The Benefits of College (other than making you more likely to get a job)

[Aim_Goal]

Hello Fastlane Forum members. This is going to be my first post and I do so apologize for adding yet another post regarding college on this forum (I can almost hear someone yelling in my ear for why not to search in previous posts), though I briefly searched if there is a post similar to how I am going to put it but couldn't find one.

Though I am on the balance whether to finish college, stop, or pause for a temporary time like many others. I want to know what are the benefits or things learned in college that are or were useful and helped you in your entrepreneurial career.

For us, those in the balance of either going/continuing college or not, we should already know by now we are the ones making the decision(s), not those who answer us on forums since there will be so many opinions due to to each having their own unique "tool box set" of experiences. A better question is how college would benefit me if there are any other ways to get those benefits without the use of college education or degree.

Benefits (for the entrepreneur) I see in going through college would be:

-Gaining connections (close relationships) to possible future successful people who could be beneficial in your entrepreneurial career.

-A degree could be useful when working in contract/freelancing jobs such as coding and programming.

The reason I am asking this question because I really am on the verge of quitting or atleast pausing my college education, to be quite honest I've been in community college for 3 and a half years and about to transfer to university next semester but it seems to me I learned and developed much more through online resources (such as for code, politics, religion), youtube videos, and books for learning and mindset (such as TMF and UnScripted ) in the past 2 or 3 months than I ever did in the last 3 years, heck even family and friends are surprised and impressed how much I changed after I disconnected from everyone for a month. But the worry is the possibility of a benefit that I cannot see from where I am right now but experienced entrepreneurs who either did or did not complete (or even didn't go to college at all) college could know since they've already walked the walk

Please do tell all the benefits you find and also alternatives to where you could possibly gain those benefits elsewhere.

again I apologize for asking a possibly repetitive question but I thought it could be one that could be for many members to benefit from instead of being situation specific.

Best of regards to everyone, and especially to you MJ, you've helped me to solidify and channel all thoughts that I had and just didn't know what to do with them and I'm sure many feel the same.

 

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[WJK]

Hello Fastlane Forum members. This is going to be my first post and I do so apologize for adding yet another post regarding college on this forum (I can almost hear someone yelling in my ear for why not to search in previous posts), though I briefly searched if there is a post similar to how I am going to put it but couldn't find one.

Though I am on the balance whether to finish college, stop, or pause for a temporary time like many others. I want to know what are the benefits or things learned in college that are or were useful and helped you in your entrepreneurial career.

For us, those in the balance of either going/continuing college or not, we should already know by now we are the ones making the decision(s), not those who answer us on forums since there will be so many opinions due to to each having their own unique "tool box set" of experiences. A better question is how college would benefit me if there are any other ways to get those benefits without the use of college education or degree.

Benefits (for the entrepreneur) I see in going through college would be:

-Gaining connections (close relationships) to possible future successful people who could be beneficial in your entrepreneurial career.

-A degree could be useful when working in contract/freelancing jobs such as coding and programming.

The reason I am asking this question because I really am on the verge of quitting or atleast pausing my college education, to be quite honest I've been in community college for 3 and a half years and about to transfer to university next semester but it seems to me I learned and developed much more through online resources (such as for code, politics, religion), youtube videos, and books for learning and mindset (such as TMF and UnScripted ) in the past 2 or 3 months than I ever did in the last 3 years, heck even family and friends are surprised and impressed how much I changed after I disconnected from everyone for a month. But the worry is the possibility of a benefit that I cannot see from where I am right now but experienced entrepreneurs who either did or did not complete (or even didn't go to college at all) college could know since they've already walked the walk

Please do tell all the benefits you find and also alternatives to where you could possibly gain those benefits elsewhere.

again I apologize for asking a possibly repetitive question but I thought it could be one that could be for many members to benefit from instead of being situation specific.

Best of regards to everyone, and especially to you MJ, you've helped me to solidify and channel all thoughts that I had and just didn't know what to do with them and I'm sure many feel the same.

I have 4 college degrees, including my Juris Doctor degree (I went to law school). I haven't used any of those degrees the way that the universities thought I should. BUT, I use the information and skills I learned every day of my life. And I proved that I don't quit!

That being said, I'm not sure I would go get those degrees today. They don't have the same weight as they once had. With the advent of the internet, Kindle and INDY books, I can get any information that need on demand. I am continuing my education everyday.
During the last month, I have learned Word Press. I have built a new web site. This week I'll be emailing out about my new business and real estate blog -- no, I'm not selling anything -- just presenting ideas and information...
Welcome to Wenda's Business Blog - WJK Business Buzz Blog
I know that building a web site is no big deal for some of you young pups, but it's been a big stretch for an old dog like me. If I wasn't always educating myself, I wouldn't have been able to learn Word Press and keep on trying. Not only that, I'm getting to use my writing skills and add my silly artwork.

 

[lewj24]

I also forgot to add if you go to college everyone thinks you are god.

"Oh my son got his bachelors degree at ISU!"

"I graduated with an MBA summa cum laude."

"My grandson is becoming a doctor!"

"My buddy is becoming a pharmacist."

"Did you hear so and so got engaged to a future lawyer?"

"I have my Phd. Please, call me Dr. Joe Blow."

"My daughter got a full ride to play softball."

Status is a big deal.

 

[lewj24]

You guys keep saying you get a lot of free time.

Isn't this just an illusion crafted by the system? You only have a certain amount of time in your one life. College doesn't increase life expectancy, it just delays you from entering the workforce. Which I would argue takes time away from you.

Now you have less time and experience in the workforce (because college takes years) to pay off more debt (because of student loans.)

College gives you free time now but what's the long-term cost? Do you get more time later?

 

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[lewj24]

Tons of benefits:

Most college courses are relatively easy (google the answers).

If you are on campus you get all you can eat buffet for a meal plan.

Bunch of fun groups you can join and athletic activities.

Most colleges have a gym on campus.

Tons of partying/hanging out with other people your age. A lot of fun and goofing off.

You then get a degree that proves your "smarts." Very helpful if you want a career as a teacher/lawyer/doctor etc.

Other than that I've got nothing. You can learn more by yourself. You can literally google anything. And if you're super serious you can actually buy the actual college textbooks that the classes are run from. Pay a hundred bucks or less for an older edition text book and you will learn too much. And no need to go into a ton of debt and waste years of life.

Maybe you can say the professors are a great resource but that hasn't been my experience. Whenever I asked them a real life question they would blow it off and say, "That's covered in a different class." Maybe I had bad professors, maybe not.

 

[Nannan]

One thing I liked about college was the extra time I got. Compared to a 9 - 5 job, you have a lot of free time in between classes and outside. My schedule was typically 2 classes a day, each 1 - 2 hours. Sometimes we got Friday off.

If you have the extra time, use it to better yourself or perhaps even start a business with friends. And by all means fail at trying. I mean it in the absolute positive way. I have failed tons of time in grad school trying accomplish crazy things and used the "I'm still in school" as a get out of jail card.

Example: I tried working with a few friends on their startup and we failed. If this was my job and I got laid off, I need to go find another way to support myself or worse, for the people I live with. No need, I was in school, I learned my lessons, moved on and continued with my studies.

If I had a time machine for college, I would have used all the extra time to learn about starting a business, getting real life experience, perhaps through joining a club that interacted a lot with the real world.

Hope I was able to answer your question

 

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[Aim_Goal]

Tons of benefits:

Most college courses are relatively easy (google the answers).

If you are on campus you get all you can eat buffet for a meal plan.

Bunch of fun groups you can join and athletic activities.

Most colleges have a gym on campus.

Tons of partying/hanging out with other people your age. A lot of fun and goofing off.

You then get a degree that proves your "smarts." Very helpful if you want a career as a teacher/lawyer/doctor etc.

Other than that I've got nothing. You can learn more by yourself. You can literally google anything. And if you're super serious you can actually buy the actual college textbooks that the classes are run from. Pay a hundred bucks or less for an older edition text book and you will learn too much. And no need to go into a ton of debt and waste years of life.

Maybe you can say the professors are a great resource but that hasn't been my experience. Whenever I asked them a real life question they would blow it off and say, "That's covered in a different class." Maybe I had bad professors, maybe not.

I'm in my final semester of my Bachelors of Psychology.
As I live, during conversations and while I think about things that happen, little bits of what I learned come back to mind and help add insight to the situation.
I've learned how to write.
I've learned critical thinking and skepticism.
I've learned how to research.
I've gotten opportunities to practice public speaking.

That said, I've read a lot of books in my private time unrelated to the curriculum which have all provided the same benefits I listed above, and I've learned far more from my own reading that the Psych curriculum.

There are 2 Professors from all the professors I studied with that inspired me and helped me develop myself. One helped me intellectually in critical thinking and the other in research and entrepreneurship. I wouldn't take what I learned from with granted but it was because of them as people with their personal experiences that learned from them by interacting with them alot during office hours but They are only 2 of at least a dozen others whom I barely feel I learned from them which is very inefficient. If possible I would love to meet people who I could learn from them outside college.

In terms of prestige, I think it is an opportunity opener but I don't think I should rush it right now for the degree until I reach a point (hopefully within 3 years) where I could sustain myself and college without the need of loans and much interference from whatever is helping sustain myself (business).

I thing that bothers me these days is whenever I mention pausing or stopping college everybody jumps on you and how education is important. OFCOURSE education but many people seem to connect college and education as if they were the same thing.

 

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[Maxboost]

I got scammed with a useless business degree. My advice would be to kids nowadays is, "IF you know what your job title will be after University, GO TO SCHOOL". That should eliminate 95% of the useless college degrees out there. So if you want to be a lawyer, teacher, doctor, etc.. you have to go to school.

Before you decide what you want to do until you reach 65 years of age, ask companies to job shadow for a 1 WEEK straight. So you want to be an accountant? Follow that person around for 1 week straight and see if data entry, useless meetings, late hours and admin work is what you want to do for the rest of your life.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I notice that the anti-college sentiment tends to be pretty strong around here...while I have no issue with that, I'll always make a point to play devil's advocate on this topic.

That's because you're an outlier.

Not everyone gets to go to Stanford and study subjects that have practical applications in real life, while simultaneously getting to hob-nob with the best of Silicon Valley.

The anti-college sentiment here is because it is insane to accumulate $150,000 in debt for a philosophy degree from liberal arts college that no employer gives a shit about.

You can't argue college while selectively omitting its cost/benefit relative to the study and institution -- if the baseline for "college" was getting a computer science or an engineering degree from Stanford (even at a reasonable cost), then yea, you'd hear me screaming for college too.

Just because Bill Gates dropped out of college doesn't mean it's the right decision to drop out (yea, he went to Harvard!) Just because you got extreme value from college doesn't mean it's the right decision (yea, you went to Stanford!)

The parallels are the same.

One size never fits all.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Again, perhaps I'm misinterpreting your comment

You are.

I think when you read "outlier" you flipped and didn't read anything else I wrote.

but it sounded to me like you were implying that I was either lucky or somehow had a competitive advantage over most people who would try to achieve what I did.

Not at all, you should know better.

You got into Stanford and excelled in a competitive degree field.

Luck had nothing to do with it.

It shows you have an outlier aptitude (or at least 1 standard deviation above) for intelligence, hard work, focus, determination, and whole host of other attributes required to make that happen. (And if you paid your own way [or on scholarship] that adds more big feathers in your cap.)

It's like the NBA -- you got to be pretty damn good to just get into the league, much less excel there.

Like wise, Bill Gates got into Harvard -- he had to premise the same things.

For one to say "I should drop out of college because Bill Gates did" is the same logical argument because they're dismissing the quality of your process before you even walked on campus.

I'd argue you would have succeeded either way -- going to Stanford, a JUCO, or staying home and self-teaching.

Had I gotten into Stanford (sorry I was too dumb) I probably would be preaching from the rafters too, "GO TO COLLEGE!"

But for most people, it isn't a choice between an engineering degree at Stanford or staying home...

It's a choice between a Poly Sci degree at Bowling Green (complete with $150K in debt) or staying home.

Hope this clarifies.

 

[lewj24]

21 hours in college per week < 42 hours at work

This is getting into the go to college or don't go to college debate but I will try to keep my response on thread topic.

You say 21 hours in college is better than 42 at work. How so?

What are the benefits of the 21 hours in college? (Read through this thread) and what are the negatives? (costs tons of money and time)

What are the benefits of 42 hours at work? (Gaining experience and getting paid) and what are the negatives? (potentially soul sucking and takes time)

You can go to college and get a bunch of free time and credentials while paying thousands of dollars that cannot be bankrupted away.

Or

You can work a normal job for 4 years, gain experience and money.

In the college scenario you get short term benefits, some credentials, and $50k in debt.

In the working scenario lets say you work a $10 per hour job full time. You have earned $80,000 over 4 years and gained real world experience.

And you say you would have been kicked out at 18 and have to fend for yourself if you didn't go to college. Wouldn't you rather be kicked out at 18 with no debt and more time than being kicked out at 22 with $50k in debt and 6 months until you have to start making payments?

 

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[SteveO]

I also forgot to add if you go to college everyone thinks you are god.

"Oh my son got his bachelors degree at ISU!"

"I graduated with an MBA summa cum laude."

"My grandson is becoming a doctor!"

"My buddy is becoming a pharmacist."

"Did you hear so and so got engaged to a future lawyer?"

"I have my Phd. Please, call me Dr. Joe Blow."

"My daughter got a full ride to play softball."

Status is a big deal.

Hahaha... My parents got to say "My son almost made it through 10th grade!" My dad said that he was very worried about me in early adulthood.

 

[GoGetter24]

I will say that I think a lot of people justify college due to the hazing / Stockholm syndrome / sunk-cost-denial effect. Most (65.9%) of people go through college nowadays, so you have a much larger percentage of the population who are prepped to defend it. Otherwise they'd have to swallow the fact they've massively overpaid for something: nope - they'd rather defend it than swallow that.

And worse: they can't escape it through bankruptcy, effectively re-instituting the debtors prison. I've heard of people with north of $100k debt, one guy even said his was $450k (dentistry), and it was bearing solid interest rates. Everyone had convinced him it was the right thing to do. And people will even defend that kind of price. It's a monstrous situation. And I think a lot more people need to stand up, stop defending it, and have the courage to say "I got suckered, I was hurt, and I'm still hurting".

But the problem with the binary college vs no college debate is that it misses the point entirely. The question is not what the value of some arbitrary institution of education / networking / credentialing is. The real questions are is "what is the best form of education" (and how much, how long, etc); "what is the best form of networking"; "what is the best system for credentialing"; and most importantly "what are the fair prices and expected returns for these things?".

Rather than instead starting with the position "defend university", and then start saying "connections blah blah", without comparison to other options, or saying absurd things like free time as a benefit, deliberately ignoring the fact that simply not going to university gives you that.

----------

So, if I could submit my concept of how the "education system" (which is really a combination of things including non-education) should be changed.

Separation of the components: education, life advice, credentials, socializing. These are not related things, there are massive conflicts of interest and waste that arise when they are combined.

Education for leisure is for the rich (back in the days of "A gentleman need not know Latin, but he should at least have forgotten it."). Not a way to get rich. Not a way to avoid financial suffering. Therefore it must be tied to return on investment.

This implies that it must be specific, limited, fragmented, and priced to that purpose. A student should never leave the education center thinking "I'm never going to use most of what I've had to learn". They should have learned only what they're going to use. And if they discover they need something else -- they go back for that module. Which they finish at their pace. Doesn't take a genius to see that's a better system. This implies a bunch of other things. The fixed K-12 system must go. The fixed 3 year law course or 4 year engineering degree must go, and be replaced with fragmentation. Maybe you need 4 years worth, maybe you only need 1 years worth of a specific sub field. It should depend on you and your specific goals.

Credentials should not be anything to do with the education companies. There should be no exams set by an education company, and any education company that sets its own exams should be laughed at like a restaurant that wants to set its own health inspection. Credential companies would sit between the real world, and the education industry. The real world (businesses) would specify what they need tests to screen for, and credentials companies would make tests for those. Companies would then simply look at those tests, and hire on the numbers, possibly even without interviews. Students would therefore find a education company that can educate them to score well on those tests. And everything is massively, efficiently aligned.

This separation would immediately create innovation. The exam period would drop from quarterly (or greater) to monthly or less. Leaving course study to the last minute would disappear -- pointless in a system where you can take the exam whenever you're ready. Want to be a qualified engineer in 1 year instead of 4? Up to you. It would also remove artificial year levels, which have nothing to do with real life (no one works in a company where everyone is the same age as them). And a whole bunch of other things would change, including course-level competition instead of university-level competition.

Socialization is massively removed from education. Schools claim to be socialization centered, but are useless at it. They're good at books & lectures, that's it. Which is why they do no testing of social ability, give no lessons on social skills, do nothing to check socialization development is proceeding smoothly (e.g. bullying and bad influences are reactively fixed rather than proactively avoided), and are at constant loggerheads with certain groups of their customers who actually just want to socialize (giving out detentions, them interfering with the class, etc).

Therefore this needs to be separated out. People living on a campus for 3 years so they can share STDs with each other is nothing to do with education. Partying can be done elsewhere for much cheaper. All of the clubs and societies of a university can be stripped out and be done separately. Networking can be done and paid for separately, competitively, and with more filtered and higher value offerings.

Life advice would also be separate. Going to university to "find yourself" is proven nonsense. Schools and universities do zero screening on "who you are". They do nothing to test and tease out what your innate strengths, passions, aptitudes, are and align it with what society needs (and therefore will have high payoff for you).

There would be separate advisories who would specialize in this. They would do personal testing, and they would give out advice on possible mixtures of the above parts, and sub-components (e.g. specific schools, credentialers), that the person could take. They would constantly be analyzing career markets and doing future modeling and risk analysis in that area.

Gentlemen, this entire thing could be revolutionized.

So why isn't it like this? Why are kids just lumped into monolithic regimented systems, that don't fit their best interests?

One thing this is not, is a political issue. It has nothing to do with politicians, anymore than what I'm going to eat for dinner has anything to do with politicians. Politicians interest in the education system only goes as far as their desire for power -- that's why they become politicians.

This comes down to the parents. It is because of them, and them alone, that the system is as broken as it is. They all have the ability to vote with their wallets and their time. And they do. And this dysfunctional system is the result. If they actually cared about the development of their kids, they wouldn't all default to putting them in a school as their sole responsibility. No, that's not their responsibility. Their responsibility is to play their role in their kids reaching their full potentials. And abdicating it with the minimum effort, of putting them in a school, and occasionally looking at a report card and having a parent-teacher interview, is the root cause of why their kids go on to the university & debtors prison.

 

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[Kak]

If we are talking purely benefits... irregardless of overall value...

-There is a bit of a polish sometimes to many people that have completed college. Not that it can’t be developed outside of college.

-You will be taken seriously by people who give a shit about college... and I know you might say you shouldn’t care what other people think. Right or not, sometimes this matters in leading.

-Alumni associations and potential preferred networking.

-Obviously some learning will be done. I’d say economics, business law, public speaking were things that I learned in college. Not that these can’t be learned outside of college.

I’m really grasping at straws. College is a very expensive way to learn way less than experiences. It isn’t a very good value, but it is an option for some. I define education very literally, possessing knowledge and wisdom.

 

[Aim_Goal]

I have 4 college degrees, including my Juris Doctor degree (I went to law school). I haven't used any of those degrees the way that the universities thought I should. BUT, I use the information and skills I learned every day of my life. And I proved that I don't quit!

That being said, I'm not sure I would go get those degrees today. They don't have the same weight as they once had. With the advent of the internet, Kindle and INDY books, I can get any information that need on demand. I am continuing my education everyday.
During the last month, I have learned Word Press. I have built a new web site. This week I'll be emailing out about my new business and real estate blog -- no, I'm not selling anything -- just presenting ideas and information...
Welcome to Wenda's Business Blog - WJK Business Buzz Blog
I know that building a web site is no big deal for some of you young pups, but it's been a big stretch for an old dog like me. If I wasn't always educating myself, I wouldn't have been able to learn Word Press and keep on trying. Not only that, I'm getting to use my writing skills and add my silly artwork.

Hello @WJK, I went and took a glance at your website and "about" page. I must say that I felt a bit inspired. Correct me if I'm wrong but I see that your many experiences you have they seem to have the ability empower your core focuses (Real estate, also correct me if I'm wrong) even if they are not directly connected to them (such as your education in Law). I may have had the thought process of only focusing on a core subcategory in terms of education or education in categories without consideration of usefulness to empower other skills. But, thinking more about it I really should be thinking of also building/educating myself in other areas that could also empower my core set of skills/abilities.

 

[Nannan]

I honestly find it hard to do that. I've tried to create 2 businesses online so far(a year and a year +half ago). They of course failed early on because both times the person I am with would stop caring while I try do the heavy lifting. They always went on unfinished because I also found it hard to manage the time. I was always the one to try start something but unfortunately I could not find someone who has similar goals as mine or serious at trying to start-up something I want. although to be quite honest they were ideas that I kind kind-of look down on after reading TFM. I'm also a person who has a real short focus span so it takes me much longer to do anything (like studying) but recently I've been trying to improve that with some techniques and practice.

I still think I should do college. But after I've reached a point where I could sustain myself and pay for college without taking loans. I already have loans and things I need to pay when I'm still young and dug myself in a whole because of bad habits and also shifting my focus on multiple things and ending up not doing anything at all.

I definitely understand that feeling of you do all the heavy lifting and the other person does not care. I've been through that. Heck I went through with that last year from May till January and he owns majority shares lol.

But the point is you learn from your failures, and even accomplishments, now while you're in this nice bubble called school, even if you have to take a loan. You pointed out all those problems while you are still in college. Imagine identifying these problems when you're out of college and need to support yourself.

I'm pretty sure you have a lot of positive takeaways and rude awakenings from the 2 online businesses. Trust me, they pay off in the long run. I went through almost 1 year of startup hell while in college and later in grad school and ended up leaving because literally everything sucked. The takeaways, I ended up standing up for myself, programming efficiently, debugging code efficiently and gaining people skill to name a few.

Bottom line is the benefits are still the extra time you have in college as opposed to being in the workforce and the "I'm in college card". Use the extra time to better yourself, you'll be surprised how much you will grow in such a small amount of time.

 

[Kennypaul]

I think one of the benefits of college is the free time that you get after classes and lectures to work and educate yourself.
I've found out that sometimes,being around people(even people that might not share your goals) is a big inspiration to even work harder on yourself and your goals.

 

[mike24601]

My advice to anyone seeking formal college education is to do it Cheap/Free, and Fast (3 years or less). I earned my college money via the military route, and went from a D/F student in high school to graduating at the top of my college class with zero student loan debt in less than three years. That was a seriously liberating and life affirming experience. I don't think I gained more IQ points from having gone to school but I certainly learned to organize and elucidate my thoughts. I wouldn't trade the experiences I had for $1 million. That said, some people really DO trade experiences/feels for upwards of 200, 300, or 400k in tuition and many lost years vacillating from one major to the next...and that's simply unconscionable unless you will end up with an M.D. after your name from a top 10 school.

 

[Deleted52409]

I'm a minimalist. The day will eventually come that I will move out on my own. I'll eat ramen noodles and sleep on a futon in a dirty studio apartment without air conditioning if necessary. I've done the math and If I only made $30k a year working a blue collar job/sales job while pursuing the fastlane, I would be doing fine on my own living in the Midwest.

Quite frankly I would rather be on the sidewalk after failing 10 times than to be on the slowlane. For other guys maybe that's not optimal but for me a computer science $50k starting salary is way too comfortable for my tastes. I need to put it all out on the line if I want to make it.

It's different for everyone but for me personally a decent safety net would be a dream killer and that's a big reason why I'm not going.

 

[Jonathan1]

There are 2 Professors from all the professors I studied with that inspired me and helped me develop myself. One helped me intellectually in critical thinking and the other in research and entrepreneurship. I wouldn't take what I learned from with granted but it was because of them as people with their personal experiences that learned from them by interacting with them alot during office hours but They are only 2 of at least a dozen others whom I barely feel I learned from them which is very inefficient. If possible I would love to meet people who I could learn from them outside college.

In terms of prestige, I think it is an opportunity opener but I don't think I should rush it right now for the degree until I reach a point (hopefully within 3 years) where I could sustain myself and college without the need of loans and much interference from whatever is helping sustain myself (business).

I thing that bothers me these days is whenever I mention pausing or stopping college everybody jumps on you and how education is important. OFCOURSE education but many people seem to connect college and education as if they were the same thing.

On your last point, agreed. I use my vocabulary a little differently tho. I distinguish education from learning. Education is what you get in school, credentials etc. Learning is the knowledge and skills you gain and add to your personal value, which may be as a result of formal education or otherwise (private self directed learning). The latter is far more important in my opinion, since the more you specialize in education, the more you learn about less.

 

[Fastlane Liam]

You learn social skills, uh

Apart from that you're paying for the piece of paper to prove your obedience

 

[WinTheDay]

You get to meet really cool people from all walks of life.

Immense opportunities offered to you just because you are a college student.
- A few of my early on business deals came because I told them I was a college student and they liked the fact that I was in school and working on that business. One guy was even a graduate from the same University if it wasn't for that connect he would have never responded to my email, we ended up not being a good fit for business together but you get the idea.

For some reason society cuts you a lot of slack while you are in college, you have to experience it to understand what I mean. Just in day to day interactions bring up you're a student or wear you college gear.

Study abroad..I'm finally taking advantage of this next month. Incredibly easy way to travel to outside the country and experience life while earning credits.

Classes are easy and free time is evident, even people I know who has tons of credit hours still have plenty of free time. Hopefully your University has a top notch rec center, great workouts and swimming pool, rock climb, basketball..etc.

Fun and partying, man..do I have stories haha...

College has a lot of benefits, sad part is the biggest benefits available most people don't even use.

Learn a language, join a club, start a club...if done right college can be a huge benefit.
But in my opinion for 4 years anything over 15k debt not worth it. F*ck that. Avoid student loans in general but yeah I know all can't. Personally if you have a business that is producing atleast 3.5k/month consistently. I would just dropout.

This is all under the assumption that you go to a relatively decent sized school.
I can't comment on very small places like community college, no experience.

 

[WJK]

Hello @WJK, I went and took a glance at your website and "about" page. I must say that I felt a bit inspired. Correct me if I'm wrong but I see that your many experiences you have they seem to have the ability empower your core focuses (Real estate, also correct me if I'm wrong) even if they are not directly connected to them (such as your education in Law). I may have had the thought process of only focusing on a core subcategory in terms of education or education in categories without consideration of usefulness to empower other skills. But, thinking more about it I really should be thinking of also building/educating myself in other areas that could also empower my core set of skills/abilities.

Hi Aim_Goal. I once had a wise man tell me, "It your education. You can do anything with it that you want." He was right. I've been able to craft my life in ways that my educators never dreamed.

The other part of it is that I have learned to say no. People tell me that I HAVE to do things that I'm good at, and in areas where I have my education. That's not true. I can do whatever I want, when I want, and the way I want. As long as I don't hurt someone else, and I take care of myself and mine -- my education and my success jointly have given me my freedom.

 

[mike24601]

I got scammed with a useless business degree. My advice would be to kids nowadays is, "IF you know what your job title will be after University, GO TO SCHOOL". That should eliminate 95% of the useless college degrees out there. So if you want to be a lawyer, teacher, doctor, etc.. you have to go to school.

Before you decide what you want to do until you reach 65 years of age, ask companies to job shadow for a 1 WEEK straight. So you want to be an accountant? Follow that person around for 1 week straight and see if data entry, useless meetings, late hours and admin work is what you want to do for the rest of your life.

I'd add one caveat to this. Law school is probably the biggest scam in the post-grad education arena. JD's are a dime a dozen out there now and the workforce is in a massive, soul crushing glut. If you go to law school today you are more likely than not heading down a path towards despair, unless you are hopelessly infatuated with being a lawyer and are well aware that your life will probably be filled with mind numbing tasks that are nothing like what is depicted on Law & Order. Due diligence is paramount!

 

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[WJK]

Before College I liked computers. No... I loved computers. I would spend hours with Python and Blender. Just making silly games and doing architectural design. Long story short I went to college to be a programmer. Really can't stand computers now but they are part of the modern age and aren't going anywhere.
I killed my love by wanting it to be a career and earned 5 figures in debt. After college couldn't find a job anyway, one that paid that is. Got offered a couple of internships and turned them down. Figured out everyone wants to be a programmer and even if I did find a job they don't pay the $200,000 a year right off the bat like I was told in college. I fell for college, thought it would be my ticket out of poverty. Really wish I could go back in time.
I have learned more from self education since getting out of college and it isn't stressful teaching myself new skills. No-one to breathe down my neck and no-one to subtract points from my grade for a little screw up. Just me being accountable for me.
You grow more educating yourself anyhow.
College may work for some but not all.
I would rather spend $10 on a book that I can take my time with and keep instead of $5,000 for a semester of someone rushing me to get this done!
Just my experience.

You sound unhappy and jaded. Your ticket out of poverty is working smart and applying yourself. -- just as it has always been.
Welcome to Wenda's Business Blog - WJK Business Buzz Blog

 

[Aim_Goal]

I got out of poverty already. Not rich but not poor. That is just what I thought college was when I first started.
You are correct, I should have a better attitude. I'm sorry you had to deal with my negativity. Plus the OP asked for benefits and I fire back with being negative. I apologize to the OP as well. I re-read what I said and did not realize how negative and un-helpful I was being. That's not right. Thank you for correcting me and I will be more aware of my words in the future.

We all have topics that we would flip on without knowing because of struggle related to a topic, so I feel you. But I'm rather amazed of how sincere the apology you made was even when you were not really offending anyone + this is the Internet where nobody would care, just shows the amount of development you've had as a person as well as character at such an age. Pherhaps you could give me some advice since we're a bit close in age and you might relate more; I have a have this issue of laziness, and need to develop self-decipline, I must develope myself to where I could make use of most of my time in a day but I end up wasting most of it due to distractions and laziness. I might have circumstances that could or could have affected me mentaly but I'm sure people have went through worst and came through, yet I still feel held back by whatever it is on my mind to worry about to the point where it makes me lazy.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

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[• nikita •]

The experience? I wouldn’t pay thousands a year for an experience though.

Delaying independence another 4 years? Making your parents not hate you?

Lol okay in all seriousness, the only benefit would be if you needed a degree to work in a field that NEEDS one and if that career is 100% your passion and life mission.

 

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[Real Deal Denver]

Well, THIS thread certainly blew me away. What GREAT insight here!

I know that building a web site is no big deal for some of you young pups, but it's been a big stretch for an old dog like me.

NEVER apologize, and NEVER let them see you sweat. You have FOUR degrees Wenda. You, of all people, KNOW you can find the answers to any questions you may have. I greatly respect people with a lot of experience - so please, don't sell yourself short in any way!

If I had a time machine for college, I would have used all the extra time to learn about starting a business, getting real life experience, perhaps through joining a club that interacted a lot with the real world.

Other than that I've got nothing. You can learn more by yourself. You can literally google anything. And if you're super serious you can actually buy the actual college textbooks that the classes are run from. Pay a hundred bucks or less for an older edition text book and you will learn too much. And no need to go into a ton of debt and waste years of life.

THANK YOU for this! My mantra through life, and it has served me well!

That said, I've read a lot of books in my private time unrelated to the curriculum which have all provided the same benefits I listed above, and I've learned far more from my own reading that the Psych curriculum.

Again - you learn, or if you are really smart, you learn HOW to learn.

but many people seem to connect college and education as if they were the same thing.

I'm going to be using THIS quite a bit. What a load of wisdom in so few words!

I distinguish education from learning. Education is what you get in school, credentials etc. Learning is the knowledge and skills you gain and add to your personal value, which may be as a result of formal education or otherwise (private self directed learning). The latter is far more important in my opinion, since the more you specialize in education, the more you learn about less.

Could not have said it better. Kudos for stating the truth so well.

Apart from that you're paying for the piece of paper to prove your obedience

Been there - done that. I can't believe I competed in that arena - butt kissing to get myself one notch above someone else. Now, I have real knowledge. Needless to say, I've far surpassed being in that waste of time environment.

You only have a certain amount of time in your one life. College doesn't increase life expectancy, it just delays you from entering the workforce. Which I would argue takes time away from you.

Ka bam! This is nuclear!

Personally if you have a business that is producing atleast 3.5k/month consistently. I would just dropout.

What makes you and Michael Dell, and Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, and Bill Gates, and Larry Ellison, and Mark Zuckerberg think you're so smart? These "under-achievers" never even finished college.

Not to mention the sluff-offs that didn't even finish High School, such as; Dave Thomas and George Eastman and Jimmy Dean and John D Rockefeller Sr. and Kirk Kerkorian (billionaire investor, owner of Mandalay Bay and Mirage Resorts, and MGM movie studio) and one of my favorites - Milton Hershey, founder of Hershey's Chocolate; 4th grade education. Ray Kroc, founder of McDonald’s, and Richard Branson, billionaire founder of Virgin Records, Virgin Atlantic Airways, Virgin Mobile, and more; dropped out of high school at 16. We all know Simon Cowell, TV producer, music judge, American Idol, The X Factor, and Britain’s Got Talent. Yep - another High school dropout. Wolfgang Puck - chef, owner of 16 restaurants and 80 bistros; quit school at the age of 14. And, the man that made the happiest place on Earth - beloved Walt Disney; founder of the Walt Disney Company. Dropped out of high school at 16.

I guess education can be highly overrated. Or maybe all these slobs just got lucky? Uh, no. These slobs are my HEROES! I can't imagine what the world would be like if these titans of business had finished a degree and taken a mundane job in some corporate setting - to only drift through life. Instead - look at the legacies they have created. Un. Flippin. Believable!

In the working scenario lets say you work a $10 per hour job full time. You have earned $80,000 over 4 years and gained real world experience.

Imagine what it would have been like to work with Steve Jobs (et al.) for four years. Or for even four months? What kind of person would you be today? I can only imagine.

 

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[Real Deal Denver]

Keep in mind that Gates and Zuckerberg were smart enough -- and worked hard enough -- to get into Harvard (and start successful businesses there).

Dell was smart enough to take a high school equivalency exam at age eight.

Woz was designing computers in high-school, before personal computers even existed.

Ellison left Illinois Urbana-Champaign (a highly regarded engineering school) because his mother died.

And Steve Jobs continued taking college courses after dropping out.

For the .01% of people with the level of intellect and self-motivation that these guys had, it's probably safe to say that college isn't necessary for success.



I've been part of several meetings with Bill Gates (I've even played poker with him) and once sat in a 16 hour strategy meeting with Steve Ballmer (that was a short one for him). And I spent years working closely with guys who reported to both of them, including one of my mentors.

It wouldn't have been possible (well, much, much less probable) without college...

I'm certainly not saying that college is necessary... I'm just pointing out that for every benefit you can point out of not going, there's likely a benefit someone else can point out for going.

I notice that the anti-college sentiment tends to be pretty strong around here...while I have no issue with that, I'll always make a point to play devil's advocate on this topic.

WOW. YOU have a book in you that's dying to get out. GREAT stories.

What great adventures you must have been a part of. You are in the 1% of the 1%.

But - I am a sponge for knowledge, and I have to say that College sucked the life out of me. Way too slow. They sell it by the hour. Some of us just don't want to sit through the whole damn thing - let's get to the finale! I tend to read a book in a week or two - not for a whole damn semester. So on I go - without the college credits for what I've learned. Don't care. And, I'm in good company ~

When - if ever - we learn to allow people to accelerate at their own speed, AND not saddle them with all the crap courses that they'll never EVER use - then we might once again be a contender on the world stage for being a true world leader in technology and innovation. Right now, college is more like one long a$$ board meeting after another. Been there. You won't every be able to do 20 hours worth of work in 10 hours. You're going to fulfill those full 20 hours. God forbid academia might move at the speed of business. College "is" a business, and that's why they package and parcel it out the way they do. Dollars for diplomas. Some, as you've seen in my earlier post, chose to not play the game that way.

 

[Real Deal Denver]

I completely agree. And I think -- for this very reason, among others -- trade schools will become popular again in the coming years.

You are right.

I also hope that colleges would streamline their courses to be much more focused and direct, like trade schools are. But I can hope all I want. I don't think that will ever happen. It's a culture. Get a degree - get a good job. Or, so they say (I know a few master degree people that can't get a job, and it's been a long long time that they've been searching).

And, I dare say, that college might even lose its appeal, as degrees are so commonplace. I see a lot of people diving into a niche business and doing very well at it. Corporate jobs don't have the allure they once had. People are replaceable - there is no loyalty, and very little promotion - the most meaningful promotion is by jumping ship and moving to a different company. I had a corporate job, and although it taught me a lot and matured me, I am glad it's in my past. But I do use lessons I learned there, every day. I will say that I learned the systems they use, which were very effective.

I have a book shipment coming in today from Amazon. It's like being a kid again at Christmas time! In the next 3-4 weeks, I expect to be immersed, and knowledgeable, about eCommerce, among with one or two other topics. What I will learn now, would take me the better part of a year if I signed up for college courses - and their content would not be nearly as updated as the information that I am getting.

PS - when you write YOUR book on what you've learned from your journeys, I will be first in line to buy it.

 

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