The Gas Pump thread

[AllenCrawley]

I personally would love the convenience of having someone pump my gas. I used to have my teenagers do it for me but they're all grown up now, lol. However, I would prefer a full-service station vs homeless or anyone not directly employed by the gas station doing it.

Gas stations make money from sales from their store. Not so much from gas. If the driver doesn't have to get out of the car will they be less likely to go into the store to purchase anything? I honestly don't think gas stations would go for this but who knows. Not to mention, how would you get paid if the driver is tipping in cash. That brings up another thing. How many people are still carrying cash?

 

[whiz]

 

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[Castillo]

I personally would love the convenience of having someone pump my gas. I used to have my teenagers do it for me but they're all grown up now, lol. However, I would prefer a full-service station vs homeless or anyone not directly employed by the gas station doing it.

Gas stations make money from sales from their store. Not so much from gas. If the driver doesn't have to get out of the car will they be less likely to go into the store to purchase anything? I honestly don't think gas stations would go for this but who knows. Not to mention, how would you get paid if the driver is tipping in cash. That brings up another thing. How many people are still carrying cash?

Hold up.

Is full serve for gas not a thing in the states?

Here in Vancouver, full serve is an option at maybe 1/10 pumps AND costs extra cents per litre.

Back in Saskatoon where I'm from they have full serve everywhere and it's free. They do your windows as well and they're paid employees. They are allowed to accept tips but you are never obligated to give them a tip.

This was a bigger thing in Saskatoon I believe, because in the winter time it got down to -40 - -50 Celcius..

I honestly thought this was everywhere, didn't know you guys didn't have it at all in murica

 

[MidwestLandlord]

So this person with the app is not an employee, nor are they in an independent contractor, and they are on private property handling dangerous expensive product around the general public? Sounds like every lawyer's and every department of labor auditors dream honestly.

1) General liability insurance does not cover full service without an additional rider

2) Workman's comp does not cover full service without an additional rider

3) Environmental mediation and mitigation insurance does not cover full service without an additional rider

4) Product insurance does not cover full service without an additional rider

5) Soda company contracts dictate a certain amount of advertising and a certain amount of impulse sales opportunities in order to get the kickbacks as outlined in the contracts. This is a huge part of most c-store companies bottom lines, and delivery to the car would violate these contracts (or not allow them to begin with)

6) Tobacco companies give discounts for volume, and give steep discounts for volume sold of new products, to entice the retailer to make purchasing new tobacco products easy. Tobacco companies hands are tied when it comes to marketing, so this impulse purchasing is a huge need for them, and they make that need reflect in the retailers bottom line.

7) Delivering tobacco products to the car would be a violation of age restricted product rules/laws*

8) I suspect that delivering alcohol to the car would be a violation of liquor license rules/laws...but regardless it would be a violation of "we card" rules same as tobacco (this means no vice products could be delivered which is a huge part of c-store sales)

9) Impulse items in general are a big part of c-stores' marketing strategies

10) I suspect that a full service attendant that is on the payroll at the "tipped employee" rate would not fly with most state level labor law enforcement departments

11) It is a violation of PCI-DSS (payment card industry data security standards) for an employee to handle the customer's card (yes, lot's of businesses still do this, yes they are in violation, yes they are risking their entire business and millions of dollars in a fraud lawsuit)

12) Most people don't carry cash to tip with, and credit card processors don't consider c-stores a "tipped" industry and do not allow cash withdrawals of that type (it would be considered a cash withdrawal as there is not product being sold and no standard service fee being applied)

The only way this would work IMO, is for it to be a contracted service that the retailer can hire. However, you cut out inside sales with full service (even with store item delivery) AND the average margin on gasoline is around 5 cents a gallon (which makes hiring a service to focus on gas sales foolish)

I agree that there is a pain point there, people don't like pumping gas, but I don't see a solution to that pain point with this idea.

*the US government has this weird line of thinking where they don't really consider the forecourt (gas pump area) part of the business "establishment". So in order to properly inform the public that "we card" as required by law, it requires the customer to physically enter the actual building, or make contact at a window. Otherwise the customer is not properly informed that they are buying an age restricted product and the retailer is in violation. Meaning...you couldn't warn them solely at the pump.

 

[sparechange]

So you are going to have groups of dirty and smelly people lounge around a gas station pumping gas while terrifying people that have children in they're car.

Sounds like a great plan.

In Vancouver there are bums everywhere and personally I've had a couple tweakers threaten my life.

Where can I invest $20 million? Send your bank number with the pin so the transfer can be sent.

 

[SDE]

In my country, petrol stations has salaried employees to pump the petrol. The salary is Rs. 12000 ($170 dollars) per month.

Except these employees no one is allowed to pump petrol.

Employees are available 24/7 on the pump. So the driver doesn't have to step out of the car.







I still don't know (never gave much thought,to be honest) how these stations profit as 97% of the stations in the country doesn't have stores attached to it.

This is how ALL the gas stations are run in my country.

 

[minivanman]

We have a place here in Texas called Buc-ee's. The one about 20 miles from where I live has 100 gas pumps! Most people have never been to a Buc-ee's because we only have them here in Texas. Inside the gas station is 68,000 square feet of pure joy for a kid (of all ages)! Candy, drinks, beef jerky, fudge, sandwiches, all kinds of stuff and they have a section for crafts of all types. And the bathrooms are 2nd to none. No touch, 33 urinals, I don't even know how many sit down stalls, probably 15+.... this place is incredible! So, a place like this probably couldn't benefit from having attendants but I think most all others could. For those living outside the states, our normal QT style gas stations have probably 20 gas pumps and about 7000 square feet of sales space, including a hot food made fresh station inside the store. There is a good reason a lot of @sses are fat in America!

 

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[csalvato]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is what I see happening in this thread

OP says "I have a solution to what I think is a problem"
The Market (aka everyone on this forum) says "I don't want your solution"
OP says "I'm moving forward anyway because I'm a go-getter"

Feel free to correct me, but isn't this how most people lose a lot of money and time. Isn't this opening a coffee shop across the street from a starbucks?

No, that's not how it works.

The market are people who are actually in a position to use/pay for the thing you put out there. This is, at best, a cross section of a very small segment of the market.

Many, if not all, products are faced with this kind of critique when just starting. Look at AirBNB for example. It was crazy to think you would rent a room in someone else's house. There were a million reasons why everyone said it couldn't and shouldn't work. But it did. The founders knew something the rest of the world didn't.

Only the OP knows if he knows something the rest of the world doesn't.

 

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[csalvato]

Totally agree with you here. Didn't mean to sound too negative. I'm constantly fighting this battle with my wife when discussing ideas (I'm telling her why it would work, and she's telling me why it wouldn't). Still trying to get my mindset right.

It's all good.

Just because someone is telling you a bad idea doesn't mean it's a bad idea. But, also, someone who is telling you a bad idea may actually be right. But then again, best ideas often seem laughable to most people at first glance.

So, how do you know?

Judgement.

And that comes with a lot of battle scars and experience. That's why anyone with any level of experience says to go and take action rather than thinking or reading too much - because that's where you learn the things that can't be taught.

Statistically speaking, you're likely to be wrong....horribly wrong...multiple times before you get a sense for it. And even really experienced entrepreneurs and investors can be lulled into bad moves.

Here's a really good podcast episode outlining how to evaluate the negative feedback, and how it can sometimes indicate that you're on the RIGHT path: Tristan Walker – Masters of Scale

 

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[BusinessNoob]

So you are going to have groups of dirty and smelly people lounge around a gas station pumping gas while terrifying people that have children in they're car.

Sounds like a great plan.

In Vancouver there are bums everywhere and personally I've had a couple tweakers threaten my life.

Where can I invest $20 million? Send your bank number with the pin so the transfer can be sent.

I'm going to put you in the "No" group. Thanks! Maybe college kids would suit Vancouver better?

 

[Royce2]

Ok so I think I have solved the problem of how the store would profit. There would be 2 options in the app when you place your "order". Option A: Quick gas and go. Option B: Full Service clean windows, air up tires, check fluids etc. Since this will take a few minutes, the driver will be free to shop inside while service is rendered.

This is turning into a good idea however,
When you are asking for that extensive amount of service. There is a small level of training needed to make sure they don't pour windshield fluid into the wrong place and so on. You will be surprised how many people never seen whats under the hood, let alone be able to open it.

Like @MJ DeMarco said in unscripted ; you will never know what the market needs until you start and work at it. The market ultimately decides whether your idea is a good one or not. People will think this idea will flop but you never know until you get it going!

 

[Kak]

We have a place here in Texas called Buc-ee's. The one about 20 miles from where I live has 100 gas pumps! Most people have never been to a Buc-ee's because we only have them here in Texas. Inside the gas station is 68,000 square feet of pure joy for a kid (of all ages)! Candy, drinks, beef jerky, fudge, sandwiches, all kinds of stuff and they have a section for crafts of all types. And the bathrooms are 2nd to none. No touch, 33 urinals, I don't even know how many sit down stalls, probably 15+.... this place is incredible! So, a place like this probably couldn't benefit from having attendants but I think most all others could. For those living outside the states, our normal QT style gas stations have probably 20 gas pumps and about 7000 square feet of sales space, including a hot food made fresh station inside the store. There is a good reason a lot of @sses are fat in America!

I LOVE Buccees! It is an event.

There is one between just about all the major cities in Texas, and some outliers!

Not only does the Madisonville location have about 100 pumps, as you have said, you pretty much have to wait for one.

Keep in mind folks, my gated neighborhood is probably more populous than Madisonville. Buccees draws interstate traffic like crazy.

 

[Royce2]

I LOVE Buccees!

I lived northern Houston for 3 months and loved it. However, all my family is up in Washington state so we moved back. Buccees is seriously insane, everyone that drives by the sign on the freeway you notice everyone in their car with their heads turned.

 

[Chapas]

I have not read the whole thread, and I am honestly not sure if the idea would work in the US, but I know that there must be a market for it. Lived in Moscow for the past couple of years. They are using it there. In fact the gas stations where people help pump gas for you is WAY more busy than the other gas stations. Not sure if it is because people are lazy or they just do not want to do it themselves, but the market is definately there. Not sure about your business model though, and not sure if the employees in Moscow are on a salary or not. Just noticed that everyone leaves tips. We usually left around the equivalent of 1-2 dollars in tips, and if every car is doing the same, these employees are basically earning quite a bit more than the average salary in Russia.

 

[Real Deal Denver]

The only times I'd like a full service attendant is when it is under 30 degrees outside!

Back in the day where there was full service and self service, how many of you would go into the self service to save money? I think most people would rather pay $1/gallon and pump themselves vs. $1.30/gallon for full service. On a full tank the difference would be about $5 which was alot when gas was $1/gallon.

I used to be that way too @biophase.

Let me tell you what I do now. My wife and I go to the movies a lot. When we go, it's the bucket of popcorn, two large drinks, Peanut M&Ms, and an ice cream sandwich for her. Sometimes a bratwurst if the smell gets to me too much. I figure I'm spending $30 more than I should. I'm getting ripped off. Worked over. I'm a sucker.

But you know what? I might be worth it. My wife is SURELY worth it! I can't tell you how happy my wife is to have a husband that splurges. Little things like that add up. Of course, her being happy, makes ME very happy.

I don't know why I turned out this way. I sure didn't used to be this way. I think it could have been a funeral of a close friend. I realized that our time is here today, and quite LITERALLY gone tomorrow. I have had so many things I could have done in the past, but scrimped out. No more. One project my wife undertook was to take down all the family pictures on a wall and devote that wall for only vacation pictures. Wow - what a difference. That is an inspiration that I see every day. It also reminds me of what I SHOULD be spending more of my time and money on.

New page in life. I grew up pinching pennies. I saved and tried to get ahead. I did without. Done with that plan - been there, got a T-Shirt. Now, I do things a lot differently. And by the way - many times when I get gas, I also get what I WANT to eat or drink - not what is cheapest. Life is so much more fun now!

One more thing you can do that will really make you feel great. When I get dollars change, I put them in my console next to my car seat. Many times I'm sitting at a stop light and there is a guy with a cardboard sign asking for money. I have those dollars in there just for that. I take out a couple and give them to him. I guarantee you that there is NOTHING that will make you feel better for a couple of bucks than that!

Splurge!

 

[minivanman]

I'm not a YES for the app, but I have no idea why a gas station does not bring back attendants. People are more lazy nowadays than any time in history! I have wondered for 10 years why the gas stations don't take advantage of this. Personally, I think college adults (no one in college is under 18 or not most and over 18 is not a kid), would be perfect. No skimpy clothes, nice, neat and clean. No idea why someone hasn't done this yet. Pull up to the pump, slide your card through the card reader while you sit in your car, the attendant fills it up and washes your windshield. The card reader asks if you want to tip or not or you can give them cash. Or, not too far in the future, like an Amazon store, it knows who you are when you drive up so it automatically charges you for your gas.

 

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[ZCP]

i have our intern fill up the gas tank in the company car while i am writing proposals for new work.

 

[minivanman]

The only times I'd like a full service attendant is when it is under 30 degrees outside!

Back in the day where there was full service and self service, how many of you would go into the self service to save money? I think most people would rather pay $1/gallon and pump themselves vs. $1.30/gallon for full service. On a full tank the difference would be about $5 which was alot when gas was $1/gallon.

We live in the lazy @ss generation, I don't think what happened years ago with paying $1 for no attendant vs $1.30 with an attendant has anything to do with 2019 and beyond. It's kind of like telling someone in 1974 to buy a bottle of water for $1 vs getting it for free from the faucet, you would have sold 0 bottles of water back then.

 

[Royce2]

Think I could even get a pet alpaca delivered to my door within a couple of hours if I really wanted to pay for it.

I will source you an alpaca and fly it first class myself. Just to say I did that. Nobody would believe me except you, and maybe this forum.

 

[Chapas]

I will source you an alpaca and fly it first class myself. Just to say I did that. Nobody would believe me except you, and maybe this forum.

You are the best. Cannot believe that I will finally get an alpaca for Christmas! What a story that would be haha!

 

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[ZCP]

approach three different gas station owners and see if they bite on the idea. then run it for them.
if it is a go just having attendants, start an attendant staffing company to then fund the app

 

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[MidwestLandlord]

I personally would love the convenience of having someone pump my gas. I used to have my teenagers do it for me but they're all grown up now, lol. However, I would prefer a full-service station vs homeless or anyone not directly employed by the gas station doing it.

Gas stations make money from sales from their store. Not so much from gas. If the driver doesn't have to get out of the car will they be less likely to go into the store to purchase anything? I honestly don't think gas stations would go for this but who knows. Not to mention, how would you get paid if the driver is tipping in cash. That brings up another thing. How many people are still carrying cash?

This ^^^

I think the actual solution to this pain point is to cut out the c-store entirely.

Gasoline delivery. An app where you punch in the location of your car (parking lot at work for instance), the app already contains your license plate number and automatic payment after your initial setup, and then they fill your car for you.

The problems with that are access to the gas tank (internal releases), gasoline margins, and government restrictions.

However, if the tech exists to let Amazon into your home for deliveries, the tech certainly exists to let someone securely into your car...it just has to be implemented. Government restrictions are a pain, but doable with current metering and transportation laws.

The biggest issue is margin. How much more per gallon would people pay?

 

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[MidwestLandlord]

I would like to focus on speed. Someone mentioned earlier about high pressure pumps imagine if we could have a customer in and out of the pump area with a full tank of gas in 30 seconds to a minute. The margins are going to be somewhat small, so volume would be essential. The more vehicles per hour the better of course.

Majority of states mandate 10 gallons per minute max on retail gasoline dispensing (I know because I ran 12-15 gallons per minute and got fined and shut down a bunch of times over the years...there's a reason my stations did 12,000 gallons+ per day each haha)

You'd save tons of time though by cutting out the driver doing the work...people move slow.

I spoke to my first c-store owner. She was happy to take .50c per vehicle fueled by the "pumper". As long as she didn't have to pay anything it was a enthusiastic yes.

She was happy to get paid 50 cents per car?

What are some options for dealing with the insurance issue Midwest?

They would have to be legit employees covered by the riders.

Or

They would have to be contracted independent contractors with their own insurance.

Or

They have to work for a service company that is contracted to do the work and has their own insurance.

Or

You'd have to just do it and hope nothing bad happens like an EPA level spill of 25+ gallons (been there), a fire (done that), customer or "pumper" getting fuel in their eyes (happens a lot), putting the wrong fuel in and damaging the engine (oh man, so many times), or someone driving off with the nozzle still in the car and yanking the dispenser off the island (it happens, even with breakaway connections required by law)

This stuff happens. My lawyer's new Mercedes is proof of that.

 

[minivanman]

Oh come on, he could do better than a Mercedes, they used to be special but nowadays everyone has one......

 

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[wade1mil]

Filling up is not a problem worth solving and it's chasing pennies in my opinion. However, driving to the gas station when I'm tired and I know I need gas tomorrow morning is a pain, and I MIGHT pay for someone to come to me and fill it up. How much I'm not sure, but probably not enough for it to be worth it for you as the business owner.

 

[Royce2]

Elon has already had the idea of just swaping the entire battery on a car

I remember that too and I honestly think it’s not the best idea. I would rather have a large auto charge pad just cover certain censors ona section of the car and charge it that way. Imagine like defibrillator pads that automatically extend

 

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[BusinessNoob]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is what I see happening in this thread

OP says "I have a solution to what I think is a problem"
The Market (aka everyone on this forum) says "I don't want your solution"
OP says "I'm moving forward anyway because I'm a go-getter"

Feel free to correct me, but isn't this how most people lose a lot of money and time. Isn't this opening a coffee shop across the street from a starbucks?

With all due respect, This "business model" is in the infantile stages, far from any money being invested. I think it intelligent to give the idea a chance to bloom. This attitude, IMO, is why so few people are able to drive the fastlane. Everything is too hard, so I quit before even spending a penny...

 

[sparechange]

There is a 0% chance this is going to work.. Who would work for a buck

 

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[BusinessNoob]

There is a 0% chance this is going to work.. Who would work for a buck

How many cars do you think would come through the gas pump in an hour? I bet they would earn much more than minimum wage.

 

[sparechange]

How many cars do you think would come through the gas pump in an hour? I bet they would earn much more than minimum wage.

Few dozen, but this idea is silly..