The Cult of Dan Lok - Brainwashed Student Lost $26,000 Testimonial

[Fox]

Hello people, I found this recent video and wanted to share it. Not much to say about it, just pissed at how far gurus will come to grab people's money. High-income skills they call them now, geez.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VDiM_PMmZA

That is a 57-minute video. Clicked into a few spots and it just seems like total rambling.

Can you give an actual breakdown?

Also on a side note, this dude is dressed horribly. If you are going to drop 5-10k on a sales program then at least try to wear a t-shirt that fits and take off your massive beanie.

---

Okay clicked to around 48 minutes in:

How they came up with the $26,000 lost figure is:
- Spent 2,500 on course.
- Spent 2k on upsell
- 6 months in his group at @200 a month
- Spent 1k on trip

Also added in 6 months without working for 2200 a month.

I don't know where they added in the other 6k.

So he took a course and then did nothing for 6 months.
Turns out he thinks the course sucks but... what did he do?

I am not a fan of Dan Lok at all but these gurus attract the exact people who are attracted to his instant-success-no-work-needed-marketing. The blame is equal on both sides.

---

These courses are hyped BS but people got to take a look in the mirror also. What were they hoping for and what were they going to do with what they learned?

This is like seeing someone buy a $5,000 treadmill, then not use it, and then complain the treadmill was a scam.
1) You didn't have to buy it. There are lots of other paid and free options.
2) You never even used it. Watching the treadmill instructional video doesn't count.

I wouldn't call this a scam - it is overpriced content you can get elsewhere for free or cheap.
I'd call it people making rash choices and then blaming others for their own lack of control/effort.

 

[Fox]

So it means you defend people who makes money on stupidity, desperation and/or naivety of others?

I am not defending Dan Lok. At all.

BUT... have some personal responsibility for your own actions too.

If you watch that video he is removing himself of all blame and personal responsbilty.

I see it as finding out someone spent money on a horoscope hotline - yes the hotline is the lowest of the low BUT someone also agreed to call them in the first place and fall for their BS.

My point is even when I make a terrible choice - I hold myself responsible for allowing it to happen.

This guy is giving all his control to other people (including the person interviewing him who is putting words in his mouth).

Just pointing out how he should reassess his own actions since if he doesn't he is doomed to repeat them.

Also, save me the "you are defending gurus" speech. It is clear I am not - just pointing out the mindset of "everyone else is to blame - woe is me."

 

[Jeix]

Hello people, I found this recent video and wanted to share it. Not much to say about it, just pissed at how far gurus will come to grab people's money. High-income skills they call them now, geez.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VDiM_PMmZA

 

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[biophase]

- Spent 2,500 on course.
- Spent 2k on upsell
- 6 months in his group at @200 a month
- Spent 1k on trip

So the question is, is the course worth $2500?
Is the upsell worth $2000?
Is the group worth $200/mo?
Was the trip worth $1k?

Let's say the answer is yes to all of them.

Then the question is, was the upsell done under pressure or in a shady manner?
Could he easily cancel the $200/mo group?
Why did he go on the $1k trip?

To me a scam, is when you purchase something and it is nothing like how it was presented. So maybe when he paid $2500 and he didn't get the value, they told him all the value was in the $2000 upsell?

But staying in a group for 6 months? After 1 month you should know whether its worth it or not.

Then going on a trip afterwards? WTF is up with his decision making?

 

[GrayCode]

When I was down and out a few years back making like 25k a year as a personal trainer I looked for help. I found:

Pat Flynn which led me to MJ DeMarco which led me to learn software engineering, which led me to John Sonmez which led me to Grant Cardone which by this time put me into retargeting campaigns of all the gurus. I found Ed Mylett (or he found me) which led me to Andy Frisella which led me to....Dan Lok, Gary Vaynerchuk you get the point.

But their free content was always enough and I was actually understanding what they were saying and it was changing my mindset. It worked. The problem is people become success zombies.

They think they need to hear the next podcast or buy the next course or etc. The reality is you just need to the F*cking work. Now I really only pay attention to:

MJ - because of the forum and he opened my eyes to scalability.
Grant Cardone - Because I like his swag and his message. Similar confidence.
Andy Frisella - Same kind of swag and mental attitude/fortitude.

I don't clamor for the next episode of anything for them and I only listen if I have truly free time (taking a sh*t, for instance)

I'm not even sure where I'm going with this except that I think that people who're comfortable call these people gurus mainly because they're too lazy to do the hard work or too thick-skulled to hear what they're actually saying.

Most people who get caught up like this guy did in the video was likely just super lazy. and when 8 months after Dan Lok's thing - he wasn't a millionaire he started bitching and calling him a worthless guru.

Also - No one is mentioning the dude interviewing him.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that on first glance he's like a guru-anti-guru. He is preying on those who fell through the cracks and hate these so called gurus and posts youtube videos for views to profit on ad dollars because he knows there are people who don't get it. So the guru-anti-guru is actually all the same as the rest.

The only difference is... He is making these people who don't want to do the actual hard work required for success feel good about their laziness by preying on their hate for the 'gurus'.

Thoughts? @biophase @Tourmaline @Andy Black

Also - If anyone thinks most of these guys haven't walked the talk, you're also missing the message of 'do the work'

Grant Cardone - 9 figure real estate business
Andy Frisella - 9 figure supplement/nutrition company
Gary V - 8-9 figure(?) marketing agency
Dan Lok - (not sure of his story, but I'm sure the message is similar)
John Sonmez - 7 figure blog
MJ DeMarco - 7-8 figure sofrware business

They all walk the walk. People are just not hearing the message. Do the work. Do the work. Do the work. Do the work.

 

[Andy Black]

That is a 57-minute video. Clicked into a few spots and it just seems like total rambling.

Can you give an actual breakdown?

Also on a side note, this dude is dressed horribly. If you are going to drop 5-10k on a sales program then at least try to wear a t-shirt that fits and take off your massive beanie.

---

Okay clicked to around 48 minutes in:

How they came up with the $26,000 lost figure is:
- Spent 2,500 on course.
- Spent 2k on upsell
- 6 months in his group at @200 a month
- Spent 1k on trip

Also added in 6 months without working for 2200 a month.

I don't know where they added in the other 6k.

So he took a course and then did nothing for 6 months.
Turns out he thinks the course sucks but... what did he do?

I am not a fan of Dan Lok at all but these gurus attract the exact people who are attracted to his instant-success-no-work-needed-marketing. The blame is equal on both sides.

---

These courses are hyped BS but people got to take a look in the mirror also. What were they hoping for and what were they going to do with what they learned?

This is like seeing someone buy a $5,000 treadmill, then not use it, and then complain the treadmill was a scam.
1) You didn't have to buy it. There are lots of other paid and free options.
2) You never even used it. Watching the treadmill instructional video doesn't count.

I wouldn't call this a scam - it is overpriced content you can get elsewhere for free or cheap.
I'd call it people making rash choices and then blaming others for their own lack of control/effort.

^^^

Also... see how many people in here are buying and raving about Masterclass dot com. It adds value and is a no-brainer for some at $200/year.

$200/year? What’s that a month? How much is Netflix per year at the moment?


I do feel sorry for the people getting fleeced. The gurus doing it know exactly what they’re doing (and I’m not saying Dan Lok is... I don’t know his stuff).

I have a particular distaste for the gurus and their cults. For the longest while it prevented me creating courses. Now I want to take them on.

 

[Roli]

How To Spot A Fake Guru

1. They are offering a free seminar/webinar with secret info that nobody knows!!!!

2. They ask you if you like money.

3. They ask you what you will spend your money on when you are rich.

4. They tell you that people who talk down about them are naysayers and losers.

5. Their content doesn't actually tell you anything at all, it just goes round and round telling you how great it is.

6. They make you aware of at least one picture/video of them in front of "their" Bentley/private plane/mansion.

7. They imply their rudeness and arrogance is what made them so successful, and encourage you to be the same.

8. They tell you that your friends and family who do not get on board with you doing their course are losers who don't understand and should be ditched.

9. There will always be one more, super secret, dynamite, money-printing course that once you take you will be as rich as Jeff Bezos.

10. They imply that it is spending money, and not working that will get you to accomplish your dreams.

11. When you analyse what actionable information you've learned on their courses and in their seminars, you will come up with a big fat zero.

12. Their followers come across as fanatical and/or unhinged.

13. When you search them online, all you can find is stuff on their courses and not anything about their previous business successes.

 

[Imgal]

I think there is responsibility on both sides in this, but speaking from the experience of spending a lot of money on courses that made no return, I know in my case it was for one of three reasons.

1. I never implemented out of fear and kept buying more to reassure myself I was doing something and would eventually have the completely failproof scheme

2. I realised I was going to need to do work and that felt too much like hard work so I gave up on this "easy money" scheme

3. The market for X felt saturated by the time I actually bothered to learn and I was too lazy to want to put the time in to differentiate myself.

Did I still spend time blaming the course provider? Of course. We always look to others first to blame, but I honestly don't think we can put the blame on them. I think there is a responsibility to state that you will need to put the work in to achieve these things and make clear of time and financial investments, but beyond that we're all adults and know by this point in our lives that if something sounds too good to be true then it definitely is.

Of course if people put out their courses promising something that's a different story.

 

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[Fastlane Liam]

I completely defend Dan Lok and all the other fake gurus

At the end of the day, 'fake' gurus are on the Fastlane and if anyone is stupid enough to spend $6k on a get rich quick course, the fake guru is doing a service to society by taking that money off their hands, because god knows where else they could spend that $6k on if they didn't find the course (drugs? criminal activity?)

These are grown men, age 21-35 (sometimes older) who have access to the internet, and have at least went through high school in the 1st world.

There is no elaborate emotional or sophisticated scheme/manipulation going on, at the end of the day, these people are DESPERATE, so they will fall for THE MOST BASIC OF TACTICS....hence why you see all these stupid ads like "I'm A Hot 19 Year Old College Girl Looking For Someone Like You To Sleep With" or "I'm Making $400,000 A Year Without Doing Any Work, Spend $1997 And Find Out How I Did It" ----- even a child could easily see through this BS, so why do internet marketers spend thousands of dollars on these stupid ads?

---> BECAUSE THEY WORK <---

Fake gurus only need ONE condition to thrive: a group of desperate, frustrated people looking for anything that can improve their status in society. These people do not need sophisticated emotional ploys to be influenced, they are so desperate that they will force themselves to believe in the story because they HOPE for a better status in life and to feel significant without doing the work required.

And if you guys are going to reply angrily to me for defending these fake gurus, what about your College Professors, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Popes, Priests, Parents, what about the millions of fake gurus in the world who scam you every day? Why don't you focus on them since they actually have a greater impact?

Internet gurus like Tai Lopez and Dan Pena are only notorious because of the nature of the things they are selling. Some of you guys really think (laughably) that there will be a day when most people will use their common sense and stop buying from fake gurus, WRONG.

Where there is a market of desperate, bored, lonely and frustrated individuals, there will always be an abundant supply of gurus ready to sell them on their hopes and dreams.

I don't know. Its not providing real value and being straight up predatory. Not a very ethical way to approach your products and customers. I understand your premise "it works", but basically scamming people? Nah that aint no fastlane, thats just evil.

 

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[Jeix]

Yeah I don't agree 100% with the way they calculated the amount of money he lost, they are trying to say that that's the total amount of money he spent *because* of the guru and not straight for the guru.

Here's a summary, I hadn't finished watching the video yet before posting it here.

Basically every course is an upsell for another course that's equally if not more expensive. You start with High Ticket Sale, then you get the Inner Circle, then you get Black Closers or something, then you get High Ticket Millionaire.
The guy bought the first three and then stopped.

He talks about how everyone around him at the course was absolutely mad for Dan, willing to buy anything before they even knew the price. Some people got their card declined because they were already in debt and were desperate, hoping for the payment to go through because once you reach that point you have no one else to turn to BUT the guru, and they know it.

There's this cult mentality where you call the others your brothers and sisters, the fake countdowns to get you to buy the next course and so on.

He knew some of the people there and knew they had no job or they were already heavily in debt but they kept on buying and buying. I have read similar things about Rich Dad courses where the first thing they teach you is how to get more credit so that you can buy more courses.

As far as I know, Dan used to actually be a real entrepreneur (that's how he got his wealth) and then became a guru after selling his business for millions.

Courses are like that grey line where you can't say you got scammed because you actually got to attend and heard people speak after paying money, so the service was delivered and you were just unhappy about it, that's where gurus march.

So yeah, that's that. The channel has more content on fake gurus and what they preach. Even though there's plenty of suggested google searches featuring "scam" as you search for the guru's name, every one of them appears to be very successful in regards to following on social media, Dan Lok has 1.4M followers on instagram for instance.

I guess they are just preying on the poor, the same people who play the lottery and slot machines, full time hope buyers.
It is true that in the end they have no one to blame but themselves, as everything is already out there and documented, they just refuse to do research before buying.

 

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[Ubu_roi]

These courses are hyped BS but people got to take a look in the mirror also. What were they hoping for and what were they going to do with what they learned?

This is like seeing someone buy a $5,000 treadmill, then not use it, and then complain the treadmill was a scam.
1) You didn't have to buy it. There are lots of other paid and free options.
2) You never even used it. Watching the treadmill instructional video doesn't count.

I wouldn't call this a scam - it is overpriced content you can get elsewhere for free or cheap.
I'd call it people making rash choices and then blaming others for their own lack of control/effort.

I'm not sure I can agree with that.

What's described here is deliberately exploiting people weaknesses and handsomely profiting from that process. If nothing else, it's ethically disgusting.

Is a 5K treadmill a scam? Of course not.

But let me ask you this: if a seller, specifically targeting obese people and selling a 250$ treadmill for 5k told you: "Look, just buy this very special treadmill, use it 20 minutes per week, and in three weeks or less you'll be in perfect shape; and if you also buy this awesome 2k per month online coaching sessions you'll become a model in a couple of months": would THAT be a scam?

Yes, of course you should look in the mirror, of course you should be way smarter than that. But still... I think those scammers are the lowest worms that pollute our planet.

 

[100ToOne]

I completely defend Dan Lok and all the other fake gurus

At the end of the day, 'fake' gurus are on the Fastlane and if anyone is stupid enough to spend $6k on a get rich quick course, the fake guru is doing a service to society by taking that money off their hands, because god knows where else they could spend that $6k on if they didn't find the course (drugs? criminal activity?)

No man.

Just because some people are easily manipulated due to life/genetic circumstances that doesn't give ANYONE the right to do so.

Even if at the end of the day we blame the victim, because it was his choice, the biggest blame should be on the people doing the manipulation.

I have many life stories from people I know who fall for this all the time, but it's not the place to write them here.

 

[Andy Black]

I've looked at Masterclass dot com.

What makes it legit, in your opinion, versus these gurus?

It's about courses, too.

Very good question.

Partly what @MoreValue said.

Partly because MJ, Fox, and other business people I respect have raved about it after buying it.

And partly because I can see their business model is to add insane value for your $200/year subscription, instead of that being the first rung in their “value ladder”. It looks to me that they’ve got the best of the best to create their courses, that they’re creating a productocracy, and that they intend to scale to be the Netflix of educational content.


A litmus test I use is:

“Would business owner MJ/Vigilante/Allen Crawley/Richard Branson buy this business course?”

If I think they’d laugh at all the up selling tactics etc then I know the course isn’t aimed at business owners. If it’s not B2B then it’s B2C, and I don’t want to be fleeced as their Consumer.

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

and yet, we're judging Dan Lok and the like based on what they could do out of malice. But the reality is most of their free content is actually useful and it's likely just the person listening who has a mindset problem. Case and point the guy giving the bad review.

We’re not talking about free content.

I’m judging him based on what he has done and what has happened.

DL has manipulated desperate people into buying his products using fear.

DL has used the same tactics cults use to keep people believing in him.

DL routinely causes conflict between the believers and skeptics in his group, even encouraging people to run them out.

DL watches people spend their last dime on credit cards to buy his products, and even tells you to raise your limit to afford it.

DL makes outlandish claims about his programs that lie just on the edge of legality.

DL and his team silence/remove any bad review or doubt in his group.

These are not traits of a decent human being or business man. Dan Lok knows full well what his reputation is and continues it anyway, either for money or a dopamine fix.

A YouTuber with 30k subs does not compete on any level with these gurus.

The biggest lesson Dan Lok can teach you is to watch what he does, and to trust but verify.

 

[Einfamilienhaus]

I wouldn't call this a scam - it is overpriced content you can get elsewhere for free or cheap.
I'd call it people making rash choices and then blaming others for their own lack of control/effort.

So it means you defend people who makes money on stupidity, desperation and/or naivety of others?

Maybe you have misunderstood from this video how people can get in such a situation.

I think he is not just an impulsive buyer who cant hold his money but his is a victim of highly manipulative frameworks.

His state of mind was the same like from everybody else who buys a course. Getting some valuable tools to work with. But More important is the intention of the creator. Do you want to create value for the people who trust you or do you use highly manipulated levers to filter out who is the most vulnerable and desperate you can lead into more expensive upsells with less value? Not even mentioning how easy it is to use frames like "We are a family" "Brothers and Sisters" and "The others are on low Mindset". If you hear it oftentimes you start to believe you are "Special" (or Dan makes me feel Special) and you separate yourself from others who are not "Special" and search for other special people and find them "Inside the Family". Your own social circle gets exchanged by a new one "The Family". Then it is easier to make the next step entering a "Secret Society", "Inner Circle" or call it what ever and from this moment you start to lose the reality. You get radicalised.

Other people outside "The Family" will call it Crazy to signup for a membership you have to pay 2.5k monthly. Inside "The Family" you see how your "friend" Paul (another victim of manipulative levers) is doing it and it becomes normal for you. What is right or wrong is not anymore based on the moral values of the general society or your own rather than on the moral values of your "Family" leaded on the moral values of one person. The Guru.

This Guru is for some people inside "The Family" a real God. This Guru Guy seems to filter out with his upsells who is the real fanatic. Because you always need some fanatics who have diminished conscious behaviour within a group. Because these are the guys who make insanity inside a group looks normal. As long your own perspective is subject to this group you cant find out. You have to think objective. Especially when we human beings are always looking for others what is normal or not. It is also more difficult to leave this Insanity Club.

But how can people get in this situation? How can somebody get from a normal YouTube Viewer to a fanatic?

The first step of manipulation is always your own approval to open yourself up for "New Ideas". If your are really desperate for something like Health, Money or Women....you will automatically listen more to others. Especially for Gurus. And now comes the dirty part. Especially people who are in a desperate situation about something and have a difficult psychological state are the biggest fanatics inside this guru scene. Think about why they used the frame "Imagine: If you stand on a cliff and Dan stands behind you. Would you jump?" It not only a marketing tool to crack the shotgun and see who reacts. It is also to prepare the people emotionally to take a risk. Like signing up in their course without even knowing how much it costs (Jump over the cliff. Trust Dan). It is more fatal that there a people inside this group who have imagined this scenario Jumping over the cliff. Maybe killing themselves and are happy about it because "Dan said so"

I feel sorry for all of those people inside his groups because the more you go to the top of his insanity upsell groups the more you will find people who are the most lost one.

I'm happy for this guy that he could leave this dirty place and I wish him the best. And this Dan Guy is a good example to remember use how much responsiblity we have towards our customers to improve their lifes or to make them slaves to our pockets.

 

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[Tourmaline]

@Tourmaline exactly what I was talking about the other day

There's plenty to learn here. One huge lesson is to never have only one guru/mentor you listen to. That is how you get sucked in.

Does this mean you cannot learn anything from Dan Lok's story, or his sales stuff?

I'm not honestly sure why anyone would bother spending money on his class when it's on youtube for free. I've gone through much of it too, and plenty of it is useful.

The dude in the video learned a bunch of sales things and then expected a job to be handed to him? And when it wasn't he what? Doesn't do anything? It's funny how that is now 100% Lok's problem and fault.

Is it a flaw of the High Ticket Closing system that he doesn't spoonfeed you exactly what to sell?

I'd hardly call it a cult. He just sucks people in with simple wordage. I don't know of any lingo in his system. Unlike MJ's system which has more lingo created by him(Sidewalk, Slowlane, Fastlane, CENTS, etc). Of course MJ's system is on another plane as MJ isn't try to get you to buy thousands of dollars of courses, but hey I'm an INSIDERS and am going to the Summit so..........................................................................................

 

[Fox]

Also - No one is mentioning the dude interviewing him.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that on first glance he's like a guru-anti-guru. He is preying on those who fell through the cracks and hate these so called gurus and posts youtube videos for views to profit on ad dollars because he knows there are people who don't get it. So the guru-anti-guru is actually all the same as the rest.

Ya, I hinted at this - this same "victim" is getting played again here.

This guy interviewing him plays him like a fiddle to make him look like the biggest idiot possible. He puts words in his mouth and leads him around to make the best "outrage" video possible.

Since this guy, "the victim", has a mindset of someone else is to blame it also means he places his own control in the hands of other people. If you blame other people for things that go bad all the time it all means you rely on other people for things to go well also. You can't have one without the other - either you accept control of yourself or you don't.

That is why this interviewer can play him so easy, the same way Dan's sales funnel did - he has a mindset of zero internal control. He lets others decide what to do/think/feel.

 

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[Fox]

Mike Winnet, which many people here like and was a successful entrepreneur who sold his company and now has a YouTube channel exposing gurus?

Maybe MJ should redact all the guru bashing in his book for fear of being an “anti-guru”.

Not what I was saying at all - you went off on your own mental tangent there.

I will just remove that section and write it here in more detail.

@Lex DeVille has a great anti-guru thread, and of course, MJ has covered this as well. I am fully for that (obviously - I call people out on this all the time also) but this is just a small percentage of what these guys do. The rest of their content is extremely positive and actionable advice.

I am referring to channels that are all about "exposing" gurus/other stuff. I just think it is ironic - they have clickbait titles and thumbnails, they are edited to create max outrage, and they go so far the other way I find them equally hard to trust.

That is just my personal preference though. I also don't like news channels, newspapers, outrage media etc. I like keeping up to date but I don't like someone trying to play me emotionally - which is what I feel a lot of these "anti-guru" videos are designed to do.

There is a big difference between someone occasionally calling things out cause they have become aware of something versus someone who is doing it all the time and is building an audience based just around that.

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

That is a 57-minute video. Clicked into a few spots and it just seems like total rambling.

Can you give an actual breakdown?

Also on a side note, this dude is dressed horribly. If you are going to drop 5-10k on a sales program then at least try to wear a t-shirt that fits and take off your massive beanie.

---

Okay clicked to around 48 minutes in:

How they came up with the $26,000 lost figure is:
- Spent 2,500 on course.
- Spent 2k on upsell
- 6 months in his group at @200 a month
- Spent 1k on trip

Also added in 6 months without working for 2200 a month.

I don't know where they added in the other 6k.

So he took a course and then did nothing for 6 months.
Turns out he thinks the course sucks but... what did he do?

I am not a fan of Dan Lok at all but these gurus attract the exact people who are attracted to his instant-success-no-work-needed-marketing. The blame is equal on both sides.

---

These courses are hyped BS but people got to take a look in the mirror also. What were they hoping for and what were they going to do with what they learned?

This is like seeing someone buy a $5,000 treadmill, then not use it, and then complain the treadmill was a scam.
1) You didn't have to buy it. There are lots of other paid and free options.
2) You never even used it. Watching the treadmill instructional video doesn't count.

I wouldn't call this a scam - it is overpriced content you can get elsewhere for free or cheap.
I'd call it people making rash choices and then blaming others for their own lack of control/effort.

I watched the whole interview. Your assessment is missing a few details from the interview:

The Dan Lok sales system basically relies on two things:
a) Making these people buy into the guru bullshit to the point where they have no one to rely on but Dan Lok;
b) Then offering them the solution for their next step as an upsell (at which point they either pay him or fail).

Throughout the first program they were given the impression that they'll get help finding jobs, etc. Then when it comes to finding a job - the final part of the first course - they're not offered the job. Instead, they're offered the opportunity to pay extra to get into the next course which will help with that.

It's an endless spiral that continues until one of three things happens:
1) The person goes bankrupt and can't afford to spend more money on "courses".
2) They end up working for Dan Lok
3) They realize what's happening and quit.

#2 is the only scenario with a positive payoff. It was even mentioned in the interview that certain employers refuse to hire Dan Lok's students because they were poorly trained.



Also, I think your downplaying of the opportunity cost as not a real cost is wrong.

If someone took your website building course, and you taught them how to build a 1990's website, convinced them that it was going to make them ultra-rich, and they then spent 6 months trying to sell websites that would never sell, then I don't think the blame is on them in that 6 months as it is on the individual that tricked them into believing the course. (FOR THOSE READING: @Fox's course is one of the few that I've heard good things about and that's worth spending the money on; I'm just creating an example here)

Opportunity cost is a real cost that people fail to calculate in with these gurus.

If you choose the wrong guru (95%+ of them), then you'll end up wasting 6 months to 10 years of your life on pure bullshit. That's why these courses are so harmful. It's not just the money lost, but the time and self-esteem.

 

[Andy Black]

If you’re creating courses then def create them the way Mark Dawson does. He’s in the self publishing space and is the most honest course creator you can find. Somehow he still earns good money.

Thanks for the heads up. I did a quick search to see how he comes across just from the content found on Google.

It’s interesting how I trust people a bit more when the video production isn’t perfect and they’re wearing headphones and the lighting isn’t perfect. (Although I’m aware some people may well do that deliberately to be more “authentic”.)

I even discussed this with a friend recently. I was advised by someone to not record my YouTube videos with my “astronaut headphones” on, how that advice stopped me recording for a few weeks, how I think that was the wrong advice because I use the headphones when I’m working so should do exactly what I do when I’m working.

I haven’t watched Mark Dawson at all yet. It’s interesting how I’m curious just from seeing the thumbnails of his YouTube videos:





Interesting how these thumbnails instill me with trust:




Interesting how these thumbnails do the opposite:

 

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[Tourmaline]

And if you guys are going to reply angrily to me for defending these fake gurus, what about your College Professors, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Popes, Priests, Parents, what about the millions of fake gurus in the world who scam you every day? Why don't you focus on them since they actually have a greater impact?

 

[Jeix]

I completely defend Dan Lok and all the other fake gurus

At the end of the day, 'fake' gurus are on the Fastlane and if anyone is stupid enough to spend $6k on a get rich quick course, the fake guru is doing a service to society by taking that money off their hands, because god knows where else they could spend that $6k on if they didn't find the course (drugs? criminal activity?)

This is a very ignorant statement. Why do you think that anybody desperate enough to buy a guru course would otherwise use that money on drugs or criminal activity? It's true that desperate people fall prey of criminals and their schemes more easily but that's because they have no one else to turn to that (they think) can help them. Saying that it's either gurus or drugs is complete fiction, also the two things are very, if not completely, unrelated.
Saying "they deserve it" when you have no idea who "they" is a very unrespectful way of jumping to conclusions.

And if you guys are going to reply angrily to me for defending these fake gurus, what about your College Professors, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Popes, Priests, Parents, what about the millions of fake gurus in the world who scam you every day? Why don't you focus on them since they actually have a greater impact?

You are right, there are bigger fake gurus out there, but you are missing the point.
We're not saying "kill all gurus" or "put all gurus in jail", we are just not advocating what they do.
I know that people will always fall for this stuff eventually, but isn't it the duty of all to help these people be better informed on what they are getting into before they do (which is what that youtube channel is doing)?
It's the same reason why we educate our children on drugs. Does that stop them from doing them? Not really. So what? Should we stop educating them and defend what the dealers are doing because who knows where else these horrible people would spend their money on?
Ridiculous.

 

[DeletedUser0287]

I've looked at Masterclass dot com.

What makes it legit, in your opinion, versus these gurus?

It's about courses, too.

People that actually walked the talk.

 

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[GatsbyMag]

So it means you defend people who makes money on stupidity, desperation and/or naivety of others?

Maybe you have misunderstood from this video how people can get in such a situation.

I think he is not just an impulsive buyer who cant hold his money but his is a victim of highly manipulative frameworks.

I completely defend Dan Lok and all the other fake gurus

At the end of the day, 'fake' gurus are on the Fastlane and if anyone is stupid enough to spend $6k on a get rich quick course, the fake guru is doing a service to society by taking that money off their hands, because god knows where else they could spend that $6k on if they didn't find the course (drugs? criminal activity?)

These are grown men, age 21-35 (sometimes older) who have access to the internet, and have at least went through high school in the 1st world.

There is no elaborate emotional or sophisticated scheme/manipulation going on, at the end of the day, these people are DESPERATE, so they will fall for THE MOST BASIC OF TACTICS....hence why you see all these stupid ads like "I'm A Hot 19 Year Old College Girl Looking For Someone Like You To Sleep With" or "I'm Making $400,000 A Year Without Doing Any Work, Spend $1997 And Find Out How I Did It" ----- even a child could easily see through this BS, so why do internet marketers spend thousands of dollars on these stupid ads?

---> BECAUSE THEY WORK <---

Fake gurus only need ONE condition to thrive: a group of desperate, frustrated people looking for anything that can improve their status in society. These people do not need sophisticated emotional ploys to be influenced, they are so desperate that they will force themselves to believe in the story because they HOPE for a better status in life and to feel significant without doing the work required.

And if you guys are going to reply angrily to me for defending these fake gurus, what about your College Professors, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Popes, Priests, Parents, what about the millions of fake gurus in the world who scam you every day? Why don't you focus on them since they actually have a greater impact?

Internet gurus like Tai Lopez and Dan Pena are only notorious because of the nature of the things they are selling. Some of you guys really think (laughably) that there will be a day when most people will use their common sense and stop buying from fake gurus, WRONG.

Where there is a market of desperate, bored, lonely and frustrated individuals, there will always be an abundant supply of gurus ready to sell them on their hopes and dreams.

 

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[PizzaOnTheRoof]

I completely defend Dan Lok and all the other fake gurus

At the end of the day, 'fake' gurus are on the Fastlane and if anyone is stupid enough to spend $6k on a get rich quick course, the fake guru is doing a service to society by taking that money off their hands, because god knows where else they could spend that $6k on if they didn't find the course (drugs? criminal activity?)

These are grown men, age 21-35 (sometimes older) who have access to the internet, and have at least went through high school in the 1st world.

There is no elaborate emotional or sophisticated scheme/manipulation going on, at the end of the day, these people are DESPERATE, so they will fall for THE MOST BASIC OF TACTICS....hence why you see all these stupid ads like "I'm A Hot 19 Year Old College Girl Looking For Someone Like You To Sleep With" or "I'm Making $400,000 A Year Without Doing Any Work, Spend $1997 And Find Out How I Did It" ----- even a child could easily see through this BS, so why do internet marketers spend thousands of dollars on these stupid ads?

---> BECAUSE THEY WORK <---

Fake gurus only need ONE condition to thrive: a group of desperate, frustrated people looking for anything that can improve their status in society. These people do not need sophisticated emotional ploys to be influenced, they are so desperate that they will force themselves to believe in the story because they HOPE for a better status in life and to feel significant without doing the work required.

And if you guys are going to reply angrily to me for defending these fake gurus, what about your College Professors, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Popes, Priests, Parents, what about the millions of fake gurus in the world who scam you every day? Why don't you focus on them since they actually have a greater impact?

Internet gurus like Tai Lopez and Dan Pena are only notorious because of the nature of the things they are selling. Some of you guys really think (laughably) that there will be a day when most people will use their common sense and stop buying from fake gurus, WRONG.

Where there is a market of desperate, bored, lonely and frustrated individuals, there will always be an abundant supply of gurus ready to sell them on their hopes and dreams.

You sound like the kind of guy to keep wrong change that’s in your favor.

Because F*ck it it’s the cashiers fault they shouldn’t have f*cked up.

If you defend people that take advantage of others regardless of mental state, then you have no businesses being in business.

 

[wetwaterdrop]

I was part of season 1 of the High Ticket Closer program. I can tell you it is for sure a 100% scam and I'll share my experience.

The guys who were interviewed by Coffeezilla certainly do come off as marks.

Purchasing the program was my fault, but I can only take so much credit for someone lying to me.

I watched a bunch of Dan Loks youtube videos, I've seen a lot of his copywriting work - both of which are great. (I did a small bit of copywriting myself).

His martial arts videos are also very sound (I did a decade of martial arts and full contact fighting).

He passed the sniff test on the martial arts front, and the copywriting front, why not give this high ticket sales program a shot?

There are 3 coaches total, Dan, Kayvon, and Desmond.

There are going to be a good deal of students, and we are all striving for the same thing-financial success.

You are the 5 people you surround yourself with...

When I did the program, it made some really fantastic promises that I was stoked about...

1. There aren't any upselles

2. After you complete the program, you'll be able to apply for a position on Dan Loks sales team, and even if you don't make that, Dan has TONS of contacts who NEED high-ticket sales people, so you have a pretty big shot at getting a job with one of them.


A lot of you guys are real moody about how people deserve to be scammed for taking a "get rich quick" scheme... well the program promised a job you would land ranging from 40-100k a year... I don't know about you but nothing about that screams get rich quick to me.

Most the people in the program just wanted to learn sales and be around like minded people, some people of course bought the upsells when they maybe should have "known better".

I personally liked the idea of working from home and building a new skill set. Most of my money was made in construction and I have a lot of injuries so finding something that can pay the bills and not bust my body up anymore was ideal.


There is a lot I could say about this but for brevity let me hit the main points:

One of the "Home work" assignments is to make a video review of your experience in HTC so far and upload it on youtube. This is suppose to get you comfortable with talking to a camera etc... but really its just to lure more people in...

Now, if you're trying to get on the sales team at the end of the program are you going to leave a bad review?

When I was on my phone call to interview for a sales position (with Kayvon, a coach who since Dan Lok had a falling out with and literally declared "war" on). Cut me off and asked me why I hadn't applied to the Inner Circle (4k upfront payment... but of course if we got in a few weeks, 2.5k... 200/month.)

My first thought was "Well, you guys said there were no upsells" but instead I said another truth... "Well, I took out two credit cards and I worked 2 jobs to pay bills and get this course, I'm tapped out".

At which point, I kid you not - he literally laughed at me.



I graduate the "program" and start hitting up influencers and coaches etc... trying to land my first job. I mean, there are high-ticket sales jobs everywhere and hardly anyone is qualified so I should at least be able to land something small.

I talk to a few people, no bites... but then I get his guy who does his own high ticket sales stuff... he doesn't have a course but he matches salesmen with businesses... we do a role-play on the phone and long story short he shreds me, basically saying hes glad I hustled but what I learned is trash.

It's been about 2 years since I took the program and if you have HTC on your facebook or Linkedin it is now a HUGE red flag. HTC members were being banned from sales groups back in season 1.

Now, one thing they talk about in the course is that one of our responsibilities as a closer is to "gate-keep".

Meaning, if you are closing for a program, you are only going to let people in who you think have a high chance of success.

If I had to guess, many, many people who took Dan Loks course failed in finding work. I don't think there would be droves of people contacting me on Linkdin telling me for a fee they will help me find a job since they noticed so many "HTC" students are unable to find work.

Did they do a good job vetting people for their program if that is happening? Or did they just scam people knowing it wasn't a real thing?


If Dan spent as much time and effort making a real course as he does putting out youtube videos he could probably make something great, but from where I'm sitting hes just a huckster.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

You trouble makers get back to work!

 

[Process]

Sales courses are stupid if they don't emphasize it is a numbers game based on putting the right offer in front of the right people.

You could be a smelly manure covered farmer, but making 100 calls to find the 1 yes will still work.

As you get more polished, you can increase to 50 calls for 1 yes or even 50 calls for 2 yeahs.

Experience will teach you the best times to call and the right tones. The epiphanies will only come if you truly redline it and execute beyond your comfort.

Making 500 cold calls to businesses in a week will teach you a ton about sales. Every 50 calls or so you can pivot based on the objections and feedback.

A course can only slightly shorten the learning curve.

__________________

Direct response is like cold calling without having to spend the time. Instead, you spend the money to find the needles in the haystack.

Experience will teach you how to keep your costs down, and how to target people. But you will have to pay your dues by getting enough feedback and untangling your pipeline step by step.

Sure there are tons of sexy techniques. But buyers are buyers and warm leads are best followed up with diligently.

Being clear, relevant and genuine are the best ways to keep your downside down.

 

[Ubu_roi]

I totally understand that the "victim" should take full responsibility in falling into the trap. This is beyond doubt.​

But I also think that some of you are misguided in thinking that an ethically wrong practice can make a sound business.​

​

@Kevin88660: A coffee is a coffee: if I want to pay 10$ for it, I'm aware I'm paying for the guy who makes it, for the real estate of a nice shop, the furniture, the cleaning, the brand, the experience. I find nothing wrong into that, as long as the seller doesn't imply that drinking coffee will make me sleep well, keep me in perfect shape, and live happily ever after.​

​

@biophase : The guru object of this conversation doesn't promise you'll become rich, but just "implies" it (have a look at his web site). It's probably not illegal, but he has built a system that makes its profits from un-informed people, giving very little value for the price he asks. This may be legal and as you say the "victim" may be as responsible as the guru, if not more. Still, don't you find it a disgusting way to make business? Especially you that gave so much value here in this forum?​

​

I realise talking about ethics is a slippery path: but I just cannot stand these fake guys and their practices.​

 

[James Klymus]

I stopped paying attention to the whole guru scene earlier this year. And every time I see this on the forum, its akin to us gossiping about the Kardashians.

I realized that none of these people have any effect on my life, business, or relationships so I stopped listening. It was a distraction from my actual work and goals.

And it's the same message over and over again, and when a different person comes along, it's their version of the same message. I'm jaded at this point, and I've heard it all.

Plus, I've probably lost more money than this guy on "guru coaching" and courses, it doesn't feel good to know i was naive, but I learned and am better for it. I haven't watched the video, but If the guy is so upset about losing his money like that, then he probably isn't cut out for entrepreneurship anyways.

 

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