word.

By the way, I think the exact same thing when I'm in a library - and I also think how much knowledge is there that is of absolutely no practical value. Humans can regress into being unproductive by thinking about thinking; to greatly simplify the concept ("The act of reasoning backward from an effect to a cause or of continually applying a process of reasoning to its own results." - Yeah, think about that one all you college boys). That's the exact opposite of "doing" something, which brings me to the time honored truism of "Those that can do" dictum, which is especially validated in this case.

I have an urgent need to grab a book off my bookshelf now for a quick boost to counteract the effect of this rhetoric and not let my brain slow down to the level of this drivel.

To add to your quote: "Knowledge is learned through experience not just reading." Knowledge is knowing something, but wisdom is applying and using that knowledge through practice. The older ones among us will understand and agree with that immediately - the youngins will scratch their head and refer back to their professor for more - wait for it - knowledge. Knowledge, while certainly important, is overrated. If knowledge was all that mattered, we could all buy some software that had all the answers. But since that's not the case, on the other hand, we can discuss it until we all die of old age. Pffffffffffffffffffff.
 

Veloman

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Feb 10, 2018
76
102
127
Austin
Yes, wisdom was what I meant to say, instead of knowledge.

This reminds of that movie with Scarlett Johansson "Lucy" where she absorbs a bag of one drug and is able to basically download all of human knowledge at once. So when I'm at the library looking at all the books, I think to myself, "what would it be like if I had read everything here?" Would I become incredibly smart, perhaps be able to make billions of dollars? I reason that yes, I would likely have a lot of knowledge, but question the effect of it without taking action.

This leads me to start to think about how perhaps right now, with my relatively limited number of books and other knowledge that I've attained, I consider myself smart, yet still it doesn't change my situation very much at all. And so why should I continue to gain knowledge in so many new areas? I reason that instead perhaps I would be better off having specialized in one area, while taking action to implement my knowledge.

Society doesn't really value a general knowledge. Value is created when we are able to improve life for others, and that usually means having a specific focused skillset or expertise, or a system of managing a group of people or resources that can implement the value offering (a business).

Since we don't live in the science fiction of movies like Lucy, we have to reconcile that greatness is achieved through action, not simply knowledge. Knowledge is a good first step, but needs to followed up on. I like a lot of Jordan Peterson's philosophy, but think young people need to gain more experiences, and college is a great time for it. As Gary Vaynerchuk says - get out there and taste as much as you can.
 

Real Deal Denver

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jan 13, 2018
861
2,022
547
65
Denver, Colorado
This leads me to start to think about how perhaps right now, with my relatively limited number of books and other knowledge that I've attained, I consider myself smart, yet still it doesn't change my situation very much at all. And so why should I continue to gain knowledge in so many new areas? I reason that instead perhaps I would be better off having specialized in one area, while taking action to implement my knowledge.
If we could only figure out how YOU learned this, we could educate everyone else the same way, and we'd all be better off.

There are very few breakthroughs. The vast majority of people search out what successful people are doing, and then simply replicate that. A very few invent something so profound as twitter. Where would we be without twitter? Uber was a ground breaking concept. It does happen, although rarely.

Replicate, specialize, and master.

That's the message Tony Robbins has been pushing for years.

How come you and I understand that so well? Why doesn't everyone see that?

I thank my father for fostering my ability to focus. He can talk all day long, every day, about things that don't matter. And the next day, we can start all over again. I guess that's why this blathering professor had such a glaring effect on me. Put em all in a room and let em blather each other to death. Even write a book about it. As for me, I've got work to do that IS productive.
 

Veloman

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Feb 10, 2018
76
102
127
Austin
It comes down to being able to think critically. I haven't done anything special. I've read some books like 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, Unscripted, and a few others. Been following Gary Vaynerchuck for almost a year and Mr Money Mustache for a while. I try to assess what people say and sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. I don't blindly follow anyone. There are some things I didn't agree with in all of these sources.

Are you saying that people should replicate other successful people?

I and I'm sure a lot of others have the idea of what Uber is long before they executed and were successful. Innovation is necessary, but not the only path. I just watched a youtube video on how hard it is to be successful when doing something new. I can't remember who it was. It might have been a show on startups on Prime video. I think this Prof Peterson has a lot of good material. I've watched more of his stuff.

A long time ago I heard that specialization is more and more important. It wasn't so important 200 years ago on the homestead. A jack of all trades isn't valued much now. I think it might have been in my high school business class. One of my favorite classes, Entrepreneurship. Of course it didn't really teach it, but the theory was interesting.

One of the biggest problems I see in society is that people generalize way too much. They are lazy. We polarize and categorize. We don't acknowledge the gray area and the fact that many variables go into creating an outcome. This can be addressed through life experiences.
 
Last edited:

Real Deal Denver

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jan 13, 2018
861
2,022
547
65
Denver, Colorado
Are you saying that people should replicate other successful people?
That's one of the key messages from Tony Robbins, who has helped train and develop untold numbers of successful people. He is one that "walks the walk." There is a vast difference in telling someone WHAT to do rather than a study of how things are. Knowing what to do and how to approach it are hands on skills that will lead to something productive. Studying and talking about how many people do something is, well, discussion. Sure it's interesting to know, but is it useful? Studies have found that most studies are a waste of time. What's the percentage of people that don't care what percentage of a group people are in? Just. Do. It.

It comes down to being able to think critically.
I was not always the person I am today. I once was a beginner that was in awe of the leaders I saw. At one time, I just did "my job" and was not even able to see the big picture, much less think critically. Over time I gained a lot of experience and specialized knowledge. Now, many things just make "sense" because I understand so much more. With that much deeper understanding comes the ability to "think critically." It is possible to know "too much" which stifles the natural creativity in someone and actually prevents them from thinking critically. They are too busy following all the rules and guidelines to make sure they do everything the way their professors so carefully taught them. And then there are the Gates, the Zuckerbergs, the Dells, the Jobs, and the Musks of the world...

After enduring these "lectures" - and I see why that term has such a negative connotation - I see that getting a degree by "putting in your time" is as much, if not more, than actually learning something. I would have stood up in these lectures and said, "Can we get to the point?" and likely walked out.

I am collaborating right now with a near genius. I guarantee you that I learn more from this man in five minutes than any professor could bestow in an hour. It is a rare privilege to work with someone so gifted and to be able to throw any question at him, for which he always responds with a FORTHRIGHT and clear answer. From working directly with this fantastic man, two thoughts have come to the forefront of my mind:

First, as Einstein said; "If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough."

And secondly; "When wise men speak it is because they have something to say, but when fools speak it is because they have to say something."

You'll know it if and when you encounter a true genius. It will be unlike anything you have experienced before. I have only met two in my life. They are rare people indeed, and they also tend to blend into the background (by choice) so they are very hard to find. If you are fortunate to encounter one, you are fortunate indeed, because you can learn things from them at light speed because they will filter out the rhetoric and deal with only the PERTINENT facts and theories. That's what I expect from professors, but they seem to actually give so little, and supply the rest with "filler." Kind of like the movie industry in a strange way; if half a movie is really really good, you have seen an excellent movie. They'll fill the rest up with peripheral useless crap so you "get your money's worth." As Paul Simon put into song a long time ago, "When I think back on all the crap I learned in High School, it's a wonder I can think at all."

{mic drop}
 

Real Deal Denver

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jan 13, 2018
861
2,022
547
65
Denver, Colorado
The ones that can't find the books and learn it on their own. No shame in that. Not everyone can be self taught.

Here are the different phases of learning;

1) Someone guides you through a book and explains it to you.
2) You read the book yourself and gain the knowledge.
3) You know the subject matter very well, and are able to guide someone else through the book.
4) You write the book.

Now you know.

I could base a series of lectures (including, of course, supporting studies) on that, but why bother, when it can be clearly stated in one paragraph?

If you don't "get" that, and are able to sit and listen for long periods of time, then you are an ideal candidate for college.
 

ChrisV

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 10, 2015
2,474
4,672
1,152
Islands of Calleja
The ones that can't find the books and learn it on their own. No shame in that. Not everyone can be self taught.

I could base a series of lectures (including, of course, supporting studies) on that, but why bother, when it can be clearly stated in one paragraph?
SO DO IT.

Dude, you tried saying that in the other thread and what you said was nowhere as valuable a what he said... The summary you gave was not even what he said at all. If it were people would be paying you the amount they pay him.

If your grasp is go good, go post it to YouTube and save everyone some time

This is a professor that people are literally sending 80K/ MONTH in DONATIONS

The rise of Patreon – the website that makes Jordan Peterson $80k a month

So if you insights are so valuable and good, go post them to youTube and make 81,000/month

WHAT ARE YOU DOING WHY ARE YOU WASTING TIME

Go post it on YouTube... go make 80K/mo....

I always find it so amazing when people say ‘____ is so easy’... so shit go do it! If you’re go post the videos and rake in the cash.

635802483414942414-Raking-in-money.jpg

There is absolutely no reason why someone would turn down tens of thousands of dollars per month to post 2 minute paragraphs on YouTube

Bro we get it.... you think you’re smarter than Harvard professors. Problem is: you need other people to think so too.
 
Last edited:

ChrisV

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 10, 2015
2,474
4,672
1,152
Islands of Calleja
I think you really need to contact Harvard with this idea. Go to their campus and let them know your thoughts about you being a guest at their talks.

Denver: “Listen... i don’t think this that conversation should have been with one of the most respected professors in academia. It should have been done with me. I was watching on the fastl-"

Security Guard: “Sir, first I’m a security guard. Second, please leave our campus.”

security-guard-holding-hand-out-DEEJXA.jpg

Security: “You’re not getting in."

Denver: “NO STOP I’M BRILLIANT YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND”

Security Guard “Yea we’re gonna need backup”

ISSM-Guard_sf1a-web.jpg
 

Real Deal Denver

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jan 13, 2018
861
2,022
547
65
Denver, Colorado
Since I have not written any best selling books yet, I think it is wise to defer to someone that has.

Maybe @MJ DeMarco could shed some light on how he managed to write his two brilliant books. Did he have extensive college training to do it? If he did, could he have done that without the college training?

Why aren't college professors writing best selling books? Maybe they are. If they are, why don't they get the traction that the everyday man, like DeMarco gets? I don't say "everyday man" with any disrespect. It is meant to reflect someone that has achieved great success withOUT spending decades studying.

Maybe I'm all wrong about this. I don't follow credentials of people closely.

I do follow their messages, and the best ones seem to rise to the top, regardless of pedigree.

I clearly remember a scene in the movie about Mark Zuckerberg (The Social Network) when he walks out of the classroom, and utters the correct answer as he leaves. Priceless.

If you want to mock me and make snide innuendos, be aware that, despite all my weaknesses, I may have more relevant life experience than your worshiped professor. That may be a matter of debate. But I do know, for a fact, that DeMarco absolutely crushes your professor. I just don't know DeMarco's background. I do know several somewhat successful people's backgrounds that did not obtain degrees; Gates, Dell, Jobs, Turner, Ellison, Geffen, and Allen. Page and Brin, the founders of google, did attend college, so obviously it is possible to break free of the constrained thinking and achieve spectacular results. Presumably they did not have to sit through too many mind numbing lectures - who knows?

One of my own heroes, Mark Cuban, was asked if he could recreate his success if he had to start over again. Here is what was said;

"But if he lost everything overnight, including his wealth and his house, the entrepreneur says he could do it all again. His first step would be to go out and get two gigs.

"I would get a job as a bartender at night and a sales job during the day, and I would start working," says Cuban, in an interview for a recent episode of the podcast "How I Built This."

He isn't sure he could become a billionaire again. "To be a billionaire, you have got to get lucky," Cuban says.

But he's certain that he could turn seven figures. "Could I become a multimillionaire again? I have no doubt."

Mark Cuban: If I lost everything and had to start over, here's what I would do

So what is there to learn from this? Quit idolizing wind bag professors so much maybe? I don't really know. I'll readily admit that I do not *yet* have the qualifications and authority to be a respected speaker of proper stature to address that topic. But I do know a lot of people that do. A few, personally, and I'll take one hour with them (and I have) over ten hours with some blathering professor any day.

When you want to address an issue head on, and intelligently, let me know. Or, if you want to engage in puffery, save your time. There is plenty of that to go around already.

EDIT: I did find some info on what MJ thinks about college; "Just the other day, I can’t remember who I was talking to, but I said ‘every success in my life has not come from what I learnt at college but has come from what I have learned after’. We live in an amazing time where all the knowledge is out there and for the most part it’s free if you just want to apply yourself and go get it. It wasn’t like that 50 years ago, you just couldn’t go do that 50 years ago because the knowledge wasn’t there, it wasn’t available, it wasn’t accessible. Today there is no excuse. It’s there, you just need to go and get it, determine what you need to get and then apply it and that’s why it is just amazing that more people cannot see this..."

How to become a graduate entrepreneur with MJ DeMarco
 
Last edited:

MJ DeMarco

Administrator
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 23, 2007
29,861
105,663
3,751
Fountain Hills, AZ
Maybe @MJ DeMarco could shed some light on how he managed to write his two brilliant books. Did he have extensive college training to do it? If he did, could he have done that without the college training?
I have degrees in Marketing and Finance. But I've always enjoyed writing.

And I've always contributed to forums (writing).

Not sure how different my path would have turned out without college... hard to say.

Why aren't college professors writing best selling books? Maybe they are. If they are, why don't they get the traction that the everyday man, like DeMarco gets? I don't say "everyday man" with any disrespect. It is meant to reflect someone that has achieved great success withOUT spending decades studying.
They do and many of them do very well as they have big publishing houses behind them. But the truth of the matter is my niche is much more broadly defined than say, a neuroscientist who writes a book about cognitive biases.

I've tried to make my books relatable -- to show that I'm not special and not any different than the "average joe" -- and then aimed to make them transcendent to any time period with a heavy dose of mathematics which is very concrete vs ambiguous.

I did find some info on what MJ thinks about college; "Just the other day, I can’t remember who I was talking to, but I said ‘every success in my life has not come from what I learnt at college but has come from what I have learned after’.
Very true. Education doesn't end at graduation, it begins.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Sponsored Offers

  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE You Are One Call Away From Living Your Dream Life - LightHouse’s Accountability Program ⚡
Here is the talk I gave at the 2020 Fastlane Summit on Mastering your Mind In this video you...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Lex DeVille's - Advanced Freelance Udemy Courses!
LATE BIRTHDAY! I'm behind on everything this month, including getting promos out. Sorry, my bad...


Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe to become an INSIDER.

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Monthly conference calls with doers
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top Bottom
AdBlock Detected - Please Disable

Yes, ads can be annoying. But please...

...to support the Unscripted/Fastlane mission (and to respect the immense amount of time needed to manage this forum) please DISABLE your ad-block. Thank you.

I've Disabled AdBlock