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RANT Most liked posts in thread: The Secret/Law Of Attraction. Anyone believe in it?

  1. Johnny boy
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    Johnny boy Bronze Contributor Speedway Pass

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    The law of attraction is that everything is created in your mind before it's created in reality.

    Not thinking about big boats with girls in bikinis...

    But thinking about your business. How it's going to work. How you're going to grow it. Every little detail.

    You think about it and then do it, and it's a law that it will be attracted to you.
     
  2. SteveO
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    SteveO Legendary Contributor FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    Math does not lie. But it only quantifies what we understand.

    I fully believe that we are more powerful than we realize. We just don't have the scientific methods to understand it.
     
  3. RazorCut
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    It basically boils down to ‘you become what you think about’. If you think of it like that then it works for everyone and we all use it all the time.

    Think about what you have desired over the years. That bike when you were a kid, the watch you are wearing, that holiday last year. Your smartphone. The car that you are driving. You had a thought, it created a desire, and if the desire was strong enough, you fixated on it until you achieved it.

    You created a single purpose, a goal, and then set things in motion to make that goal a reality by doing something to work towards fulfilling that desire.

    The problem is most people only take it as far as buying a house when it will work for practically everything within reason. Maybe not that girl you truly desired at school because, while you were fixated on her, she was spending all her energy fixating about someone else.

    If you want a sensible read about a down to earth guy that used the law of attraction to great success to build $100m businesses and to live the life of his dreams, (without all of the hype) then read/listen to Three Simple Steps by Trevor Blake.
     
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  4. rogue synthetic
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    rogue synthetic * Not actually Rutger Hauer Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    With things like this, I try to cut it two ways.

    There's the stuff which is pretty obvious goofiness. What we've got here is a clear case of taking some words from a science, which makes it respectable and authoritative in the minds of a gullible public, and using them to prop up some low-effort metaphysics.

    The science gets butchered and the metaphysics is watered down. If you want to be a Buddhist or a Platonist or a Christian, just go be that. Nobody will mind.

    Then there's the stuff which has value because of how it gets you to think and feel and act. I don't see anything wrong with the message that you should avoid despair and hopelessness and try to act as if your life is amazing, that you can do amazing things if you apply yourself, and that you may in fact be rewarded for keeping a positive attitude and acting accordingly.

    But that brings us back to the original problem. There are plenty of writers, thinkers, artists, philosophers, and modern-day self-help gurus who can guide you in that direction without the goofiness.

    You might think it doesn't matter. But I wouldn't hire a housekeeper with a messy kitchen either.
     
  5. SamRussell
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    SamRussell Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

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    The quantum physics stuff in that video is all non-sense. If you want to understand quantum physics, you want "Engineering Mathematics" volumes one and two, followed by an undergrad text book on physics, followed by Rae's book on quantum mechanics.

    The "law of attraction" confuses two topics - metaphysics and personal development.

    On a metaphysical level, humans are just observers. Our consciousness observes nature and reality (note I mean reality and not your perception of reality), and then figures it out, as best our ability to integrate knowledge can figure it out (this is another topic bit depends mainly on three ideas - integration, misintegration and skepticism). Metaphysically (in terms of the fundemental building blocks of nature), we can't 'create' anything. I can't close my eyes, wish real hard, and boom, I know the lottery numbers for next week. I can't stand infront of a lava flow, pray to the gods, and magically survive. I can't conjure a gold bar out of thin air.

    On a personal development level, we can choose the course of our destiny. We can take what we have, work out where we want to go, and do our best to connect the dots inbetween, using our observations of reality to help us. I can think of an idea for a business, trade with others, and get my gold bar that way.
     
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  6. Zcott
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    The law of attraction does work. Go outside and smile at twenty people and see how many people smile back.
     
  7. MHP368
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    Can't summarize it and make fun of it in better terms than rational wiki so heres that link

    briefly though whats happening here is psychological priming (priming bias) and confirmation bias, here watch

    "blue cars"

    think blue car thoughts all day today as you drive

    boom! as if by magic suddenly the world will abound with blue cars

    its not magic, you were just filtering them out before

    but if you have no ability to critically think you might take this sudden seeming influx of blue cars as "proof" of the "law of attraction at work"

    then the confirmation bias hits.

    Also anyone using "quantum mechanics" to sell this is guilty of quantum woo

    You're brain is not a quantum computer, nothing happening at that scale has downstream effects that have a notable effect on consciousness (no, not even "tubules") , no evidence exists that this is a thing. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but all available evidence seems to indicate (by correlating actual physical phenomenon with functional magentic resonance images of people brains and what parts activate under what circumstances) that consciouseness is something a brain does, its an epiphenomenon resulting from physical processes in the brain, the consciouseness does not cause reality (the monistic idealist, new age woowoo stance)

    If you believe in magical woowoo bullets pm me and I'll sell you the most amazing hogwash I can access (and I have access to the worlds finest bullshit and hogwash mind you) , seriously, I take cash, bitcoin, checks, raw gold or jet skis. Give me your hard earned money and i'll spin you whatever comforting tale your heart desires :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  8. persistencyiskey
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    If you've ever read books such as Think and Grow Rich, Psycho Cybernetics, or one small step can change your life the kaizen way, they all have consistencies (some backed by science) in regards to the power of thinking through visualization, and what our subconscious mind is capable of.

    It's been said in these books that our brain cannot decipher between an actual experience and a vividly detailed visualization where you not only see, but hear, taste, smell, etc the experience.

    They all refer to an infinite intelligence source that we tap in to for knowledge and inspiration (even knowledge that we obtain without ever learning about it externally, crazy stuff!), and that by increasing our thoughts about any specific thing, desire or goal, these "vibrations" get sent to our subconscious and begin to go to work in collaboration with this intelligence source.

    Personally, I've read these books and I've practiced various methods (meditation, reflection, etc) that have allowed me to become more aware of my thoughts, processes, etc.

    When I practice these processes, I am able to recognize and pick up ideas and concepts that are coming up to the surface level of my conscious that help me to further pursue my objectives and goals at hand.

    I strongly believe that if I was not on the right frequency/wavelength levels of awareness, I would not be able to notice/recognize and grasp and absorb these ideas and concepts being presented to me from within.

    If you think about and visualize certain things with enough consistency and repetition without force, your subconscious can and will extract the information you need to achieve what you are looking to attain. It's then up to you to be in the right state of mindfulness and awareness to notice it, take it and implement it!

    You can fully take control of your life and your lifelong aspirations (external) through the power of the mind, amongst the even more important goals such as obtaining happiness and gratitude (internal).

    It's all from within baby!
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  9. Tapp001
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    If you're looking for a good, accessible read on how human behavior and the brain work with this sort of thing, read Stumbling On Happiness by Daniel Gilbert. Its an easy read, and will teach you a lot about your own brain's operating system.

    With techniques like the Secret, you are changing how your brain perceives the world, but the mechanism is psychological not quantum mechanical. To use a metaphor coined by Scott Adams, your brain is a teacup trying to process a fire-hose's worth of information, so your brain applies filters to give you the slice of information it thinks its important to you. So, if you are thinking "life is not fair and I am victim", you will notice victimization and and interpret events through this lens. If you are thinking "opportunities are everywhere", you will see opportunities. This is what the 3B chapter of Unscripted is all about; trying to install new, value-building filters.

    Daniel Gilbert sums it up as a deal between the eyes and the brain. They brain will be honest about what the eyes see, but the eyes look for what the brain wants. Confirmation bias in a nutshell. I've found that this little tidbit explains so much human behavior that used to confuse me.
     
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  10. Exhosa
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    Our subconscious mind is very powerful and everybody should read and learn about it.

    It’s very hard to get a positive outcome when you’re in a negative state of mind all the time if not outright impossible.

    So maybe that’s something we should focus on more specifically instead of LOA.
     
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  11. MJ DeMarco
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    MJ DeMarco Raving Lunatic Staff Member Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    I believe the mind is 90% of the game which compels the other 10%.(Kinda like diet is 90% and the gym is 10%)

    If the mind didn't have power, placebos wouldn't be required.

    Just because the LOA has been bastardized by a legion of gurus and marketers doesn't mean its foundational tenets are without merit. I believe in the mind's power to change our perception of the world around us and how we interact with it. I don't believe in hyped and hokey "laws" or "secrets" that dress-up simple cognitive reasoning and psychology.

    As mentioned above, if you believe you're a victim and the world is evil, that is all you will see. Your lazy brain and its confirmation bias does the rest...
     
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  12. TreyAllDay
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    Agreed- this is what it seems like.

    Here's where I am interested - affirmations and visualizations have worked for me, and a lot of business leaders talk about them. But I am wondering how much of this is selective filtering and human psychology at work. Yes - when you visualize achieving a goal or obtaining something, you start seeing opportunities where you didn't see them before. Your brain is likely just filtering out those opportunities you weren't open to before, and making decisions that align with your goal (without you realizing it), and then you can chalk it up to "the universe unveiling it's plan". In fact, even health wise - your body reacts to stress and can cause sickness from negative thinking.

    The way these guys explain it is when you fixate on something and imagine it you're putting out "energy" or "vibrations" and the universe attracts people and things that will help you to achieve it. This is the stuff that sounds off to me, but really who am I to say it's wrong as this field isn't the most studied one out there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  13. SquatchMan
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    I used to not believe in that stuff, but I've had too many "coincidences" occur over the past 5 years. These "coincidences" changed my mind on the topic. Also, look at the placebo effect.

    Anyway, won't go into detail about my thoughts. However, I believe everything can be explained scientifically. It doesn't appear the science has caught up in this case.

    All that said, you still have to work to make money. Sitting on your a$$ all day trying to will something into reality won't work. Combining the two together seems to be wise. It can't hurt.
     
  14. Kung Fu Steve
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    There's something to be said about positive intention...

    "this is what I want, this is who I'm going to be, this is what I'm going to do..."

    However...

    Affirmation without discipline is the beginning of delusion.
     
  15. Kung Fu Steve
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    If we really want to dive into it, the only challenge with Neuro Linguistic Programming is the word Programming.

    The idea that you would program someone permanently is just plain unrealistic. I could talk for DAYS on this!

    We teach "neuro associative conditioning" which might seem like semantics but the conditioning part reminds us that we're human and all need conditioning just like going to the gym and condtioning our physical bodies, we must conditions our mental and emotional states as well.

    I think you're spot on with affirmations -- it conditions the internal beliefs and psychology... but just like we believe "neuro associative conditioning" is the upgrade of NLP, incantations are the upgrade of affirmations.

    Only real difference is the intensity, strength, speed, and power behind the words. And using those affirmations with an empowering emotional state behind it.

    Not sure if it makes any sense as I type it out here on my phone but i think you're right. Splitting hairs and semantics sometimes.

    I was just saying all the affirmations in the world doesn't replace massive action
     
  16. Primeperiwinkle
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    Primeperiwinkle Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    I think many of us are circling around the same concept.

    Right actions are the fruit of right beliefs.

    I’d like to point out the importance of emotional ties.

    A person’s core identity (their belief about themselves) is really made up of their emotional attachments to specific ideas. The stronger, purer emotions like peace, acceptance, and courageousness create better fruit than lower negative ones like grief, lust, and anger. It’s the emotional stuff that ties us to certain actions.

    When you are genuinely loved, encouraged, believed in.. it’s like being filled up with energy. But you can’t get filled up if you’re packed to the brim with your own pain and self-limiting ideas.

    Many of the most amazing posts on this forum are examples of someone having a core self-limiting belief and hurting too much to even notice it. Older, wiser, more successful men come along and show the truth, some carefully, some kindly, some fiercely. They say, “you’re believing ___ and you can choose to believe _____ if you only try.”

    But I think it’s the generosity, the love, of perfect strangers taking their time to encourage that actually promotes the most change. A good friend is worth their weight in gold.

    If a person can narrow down exactly what their emotional attachment is to a self-limiting idea and let that emotion go.. then their values automatically start changing which then trickles down into their habits which then changes their life.

    For instance, a person feels helpless. Basically, he’s afraid. This means that he is attached to the fear of failure or fear of success or the feeling of victimness and RECOMMITS himself to that feeling every day. He believes he is a Helpless Person.

    Now, to confirm his identity he needs/wants the feared horrible thing to come to pass because if it does it will reconfirm him as a Helpless Individual. If he succeeds it will prove him wrong. He can’t be both victorious and a victim. He can’t have that. IHis identity is attached to being helpless. Who will he be if it’s not?!? <—- more fear.

    By letting this part of his identity go, by feeling his fear and letting it go, he opens up the possibility of something else defining him. He might not be ready to see himself as a Courageous Person, not yet.. but his core identity has been nudged into a slightly different shape. If he follows each iteration with activity he exercises his new identity and that exercise strengthens new ties.

    Could you let this feeling go?
    Would you let it go?
    When?

    Keep doing that and you get a different person because it’s our feelings about stuff that shape us.
     
  17. André Casal
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    André Casal Contributor

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    The Law of Attraction is a bad theory laced with technobabble (i.e. wrongly defined, and used, technical terms) to convey a sense of expertise and, therefore, persuade people into believing it.

    Check this Street Epistemology video
    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXnTA9irjo0


    I live by this principle: Any problem whose solution is not forbidden by the laws of physics can be solved given the right knowledge. Seek that knowledge and you'll get all the health, wealth, love and fulfillment you desire.

    I hope it helps :)
     
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  18. EasternCrane
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    EasternCrane Sit in the gap not the choice Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    @TreyAllDay

    I'm only addressing to you since you are the original poster.

    If you're interested in this topic on a serious level then visit the masterheartinstitute.com.

    Edit: buy Inner Reconciliation level 1 and 2 if you're serious about learning the truth. It's only $200 when you search for a certain deal. Level 3 is not about manifestation.

    I am not affiliated, but I can say it works as do most or some of their facilitators.

    he invented the modern day international banking system. He has a carnegie award or something for his work.

    He also studied under Mooji, the most prominent of spiritual teachers now.

    None of the naysayers are well versed in quantum physics themselves because they would be PAID big bucks right now to work on off-planet/inter-planetary travel initiatives spearheaded by tech companies and governments. They would be busy trying to make exotic material to travel to earthlike planets.

    and the spiritual "explanation" does not hinge on quantum physics. Those are "models" used to communicate to someone who still thinks in terms of the matter and the material world. If I use a plane to cross a continent, it doesn't mean I'm bound by the plane once I reach my destination. I may use a new model like a car to get to the city I want.

    This is attitude is not surprising though since this is a forum about "getting rich". Hint hint: extra-material extra matter and ego identified.

    None of the people who are half-heartedly supporting this stuff have taken it to it's logical conclusion. Spirituality is about the awakening of the heart truth where every answer and question arises and is fulfilled internally.




    TL;DR

    The law of attraction is a subset of the law of reflection.

    Reflection happens directly or indirectly. Reflection requires committment, faith, ritual, right attention, and non-attachment. All good habits to learn.

    You will never attain the sought goal of moving the mountain if your goal is to just get the mountain moved. That's why the law of attraction fails. The mountain is bigger than your perception.

    It's about seeing that you have a choice as to whether or not to move the mountain.

    Step on the otherside and the mountain looks good enough. There was no reason to move it. [incoming effects] [Damn an earthquake happened and the mountain moved 200 feet].

    Brush your hands off and realize that everything is perception. See that the flaw with law of attraction is its attachment to circumstance. Realize that you couldn't have moved the mountain anyway and it was pointless to do it. So the best thing to do was to just be cool with the mountain and probably go buy some construction stuff if your mind changed.

    There, I explained a lot without the scientific models. You probably don't understand it or think you understand it, but you don't know it. It's not something learned through referencing another object.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There is 1 earth but there are 7 billion worlds.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Edit:

    TL;DR

    Explaining how reflection and LOA works in life is ridiculously hard without drawing from matter models. It's how you get someone to actually believe.

    If you believe you're a total loser, no one can tell you to love yourself.

    That fat person who hates their self can't be convinced otherwise until they've been deconditioned.

    Any decent meditative/non-dual/zen system will focus on deconditioning the mind to the point where you can put in new habits. Then all of sudden the law of attraction works because you have new patterns.

    The new pattern comes without the OVERRATED pain blood sweat tears drama and ego identification that so many brag about when they get their results. One area of their life will be amazing, but 19 other areas will be crap and they still don't love their self at the end of the day.

    That's a 5-2 trade if I ever heard one.

    gain the world and lose your soul.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
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  19. TreyAllDay
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    Agreed with what many people say. I've realized over the last year that IDENTITY is the biggest part of this stuff (if we're talking purely psychological, quantum stuff aside).

    You can wish for things, do affirmations, etc. The key is your identity, which is often harder to mould than most think - if you don't identify as the person who can obtain what you want in life, your mind will subconsciously reject it. It takes time building up your confidence, small wins, and eventually you begin to identify as the person that can achieve what you want.
     
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  20. Blu H
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    I consider the law of Attraction to be a double edge sword! If you're a good person with Solid morals whose not self-destructive... but believe the

    Sidewalk or Slowlane will eventually bring "it" to you... then you just glued Yourself to where you are 4Life since you will lear to tolerate your shortcomings.

    Sheer passion and/or anger is better suited for change than the Feel Good LOA!
     
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  21. TreyAllDay
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    I have to admit though - there is a guy named John Assaraff who was involved with the secret who does some interesting research into this stuff.

    He talks about the concept of entanglement of quantum energy packets, Ervin Laszlo ran experiments where he had proven that blood cells 7 miles away from a subject they were removed from will still react to the same stressors. So anyway - his theory is that our "energy" transcends space, and this explains the law of attraction.
     
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  22. Kruiser
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    My sense is that the whole "quantum" aspect of the secret is complete garbage. I haven't done any research on it, but the personal development stuff I've read that mentions "quantum physics" makes little sense and I'm fairly certain an actual physicist would thoroughly and easily debunk it.

    That being said, I recently did the "perfect day" exercise that I learned from KungFuSteve and he learned from Frank Kern. Since then, I've found myself somewhat surprised by some of the actions I've taken and decisions I've made. Actions that lead me toward the perfect day I visualized. My subconscious is at work. So, yeah, of course you need to take action. Nothing happens if you don't. But the secret/perfect day exercise can help you take those actions by formulating a clear target in your subconscious. Or something like that. Anyway, I've found visualization exercises help me take action, sometimes in ways that surprise me.
     
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  23. Southpaw
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    Good point... But the "crap" aside, I am more convinced we are made out of energy. Energy can change forms...And it is indeed the truth, it's always at work... You helped a person...That is amazing.
     
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  24. Primeperiwinkle
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    My working theory is that any rule which lines up with a Universal Law will ultimately benefit whoever uses it. In scripture it says a generous heart will be blessed. EVERY single good decent extremely wealthy (millionaire or close to it) person I know is generous in their speech, their time, and their giving.

    Hard work produces efforts.. you reap what you sow.. is another one. It’s a fascinating subject to me because I’ve seen men fail horribly who tried to follow principles but didn’t change their core identity. They didn’t “believe” themselves to be a wealthy person or whatever.. like what the Rich Dad Poor Dad guy says.

    All of the books I’ve ever read that point to this seem chocked full of crap. I learn from them because I can find the nuggets that apply to me, that force me to come to grips with my own paradigms or negative habits. I like this convo.
     
    Xeon and TreyAllDay like this.
  25. LittleJohn
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    LittleJohn Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    The subconscious is amazingly powerful. Its helped me go from total turd to half turd over the years :) Tongue in cheek aside there is programming that can be done (affirmations, visualization, etc.) that plant seeds deep in the subconscious that I believe help manifest opportunities (for lack of better term) to get you where you are trying to go/do/be if that makes sense.

    Think and Grow Rich has long been one of my very favorites because it imprinted on me some of these concepts.
     
    persistencyiskey and TreyAllDay like this.

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